What's your opinion on this movie's use of black face? I'm sort of on the fence if it was racist or not, so I'd rather want to hear a person's thoughts on the group from people that they were actually satirizing.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
Finally a fresh and unexplored topic on this board!!! It's about time!!!
shareI don't think this has been directly asked to black people. Also honestly I think this offends me, so I can't just let it go.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
It has, literally millions of times.
You need to make sure it offends black people before you can fully express your offense? You people...
Well I don't believe we can move on as a society, if we keep on bringing back the pains of our past (minstrel shows).
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
what offended me was- the real blk guy played the buffoon, while the intelligent "blk guy" wasn't really blk at all.
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1+1=3
How was Alpa playing a fool? He acted like an idiot, but he wasn't really an idiot. He was just acting like your typical hiphop star.
Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
I tell you what offends me. As an Italian, Mario and Luigi from Nintendo. What, are all Italians brick layers and pizza makers? And I can't of a single Italian with a big bushy mustache.
I'm not black. But if this offends you black or not, you are a complete moron. "blackface" is completely different than this. This is just Robert Downey Jr. playing a black character but not in an offensive way. Blackface was where a white person would wear black makeup and put down black people. Plus it is clearly supposed to be a white character(australian guy) who had surgery and became a black guy in the movie(a comedy I might add.) So that's the perspective you should be looking at it as. Even in the movie it's a white guy behind the makeup, it's not RDJ just playing a black guy, he's playing a white guy made up to be a black guy. And they basically make a bunch of jokes about a white guy pretending to be black, that's the comedy of it all. Like when he says, "what do you mean YOU PEOPLE?" It's hilarious because he isn't even black. And then the real black guy says to him, "what do YOU mean YOU PEOPLE?"
Oh, and the reason why I keep saying he is Australian isn't to try and ignore the fact that he is in "blackface(as you love to continue to point out,)" but to say that even if in your opinion(which is really what it comes down too) he makes black people look bad, he is ultimately still an australian guy. He's not actually a black guy in the movie just because he looks like one. So if he says something that you consider stupid(and thus offensive,) it's still an australian guy saying something stupid, not a black guy. Maybe your attention span is so short you are incapable of seeing that. Read a book you f'ing re***d, maybe your attention span will increase. Here's an example, just because Michael Jackson's skin became white, he is still considered a "black guy." He didn't all the sudden become "Caucasian" just because his skin became lighter. BTW, RDJ did play a pretty good black guy you have to admit. He was just like the others in the movie, and they acted like 90% of every other black guy that is famous, this isn't me being racist, this is me just speaking a fact.
Firstly, the fact that he was playing an Australian, I find offensive. I am Australian, so it made us out to be buffoons.
Secondly, there was an incident in Australia one time that America condemned. On a show called "Hey, Hey, It's Saturday" there was a talent quest, where five guys dressed as the Jackson Five. Four of them "blackfaced" while the one playing Michael was "lighter". Anyway, guest judge Harry Connick Jr carried on and acted like he was offended (like he knows anything about black oppression, so I think he was more carrying on to appease his fanbase). It made news in the U.S., and Americans condemned us as "racist".
Firstly, how was this offensive? Michael Jackson's brothers are actually black, so how else were they meant to portray them accurately? Unless they searched the streets for five dark coloured guys, it wouldn't be an accurate portrayal. Secondly, they were singing a Jackson Five hit, so they weren't mocking blacks. The comedy was that the guy playing Michael was "whiteface" to show how his color has changed. Yet it caused offence to some visiting singer who comes from the South, where they burn crosses.
Also, the Americans said that this proves Australians are racist, and look how they treat their indigenous people, the Aborigines. They then tried to show how "progressive" the U.S. is, and how they accept blacks. Except that, the U.S.A.'s indigenous people aren't the African-American, but the Red Indian. America's treatment of the Red Indian is pretty bad, so they need to look in their own backyard first.
I think it is because Robert Downey jr is popular with people, and everyone admires that he got off drugs, means that they turn a blind eye to his cariciture.
BTW, I'm not saying that this role should be condemned. But neither should others who do a similar thing. People need to grow a sense of humor.
Nice satire.
sharehe was not in black face to play a black man..not like Don Cheadle or Ving Rhames were cheated out of a role here.
...RD Jr's chracter was an intense Aussie Actor (think Russle Crowe) that would do anything to get into character...hence, surgey and mediicne to give him black features...it was apart of the whole storyline...
Anyone who does not get the storyline is a failure at watching, understanding and enjoying a movie
This is what I don't like, people who try to reason blackface. He was in blackface! Point blank.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
His character was in blackface. Do you realize how stupid it would be if they had had a black actor play a white actor who plays a black character? The entire point would utterly have been lost, it would be like remaking Some Like it Hot with actual women in the Curtis/Lemon roles.
There's no more room in hell, that's why the hipsters are walking the earth.
I think it would have been actually possible to do that. Alot of people also thought John Travolta in a fat suit and as a woman would be impossible to do.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
That's because that role in Hairspray is traditionally played by a man.
There's no more room in hell, that's why the hipsters are walking the earth.
