MovieChat Forums > Evangelion Shin Gekijôban: Jo (2007) Discussion > Horribly Disappointing

Horribly Disappointing

posted 16 years ago by EricYJChoi
39 replies | jump to latest

Wow. I'm extremely surprised by the overwhelming praise this movie received. Being a die-hard fan of the original TV series, I had reasonable expectations for this film. Unfortunately, I felt it was incredibly disappointing and ultimately pointless.

My biggest complaint is the pacing. The film moves from scene to scene with little regard to character development and mood. I had little trouble understanding the plot, being already very familiar with the series, but it made the entire experience boring. Very few of the scenes are allowed to play out to their full potential, making them emotionally hollow. What was executed perfectly in the original TV series is truncated and rushed through. I thought maybe this was to condense the running time of the movie but the movie is barely over 90 minutes long. There was plenty of room to give each scene some breathing space and allow the characters and events to fully sink in. It's a shame since, again, the TV series's pacing was flawless.

This brings me to my next complaint and it's that there really is no point to these rebuilds. What this amounts to is a nearly shot-by-shot remake with gorgeously updated animation but with terrible pacing, little character development, and no brilliant opening theme song. The creators have been saying that these are the movies that will introduce new audiences to Evangelion. But if that's the purpose, then why is every scene condensed and rushed through to the point where only Evangelion fans are able to follow the plot?

And if these new films are being made to come up with yet another new ending for the story, then color me unimpressed. I'm a firm believer that the creators got it right the first time with the TV series and these repeated attempts to "fix" the ending are ridiculous. I understand people were upset with the ending of the TV series because the events taking place in the real world weren't revealed in detail but do those events really matter? Wasn't Evangelion really about Shinji and the psychological demons he must overcome?

Oh well, another topic for another day.

[–] CharlieX2 16 years ago

having just finished the 10th volume of the manga series (still waiting for the final volume to get translated) I gotta say, the series seems a lot better WITHOUT all the time spent inside Shinji's head...

[–] Evangelion217 16 years ago

I think the series elevated itself by putting itself inside of Shinji's head. Which is why it's considered one of the greatest animes ever made.

Last Films Seen:
Cowboy Bebop: The Movie(2001)- 8/10
RahXephon: The Movie(2004)- 3/10

[–] jawsnnn 11 years ago

This

[–] jjsmithy100 9 years ago

Lol the manga is some unintelligent Shonen *beep* nowhere near on par with the deep psychological and philosophical themes and introspective character development. For a series based almost entirely around depression and the fractured mental state of it's main characters, it certainly can't be "better" without all the elements that bring it's central ideas to light.

[–] Evangelion217 16 years ago

My biggest complaint is the pacing. The film moves from scene to scene with little regard to character development and mood

Actually it has the same pacing as the first 6 episodes of the original series. And the character development was pitch perfect, while creating an even more depressing mood for Shinji.

The creators have been saying that these are the movies that will introduce new audiences to Evangelion. But if that's the purpose, then why is every scene condensed and rushed through to the point where only Evangelion fans are able to follow the plot?

But nothing was rushed at all. And it is definitly going to be gaining new fans. Unless Anno decides to create another mindf uck ending. Which will probably appeal more to my personal preference.

I'm a firm believer that the creators got it right the first time with the TV series and these repeated attempts to "fix" the ending are ridiculous

"End Of Evangelion" is Hideaki Anno's original ending. The series ending was created, because the studio's budget was cut in half. So Anno used his instincts, and decided to make the last two episodes take place in Shinji's mind. Which worked out brilliantly in my opinion, but "End Of Evangelion" made the series into a masterpiece.

Last Films Seen:
Cowboy Bebop: The Movie(2001)- 8/10
RahXephon: The Movie(2004)- 3/10

[–] dingoegret 16 years ago

How can it have the same pacing when it's shorter than the total running time of the episodes?

