Can't they find real gay actors to play these parts? - Breakfast with Scot (2007) Discussion

[–] johnward22 17 years ago

I agree with you completely, and homosexuality is a minority, so I feel that Unions and Networks the same way suggest that a certain percentage of non-white ppl should be on tv, should similarly suggest that a certain % of homosexual actors be on tv as well (hey...ITS A MINORITY!).

You are completely right and it is just as offensive as a white woman playing the role of a black woman...totally wrong, disrespectful and DEFEATS THE PURPOSE.

BTW, I LOVE John Borrowman too and he played STRAIGHT very well a couple of years ago on an NBC soap called Titans.

He was AMAZING IN THAT!

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[–] navycopper 17 years ago

This is absurd. Gay men have been in acting for years playing masculine hetero roles.

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[–] moobster 16 years ago

I'm not surprised no one understands your tongue in cheek comments - hilarious!

Well said.

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[–] sknywhtboy88 12 years ago

I realize this is a very old post, but I can't help but point out that YOU WERE BEING A BIG FAT HYPOCRITE. It's disrespectful that straight people play gay in movies, but John Barrowman was amazing as a straight man....

seriously, this is stupid, obviously a white person playing a black person makes no sense, because they are VISIBLY not black. Gay is an entirely different thing. They are called actors people. Are you also gonna say that it's offensive to pirates that Johnny Depp played one?

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[–] Clothes-Off 17 years ago

And it's going to continue until enough voices are raised in objection--and publicly. So far Harvey Fierstein has been the only one in the biz fearless enough to speak out about the double-standard. (And even then he was criticized--by Robin Williams, who has donned gayface twice--as saying he came off like he was hintin' at a job for himself.)

One of the worst gayface minstrel shows I've even seen was Jason Alexander trying to pull off Buzz in Love Valour Compassion. It was pitiful.

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] Lady_Groan 16 years ago

This is just ridiculous. Of course white people would not be able to pull of playing a black person! Skin is visible, sexuality is not! Therefore it shouldn't matter whether a person is or isn't gay, straight or bisexual. If they do their job well, then that is all that matters. It's like saying that an Atheist actor shouldn't play a Catholic character!

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

If they do their job well, then that is all that matters.

It matters when you see a heterosexual actor trying to sound gay or act gay and it just doesn't work. It ALSO matters when the MAJORITY of the time gay roles are going to heterosexual actors--as if they can play them better that gay people can play themselves.

Or more likely--thinking that while the audience may sympathize with a gay character -- they prefer watching heterosexuals onscreen who don't "overdo it".

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] MILK-HANDS 16 years ago

It matters when you see a heterosexual actor trying to sound gay or act gay and it just doesn't work. It ALSO matters when the MAJORITY of the time gay roles are going to heterosexual actors--as if they can play them better that gay people can play themselves.

Or more likely--thinking that while the audience may sympathize with a gay character -- they prefer watching heterosexuals onscreen who don't "overdo it".

What are you talking about? How can you sound gay, or act gay, besides showing a romantic/sexual interest in other men? Sexual identity may be fundamental to human character, but sexual orientation is only a very small portion of that. A heterosexual actor need only understand that his character is attracted to men. Everything else is incidental to the role.

...he saw only a shadow on the waters that was soon lost in the West...

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

How can you sound gay, or act gay, besides showing a romantic/sexual interest in other men?

Gee, I don't know. But gay people don't seem to have much trouble finding each other without having to come right out and ask ask. And the only gay people I've ever known to say their sexuality was "only a small part" of their identities were the closet cases.

IMO, that is why being gay, growing up gay, living life in the minority is a lot more than simply being attracted to the same gender. With that understanding I find it impossible to believe that gay actors are getting fair shots at gay roles and the majority of the time a straight actor just happens to be better for the role. Not Bloody Likely.

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] thomasdosborneii 16 years ago

It continues to be a mistake that so many straight people make, that one can determine who is gay and who is not by observing certain mannerisms. Totally wrong. And gay people do NOT always know who is gay or who isn't. Where gay guys may be successful in correctly making this determination is due to setting--see a guy in a gay bar and he is probably gay. But sometimes a gay guy may have a straight friend come with him to a gay bar (this is quite rare, of course, since so many straight men would be scared to death of such an experience) and if the straight guy is attractive, you can be sure that the gay guys in the bar will assume that he is gay and some of them will attempt to hit on him.

