MovieChat Forums > Heckler (2007) Discussion > The main problem with this movie...

The main problem with this movie...


...is that Jamie doesn't define "heckler" well.

People hate hecklers because they disrupt performance. You could easily like the guy and still be a heckler because you're disrupting the performance. It is unnerving when a heckler starts railing into someone giving a performance. It disrupts the performance and enjoyment for everyone else.

A critic is not a heckler. A critic is someone who gives an opinion or a response to a movie in a medium like television or newspaper or the internet. They don't disrupt the performance. They don't charge into the set and tell everyone that they suck. A critic is someone who watches and gives an opinion based on their own set of criteria.

Jamie Kennedy doesn't understand this point and it makes his film poorer for this misunderstanding. He interviews Rob Zombie and others...but not about their performance but about the critics that blast their movies.

A clearer definition might have helped this movie. Being critical doesn't make you a heckler.

- G

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I thought he made a good point... he's not talking about actual critics like Roger Ebert, but yet guys who run blogs and websites you've never heard of (the "0 out of 4 waffles?" line is pretty amazing) who dont actually review the film as much as the person who stars in it. And the film tries to argue (and succeeds, more or less) that those guys are WORSE than standard hecklers because they don't have the balls to say it in person, and like hecklers, are merely trying to draw attention to themselves.

http://horror-movie-a-day.blogspot.com

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Good point, BitterMan. All you have to do is cruise the IMDB boards for 5-minutes to get a preview of how ridiculous the blog/critic culture has become. Its hard to believe how arrogant people can be once they're behind a keyboard. Hell, even this board has a few fine examples (see: I Love Movies About Whiners).


Let me ask you something. How come you're asking so many jack-assy questions?

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I agree with Hec and Bitter, All you see on messages boards are negative comments about films, if someone thinks they can just go out and write a better movie, then go and do it.

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Perhaps there are some valid points to be made about our critical culture, and it's true that there are a bunch of arrogant morons on this site, but I don't think Jamie Kennedy is the best choice to make this argument. He just seems desperate to find some way of diverting attention from the genuinely bad material he cranks out. I agree with the original poster that Kennedy seeks to equate all "critics," whether they're bloggers or professionals or just people who don't like him, with jerks who disrupt performances. Who has the right to criticize Kennedy's movies if not the audience whose throats he tries to cram them down? And the bits about frustrated filmmakers? I believe someone has the right to be frustrated if they can't get one film made while they watch someone like Kennedy being given chance after chance to fall on his face.

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I still agree with the OP though, Kennedy really should have done a better definition on heckling.

If I say that the Son of the Mask was one of the *beep* movies of '05, does that make me a heckler?

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I couldn't tell if JK was being serious or funny with his whole "Son of Mask" crusade. I've seen Malibu's most wanted, and that break dancing one he did, and he makes me laugh. His TV show, the Jamie Kennedy experiment was hysterical...

I liked the Carrot Top interview. It was so dead on. Carrot top is pretty funny, and everyone at his shows laughs...so it's weird he gets pooped on so much. Obviously they aren't at his shows..it's almost like critics bash people without really even giving them a shot. They just go with the flow.

As far as Son of Mask goes, I never saw it, but it seemed to be a young kid's movie, so of COURSE it's not going to feel like a "cinematic" film.

All in all, I liked the movie, and will think twice before, not only criticizing movies so harshly, but also people in general.

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No, he was talking about actual critics. He spoke to Ropper. If he was just talking to guys that we never heard of what would be the point?

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I just thought he was using hecklers as a jumping-off point to examine a wider population in the critic culture. I think that he definitely made some valid points, too... some of those internet-based so-called "critics" had absolutely no business doing what they do. Proving your own cleverness through convoluted wordsmithery is not the same thing as understanding and evaluating an artistic process. There really did used to be a handful of critics who succeeded because they loved the medium they were reviewing, who were thoughtful, considerate and not in love with the sound of their own voices.

The worst thing about this movie, though, is that they gave away one of the greatest moments in "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls".



Ooo, baby, your domestic gross is SO BIG. That's how I know how GOOD you are!

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Totally agree, BitterMan. The useless critics that this film seems to portray are the ones who turn entertainment criticism into tabloid gossip, extrapolating a performance in a poor movie (not even necessarily a poor performance in a movie) into a lifetime of waste and audacious scandal against the audience.

I never understood railing on the lead actor in a movie, anyway. Freaking huge teams of people create movies. How can someone blame one actor for a bad movie?

In any case, all of the flowery nonsense you find in the average critic's work could be replaced by "I didn't like it," and nothing would be lost. It's hard to find a piece of criticism that includes rationale for all the slamming.

