MovieChat Forums > Jimmy Carter Man from Plains (2008) Discussion > So many sheep-like commentators, so sad.

So many sheep-like commentators, so sad.


Boy, it is so sad to see more proof of what sheep most people are when it comes to history. If we had the kind of diversity in news and popular programming in Carter's time that we do now there's little chance that most of you sheep would be bleating this ignorant, right-wing propaganda. Today we recognize these kind of "swift boat" tactics for what they are but if it's in a history book or old magazine it MUST be true, right?

Why don't you read a few books like "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" before you just become another brick in the wall?

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No one else did so I will be the one to tell you that....geez, your post really isn't worth responding too.!

"Lies My Teacher Told Me" - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

“Democracy demands an educated and responsible population...America has neither” DW Marchildon

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I'm guessing you didn't live through the high-inflation, high taxes, high crime, high unemployment, high foreign aid late 70's.

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"I'm guessing you didn't live through the high-inflation, high taxes, high crime, high unemployment, high foreign aid late 70's".

I did. And I survived pretty much unscathed. Yes it was a pain waiting in long lines for gas, but I remember seeing pictures of Russians waiting in similar lines for bread.

High crime? You are blaming a President for that? How much higher were our taxes back then?

I'm afraid 30 years from now, we'll be describing the 2000's as the decade of "terrorist scare", where we allowed the government to spy on us and take away some liberties because of national security. It was also the time of thousands of soldiers getting killed in a misguided war/liberation that we will be paying for years to come . Oh, and the gas prices are climbing to all-time highs. And at least in California, we may be on the edge of a real estates collapse. And the polar ice caps are melting.

All these things being overlooked by this President, or at best looked at as kind of minor or debatable, will become a lot more pressing in years to come. And mark my words, however bad you think Carter was 30 years ago will pale compared to how bad GWB will look in 2037.

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"I did. And I survived pretty much unscathed. Yes it was a pain waiting in long lines for gas, but I remember seeing pictures of Russians waiting in similar lines for bread."

I have seen many lunatics attempt to come up with creative explanations for why Carter wasn't a horrible president, but claiming that Carter's America was slightly better that Brezhnev's USSR is certainly a novel one. I suppose Carter jailed fewer of his political opponents than Fidel Castro, so he's got that going for him too.

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All I was doing was merely putting things in perspective.

We Americans are so spoiled that having to wait for something, or being told we can't have something, makes us throw tantrums, or continue to complain about it almost 30 years later! There are worse things than not having ample petroleum to fill up your car 24 hours a day. Perhaps like dozens of Americans dying each week in a poorly planned war effort, or an ever growing deficit, or a failing health care system, or global warming. I'm not blaming the current administration for everything, but just putting things in perspective.

I don't claim that Carter was the greatest President ever, but he is a person I admire and hold in higher esteem than any of his successors. He has continued to serve the country and world when most ex-Presidents would be playing golf and making millions on speaking engagements.

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The problem, however, is that your perspective has little in common with reality, as evidenced by your second paragraph.

One wonders why you would hold an incompetent failed one term president who subsequently colluded with an enemy nation to influence US presidential elections, and who lends credibility to aggressive dictators like Fidel Castro, in any kind of positive esteem - let alone higher esteem than his successors. Presumably you are either ignorant of Carter's history, blinded by ideological bias, or both.

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"subsequently colluded with an enemy nation to influence US presidential elections"

Could you expand?

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According to Peter Schweizer's book "Reagan's War": In 1980, "Carter dispatched Armand Hammer to the Soviet Embassy for a secret meeting with Ambassador Dobrynin to ask for Soviet help with Jewish emigration and other potential vote-getting issues for a sitting president. The Soviets were promised that Carter won’t forget that service if he is re-elected."

He went back to them again in 1984 in order to assist his former vice president in his campaign against Reagan.

The details of these events come from Dobrynin's papers. Ironically, Carter had the same type of tactic employed against him by Ted Kennedy, who made deals with the KGB through former Senator John Tunney, the details of which can be found in the documents in the Mitrokhin archives.

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Now, do you actually believe the election could have been influenced by Jews immigrating to the country from the USSR, or are you just citing something from the book? Were 10,000,000 Soviet Jews going to flood the ballot boxes?

I assume you are a Pro-Reagan Republican. I'm wondering if you actually read the book, or did a Google search like I did and read a review that stated what you posted. Even though I am a Democrat, I don't swallow all the political propaganda from the left.

Again, my posts on this site were in support of this documentary, and in support of Jimmy Carter the man. I have found him to be one of the most ridiculed and disrespected politicians of my lifetime, much of it unwarranted. He has done great work in the last 30 25+ years as an ex-President, arguably more than any ex-President. I feel compelled to defend his name when people overlook the good he has done for humanity and summarize his life citing the Iran hostage crisis and long lines for gas.

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"Now, do you actually believe the election could have been influenced by Jews immigrating to the country from the USSR, or are you just citing something from the book? Were 10,000,000 Soviet Jews going to flood the ballot boxes?"

