MovieChat Forums > Tin Man (2007) Discussion > The Witch??? (spoilers)

The Witch??? (spoilers)

posted 14 years ago by greatvoid
9 replies | jump to latest

So my friend and I were talking, and we couldn't figure out if the Witch in the cave is supposed to be the Wicked Witch of the West, and subsequently the Witch who possesses Azkadelia?

Some sources for this debate are:

1. Azkadelia mentions, before she starts the spell for the eclipse, that "history is about to repeat itself" seeming to reference that the Witch inside her has done something similar? Though we couldn't think of what she would be referring to since the Wicked Witch never does anything related to an eclipse in the original movie?

2. The Wicked Witch supposedly melted, so how could the witch in the cave be the same?

3. The Witch in the cave was not green as far as we could tell.

I would really like to know what you all think, or if you know something.

Thanks!

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] iwannabadragon 13 years ago

Mobi was the witch who transformed Ozma into a boy when she was a boy. Either by her own choosing or by the Wizard of Oz's urging (the books keep changing that particular backstory). I don't see the old witch in Tin Man as Mobi because if there's a shred of the books in the show, then Ozma removed everyone's powers except for Glenda and the Wizard.

I see the witch in the cave more as the witch that the original Dorothy melted.

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I'll come over there and slap you with an Altoids can...You'll be in pain, but minty fresh!

[–] genesissk2 14 years ago

So I know you asked this two months ago, but yeah. It's funny because my husband asked the very same question.

When they first find the tomb as little girls, Az reads an inscription carved into the stone. She couldn't translate the whole thing but it read something like "Long ago there was a great battle and light prevailed against dark, here lies the evil witch." (It presumably gave very detailed instructions about not putting your hand in the freakin' hole, but I digress.)

I think the "history is about to repeat itself" is twofold. Firstly, the witch is referring to the fact that at some point in the past, she (or some evil incarnation thereof) tried to defeat the light. Probably in the O.Z. but since we don't know how long she's been in there, whose to say she wasn't shipped from a far away land five hundred years ago. So, I think her line specifically refers to trying to take over the world again. Nothing to do with being the Wicked Witch of the West.

Secondly, I think it's kind of a *wink wink* to the audience. Hey look! The O.Z. (Oz) is being attacked by another wicked witch and someone named Dorothy Gale (DG) is going to save it with a man with no heart (Cain), a man with no brain (Glitch) and a man with no courage (Raw). Kinda like the original...bet you didn't see *that* coming.

Sam

[–] lil_lost_one 14 years ago

I prefer to think of her as the Mother Yackle character (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wicked_characters#Yackle) from the Gregory MaGuire books. The description he gives of her is suspiciously close to how we see the witch in "Tin Man."

How are you doing that? You're like Houdini, only 5 slutty, scary belles!

[–] Poison_Ivy 13 years ago

Wow. I myself felt that the wicked witch in 'Tin Man' was most evocative of the ancient "Kumbric Witch" referred to in Gregory Maguire's WICKED.

It's worth mentioning here that in L. Frank Baum's original series, there is an evil young sorceress who calls herself "the only Krumbic witch in the world" (Gregory Maguire altered the spelling from "Krumbic" to "Kumbric" in his books, and made the witch sound more like an old crone, rather than a young sorceress. Baum's original Krumbic witch was described as having the appearance of a 16 or 17 year old girl).

I really don't think 500 years could have passed since the original Dorothy Gale's adventures in Oz, even in the TIN MAN continuity, so I don't think the wicked witch depicted here was the Wicked Witch of the West (who wasn't nearly as sinister or powerful anyway).

[–] lil_lost_one 13 years ago

Unless time passes differently in the O.Z. than it does in "our" world. Take Narnia for example...

River: Don't worry, I'm quite the screamer. Now there's a spoiler for you!

[–] Poison_Ivy 13 years ago

Time doesn't seem to pass any differently in the O.Z than on "Earth" - as depicted in TIN MAN, however. :) As I said elsewhere on this board, 15 "annuals" in the O.Z correspond to 15 years on "Earth" - because D.G was 5 or 6 years old when Ahamo took her to the U.S, and she is around 20 when she returns to the O.Z. A lot of people in the O.Z refer to "15 annuals" of Azkadelia's evil magic, which means that Azkadelia's reign of terror in the O.Z corresponds exactly with the time D.G spent growing up in America.

[–] Poison_Ivy 13 years ago

If you want to connect TIN MAN with L. Frank Baum's original books, the Witch could also be THE WICKED WITCH OF THE *SOUTH*.

L. Frank Baum mentions that there was such a witch, who was defeated and overthrown by Glinda (who thereafter became the GOOD Witch of the South).

Since the Dark Heart/the cave where the Witch was trapped lay in the deep SOUTH of the O.Z, it would make sense that the old crone was once the Wicked Witch of the South - trapped in the cave by Glinda many centuries ago.

I personally don't associate the O.Z with the Oz created by L. Frank Baum OR any of the subsequent 'Oz's (i.e: Gregory Maguire's), but if I HAD to make a connection with the characters from the original books, I would definitely say that the Witch who possessed Azkadelia was the Witch that Glinda deposed in the South.

[–] ricky_says_hi 9 years ago

It's left open but I always thought it was the spirit of the Wicked Witch of the West.

The reason she's not green is because MGM still have that copyrighted, along with the pattern of the yellow brick road and the ruby slippers (hence why the shoes only appear in a black and white flashback). And they may have wanted to follow the book, where the witch doesn't have green skin. The witch's appearance here is a bit more in line with the book where she's a withering old hag - though she also only has one eye.

I'm gonna die of long hair!