MovieChat Forums > WALL·E (2008) Discussion > Yet another Hollywood misrepresentation ...

Yet another Hollywood misrepresentation of romance

posted 13 years ago by CaptainSexMachine
46 replies | jump to latest

The female is represented as a perfect beautiful being with extreme power. The male has to beg, chase and then beg for her attention, cower in fear lest he be destroyed by her, and then come beg some more.

Let me clarify this for those who don't know: Women, even feminists, DO NOT respect this behavior. Other men DO NOT respect this kind of behavior.

It puts out the idea that women are somehow higher or more important than men, and gives young boys the idea that to get a woman they have to lower themselves and shower her with gifts and attention, without bothering to see if she has any qualities besides beauty, and without bothering to see if she has anything to offer him in return.

Almost every single movie does this, especially kid's movies. Remember what Aladdin had to go through to prove he's good enough for Jasmine? When was the last time you saw a kid's movie where the man acts like a man?

It's a sad state for humanity. It's a rare pleasure to see a movie, like the James Bond movies, that gets it right:

"Frankly my dear I don't give a damn." -- The guy from Gone with the wind

"But what is SHE doing to prove her love to YOU?" -- The star from Stardust

[–] gizmo18 13 years ago

bond is just a gigolo

[–] tedne 13 years ago

Actually Wall-E is unsuccessful with his initial puppy-dog tactics.

[–] mike171979 13 years ago

Women are more beautiful than men. Men do need to chase women. Men do need to shower women with gifts. Men do need to prove they're good enough to be their woman.

All of the above is true, so whats your point?

[–] CaptainSexMachine 13 years ago

It's not true. Unless you're uncommonly lucky, this kind of thinking makes you end up as either a virgin, or as a guy that gets stuck in a relationship with a manipulative woman that uses her sexuality as a weapon.

Women need to prove they're good enough for men, just as much as men need to prove they're good enough.

On a human level, women are more beautiful, but that's only surface deep. On an animal level, women provide reproduction, men provide survival. A man with self-respect doesn't lower himself to chase a woman.

Hollywood does not portray this correctly. It portrays a fantasy. For example, we all know that one man cannot go out against 10 men shooting at him with automatic weapons and end up killing them all without getting shot.. It simply doesn't happen. We know this, but it's a fantasy we accept because it looks good.

My point is this: Another fantasy hollywood commonly portrays is that the girl will always love you if you cry and beg for her, which simply isn't true and gives a lot of young guys the wrong idea.

More and more people nowadays don't have any idea how to attract the opposite sex, increasingly larger numbers are resorting to internet dating, .... I could go on and on, but hopefully you get what I'm saying.

[–] HalifaxOliver 13 years ago

I think you are expecting a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle too much from Hollywood. Its Hollywood. Expecting values is preposterous.

[–] TribeFan695 13 years ago

How could Wall-E possibly lower himself any more than he already is? Are you saying that he should've just ignored her and continued stacking trash for the rest of his days?

You have to look at this relationship within its context: Eve is not yet familiar with the concept of "love", Wall-E however is from his Hello Dolly tape. And he certainly does a lot more than cry and beg for her: he finds her a plant and helps her complete her directive, saving the freaking human race in the process.

Really, this movie portrays one of the more balanced representations of love I've ever seen. Both Wall-E and Eve go to great lengths to help each other out during the course of the film.

[–] DisturbedPixie 13 years ago

And I think it would be a fantasy to say that any relationship is always fair and balanced. When I first met my husband, I know he put in a whole lot more effort than me to secure our relationship, visiting me in the hospital and taking in a 2nd job, and that showed me that he will always be there to put in the extra effort because he loves me and I have in turn learned how to support him and help him out in the way I am able to. Very much like how Wall-E and Eve started out.

Someone has to take the first step to make things work, and if a man is able to do that for his women, then she will be very grateful that she found a man that will do anything for her. It's very romantic. That's why when Eve saw the video of Wall-E taking care of her when she was in her coma state, she knew that she was wrong to dismiss his advances or make him feel at all unwanted. He's a winner.

[–] dmc101 13 years ago

You have way too much self importance going on. Enjoy the film. Good grief.

[–] Ms_Belladonna 13 years ago

"Women are more beautiful than men. Men do need to chase women. Men do need to shower women with gifts. Men do need to prove they're good enough to be their woman."

Well even if the last sentence made sense your post would still be a load of pish. "Shower women with gifts" ??? Do you use prostitutes or something?

Stop chasing women....don't shower them with gifts.....do what Wall-E does....make your girl laugh.

I'm only half Troll....on my mothers side.

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[–] druid_ben 13 years ago

You're very wrong. EVE didn't fall in love with Wall-E till over a hour into the movie. In fact, EVE is embarrassed by Wall-E's clumsiness and constant mistakes throughout the whole movie. Wall-E is a great representation about love, because it fulfills what you wanted in a love movie.

