Top and Bottom - Shelter (2009) Discussion

shaun if defo the bottom.

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[–] dgchgo 16 years ago

I think it's an interesting point, but the movie doesn't give us much information. Shaun's definitely the aggressor originally (a power bottom, maybe?), though not in an aggressive way. On at least two occasions, Zach comes to Shaun, and at least twice he shoves Shaun away. Zach basically calls the shots, which Shaun is willing to have him do -- but Shaun does make his needs and intentions clear.

The only overt sex we're shown is when Shaun goes down on Zach on their first night in bed -- so that makes Shaun the oral bottom (though it went so fast that I'm not sure whether Zach came -- oh, to be young again! -- he's very quiet about it if he did).

I don't remember seeing condoms strewn around the bedroom, so I'm not sure we have answers in terms of anal sex. It may be that they didn't go there. My gut feeling is that they're versatile in that department but that it's not a big part of their relationship.

I feel like it's different from Jack & Ennis's relationship, where Jack's definitely the power bottom. (My guess is that, in 20 years of loving, Ennis was penetrated rarely if at all.) I feel as though Zach and Shaun have a more shared partnership.

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[–] illl 12 years ago

I think it's super obvious that Shaun is the top, Zach seems like the guy who secretly likes to be spoiled... He's obviously a very lovely cute bottom awww <3

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[–] matthewsframe 16 years ago

Why does it matter?

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[–] atlguy0010 16 years ago

I agree. That thought never came to my mind during the movie as this was not what the movie was about or at least not to me anyway.

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[–] pogostiks 16 years ago

What a dumb question.
Dumb first of all because it seems to suggest that people are automatically one or the other - when quite often they are both... or neither.

Many gays never practice sodomy.
Many people start as one and end up as the other.
Many people change depending on their mood.
And there is nothing in this film that could be used to try and figure out an answer to this dumb question - because except for stereotypes (which are not aways viable) I doubt very much if people's behaviour out of bed could suggest what they like IN bed.

My ass used to be my best asset - so when I was in a cabin in a sauna, that is what I showed off by lying on my stomach. Most people would assume that I am therefore a bottom and that the guys who came into my cabin were automatically gonna screw me.
Well, sorry folks, but the number of times I had these huge muscle boys enter and then make it obvious that they wanted me to screw THEM... well, you get the idea.

I repeat: what a dumb question.

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[–] SupremeCourt3 16 years ago

Wow! You say the question is dumb then proceed to share the sordid details of your sex life. Thanks!

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[–] Hushpuppy_20 16 years ago

I would guess at the early stage of their relationship and Zach's inexperience with other guys (as far as we know) that Shaun was likely the bottom if they had even gone that far. Then again, Shaun was the rich "daddy" type so maybe he got to be the top :P J/K

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[–] pogostiks 16 years ago

The question is dumb - first because it doesn't really matter WHO is the bottom or the top... often there IS no bottom or top... but I thought I'd answer to "straighten" this person out as to WHY his question is dumb... .

As for the details of my sex-life being "sordid"... well, to quote Woody Allan: If you think sex is dirty and disgusting, you are probably doing it right!"

Chill, man!

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[–] e2727 16 years ago

It's all fiction and besides they are straight guy's playing the roles, so it don't matter

2008 Emmy Noms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7ZkjY9rNac&fmt=18/

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[–] xawkwardxolliex 16 years ago

I believe that Shaun was top, but I guess that's just because he's bigger and I'm stereotyping.

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[–] SamuelPlankmaker 16 years ago

I actually see them being versatile. I can definitely see Zach wanting Shaun to "teach" him a few things, what with the whole Master-student dynamic Zach kept referencing as their little inside joke thing.

"If he's so smart, how come he's dead?"

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[–] SirFrancisBeaverhausen 16 years ago

In all honesty, who cares? They were in love so it doesn't matter at all. This flick is so wonderful! Damn--to have Brad Rowe looking at me with such loving eyes would be paradise!

If I'd been a ranch, they would've named me the Bar Nothing.

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[–] SamuelPlankmaker 16 years ago

Who cares?? It's fun to talk about, it's as simple as that. Obviously we're on this board because we also loved the film. Let us explore our imaginations in peace.

"If he's so smart, how come he's dead?"

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[–] murph24 16 years ago

It's possible neither is a "top" or a "bottom" - many gay men don't like anal sex.

A number of gay couples have raised oral sex to a veritable art form. Others prefer full contact frottage. And still others are content to - how shall I put it? - work each other's equipment.