[–] Flubly58 16 years ago

The editing is different from the series and frankly it's not nearly as tight or raw as Anno's original. The animation is very beautiful but the pacing is different and that's objective from the technical aspects of the montage. I know it was impractical for the movie, but I found the section that was Shinji's blankout and then a flashback with the first angel fight to not be very effective. It got the plot across which was needed for a shorter narrative though so...

It's not "horrible", that's an overreaction but it is not as fresh and personal a telling as the original. Tsurumaki is not as good a director as Anno and his print is on here even though Anno is over seeing the project. He may be Anno's protege but I've never seen him accomplish the depth of editing and writing that Anno has. FLCL was ok but in the end just a decent coming of age story with a lot of really awesome visuals.

Saying that nothing was rushed is just plain not true. Introducing Adam as early as they did and explaining his background and function in one scene of dialogue is definitely rushed in relation to how that was developed in the series.

And for the record, End of Evangelion was a response to hate mail about the ending of the series, not his original vision that wasn't realized because of budget problems. Evangelion is not about the EVAs or the Angels or the end of the world. It's about Shinji and how he represents the human being and more specifically Anno himself. Anno ended the series the same way he ended the depression that caused him to write the story. What happens to the world is not important, it's what happens to Shinji, so when he reaches resolution, the story does also. I think End Of Evangelion is brilliant and Anno wouldn't have done it unless he knew what he was doing but it is an alternate ending. The endings are different but not better than one another. The writing of the series ending is too masterful to throw away because of its lack of action.

[–] OneFilmLover 16 years ago

In a side note I'd like to say the whole "End of Evangelion" was Anno's response to the hate mail and was never his original ending is an argument with so many questionable variables the real answer will never be known.

If you search online for the "Proposal of Evangelion" which is where Anno laid out his entire original outline for Evangelion you can see it goes nowhere where the TV series ending or Movie Ending did. The original ending was more cliche with heroes being held up in some laboratory worried about Rei and 12 Angels outside causing damage to the world until (even the proposal doesn't say this) Shinji grows a pair and fights them. It even has Evas up to Unit 06- which is coming in Rebuild 2.0- and the destruction of America.
Now where's that in the TV ending or EOE? Nowhere, because somewhere along the line (around Episode 13) Anno started to change the series up from his original idea, moving Kaworu back to a one episode appearance, cutting down on the Evas, characters, Angels and restricting the action entirerly to Tokyo-3.
Clearly a lot of this came from budgetary issues but also because Anno wanted to experiment more with the questions behind Evangelion and less on the classic surface details issues of the original story.

So when Anno got to the end of the TV series it made perfect sense to cut the plot out completely and just focus on the essence of what it means to be human. Great idea and one of the key appraisals/attacks Evangelion commonly receives. But you can't just saw EOE was never thought of, that the whole film came to be after the Hate Mail letters he received.

Even the TV Ending has quick cutaway shots to the murdered corpses of Misato and Ritsuko in exactly the same way they die later in EOE.

EOE didn't come about strictly from the hate mail and the desires of the fans. It was sitting there somewhere in Anno's mind and he had a desire to do the film- despite everything he tells the fanbase otherwise. Just like these Rebuild films, while he's using these films as a way to get his Studio Khara off the ground it's also clear that deep down Anno's wanted to tell a Story Based Evangelion where things end 100% crystal clear.

OOOOOh it's a good time to be an Eva fan!

There. It's on the Internet. Thus it's official

[–] Druff 10 years ago

I hope you've gotten your facts straight since you posted that b.s. six years ago.

This has nothing to do with the "proposal." That was just an early treatment, and there are virtually always big changes that happen between a treatment and an actual script. Evangelion is no exception.

When it came time to make the last two episodes of the TV show, The original scripts had to be scrapped. The sponsors pulled their funding, and suddenly there was no budget to do the episodes as originally planned, with a considerable amount of action and visual FX. They had to think of something else that wouldn't cost a lot of money and could be done very quickly. That's why the last two TV episodes are the way they are.

A little later, in the wake of the show's huge success and demand for more, the movie was green lit. Those original scrapped scripts that were supposed to be used for the final two episodes of the show were basically fished out of the garbage, and they served as the basis for the movie. They were modified and adapted, but they were the basis for End of Evangelion.