I think straight society would be utterly amazed at the infinite variety of types there are in the gay community. The feminine stereotype is actually a true minority and, in fact, it is rather surprising to see that, these days.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] dollvalley 9 years ago

It makes no difference if the actors are gay or not. Gays always complain about being labelled by their sexuality saying it doesn't matter what they do in their private life or in bed, so what's the difference if the actors are gay or not?
THere aren't that many gay actors, good actors, anyway, if there was a rule it would be like watching the same people playing different roles in different movies, what a bore that would be.
If someone wants to blame someone, it should be the closeted gay actors as well ;)

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[–] riel2000 16 years ago

Then I guess it was wrong to have Ed Harris play Major König in Enemy at the Gates because he wasn't German, or to have John Travolta play Edna in Hairspray because he wasn't a woman.

It's acting, it doesn't have to correspond with his or her lifestyle. If the actor is able to get into character and make the majority of his audience believe he is gay, or German, etc, then he deserves the job.

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

I am not saying a heterosexual person can NEVER play a gay person well, but I also believe there is no substitute for living as a gay person. A film like Go Fish, for example, would never have worked with a bunch of heterosexual actors.

And the only reason filmmaker Rose Troche did cast real gay actors in that is because it was a very small independent production. Had Hollywood done it, it would have been Gina Gershon or Cameron Diaz, etc.--and they would all have had men on their arms at the premiere!!

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] traderson03 16 years ago

Speaking of John Barrowman, on a TV program, he said that he auditioned for the role of Kevin Walker on Brothers & Sisters and was told that he didn't get the part because he "wasn't gay enough". Ironic eh?

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[–] duckgirlie 16 years ago

No, that was Will & Grace. Rob Lowe wanted him to play Jason McCallister in B&S, but he was shooting Torchwood.

Ill met by Moonlight.

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[–] pogostiks 16 years ago

One of the obvious reasons for not using gay actors is that most of them are in the closet as far as the fans are concerned and don't want to take on a gay role as then they will be asked too many questions....

What I DO find rather disturbing however is how, every time a straight actor plays gay he almost always gets nominated for an Oscar - specifically because he was so BRAVE to play a gay person... (examples: John Hurt (Kiss of the Spider Woman); Dustin Hoffman (Tootsie) - well, not exactly gay, but...; the two actors from Brokeback Mountain; etc etc) If a straight actor had put in the performance that Harvey Fierstein did in Torch Song Trilogy, it would have been Oscar time for sure... I don't think Fierstein was even nominated, but he was brilliant!

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[–] canmark 16 years ago

The director and screenwriter of this film are gay, and are able to lend it an authentic gay sense and sensibility. And as a gay person myself I have no objections to the casting, which was great across the board (including minor roles by numerous Canadian TV/film stars such as Graham Greene, Sheila McCarthy, Fiona Reid and Megan Follows). The casting of Tom Cavanaugh, in particular, was inspired, as he has an all-around likeability (and it doesn't hurt that he plays hockey). That he's friends with Ben Shenkman may have leant to their compatibily as partners on screen (Shenkman also played a gay character in the HBO version of Angels in America).

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] LordLustworthy 16 years ago

Then I guess it was wrong to have Ed Harris play Major König in Enemy at the Gates because he wasn't German, or to have John Travolta play Edna in Hairspray because he wasn't a woman.

I don't know about Ed Harris in Gates (haven't seen it yet), but I will say that I thought Bruno Ganz gave the best performance I've ever seen as Adolph Hitler in Downfall. And I don't think it's a coincidence that he's also the only GERMAN speaking actor I've seen play him.

And the best version of Peter Pan I've seen was the 2003 film, in part because they cast a REAL BOY and not a woman as is so often the case.

As for Travolta, he was okay but certainly No Divine or Harvey Fierstein--both of whom were gay and not as new to donning dresses.

So actually, riel, you've made me think that there's something to this casting the right people for the job thing.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] enterdream2 16 years ago

Give a job to an actor base on his sexuality and not his talent is plain discrimination. As a viewer, you can have yearnings to see gay actors playing gay roles, but as a producer/employer, it's unethical to even think that way.