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This is a good thread, although it might have been fun to see it break down into posters heckling each other, just for the comedy of it.:-)

My thought is that there was a dictionary definition right at the start of the movie. Several comedians also made the point that there are some hecklers that believe they are helping you, as opposed to the ones trying to disrupt the show. That was an awesome part, where the drunk heckling girl came backstage with her boyfriend and was trying to get with Jamie Kennedy (and then the hidden video of her slapping her boyfriend in anger because he "ruined" it.)

Anyway, I too noticed that the hecklers spilled over into the blog critics (who are Star Trek geeks) spilled over into Richard Roeper. The movie was only 73 minutes without credits, so I think he ran out of material.

I had the most empathy for Carrot Top. I do not enjoy his comedy, there are not "jokes", but the crowds love it and he does big business everywhere he goes. Like many performers, he has stretched and failed (movies for him, music for Eddie Murphy, comedy for Stallone, etc.) But his name has somehow become a pop-culture shorthand for something negative, much like "Lewinsky".

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I think this film started out good but then it went downhill after like 20 minutes. This is because Jamie Kennedy focused on film critics and his films that bombed at the box office. He kept asking why they treat him like crap and why they didn't like him. Then he brought in other comics and showing them their reviews of their performance. He did this with Rob Zombie, Carrot Top, Criss Angel and internet bloggers and a few others. But as I said in the beginning he focused on actual hecklers then it was downhill targeting film critics and writers. This is not what I expected. The film fell short.

I agree with the original poster gsanchet. One of my favorite comedians Russell Peters comes out in the credits for about 10 seconds talking about a fight he saw at a show he did. That upset me, he was only on about ten seconds of 80 minutes. On the back of the DVD he was listed as one of the main comics in the film yet only ten seconds.

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Not to be too negative...Oh screw it, I'll be negative. He starts out on Hecklers. The name of the movie is "Heckler". But then somewhere in the middle it becomes some entirely different movie having nothing to do with Hecklers. Plus I couldn't tell if he was kidding half the time. Like is this guy REALLY this damn sensitive? You know the old Andy Kaufman feeling where it's uncomfortable because you don't know if he thinks it's funny or if he needs help? That's almost how I felt, except without entertainment value.

I think what might really bug the guy isn't that there are so many bad reviews (all films get bad reviews). His real problem may be that he can't find ANY good reviews of his films. But honestly he had to know that going in didn't he? I actually liked the Mask 2 for some reason, me and the kids got a kick out of it, but to EXPECT critics to write good reviews on that movie is borderline deranged.

If he ever gets around to it, I'd like to see the second half of the Heckler movie, because the first part was pretty entertaining. But, like I said, my copy had an entirely different topic in the second part.

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i agree completely. it started out very interesting and turned into a whine fest. i think i'm going to avoid JK's products in the future.

funny detail: carrot top wearing a george carlin t-shirt. remember:"no, carrot top packed my bags"? i don't think mister carlin was a fan.

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sorry, what i meant to say was *beep* jamie kennedy, he's not funny and that's why he gets *beep*

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I enjoyed Heckler at the start, then it became a bad film makers circle jerk.

What these people don't understand is that if I got a restaurant and they would litteraly serve me *beep* I don't have to be a chef to realise it's *beep* Would you bother explaining why the meal is bad or not waste your time and go find something more worthwhile?

Joel Shoemacher's comment about Batman was hilarious. Compare his Batman to The Dark Knight. He didn't even understand Batman and proceeds to blame the audience for having expectations.

These people need perspective and therapy. Not more vehicles to disqualify themselves.

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+1

I agree with you.

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I guess Hollywood make's people soft because I'm sure most people have a tougher life

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"He didn't even understand Batman and proceeds to blame the audience for having expectations."

Precisely. He doesn't even stop for one second to think that maybe his film didn't live up to the expectations created by the Burton Batman films. "No, it's just supposed to be a comic book movie, it's not supposed to be GOOD!" he pretty much states.

Holy crap. Did he think that the Burton films were just throwaways as well? I think he may have dropped dead at the sight of The Dark Knight.

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I got what Kennedy was doing when he included the critics. He was making an overarching point with his film. The anonymous blogging fools in the Internet, unlike the legitimate critics like Roger Ebert, are hecklers, but just aren't at the show. The point is indeed made through the interviews with real film critic, who make the distinction for him.

Although I'm not a fan of Jamie Kennedy's humor, I understand his point and in a way, I feel for him. The Web is a great tool, but has become a place where complete fools and crackpots can pass for experts. Unfortunately, there are people out there who aren't discriminating enough to know the difference between legitimate ideas and idiocy. Not just in movie criticism, but in sports and politics, too.

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The biggest problem with the movie was that 90% of the people that where interviewed have made some terrible movies. Uwe Boll doesnt just create movies, he steals others work, properties of video games that people loves and just ruins them. I have no sympathy for anyone like Uwe Boll or Rob Zombie who just steal other people work and turn it into crap. Carrot Top really, half of this movie is these actors doing the exact same thing to critics, insulting them, calling them impotent, saying they are trash.