The first 30 minutes of the movie is Wall-E trying to woo EVE by showing her things, giving her gifts. EVE thought Wall-E was cute when he messed up and was himself (like when Wall-E was smothered by the shopping carts 20 mins in or). Even during these moments, Wall-E offers EVE something in terms of a relationship, how to think freely and have fun (the dancing in his house).

The next 30 minutes shows Wall-E's determination to be with his love, Wall-E shows true love, in the sense that he doesn't want someone to be happy, but that he NEEDS EVE. EVE is still embarrassed by Wall-E, because all EVE has seen of Wall-E is his immature showering of gifts and how he is still messing up her mission to bring the plant to Axiom. She even tries to send Wall-E away about 60 mins in. So obviously, this scene at the space pod disproves your thought about how Wall-E "has" to degrade himself and shower this super girl EVE in order to earn her love, due to the fact that EVE hasn't truly fallen in love with Wall-E, it's more of a mutual friendship currently. Although EVE does show she feels something for Wall-E when she saves him (which could be interpreted as friendly, because Wall-E did risk himself foolishly to save the plant) or romantically. Then they have their space-dance which once again, shows how Wall-E is giving EVE something true and real, fun. At this point (2/3 through the movie), Wall-E has proven his love to EVE by his determination to help EVE and try to protect her, and EVE has semi-proven by saving him once.

When EVE returns to the captain and she's watching the security camera of Wall-E taking care of EVE and how selfless and determined he is towards her, she starts to feel a longing for him and his charming personality (which we saw how she liked his flaws previously on earth). EVE also starts to feel guilty with how she treated Wall-E. True love starts to bloom for EVE only when most of the movie is over.

The rest of the movie is basically testing their love, Wall-E constantly risks his life in near-fatal moments to protect EVE and help her on her mission, that's all Wall-E wants, to be with EVE, be apart of her life, and help her as much as possible. EVE also does everything she can to protect Wall-E and doesn't give up on him, furiously trying to save/revive Wall-E.

In my opinion, the last 30 minutes of the movie depicts TRUE love, a self-sacrificial need and longing for the other merely because they feel the need to be there with the other, to WANT to do anything for the other in a selfless devotion. It may sound naive to devote oneself to another, especially as humans will never fully trust another, but I do think true love is a true self-sacrificial devotion without the risk of losing oneself because of the other becomes your support. Like instead of having two parallel support beams holding up a house, the two beams cross and hold the other's weight in perfect harmony.

[–] michaela_myers87 13 years ago

*sniff* That was beautiful.

~*~
Vanity fairgrounds and rebel angels can't be trusted with feathers so hollow.

[–] Greystone 13 years ago

While that was quite lovely, and a fair potrayal of the romance in the film I think you're missing the OP's point, which is a good one.

As the OP said, and you agreed, EVE is eventually impressed by Wall-e's selfless devotion to her. He does anything he can to be with her, impress her, help her...

... and why? Because she's beautiful and powerful. He's in love from the first moment he sees her, remember.

What this teaches young boys is to be absolute saps to beautiful girls who, even if they try to kill you upon first meeting you, will eventually fall in love if you do everything you can for them.

While this endlessly recycled picture of romance has certainly worked in the real world at times, isn't it a better message to teach little boys that you shouldn't fall on your knees in front of a girl just because she is pretty? That maybe you should NOT drop everything to try and impress the girl because actually having some respect for yourself is both a good thing generally and usually far more attractive than acting like a pathetic desperate wreck? And that personality is just as important for defining beauty in girls as it is in boys?

I can't help but worry that these films breed little heartbroken stalkers who just can't see what else they can do to win the pretty girl who keeps shooting at them!

But then, I have a theory why you get so much of this stuff. Look at who writes 'em. This may be a generalization but it does often seem to men who look like they were once shy geeky artistic (read 'dreamy') kids. I wonder whether the hangover from dreaming about that unattainable girl in highschool who would have fallen in love with them if ONLY they had tried harder still informs their work. Maybe they're realising their failed young crushes onscreen, making fantasy reality. Put it this way - if the confident guys who didn't used to beg for girls' attention, but actually got it, wrote more of these films do you think they'd write them like this? I doubt it.

[–] mathknapp 13 years ago

-------------------------------------------------
As the OP said, and you agreed, EVE is eventually impressed by Wall-e's selfless devotion to her. He does anything he can to be with her, impress her, help her...

... and why? Because she's beautiful and powerful. He's in love from the first moment he sees her, remember.

What this teaches young boys is to be absolute saps to beautiful girls who, even if they try to kill you upon first meeting you, will eventually fall in love if you do everything you can for them.

-------------------------------------------------------

Does WallE love her because she's beautiful, or because he's lonely and starved for companionship?