[–] jktomas 14 years ago

"But nothing was rushed at all."

You are so not right! It not only was rushed, it was more like watching a recap! Where, oh where did all the heart of the series go? Here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0923811/board/nest/171193117 - the rest of my whining.

Did you see all my favorite movies? http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=39935568

[–] dingoegret 16 years ago

What did you expect? A 3+ hour movie?

[–] OneFilmLover 16 years ago

On a personal note the pacing wasn't bad for me.

I've watched the series too many times to count (big Eva enthusiast) and personally I only felt EVA 1.0 moved too fast in the first 10 minutes or so (before Shinji steps into Unit 01). But once I realized how the film was going to continue I settled into it.

Actually I felt the film was better paced than I originally feared. I've followed this series of films since they were first announced in 2006 and I figured the films wouldn't have time to deal with characters like Ritsuko at all. I assumed Ritsuko (just using her as an example) would've been pushed completely aside but the film actually has a few sequences between Misato and Ritsuko (a favorite element of mine from the TV Show).

Thing is EVA 1.0 has the easiest job of the films so it's going to get interesting to see how they approach this. EVA 1.0 was able to tell a pretty good emotional storyline throughout (Misato and Shinji did grow alot over the 90 minutes) but it also only dealt with 6 episodes of the show.

EVA 2.0 looks like it could be a bitch if they only make it 90 minutes. They've got 7 Angels left to do in the films (and there msot likely won't be any come EVA 4.0 because that film will want to deal with the Human Instrumentality Project and Lilith/Adam....not to mention the possible use of this misssing mystery Third Angel), Part 2.0 introduces Asuka and Kaji, has to continue building up the plot and is going to cover the series from at least Episode 7 to Episode 19. That's 12 episodes. Double the amount of 1.0 and some huge plot moments.

Ah.....if only they'd release some *beep* information about 2.0. It's been almost a year since the first film's release and all we have is the 30 second teaser to go and the rumors of the film being released in Japan in December.

[–] citizen_erased50 16 years ago

I'd agree on the pacing problems. Some of the dialogue seemed to be gabbled almost parodically. But the worst thing was probably moving the events of the first Angel battle into chronological order: without spending about 15 mins. thinking Shinji was defeated and wondering just how badly the city was hit, it's only half as sweet a victory.

In fact, the pacing pretty much killed the intensity of any of the Angel fights for me: they were as good as they were because of the brooding atmosphere that led up to them.

Still, the new Ramiel looks and sounds great, and there are a couple of nice new scenes with Ritsuko and Misato, so I'm still glad to have seen it.

[–] MiG_853 16 years ago

I wouldn't say it's horribly disappointing, but I do miss all the time and pace of the original, like the moments when Shinji aimlessly stares out the classroom window; and the precious moment when he lets it leak that he's the pilot.
It was eye candy mostly, and it irritated me that they didn't correct technological issues that they could have. Like replacing the casset player with an mp3, or the classroom laptops for something thinner.
They extended action sequences at the expense of the emotional scenes, and those were what made Neon Genesis.

I could ask for more, and I wish I didn't have to, cause I was hoping to have something, to show new people; just one collection, not having to see all the different versions to get a clear idea of wtf is going on.

[–] cre_xirkle_v 16 years ago

Dude, that's just some major bias on your part. Ask someone who liked the movie and see that your opinion does not exactly represent what most neophytes feel after watching this.

[–] Projectedlight 15 years ago

I too was disappointed by this. It felt like watching the series, only with a new layer of distance between the material and myself. The greatest aspects of Evangelion, its characters and the tone, were never developed properly. I never really felt the film for the most part.

Until the Operation Yashima section, which was remained cinematically amazingly well. I felt that much of the film was simply put on screen and not changed as much as it should have been, yet Yashima felt fresh and alive and was masterfully staged. The new Ramiel is also a sight to behold.