Basically, you want the best/available actors you can find/afford for the roles. That is the priority, everything else is secondary.

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

Basically, you want the best/available actors you can find/afford for the roles. That is the priority, everything else is secondary.

And that's not what's happening. Openly gay actors are WAY far down the potential casting list on any production, let alone one with gay characters--lest they think a project would be considered "too gay."

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] daydreamer12 16 years ago

There definitely is a double standard for gay actors, and, personally, I would like to see more gay actors on tv/film in general (not to mention playing gay parts). However, I don't think sexual orientation or race (or anything) should play a part in a casting director's ultimate decision. I remember hearing outrage from both sides when a black boy was cast as Abraham Lincoln in a school play. Some said Lincoln's skin color was integral to the plot, as it made the emancipation proclamation all the more "miraculous." Others said it should not be an issue. Here's my take: by trying to cast gay actors in gay roles, we are just adding to the prejudice that we are trying to prevent in the first place.

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[–] Landulph 16 years ago

Precisely right, daydreamer12. This entire thread is ridiculous and insulting, and completely misunderstands the craft of acting. It is very, very odd that the OP claims that openly gay actors find it impossible to be cast in leading film/tv roles, and then goes on to explicitly cite one, John Barrowman, who has done rather well for himself in just such a part (and quite deservedly so, I might add)! And it's not as though Rupert Everett, Ian McKellan, Neil Patrick Harris, or TR Knight (to take just four very different examples) have been hurting for work of late.

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

Well IMO casting directors should not have to go out of their way to cast gay roles with gay actors, however it is certainly suspicious when gay roles are played by non-gay actors more often than not.

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] MILK-HANDS 16 years ago

Why? Gay people comprise maybe 3-5% of the population. Existing gay actors may already be involved in roles where *gasp* they're not playing homosexuals.

As long as you play the same game as the bigots, you're never going to get ahead. You particularize homosexuality as something completely mystical and ineffable for straights. You confine homosexuals to cultural ghettos and assume that sexual attraction is the only quality worth mastering when it comes to a character who happens to be gay.

There is far more to sexual identity than gender attractions. Pity that you've so limited your worldview.

...he saw only a shadow on the waters that was soon lost in the West...

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

Existing gay actors may already be involved in roles where *gasp* they're not playing homosexuals.

Yeah, all of 'em must be working on audition day when those roles come up. That must be it.

I must have imagined some sort of double-standard at play. So apparently have Suzanne Westenhoefer and Scott Thomspon, who've both reported losing opportunities in the past. Silly us.

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] MILK-HANDS 16 years ago

Or perhaps they're not interested in playing a gay character, simply because they're gay themselves? Maybe they look for a role they're interested in, rather than one you feel should be dictated to them by their sexual orientation?

...he saw only a shadow on the waters that was soon lost in the West...

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[–] LordLustworthy 16 years ago

MILK, you cannot seriously be saying that gay roles are not going to gay actors because of a lack of interest on the part of gay actors in playing them Please say you're not.

Perhaps, closeted gay actors don't want to--or are afraid to, but not open ones.

And I can't believe so many users here are so naive as to believe that there aren't studio executives--epecially in television--who don't mind having gay characters as long as they aren't "too gay." (And what better way to ensure that than casting a non-gay actor?)

In fact, Ms. Westenhoefer herself (mentioned above by Clothes-Off) stated in her act that once her agent reported back to her that he was told she didn't get a part because she was "just a little too dykey." I have the CD. Mind you, the character she auditioned to play WAS GAY!!

And another thing, this is a woman who had a hard time convincing people she really was gay when she first started doing stand-up.

In short, if you don't think there is discrimination at play in casting, GET REAL.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] LordLustworthy 16 years ago

Yes, I do think that's another part of it, people think you're not Acting(!) as much if you're already gay playing a gay role. Some people attribute Greg Kinner getting nominated for an Academy Award for putting on gayface in As Good as it Gets while Rupert Everett did not get nominated for his scene-stealing performance in My Best Friends Wedding to this.

(This is one case, however, where I give the benefit of the doubt GK's character simply had more dramatic stuff happen to him, whereas RE's character--and the whole film--was more comedic, and the Oscars usually lean heavily in favor of drama.)

