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The reason Germans used the PPsh-41 submachinegun


Somebody thought it was a goof that German soldiers were seen using Russian PPsh-41 submachineguns in the movie.

This was not a goof.

Historically, individual German soldiers did use captured Russian PPsh-41 submachineguns during World War II. The PPsh-41 was heavy, almost 12-pounds, crude, yet it was completely reliable and nearly jam-proof. But what impressed the individual German soldier was its 71-round drum magazine, which offered immense firepower. Watch the 1977 war movie, "Cross of Iron" and you will note several German soldiers employing captured Russian PPsh-41 firearms.

In addition, individual German soldiers used captured Russian Tokarev 40 semi-automatic rifles. The Tokarev 40 semi-auto rifle was the Russians' counterpart to the Americans' M1 Garand and the Germans' Gewehr 41 semi-automatic rifle.

It's not unusual for soldiers to use captured or discarded enemy weapons, particularly if there is a real or perceived technical advantage. Sometimes a shortage of one's own weapons forces the employment of captured enemy weapons.

There are photographs from the 1944 Battle of the Bulge showing individual German soldiers carrying captured American M1 carbines. The Germans were known for looking down on American weaponry as mediocre, but the Germans were impressed by the American antitank rocket launcher bazooka and the extremely well-designed M1 carbine. In fact the German Army actually assigned a German number nomenclature to American M1 carbines. I believe the official German nomenclature for the M1 carbine was something like, Gw231(a), the (a) meaning, American.

American soldiers were known for carrying captured German MP-41 submachineguns and of course pistols like the much sought-after, sexy-looking Luger 09 and the more practical Walther pistol. The danger was that vengeful Germans were known for executing any American soldier captured with a German weapon.

The British soldiers and the Japanese imperial soldiers were not known for using captured enemy weapons on a permanent individual basis unless it was a dire emergency on the battlefield. Incredibly, the Japanese had captured thousands of American M2 Garand rifles but refused to use those. Only at the very end of WWII did Japanese armaments industry start making crude copies of the M1 Garand and then only a few were manufactured, the difference being the Japanese designed a detachable magazine for the M1 Garand copy. Watch the 1999 war movie, "The Thin Red Line" and you will see an excellent battle scene taking place on a hilltop where the M1 Garand rifle is pitted directly against the Japanese Arisaka 5-round, bolt-action rifle. The Garand clearly outshoots the single-shot Arisaka. You can see the individual American G.I.s squeezing off round after round from the 8-round clip, dropping individual Japanese soldiers who cannot keep up the same rate of firepower with their single-shot bolt-action rifles.

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Your point is well taken and you explain this very clearly, however, why is one of the German soldiers saying he is going to "take out that panzer", when it is clearly a T-54? It just seems as though the entire movie was terrible from a realistic standpoint and the battle scenes were terrible. They were shooting at tanks with rifles and the tank still could not overtake a squad of infantry.

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Panzer is the same as 'tank', and it was a T-34.

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The german always used the word Panzer, for every Tank type, be it british,
russian or american. Tank in german means Gasoline or Petrol container, if you translate it literally. The german would refer to a Sherman Panzer, not a Sherman Tank.
In german we call those container simply tanks.
So, when a german motorist goes to a Gas Station, he asks the Attendent to fill the "tank".

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Panzer simply means tank in german, so easy it is

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The WWII Russian tank was the T-34, NOT a T-54. Read some history, for Pete's sake!

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With reference to your stating "Luger 09", did you intend to say "Parabellum 08"?
Never heard of a Luger 09...

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He probably just ment the Luger 9mm, which is the Parabellum 08.

"Gil Grissom, Las Vegas Crime Lab." - "Walter Beerly, master of the universe."

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"American soldiers were known for carrying captured German MP-41 submachineguns"

Actually, the German submachinegun that the allied soldiers used the most was the MP40, or even the MP38. There was a gun called the MP41, but it was made in extremely smaller numbers than the MP38 & 40's were made, so the chances of it being an MP41 (although it was possible) were pretty slim.

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the schmeisser mp 41 was issued almost only to SS divisions, so american units confronting the waffen ss could have used it, others more likely not.

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The Germans briefly toyed with the idea of adding an extra magazine to the MP40(there`s one on display in the Imperial War Museum-London)although it wasn`t a success and quickly dropped as it was susceptible to the harsh Russian winter.

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