I refer to Divine as a woman.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
Divine did not identify as transgender, according to most sources. It was just a stage thing.
There's no more room in hell, that's why the hipsters are walking the earth.
Because back then it wasn't as a common thing, and definitely not accepted to be transgender. So I'm sure in a way she was just staying safe from homophobic people.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
Just going with what John Waters himself had to say. Regardless of who originated the role, it's still a role portrayed by male actors in subsequent adaptations.
Point stands, Tropic Thunder's entire point would have been mitigated if they went that route.
Tell me, what do you think of actual blackface performances? Clearly you hate parodies of them, so very obviously you must enjoy real ones. Al Jolson your great grandpa or something?
There's no more room in hell, that's why the hipsters are walking the earth.
Blackface should never be done, so I'm also calling out Spike Lee.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
So do you think no one should ever make films set in WW2 because that would mean someone would have to do a nazi salute if they played a nazi? Same logic.
There's no more room in hell, that's why the hipsters are walking the earth.
That's not the same thing. Something that would be sort of the same with Jewish people, is if an actor got a bigger nose put on them to look Jewish. Alot of people would be outraged by that.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
your are grasping at straws here...in the context of the plot they were saterizing the method actor. Dustin Hoffman ran marathons before filming Marathon Man. Kirt in Tropic Thunder, is an aussie who is an extreme method actor. If you want to get mad get mad at Tom Cruise's charater for producing the movie where a FICTIONAL white man takes a FICTIONAL black man's part.
"For there's a man inside me. And only when he is out...can I walk free of pain"-Tobias Funke
But why is it happening alot lately that people sneak in, what a majority people feel is rascist? Such as when the republican candidates signed the pledge saying that black people were better off as slaves. Here the ladies in the view go into this more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jhfJFp7ttw
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
So, white face is acceptable? Like White Chicks?? Such ridiculous hypocrisy gets old.
share"This is what I don't like, people who try to reason blackface. He was in blackface! Point blank. "
Your such a troll it's ridiculous. Either that or one of the dumbest people in the world. Don't bother trying to incite any further posts from me with more of your nonsense I won't be looking at this topic again...
Good because nobody even invited you here, so go be rude somewhere else.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
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No different than the movie "white chicks" if you think about it. Although we don't have a history of black people putting on "white face" and then putting down white people. But it's all about context. The context is that he is an Aussie "pretending" to be black in the movie. And you are a complete re***d when you say, "He was in blackface! Point blank." Ok, so what? The intentions(context) is much different from the past when they put on "blackface." You need to stop smoking that meth kid. Your braincells are fried.
shareNo different than the movie "white chicks" if you think about it. Although we don't have a history of black people putting on "white face" and then putting down white people. But it's all about context. The context is that he is an Aussie "pretending" to be black in the movie. And you are a complete re***d when you say, "He was in blackface! Point blank."
the group from people that they were actually satirizingAnd that group happens to be actors who rely on gimmicks for Oscars. That's who they were satirizing.
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But why is it happening alot lately that people act like they didn't knew something they did was racist? Something in the past decade has happened where some people have either turned ignorant or just plain dumb.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
People are still talking about this? (Not a slight on you, OP, I'm just surprised.) Well I'm black and...I wasn't offended by it because I was looking at it in context.
They weren't satirizing black people. They were satirizing the lengths actors will go to for movies/awards and that Hollywood has only a few ("name") black actors that they'll go to if they need a lead.
A black actor in the role of Kirk Lazarus would not have made sense to me and would not have gotten their point across as effectively.
to answer your question OP..no, I wasn't offended at all. I thought Downey Jr's character was absolutely brilliant! Loved his performance!
shareI'm black myself, and also utterly anti-racist. I didn't find that role of Downey's offensive in the least. It's not like they portrayed a jigab** clown type who's at the service of the white folks in the movie and acting like the most ridiculous buffoon of the bunch. Lazarus and all the others are equally moronic. Besides, at one point, the real black character gives the Australian guy a verbal beating because of the latter's antics. Sometimes, we must not take things too seriously, and recognize humor and self-deprecation as tools that can help ease race relations.
shareI thought RDJ was hilarious as Lincoln Osirus/Kirk Lazarus! Personally, I find racial humor funny as hell. Racism is a super serious matter that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so why not poke a little fun at it sometimes? Plus, it's no worse than the whole "retard" speech.
Lincoln Osirus: "I know who I am! I'm a dude, playin' a dude, disguised as another dude!"
Yep. Them using the R word was the worst part of the movie.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
Wow... Political correctness at its finest. You can say retard, it's a medical term. Calling someone a retard is another issue entirely, but that doesn't mean the word should never be used.
shareI was not offended as it wasnt done in a manner that echoed the racist degrading blackface of the face.
"I think I liked it better when I thought Sylar ate brains."
What was different about it then what they would have done in the 40's?
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
The intent to degrade,demoralize and propagate racist thinking.
"I think I liked it better when I thought Sylar ate brains."
I'm black, and I was not offended. The idea of an Australian playing a black man is very funny, and there's nothing in that idea that is offensive. And I actually think they were pretty PC about carrying out the idea...Downey Jr.'s approach was clearly to play a white guy doing a bad black impression, which imo is poking fun at the stereotype...and they got T Jackson to play straightman to his foolishness.