On a related note, the worst "blackface"-style performace of a gay role to me, hands down, has to be Jason Alexander in Love! Valour! Compassion! However well-intentioned the movie may have been, what the hell were they thinking casting a nongay actor in that of all roles?! (He must have taken acting tips from your friend's chiropractor.)

Mel Gibson was also offensively horrible play a character who was pretending to be gay in his career all-time-low, Bird on a Wire. Knowing what we now know about him, that's no surprise, but I'm sure there are some users here who believe he's simply misunderstood.

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

NWH brings up a good point about "suits" putting the kibosh on flagrant gayness.

Quick, try and think of a TV show or movie in which you've seen a really butch, masculine lesbian.

Okay, Bound. Beat you to it. That's it, one movie! Even on The L-Word their idea of butch is a joke.

When film and TV producers want to show lesbian characters, they always go for the lipstick variety. If you want to see a big ol' mullet and comfortable shoes you have to look to a reality show on HGTV...if you're persistent.

EXCEPTION: When they want comic relief, they'll cast someone to inappropriately come on to a heterosexual female character. That actor gets one-line (a punchline) and you never see her again. Lea DeLaria got a few walk-ons on sitcoms in the 1990's (and one line in The First Wives Club when they go to meet Diane Keaton's daughter--a lipstick lesbian!--at a lesbian bar).

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Clothes-Off 16 years ago

NWH brings up a good point about "suits" putting the kibosh on flagrant gayness.

Quick, try and think of a TV show or movie in which you've seen a really butch, masculine lesbian.

Okay, Bound. Beat you to it. That's it, one movie! Even on The L-Word their idea of butch is a joke.

When film and TV producers want to show lesbian characters, they always go for the lipstick variety. If you want to see a big ol' mullet and comfortable shoes you have to look to a reality show on HGTV...if you're persistent.

EXCEPTION: When they want comic relief, they'll cast someone to inappropriately come on to a heterosexual female character. That actor gets one-line (a punchline) and you never see her again. Lea DeLaria got a few walk-ons on sitcoms in the 1990's (and one line in The First Wives Club when they go to meet Diane Keaton's daughter--a lipstick lesbian!--at a lesbian bar).

P.S. NWH - I mentioned J. Alexander's atrocious performance in an earlier post on this thread. Great minds think alike!

"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns

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[–] MILK-HANDS 16 years ago

MILK, you cannot seriously be saying that gay roles are not going to gay actors because of a lack of interest on the part of gay actors in playing them Please say you're not.

I'm saying that there is more to people than their sexuality, and that many gay actors may elect to not solely seek out homosexual roles. I'm not sure why you want to limit gays to playing gay roles and straights to playing straight roles. People should choose the acting roles that they feel challenged by and interested in, not roles they feel they should take because of the gender they like.

...he saw only a shadow on the waters that was soon lost in the West...

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] celluloiddream9 16 years ago

Oh man, I'm sorry, I need to pull myself together after laughing hysterically at the image of John Barrowman playing a hockey player and a sports caster. lolololol. Okay, I'm done.

I love JB, I really do, but lets be honest here, he would not be a good choice for this role, and I guess thats really a good thing. He has way too much... charisma, to pull off playing someone who is trying to hide their sexuality like Eric does in the movie. I think that in this movie, Tom Cavanaugh was an excellent choice to play the character, whether or not he is gay. The choice to cast a heterosexual actor was probably not intentional, but even it it was it was probably a choice the casting director made consciously, because the role is about someone who is not comfortable being open with their sexuality, and who has be hiding it their entire life.
Either way, they were looking for something in the role that Tom had, period. Gay or stright, it doesn't matter.

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[–] foolsbones 16 years ago

I agree completely. It's hard to find any gay movie where the lead actors are actually played by gay men. Such a shame...

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] leaffan74 16 years ago

i agree...

YOU should have been in this movie.

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[–] hidden_fear 15 years ago

does it really matter if an actor playing a roll is gay or straight? it is acting.. gay actors play straight all the time.. it's like saying a british actor should not be allowed to play an american roll

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[–] thequeer 15 years ago

I agree with the OP. Only gay people should play gay characters. And we should also only cast previously convicted serial killers to play the killer in slasher films.

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