MovieChat Forums > Tau ming chong (2007) Discussion > WTF, killing the two boy soldiers was so...

WTF, killing the two boy soldiers was so bullcrap


Jet Li's character allowed 3 days for pillaging and raping, then suddenly changes the order, and kills the two boy soldiers.

I'm pretty sure retroactive laws are known to be illegal/immoral even in 19th century China.

How does killing the two help build a better future (his justification)?

And what about the 4000 soldiers killed? Ridiculous justification. I'm pretty sure at least half would have joined their army if the choice was food or death.

His character is one big dick.
1. Killing the two kids.
2. Killing 4000 soldiers
3. Adultery.
4. Killing his second brother.
5. Not arresting his third brother with his troops, but continuing to beat him into a pulp.

At least make it realistic, let him do all those because he is a selfish bastard. But instead, they make it out like his ultimate goal is for the greater good of the people. This is what selfish bastards do, rationalize everything as for the greater good. Use easy good deeds to cover up one's bad deeds, or to erase one's guilt.

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compared to 70m civilians died in this battle, it was peanut. Jet Li character wanted to end the war (for sake of civilian)., ppl killed each other in war, there was no right or wrong, just win or lose. The sooner you ended the war, the less civilian loss.

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I don't recall him ever permitting rape O_o

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At least make it realistic, But instead, they make it out like his ultimate goal is for the greater good of the people. This is what selfish bastards do, rationalize everything as for the greater good

Clearly you completely missed the point. If you want realistic, well then THAT IS realistic.

People who commit attrocities will always have some excuse or justification to make it seem that what they're doing is right. That's exactly what Jet Li's character was doing. So that is realistic.

What were you expecting? A char who is being mean just for the sake of being mean?? that's not "realistic". That's what fictional one dimensional movie villains would do.

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The scene was gruesome but hardly that realistic I think. You'd have to imagine that the surrendered soldiers just stood there and took the arrows without flinching and that the archers, even though shown crying and not really aiming, were such good shots that they killed them all. The yard should have been filled with tens of thousands of arrows. Some of the surrendered soldiers must have run or try to hide under already-shot comrades. If they were hurt badly you probably could not tell from the wall if they were actually dead or not. The only way to make sure they were all dead was for Pang's troops to go in and check and kill them personally. But that would have been way too bloody and no matter Pang's reasoning I doubt any movie audience could have gotten past such a scene with anything but pure hatred for the man.

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The scene was gruesome but hardly that realistic I think. You'd have to imagine that the surrendered soldiers just stood there and took the arrows without flinching and that the archers, even though shown crying and not really aiming, were such good shots that they killed them all. The yard should have been filled with tens of thousands of arrows. Some of the surrendered soldiers must have run or try to hide under already-shot comrades. If they were hurt badly you probably could not tell from the wall if they were actually dead or not. The only way to make sure they were all dead was for Pang's troops to go in and check and kill them personally. But that would have been way too bloody and no matter Pang's reasoning I doubt any movie audience could have gotten past such a scene with anything but pure hatred for the man.
Err, I have just one word for you word, "MONTAGE"

The execution of the surrendered soldiers was shown in MONTAGE, for dramatic effect as well as to avoid having to show even more gore (which, near the end of the movie, the audience would probably have been de-sensitized to)-- NOT in "real-time" or realistic "detail".... and the clean-up operation (of the bodies and arrows) had already started when Zhao was finally released.

Sigh, it's one thing to complain about fake-looking CGI blood and such.... but complaining that a MONTAGE is "realistic"? You might as well call it a "plot-hole", LOL!


If you care enough to go around telling people you don't care... you obviously care.

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At least make it realistic, But instead, they make it out like his ultimate goal is for the greater good of the people. This is what selfish bastards do, rationalize everything as for the greater good

Clearly you completely missed the point. If you want realistic, well then THAT IS realistic.

People who commit attrocities will always have some excuse or justification to make it seem that what they're doing is right. That's exactly what Jet Li's character was doing. So that is realistic.

What were you expecting? A char who is being mean just for the sake of being mean?? that's not "realistic". That's what fictional one dimensional movie villains would do.
LOL, this is so true that I have to BUMP this reply!

The really funny thing is how the OP already GOT that Pang is at least some kind of flawed/conflicted "anti-hero", if not the actual "antagonist/villain" of the movie-- BEFORE he complains that "they make it out like his ultimate goal is for the good of the people"... I mean, who's "they"?

Pang and the sworn-brother who supports him? What about the other sworn-brother who vehemently disgreed with Pang?

The director/script-writer? Then why did they also show/make Pang betraying his own sworn-brothers?