It killed! RDJ is the only reason I decided to finally watch this anyhow.
PC? Wow I wouldn't go that far. I understand how it wouldn't make you mad but saying that they were doing it very carefully?
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
Ok, how was it careless then?
The fact that it was even done. I don't think it's right for anyone to try to bring it back, so I even think Spike Lee was wrong.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
OH well yes, the general morality of bringing blackface back to entertainment at all is questionable, I can respect that, But in my opinion there was nothing within the actual portrayal of the character(/s?) that was offensive. Even within the context of the film it was absurd, and not applauded.
But I'm pretty lax about comedy I guess. And it was rated R, so.
Let me put a hypothetical out there. Imagine if a kkk group somewhere recorded and uploaded a minstrel show using the same style of makeup from this movie and even using the character. If a person finds Robert's performance in this movie funny and entertaining do they still have the moral right get mad at the kkk group for the minstrel show? I don't think you can have it both ways and say "Robert Downy Jr's use of blackface was great!" but then turning around and point at the kkk group and say "They're so racist!".
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
To be honest, I'd rather the KKK do that than kill black people.
And it's not Robert Downey Jr.'s use of blackface. It's his character's use of blackface (or hyperpigmentation, whatever they said to make it more PC), which we are not applauding, but laughing at because it's absurd that he thinks it's ok.
The blackface in the movie isn't intended to hurt black people, and I mean, the hypothetical KKK group's show probably is. They're doing it in earnest despite the historical context, and so I'd consider it a racist act.
Well then I think you're a hypocrite. You can't say it's all right for one person to do something but not for another.
"Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life."-Brooke Shields
So be it then.
share[deleted]
Because with those situations a promise and responsibility are given. Duh!
"If you don't stand up for something, you'll fall for anything."
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Did you even see the movie? In the film the characters use of blackface is controversial, as it would be if RJD was playing an African-American. However, he was not. He was playing a white actor making a controversial decision. Take the movie White Chicks, for example. Sean and Marlon Wayans were not playing white girls, they were playing African-American men dressed up as white girls.
shareThose 2 are completely different things, 1 is saterizing the method actor while the other is making racist propoganda, dam fine trolling tho.
shareI think people don't have a problem because it is Robert Downey jr doing it.
RDJ seems to have built up a pretty sympathetic fanbase over the years, and has got people on his side because he took control of his life (forget the fact that he also lost control of his life initally). RDJ is a good actor, but he seems to get a lot of favorable press.
If someone like Mel Gibson played the same role, he would be criticized for it, because Hollywood has already condemned him as a racist. Or if Tom Cruise did it, he would be lambasted, since he is a Scientologist and is considered a bit of a douchebag.
Either it is a racist or isn't. I just hope that most people defending RDJ's portrayal also had the same opinion if an actor they didn't like played the same role the same way.
People don't have a problem with it because the joke is always on the character. We're meant to laugh at Kirk Lazarus' apparent obliviousness about how utterly inappropriate he's being. It kinda reminds me of that university professor who "renounced his whiteness" to show off how liberal and PC he was. But in reality, people like that have no clue about the black experience. That's why you have the Alpa Chino character, taking Lazarus down a peg.
The film critic Leonard Maltin once said something similar about Chico Marx; you can't be offended by the Italian dialect bit, because it's so patently phony. That his character thinks he's fooling anyone is what makes the humor work.
Obviously, as you said, it helps that RDJ has no history of being a bigot in real life, lol. But also, as an actor he knew how to bring some nuance to the character. Lazarus is this self important guy, but he also has a bit of naivety and vulnerability. He uses the whole method acting thing to keep himself at a distance from other actors, so he can feel superior and ease his own insecurity. Except that it's finally causing him to crack and he has to let it go. He's not a black face joke; he's a fully fleshed out character with an arc.
"Kyrie eleison, down the road that I must travel. Kyrie eleison, through the darkness of the night."
You are probably right about people giving RDJ some sort of special pass. Same way no one attacks Louis CK for using the N-word.
I still think what ultimately saves him is that he isn't playing a black man in the movie. Even further, he's not playing an American --which isn't to say that Australians can't be racist, but does imply that he's dying his skin fully unaware of this particular tidbit of America's racial history.
But yes, using blackface to portray black people is still racially insensitive at best.
The character is not there to make fun of black people. If anything, he's there to make fun of white people who fancy themselves politically correct and progressive, but in reality have no clue about the black experience. That's why Alpa Chino is there; to tell him he's clueless. It's a jab at limousine liberal types; not at black people. Look at the overall theme of the film, it's all about lampooning the pretentious of actors and Hollywood.
but does imply that he's dying his skin fully unaware of this particular tidbit of America's racial history
Completely forgot about that. good point.
shareThanks! I get what you're saying too, that a non-American wouldn't have necessarily grown up learning about American racial history, and hence might be more likely to do something "politically incorrect." Depends on the person of course.
"Iron Man restores the sense of optimism and adventure that the superhero genre was built on."