What I believe is irrelevant. The fact is the as president and as a former president, Carter made appeals to an enemy nation to make secret deals with him in order to salvage his presidency, and then damage his successor's presidency. Some would consider that to be treasonous.


"I'm wondering if you actually read the book, or did a Google search like I did and read a review that stated what you posted. Even though I am a Democrat, I don't swallow all the political propaganda from the left."

I read the book. In fact, I own the book. I also have read (and own) the books that contain the details about the Mitrokhin archive. It seems, as a Democrat, you are more interested in defending your personal hero rather than examining whether or not he deserves your worship.


"I have found him to be one of the most ridiculed and disrespected politicians of my lifetime, much of it unwarranted."

So you claim, but you don't appear to have all the facts. Carter deserves all the ridicule he gets, and has earned far more.

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I don't worship anyone. I admire the good deeds he has done in his life.

I asked you the question if you believed that the 1980 election could have been swayed by Soviet immigrants because I assume you feel (as do I )that it wouldn't have made a difference. Why would you assume Carter thought it could? Don't tell me you think he was so desperate to win the election that he was going to be a traitor to his country for the off chance the USSR could "help" in the election!

You accuse him of making "secret deals" to salvage his presidency because of something you read in a book? Had you ever heard anyone else make these accusations before? What do you think the "secret deals" would have been? Maybe Carter was going to give Alaska to the USSR?

Discussing politics is like quoting the Bible - you can find something somewhere that substantiates your argument. You don't like Carter, and your book provides another nail in the coffin of his presidency. I admire Carter the man, and I see him hammering nails in houses in LA this week at 83 years old and it makes me smile. Get it?

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"I don't worship anyone. I admire the good deeds he has done in his life."

Fine, but you also seem to be blind to all the bad things he has done in his life.


"I asked you the question if you believed that the 1980 election could have been swayed by Soviet immigrants because I assume you feel (as do I )that it wouldn't have made a difference."

What you and I "feel" about it is irrelevant.


"Why would you assume Carter thought it could? Don't tell me you think he was so desperate to win the election that he was going to be a traitor to his country for the off chance the USSR could "help" in the election!"

I think it's evident from his actions that that's exactly what he thought. Presumably it's also what Kennedy thought when he did the same thing.


"You accuse him of making "secret deals" to salvage his presidency because of something you read in a book?"

I'm not "accusing" him of anything. I am stating the facts to you. Unless you think Ambassador Dobrynin's papers, the KGB archives, and the Mitrokhin archive all independently made up the same lies about Carter then Carter did attempt to gain the assistance of a foreign, enemy government in order to secure his re-election. This is not something that one can merely dismiss because Carter built some houses for Habitat for Humanity.


"Discussing politics is like quoting the Bible - you can find something somewhere that substantiates your argument."

You have it backwards. Carter's dangerous and destructive behavior is the reason for my negative attitude toward him. I am not looking for information to support a preconceived opinion.


"I admire Carter the man, and I see him hammering nails in houses in LA this week at 83 years old and it makes me smile. Get it? "

Of course I get it. You are unable to have an objective and rational opinion of the former president because you are too bound to your own ideological biases.

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I don't need to be a sheep or have that mentality. I remember Carters' presidency quite well. I remember the mess he made out of the middle-east (comnpletely destabilized it -if you recall the Shah, and Khomeini (sp), then I really shouldn't have to say more). Looking at his history with rose-colored glasses isn't going to change the facts.
If the press treated him the way they treat the current president, he probably would have shot himself by now. But we aren't going to get any kind of 'unbiased views' in the press.
In my opinion, the best thing Carter ever did was his pushing for his housing for humanity (or whatever its called) program. That was a worthy goal, and worthwhile effort -far better than most ex-presidents have done with their retirement. But to view his years as president as anything less than a disaster is to blind yourself to history.
I certainly don't need to see a movie to recognize lipstick on a pig.

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NightBiker - what is your view of the current Presidency?

I think sometimes Presidents get too much blame and too much credit for what happens during their 4 or 8 years. Sometimes the previous regime leaves them in great shape and they can skate a while, other times the first couple years are spent cleaning up.

I remember sitting in gas lines as a kid, and the "embarrassment" of the hostage crisis. But I'll take "embarrassment" and 52 people coming home ALIVE, albeit after 1 1/2 years in custody, over 3150 Americans dying in a war with a country where we were not directly attacked or in harms way.

You said he made a mess of the Middle East? He brought Egypt and Israel together, and we had good relations with Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. Why is it that people are more upset with 52 hostages (who lived) being taken by militant students than our country going to a foreign country and taking out its leader and getting over 3,000 Americans killed in the process? Had Carter sent bombers to Iran, all the hostages would have died, as well as thousands of innocent people.

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great response to night biker what kind of pre written sheepish answer do you have to that

I live my life following the NO MA'AM creed, "Carpe Mammarium" - Seize the Hooters hehehe.