IOW, the OP seems to be angry with movies where "antagonist/villain" presents or is presented with some kind of ("bullcrap") excuse/reason for his action-- like you said, some people seem to think that it's more "realistic/acceptable" when a character "is being mean for the sake of being mean"...




If you care enough to go around telling people you don't care... you obviously care.

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And what about the 4000 soldiers killed? Ridiculous justification. I'm pretty sure at least half would have joined their army if the choice was food or death.


The fact is, there just wasn't enough food to go around for everyone. There was 10 days worth of food for Jet Li's army. Even if all the food were given to the captives, they wouldn't have lasted. It was either half of them starve to death, or all of them. Even if the soldiers that surrendered joined them, there wouldn't be enough food to feed the combined armies. He needed to save his own troops so he could rescue the next city from the army that was approaching it. They were an even bigger city, with only civilians. More lives would have been lost if that army got there first.

The point of the movie is that sometimes right and wrong choices are not cut and dried. Sometimes the moral thing to do can lead to greater harm or loss of life than the socially reprehensible thing to do. Which is more important, more people surviving at the cost of war crimes, or everyone dies a hero?

Suppose a thousand people are going to starve to death. If no food is found, they all die. But what if a few of them could be killed to serve as food for the rest of them? An absolutely reprehensible thing to do, but if it will save lives, will it be justified? If it's not done, they all die, and the ones who were sacrificed are no worse off either way.

Here's another scenario: Suppose some terrorists stole a nuke and intend to kill a million people with it, but only you have the codes to launch the nuke. They have your wife and daughter captive and demand you give them the codes or they will kill them both. But if you do, you'll save your family but a million people die. Which is the right thing to do?

Swordfish posed the question to one character: What if all of the world's diseases and sicknesses could be eradicated completely (the millions of people HIV positive will be cured and spared from death)... at the cost of one innocent girl's life? Would it be worth it?

The Joker in Dark Knight rigged two ferries with bombs and gave them a deadline. Each ferry could detonate the other ferry killing them all but sparing themself. If neither detonated the other, both would be detonated and all would die. Would it be moral to blow up the other ship knowing that even if you don't do it, they would still die anyway, but you as well?

Do the ends justify the means, or do the means justify the ends? There is no single correct answer. Such is grey and grey morality.

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[deleted]

Some Asian movies, believe it or not they have garbage material just like Hollywood. It's only with Asian films, you specifically seek out the good ones before even watching them.

This of course assuming you grew up watching nothing but American made movies, and judging from your post I'd say that's about right.

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[deleted]

Oh please, your post was clearly a shot at American movies and how Asian movies are superior because they supposedly aren't so one dimensional, and I responded accordingly. Your response was a cop out, I actually laughed. The fact you called what I said "judging your life" lets me know I'm wasting my time however.

You're probably just another typical weeaboo.

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[deleted]

You do realize your post just made you a hypocrite? What I did was point out your obvious shot at American cinema, any moron could see that. I'm still confused on how this is me "judging your life," you're way too sensitive. How old are you?

By the way, pointing out you laughed because I laughed doesn't make you seem more intelligent.

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[deleted]

It's really not necessary for you to constantly revert to personal attacks, it's childish. My first post wasn't even meant to be hostile and you responded like I attacked you, which is why I said you were too sensitive. You never answered my age question by the way, or even bothered to explain how this was me "judging your life."

As for the little debate itself, think whatever you like. I like all movies, and just wanted to point that just because you specifically seek out the good Asian movies doesn't mean they don't have just as many bad in-your-face movies like Hollywood does. This being of course because you don't live in Asia, so you'd obviously hear about the more popular ones.

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[deleted]

Lol, what an embarrassingly immature post. And with that fine ending, I'll leave you be.

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[deleted]

I don't think a warlord would have talked about the good of the people then in China, not even as pretend rationalization. It was about conquest. I thought that part was an attempt to make the whole thing more palatable, like the moviemakers realized that all the violence by the characters had to be justified somehow, so they put PC words in the mouths of the actors.

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Jet Li's character allowed 3 days for pillaging and raping...
Uh...no he didn't.
...and kills the two boy soldiers.
...who'd engaged in rape against his orders. In fact I think it was Wuyang who killed them after arguing unsuccessfully with Pang to set them free.

The point being though is that you appear to have expected to see Pang depicted as some sort of white bread hero, when he was instead portrayed as very much a flawed, ambitious, manipulative individual whose true colours, we (and his blood brothers to a degree) are never entirely sure of.

What's bull crap to you, made a more interesting character to me.


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