Since the film isn't specific about what Zach & Shaun are doing between the sheets (although Zach appears to take an interest in oral action during their first bout of unbridled passion), there's no reason to immediately assume one is a "pitcher" and the other a "catcher." As others have pointed out, both of them might be "switch hitters."

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[–] maclasch 15 years ago

I don't think it matters. But did no one notice that during the main lovemaking scenes they kept rolling over, each fighting for the top?

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[–] jman2005 15 years ago

I think they were doing frottage.

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[–] maclasch 15 years ago

Hot!

Guess I was wrong then. :P

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[–] Hushpuppy_20 15 years ago

"frottage"?! Is that some kind of surf term?

In my opinion, they were both on top... In our hearts ;)

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[–] midnightreject 15 years ago

frot
is a sexual act where one gets pleasure just by rubbing their sexual organs against someone else. (i.e. dry humping, or nude "dry" humping with no penetration)

In my world there are people in chains, and you can ride them like ponies.-Vamp Willow

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[–] Hushpuppy_20 15 years ago

I was just kidding, I know what it is, but thanks for the definition. Sounds like the majority of my experiences in High School lol...

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[–] SFTomass 15 years ago

Did anyone else notice when Gabe came home and Shawn and Zach were in bed and they jumped out they were both wearing underwear? Just kinda strange since they were lovers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was into it before it was cool.

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[–] graham_the_6th 15 years ago

Well, what did you expect? It's an American movie after all, so you've got better chances of seeing a grisly mangled body in loving detail than a short blurry glimpse of a dick.

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[–] SamuelPlankmaker 15 years ago

Good point, graham.

There is NO ONE more full of s**t than a cop...except for a cop on TV.--Billy Costigan

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[–] Liain 15 years ago

Well i was wondering the same thing :) but i think that Zack is the bottom.

i don't think it's matter who is what, but i'm a huge yaoi manga fan so it's come naturaly to wondering ;)

why are all good guys gay...i was sooo sorry for Tori (been there done that :))

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[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] voilamischa 15 years ago

@Hushpuppy_20/frottage

LOL

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[–] szuchie 12 years ago

I never realized that... ahahah

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[–] bgtaylor802 11 years ago

I hate to be a kill-joy, but really!
These are two straight actors playing the parts of two gay lovers in a movie that had a production schedule of three weeks.

In real terms: Trevor Wright in the commentary track says that Katie Walder (Tori) and he would spend time in her trailer discussing the motivations of their characters. Ahem. Yes, of course.

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[–] kuroko 11 years ago

I think you will agree with me when I say that it's beside the point to wonder who did what to whom. I also think I understand why the writer/director chose to omit this detail. The story deliberately avoids stereotyping the characters, and trying to depict what their sexual relationship is would defeat that purpose by by taking the audience to conclusions as to who would take on a "femme" role, not to mention the starting an argument about being "weak" or "strong". Different studies have shown that only a fraction of men have anal sex, but perhaps the OP doesn't know it. I also think that someone as inexperienced as Zack wouldn't be so -for lack of a better word- comfortable with the idea on such a short notice.

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[–] b-claudio 10 years ago

To be completely to the point of the original OP, Shaun is totally the top!
In the 1st lovemaking scene, although they roll on top of each other various times it ends up showing that Shaun ends on top, and you can see Zach's mega-watt smile, maybe indicating that they ended up in a position where they can go ahead with the love-making comfortably, and Shaun makes more sense as the Top since Zach himself refers him as 'Master' and himself as the 'Student'. As the older, more experienced partner in a friendship where he's seen as the 'Master', it wouldn't be surprising to think that at least in their first attempts when being intimate Shaun would've taken more of an 'active' role, while he 'teaches' Zach the joys of their bond.

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[–] b-claudio 10 years ago

To be completely to the point of the original OP, Shaun is totally the top!
In the 1st lovemaking scene, although they roll on top of each other various times it ends up showing that Shaun ends on top, and you can see Zach's mega-watt smile, maybe indicating that they ended up in a position where they can go ahead with the love-making comfortably, and Shaun makes more sense as the Top since Zach himself refers him as 'Master' and himself as the 'Student'. As the older, more experienced partner in a friendship where he's seen as the 'Master', it wouldn't be surprising to think that at least in their first attempts when being intimate Shaun would've taken more of an 'active' role, while he 'teaches' Zach the joys of their bond.

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