I also don't view WallE's actions quite as harshly as the OP. Is it puppy dog devotion, or is it courting? Yes, WallE tries to impress her, but he also is trying to get to know her, and let her get to know him. He saves her from the dust storm, and let's her into his home where she sees all of his treasures and learns about who WallE is. This is when EVE starts to care about him.

[–] Greystone 13 years ago

Well, yes that too, although I wonder why he never fell for the cockroach if it's just about loneliness. Ok, maybe not, but still it only makes this 'beautiful romance' even more about a desperate boy robot doing anything to impress an amazing girl robot, if not because she's beautiful then just because she exists.

Also, I just watched it and EVE couldn't care less about Wall-e at the point you mention, she's just interested in the stuff he shows her. She cares about him when she realises how devoted he was to her during that bit where he romanced her lifeless body!

Seriously, if this was done with humans it would be the equivalent of the girl realising that the simple guy dressed her up and 'held her hand' while she was in a coma, and finding that romantic instead of scary!

Yeah, I'm being silly, but it is kinda weird trying to find a parallel. Maybe my mind is tainted because I watched Kill Bill 1 yesterday and there was a bit where The Bride was in a coma and Buck...

and, well, it all turned out quite different. While EVE tried to save Wall-e from being squashed in an electric trapdoor The Bride had other plans for Buck's head and a normal door. Just sayin' that in real life it could go either way...

[–] TribeFan695 13 years ago

Also, I just watched it and EVE couldn't care less about Wall-e at the point you mention, she's just interested in the stuff he shows her. She cares about him when she realises how devoted he was to her during that bit where he romanced her lifeless body!

If she didn't care about him at all until that point, then she wouldn't have saved him from the steward-bots. Or, for that matter, have gone dancing with him.

Seriously, if this was done with humans it would be the equivalent of the girl realising that the simple guy dressed her up and 'held her hand' while she was in a coma, and finding that romantic instead of scary!

Yeah, I'm being silly, but it is kinda weird trying to find a parallel. Maybe my mind is tainted because I watched Kill Bill 1 yesterday and there was a bit where The Bride was in a coma and Buck...

Buck's actions were committed with absolutely no regard for the humanity of The Bride. He only saw her as a way to make money and probably had not counted on her ever waking up. That certainly wasn't the case with Wall-E, who did those things because he wanted her to wake up.

[–] Greystone 13 years ago

Yeah, I'm not saying she didn't care about him at all, but she treated him pretty much like a dumb animal which was rather annoying but which she didn't want to get harmed. The dance happened right after he gave her the plant, it's not like she was just suddenly in the mood to dance with him.

The Kill Bill comparison was a joke :/ But Wall-e was still very weird to EVE while she was asleep. I know it's different from humans because they're both naive etc, but it still relies on the old 'freakishly devoted lovesick person pines over another, and when the other realises how freakishly devoted they are falls in love straight back'. It's stalker fantasy 101. If only they saw how much effort I put into my gifts/songs/shrine they would definitely fall for me...

[–] TribeFan695 13 years ago

I know it's different from humans because they're both naive etc, but it still relies on the old 'freakishly devoted lovesick person pines over another, and when the other realises how freakishly devoted they are falls in love straight back'. It's stalker fantasy 101. If only they saw how much effort I put into my gifts/songs/shrine they would definitely fall for me...

But those gifts/songs/shrine still didn't work as much as Wall-E getting back the plant. That was what really got Eve to like him. The security cam footage was pretty much icing on the cake.

So is Eve's spark at the end of the film "stalker fantasy 101" too?

[–] Greystone 13 years ago

Are you serious? You think giving her a plant to fulfil her robotic directive, resulting in a fun, cute celebratory dance was more important to her (and the plot) than her realisation that Wall-e had selflessly cared for her all that time? Look at her eyes for goodness sake! Look at her hands! It's when she learns what love is. It's when she's supposed to develop a soul that's deeper than directives and random amusements. In the bit just before it, and after the dance, she tells Wall-e to stay put like a dog and has no interest in holding his hand. After seeing the video everything has changed. I mean sure, the plant got her to 'like' him a bit, but the 'icing on the cake' you're referring to is falling in love! If you're proposing that she fell in love with him after the plant, you're saying the film is MORE shallow than I am - hey that guy who I just tried to permanently remove from my life saved that THING I wanted. Now I love him!

Eve's spark at the end is "stalker fantasy 101" indeed! The stalker imagines that he'll do EVERYTHING for the girl, devote his whole life to her, to such a point where his life is threatened - then, like with the shrine, she'll see the depth of his love, fall in love straight back, and save him. This is the point that the OP raised. Instead of EVE actually being interested in Wall-e for what he is, she has to be won over by his absolute devotion to her. EVE meanwhile just has to float about looking shiny and Wall-e will do ANYTHING for her.

