MovieChat Forums > Flammen & Citronen (2008) Discussion > Average film with a fair few plot holes

Average film with a fair few plot holes

posted 14 years ago by ungratefulwhelp
19 replies | jump to latest

Reasonably interesting premise, but a few things throughout just made it unrealistic.

One: It seems hard to imagine that there was that much booze and petrol around in wartime Europe

Two: The Germans were enormously incompetent at times, almost unbelievably so.
Like when they allowed Flame to escape from the bar when he went after the Gestapo boss.
Or when they took so long to kill Citron.
Or when they took so long to break into Flame's house.

Three: To the best of my knowledge, the Gestapo never brought partisans all the way to their headquarters to then stand them up in a truck outside and fire at them from several feet away.

Four: When Citron went to leap the fence, Flame was able to just walk away without any of the dozens of Germans there noticing. Ridiculous.

All of these took away considerably from the film, in my opinion.

[–] themill 14 years ago

The scene you mentioned with Citron did strike me as rather unrealistic. I'm having qualms about a few of the other things as well, now that you mention them. All in all, though, I very much enjoyed the movie. I'll confess that I have a weakness for these lavish, thoughtful historical films. I found the unfamiliar setting (quite different from the usual WWII fare) to be an added bonus & the characters were very intriguing as well.

[–] set704 14 years ago

I also enjoyed the movie but also thought some Hollywood scenes were unnecessary. One was when they walked into the ambush in the bar. They fought their way out with pistols while the Nazis couldn't hit a thing with their machine guns. Also when Citron was surrounded in the Safe House by an entire Nazi army trying to fight their way in. Any commander would wait him out until they can bring in a tank to destroy the building. Simple as that.

All in all, I really enjoyed it and will recommend it.

[–] obband 14 years ago

Maybe it was exagerated. But I know something about the danish resistence. They were fearless, very competent and deadly. In fact, the germans feared them. Honour to them.

[–] karsteneg 14 years ago

The scene where Citronen was beeing sourounded was actually realistic enough... Citronen hold the germans for 3 hours... In reality the germans came to get someone else and Citronen started to shoot...

The germans was hiding a machine gun in the neighbours playhouse... The house was totally destroyed during the fight... Citronen shot and killed around 3 germans and wounded 20-25... The germans came a few at the start but when citronen opened fire the barracks 1 km away flooded the garden with germans...

That was one heck of a fight...

here's a picture of the house from after the fight...
http://www.nationalmuseet.dk/graphics/danske/Frihedsmuseet/Citronens%20gemmested.jpg

[–] g_monte 14 years ago

I love the scene where Citron is in the house engaged in a shootout with the German officers outside. Of course the officers line up wide open in the grass. Even the dumbest group of people would have known to take shelter behind something. I also don't believe the Germans would just blindly run up the stairs after him. It was a decent movie but it could have done without those contrived "movie" scenes.

[–] sandieannie 14 years ago

I don't watch many films with subtitles, but this one held my interest. The few complaints people had were trivial. Real life isn't always that interesting and directors often embellish scenes to add a little spark or energy. The accuracy of the events is what's important. Thanks to Karsteneg for giving the bit of history that gives the film credibility.

I'm sure resistance fighters were afraid for decades to tell their stories in public. Now they are opening up and letting the world know what each of their countries did to protect themselves. Unfortunately film is one of our few links to the "real stories of World War II" and it's good to see one that shows the heart and soul of the Danish people. It's a period in time that doesn't need to be fictionalized. We need more films like this, otherwise people will forget.

[–] worldsoutro 14 years ago

That bothered me

[–] macdino 14 years ago

"Four: When Citron went to leap the fence, Flame was able to just walk away without any of the dozens of Germans there noticing. Ridiculous".

according to history this is actually what happened this scene being one of most true to the real events, though it is written that citron escaped over the fence despite being shot and was picked up by a passing ambulance, flame simply drifted off in the commotion.

the other points you make are fair but as others have mentioned a little bit of artistic licence was taken with these scenes

[–] chrisasiama 14 years ago

Some of those scenes were unrealistic but they didn't ruin my enjoyment of the film. I did find it funny how Flame was able to walk around in public, eat in restaurants yet no one recognised him though lol.

[–] Squeeth2 13 years ago

I thought that the glaring problem with the film was Flamen's relationship with Ketty but then I thought that given the length of the film it was an efficient way to give a different point of view, that of a compromised character and also an added dimension to the Gestapo bloke who would have been far more anonymous in a realistic portrayal. The crude plotting was the price the makers paid to get the extra points of view in reasonably quickly.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

[–] Chriss-m 12 years ago

I think the film was quite brilliant, with some bad scenes. However, as has been stated, most of your qualms about the film's realism are trivial enough, and some of which actually did happen- as fantastic as they may seem. I find that fairly humorous.

[–] ikke_for_let 12 years ago

Stranger than fiction. Interestingly the things you mention are how they actually went down in real life. But I guess they could make the movie seem more real by making it fake in a "realistic" way.

[–] anghmho 12 years ago

Add the following to your list of things that are distracting:

Add to three: the Germans were firing every which-way at the three partisans they killed at Gestapo headquarters in the middle of the city (by the way, I don't thing that was actually Dagmarhus).. Despite heavy fire from all directions, neither nearby buildings nor bystanders suffer any damage.

Also add the following:

Five: Neither Flame nor Citron ever have their collars buttoned up, their neckties pulled up, or their hair combed. Any of these three boo-boos would have made them stand out in early- to mid-40's Copenhagen.

Six: Flame and Citron seem to be constantly sweaty, in marked contrast to everyone around them. Either of them would have attracted attention because of that alone. Citron, in particular, seems to have a perpetually greasy face and seems always to have shaved at least four days ago, something that would have made him stand out wherever he was, not a good trait for an assassin.

[–] anghmho 12 years ago

I forgot to add the following:

It's not enough to have the bad guys acting like bad guys and the good guys acting like good guys; the film has to have the quality of having you actually believe what is being shown to you. And this film fails that test.

Thank you, Mr. Rosenthal, my tenth-grade English teacher in the mid-1950's, and a mud-slugger infantry soldier in WW2, for introducing me to the concept of verisimilitude in literature.