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Actually(common sense coming up)...

Carter did send a special ops task force to rescue the hostages in Iran. It was rushed, poorly planned, against the suggestions of military advisors and 8 soldiers died. Many thought it was an effort to give him a boost in the upcoming elections.

Second, Carter dealt with the Middle East in the context of the cold war, where countries could always play nice with the U.S. in hopes of playing us off against the Soviets and getting military aid from Both sides (like Iraq, Egypt, etc. did. So Carter's brokering of the peace deal between Israel and Egpyt (Which really did nothing except set the stage for Yassir Arafat and the rise of international terrorism in the 80's) was as much to thumb our nose at the Soviets as anything else.

Third we could not have sent bombers to Iran without risking WWIII. Remember the Soviet Union had just invaded Afghanistan (Iran's neighbor) and the Soviet Union would have reacted to American bombing with escalated military action.

Fourth - it's worth noting that we were never directly attacked by Nazi Germany, nor ever in harm's way of the third reich. You could even argue, Pearl Harbor aside, America itself was never realistically threatened by Japan. Should we have fought a war with them? Hundreds of Thousands of Americans died in that war, perhaps we should have taken the embarrassment of Pearl Harbor rather than the 400,000 who died?

In short, knowing what we know now, I would still suggest the invasion and overthrow of Sadaam was a worthy military action. Has the occupation after the defeat of Iraq gone particularly well? Not really. Will Iraq collapse into civil war as soon as we leave? Likely so.. But that's not really our problem.. they should not have tolerated Sadaam for as many years as they did. Once again America had to take out the trash the rest of the world left around stinking up the place.

The fact is that Iran is currently fighting a proxy war with the U.S. through insurgents (terrorists) in Iraq, has threatened assasination and terrorism against U.S. leaders, actively supports terrorism in all forms, and is actively seeking to develop nuclear weapons to use as leverage (at best) or tools for terrorism (at worst). War may not be needed currently with Iran. But they must be dealt with shortly.




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Despite the commonly held belief, Carter did not start Habitat for Humanity. It started in 1976, he wasn't involved in any way with it until 1984. I applaud his involvement with them, but it hardly makes up for all the damage he did during and after his presidency.

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romanoff...I realize this last post was written back in 2007 so I don't know if you will get this but I thought I'd write this nonetheless...

Since your post alot has happened in the world and the biggest being the Financial Collapse in 2008 (which if you look back at history, Ronald Reagan was the one who started to deregulate the banks and other markets and it took less than 25yrs for all of it to collapse).

Since your post people from all walks of life have been bringing the discussions of alternative fosil fuel, conserving energy and the mass consumption our society is so comfortable with and how all this is ruining our world, to a heightened state because we all now know that the way we've been living has to change.

The cause of the finiancial collapse, the shortage of oil and oil prices these days and many other problems we are facing clearly all lead back to the Reagan administration. It's clearly obvious the Reagan-policies were so flawed and completely based on greed and helping a small portion of the population (which lead to our current predicaments). And the ideas and discussions people are having these days about conserving energy, looking for alternative fuel, etc etc were all brought forth by the Carter administration and if all Americans have listened to those policies that he wanted to pass, we most likely wouldn't be in the situation we are now in.

So I don't know if your opinion of Reagan and Carter has changed since 2007 because of eveything that's happened but if you still feel the same way as you did then, then I suggest you look at the facts, look at history and don't just read a book that some person wrote to distort history. (It's crazy that the Republican Party are still trying to pass this myth of Ronald Reagan as being this great President even after the 2008 collapse and the end of the middle class).

I'm not saying Carter was an amazing President and Reagan was evil and everything is his fault, all I'm saying is that the policies and ideals that Reagan passed onto the American public was the starting point to why America (and the world) is in this economic state. And the things we have to do are the same solutions that Jimmy Carter and his administration but forth 30yrs ago.

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Carter's the one who got the deregulation ball rolling. I'm not sure why he's considered such a disaster considering his successor.

Reagan continued deregulation, but also oversaw a period where tariffs were the highest since Hawley-Smoot. Brilliant "voodoo economics" helped manage to triple the debt. W. Bush always looked to model himself on Reagan rather than his own dad, so we got the predictable pablum about how tax cuts pay for themselves. Except when they don't.

For Carter's international bumblings, he definitely would have been called a coward-surrender monkey for pulling troops out of Lebanon after the bombing. Or if anything resembling Iran-Contra ever came out. But most of all, the number one grievance by right-wing blowhards today would be that Carter "ensured America's destruction" by signing an Amnesty bill into law. Of course, the great Ronnie Raygun did that, so it's largely swept under the rug.

Carter did have a remarkable post-presidency in terms of public perception... I always thought he was a scam-artist, but it's remarkable how his views on Palestinians have attracted charges of anti-Semitism. The United States' discussion on most things, but especially those relating to Israel, is hopelessly backward.

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