[–] BlacK-KinG-BosS 15 years ago

The pacing was spot on. I mean what'd u expect. It IS an OVA not the series. But also keep in mind that this storyline isn't going to be the same as the series anyway. I like the new way they are introducing the angels this time around. And think about new points in the story that are going to be shown. This will just expand the EVA universe which couldn't hurt. But for that to happen some of the old had to be thrown out the window. I mean the series already exists so why are people bitching about them not following the series in its entirety. Instead of crying about whats missing, pay attention to what the rebuild is setting the stage for and what's to come.

-If the devil really does interfere in this world we've seen his work

[–] Evangelion217 15 years ago

I agree. The pacing, editing, and direction was flawless. The only flaw was that this series is less subtle then "NGE." "NGE" actually slowly worked up to the psychological turmoil of it's characters, and revealed them to be very troubled, and emotionally f ucked up. In "Rebuild", you already know that the characters need to be in therapy.

But the film is still phenomenal, because of that very reason. My rating is a 9.5/10.

Last Films Seen:
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button(2008)- 8.5/10

[–] Flubly58 15 years ago

Not everyone that doesn't like the movie that much isn't a squalling purist.

It's not that it isn't like the series it's that it doesn't achieve the same level of impact concerning what the story is trying to say. Yeah it moves well to keep someone interested but what is being communicated besides self-contained plot? This movie, whether or not it is like the series is irrelevant, did not make me evaluate myself which to me is the entire point of Evangelion.

[–] Projectedlight 15 years ago

Yes, exactly.

[–] cd0196 15 years ago

The movie was what I totally expected it to be. New look in some scenes, a more rapid but fluid pacing, and a couple little twists to make it not a copy of the orignal (which was the point). I was not as impressed as I thought I would be, but I did enjoy it.

[–] Bavarian 15 years ago

Wow. I'm extremely surprised by the overwhelming praise this movie received. Being a die-hard fan of the original TV series, I had reasonable expectations for this film. Unfortunately, I felt it was incredibly disappointing and ultimately pointless.

That's exactly the problem, you are a die-hard fan of the original TV series. So maybe or probably you had the wrong expectations, too high expectations.

And you reacted like every otaku would react: With surprise, anger, hate and fury; being die-hard ultimately disappointed. ^^ ;-)

[–] Projectedlight 15 years ago

I'm open to any crazy changes, though. I'm not too close to Eva to the point that I'd cry foul if the film strayed from it. My problems are less that there were too many changes from the original series and more that there weren't enough. I wish more changes had been made so the film could find its own reason to exist. I don't think it stood on its own two feet as a film, instead simply checking the boxes on what an Evangelion film must have. Maybe if Anno had strayed further from the original plot and created something new with the film format in mind, it would be better paced. And maybe if he'd looked for new ways of expressing the ideas behind the original there would be more clarity to his expression and the film would have more impact. I was entertained, but this was lacking the poetry or the feeling of the original.

The final quarter of the film was astounding, and there I feel it really justified its existence and came into its own. This is probably because this section saw the most differentiation from the original series. Anno and team had clearly really thought through how to bring the scene to life in a new way, and the feeling in the original was put back into Eva. In fact, I'd call it better than that section of the show (though hindered by not having such an effective set-up to its emotional pay-offs).

Fortunately, 2.0 looks to be going in the direction that this segment set out from: more variation and a new way of depicting Eva. It looks amazing and I have high hopes.

[–] tomgjcromwell 15 years ago

I think the reason the first six episodes were recreated so faithfully is because the next movies will deviate from the plot significantly.

This movie was a springboard, a starting point for events that will differ very significantly in the future movies I think.

[–] sinaku 15 years ago

Just wanted to mention one thing regarding some earlier posts (don't know if this was brought up) in one of the last episodes BEFORE 25 and 26 (during the teaser I think but I'm not sure) you can see pencil tests of the fights between the Evas and the Production Model Evas. Clearly in some form or another, work on what would become End of Evangelion was in progress before the series ended.

EDIT: On second thought, it may be during episode 25 or 26, but it's definitely there.