[–] TribeFan695 13 years ago

Are you serious? You think giving her a plant to fulfil her robotic directive, resulting in a fun, cute celebratory dance was more important to her (and the plot) than her realisation that Wall-e had selflessly cared for her all that time? Look at her eyes for goodness sake! Look at her hands! It's when she learns what love is.

Maybe "icing on the cake" probably wasn't the right phrase to use. What I'm trying to say is that it all was a more gradual process than you seem to claim it is. The security cam probably would not have had the same impact if she hadn't already developed a liking to Wall-E. She didn't even really know Wall-E wanted to hold hands until they got back from their dance.

Instead of EVE actually being interested in Wall-e for what he is, she has to be won over by his absolute devotion to her. EVE meanwhile just has to float about looking shiny and Wall-e will do ANYTHING for her.

If all Eve did was to look shiny, wouldn't Wall-E have already fallen in love with something in his collection? She had a hidden personality; that's what Wall-E really latched on to. Remember her reaction to the cockroach?

Yes, it did take Eve longer to reciprocate. I don't have a problem with that if she doesn't hate him at the start as is the case of most romantic comedies. It wouldn't have made sense anyway, since she's oblivious to the concept of love at the start and Wall-E isn't.

And I think Eve did more than her part to justify Wall-E's love anyway. She saved his ass at least three times during the course of the film.

[–] TribeFan695 13 years ago

What this teaches young boys is to be absolute saps to beautiful girls who, even if they try to kill you upon first meeting you, will eventually fall in love if you do everything you can for them.

It's not like Eve actively hated Wall-E upon first meeting. Those times she shot at him were just instinctive. When she does actually get angry at him on the ship, she still never points her gun at him.

While this endlessly recycled picture of romance has certainly worked in the real world at times, isn't it a better message to teach little boys that you shouldn't fall on your knees in front of a girl just because she is pretty? That maybe you should NOT drop everything to try and impress the girl because actually having some respect for yourself is both a good thing generally and usually far more attractive than acting like a pathetic desperate wreck? And that personality is just as important for defining beauty in girls as it is in boys?

I'm curious as to what you think a more respectable approach for Wall-E would've been.

[–] ebow 13 years ago

Except EVE isn't female just as Wall E isn't male. They're robots. Maybe that is exactly how romances work in the world of robots.

[–] anti__alias 13 years ago

Yes. They're robots. Does the idea of romance even apply? Why not asexual friendship? Not EVERYTHING is about sex.

[–] viktor_habbohotel 13 years ago

What would you think the general public would've said if Wall-e was a girl and EVE was a man?

Either way, it's still all wrong, no sex is stronger than the other, and both sexes has its ups and downs. However, I think people looks too much into it. It's really just a more advanced robot versus a less advanced robot.

[–] Tychoxz 13 years ago

This is what the Internets has called "Dogged Nice Guy". And you know why it's so common? Because it works for fiction. Noone is gonna repeat this behavior just because of watching movies. It works in silly, worthless movies but it also works specially well when there's actual character development and a coherent plot.

Get over it.

[–] jajceboy 13 years ago

My god people, you actually take this movie portrayal of love seriously? or in any movie for that matter?

And I highly doubt that children will learn anything from the movies message, just as they haven't from Aladdin and other movies. Children dont reflect on movies that way. They enjoy the move, gets entertained by it and and that's it.
Its not like they start to think "Why is EVE this way? Why is Jasmine that way and not the other"?

They just enjoy the movie, maybe that's what the OP should do as well. Hollywood isn't a kerning school, they are there to sell dreams and entertain.

[–] mspatera 13 years ago

How dare you pick on the most hilarious thread in the history of discussion boards?

[–] TheHuntsman 13 years ago

Why do you think that the way as ONE character behaves is like they are trying to portrait an entire subgrup? They are telling a story, a story with a message that is not this, Eve and Wall.E aren't how they are saying we all need to be, they are characters! They don't need to set an example and if people are stupid enough to let movies say them how they should behave or what they should find acceptable, they should just not watch movies!

[–] Aqueles 13 years ago

I missed the first 15 minutes of Wall-E, but I took from the whole film that Wall-E wanted a friend more than anything, but EVE was just mean; she doesn’t need to feel because she is a robot from a robot world where foreign 'contamination' is not allowed. Wall-E is a garbage compressor who finds life, the plant, and develops emotion; or maybe he already had heart. I saw the film as a friendship story. Wall-E comes across a similar being, wants what he sees in the film: A connection. That’s what I saw. He wants to hold hands. But EVE was just mean. Until she sees that Wall-E took care of her in her comatose; there’s more to ro-bots than their metallic “sharp corners” and black and white. I’m probably just rambling. Good day. Good night.