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[deleted]

Yeah, one of the things that really bugged me was how professional critics were one minute a legit, well-thought-out opinion, and the next minute, total scum that were no better than the hecklers. He goes back-and-forth with his treatment of Ebert in particular.

Like I said in my review of the film, it really feels like Kennedy made this when his emotions about the reaction to Son of the Mask were still too raw. I feel like he his positive opinions of the professional critics were what he really felt about most of them, and the abruptly contradictory ones about how they were all scum were just him being bitter. The whole thing could have been a lot more focused if he had just waited a few years to get that bitterness out of his system.

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Browsed over previous postings and agree with some of the critics criticism but one thing that did resonate with me is that some movies, especially comedies, are just meant to be entertaining... I am not a phone of "stupid coomedy" or "dumb humor" or whatever but some people are and whether they be young or just like zoning out, it is a good movie for that...

Critics can voice their opinion but I also agree that they take it too far with some of the crazy stuff they say (e.g. confetti out of seven dollar bills, shoot myself or light my hair on fire, etc.) I think they can at least mention some positive aspects, I mean I don't LOVE most movies but in general movies are tolerable and I have only walked out of the cinema during ONE movie my whole life (EDTV, although I am genreally a fan of Woody Harrelson).

Other than that though, I also agree with most posters that they should have focused on HECKLERS and not critics - it was the title of the movie and it far more interesting and entertaining!

Peace....

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This film lost me when they lumped film critics and bloggers in with hecklers. This felt more like a reality show than a documentary, with C-list entertainers getting overly defensive. I would never heckle someone, but I think critics serve a valuable purpose – the good ones, at least, and there are still many left.

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Blogs and websites widen the critique populous, that doesn't make it bad. It makes it more opinionated and easier to find. The truth is, Jamie like many in Hollywood or those anywhere else, are sensitive. Yes some reviews are actually well written and focus on the movie and actors and all the details inside. While others attack the actor directly, which never makes sense. Like that guy who wrote a well thought out first paragraph to the Mask 2, but the last two paragraphs were completely directed at Jamie as a person.

So while its fine to be critical the critics never seem to stop at the movie. Funny enough however, Jamie is a bad actor, and many people know it, especially when trying to follow what Jim Carrey did for the movie. I understand its a paycheck, but sometimes its better to back out of it.

As a comedian, his material is a bit amateurish, he doesn't really focus on things like politics or edgy issues. He just kinda turns a "your momma" joke into an entire act. Its nice to look at but he tends to act like this in every film. So I can understand the critics on that aspect. Now that midget...I would definitely kick the fvuck out of him. Being critical is one thing, being a douche in spite of a person is completely uncalled for.

"One gay beer for my friend, because he's gay, and one normal beer for me, because I'm normal."

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That little guy wasn't being serious. He was probably a friend of his and that was more like a satirical vignette on being put down based on Rotten Tomatoes ratings. I didn't really believe that Jaime Kennedy was really torn up that much about the criticism. I think he was just trying to make the critics feel awkward.

As a comedian, his style isn't my thing, but that's how comedy is. Different people find different thinks funny. Some people chuckle most didn't, but a lot of performers are genuinely doing the best they can and think they're more talented than they are. But if they can get paid and get an audience that's all that matters. The ironic thing is if Jaime Kennedy was on a plane with any of those internet critics, and the plane went down. Jaime would be the only one talked about in the news. Lol

Another thing. Critics who are paid have to see his movies knowing they hate him and his movies and have to write about them to get their paycheck. No wonder they're so angry at him. He's a permanent part of their brain. Jaime needs to listen to some of his thicker skinned colleagues. He has no reason to be so sensitive if he wasn't really pretending to be.

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I definitely agree with a previous poster, that the movie devolves into criticizing the critics, and heckling the hecklers. Saying, "Some fat girl from Cincinnati" is just as mean as someone hating their film. But I also think most critics look at every film as if it is supposed to be some sort of cinematic masterpiece, on par with Shakespeare. Some films are just 'brain candy'. It's not meant to be deep and meaningful, fraught with drama and mystique. It's a freaking comedy. If people laugh, then, it's funny and it's done it's job. The bottom line, however, for any film, is usually how much it makes, in a combo of cinema sales, DVD sales, and rentals. It's not "Citizen Kane", nor is it MEANT to be. Sometimes it's just good, brain-dead fun. But one of the last on-line critics Jamie talks to, the really vicious, mean one...how much booze did his mother ingest while she was pregnant with him? He's got that tiny-eyed look of an alcohol syndrome baby---and he's calling Kennedy a rape baby? Oh, honey!
Those who can, do. Those who can't, become critics, apparently.

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My main problem with Heckler was that, ultimately, it was untruthful.

I had no problem with the first part where it actually dealt with Hecklers themselves. I've seen some of best known Stand Ups in the world on stage and have a huge respect for them, it must take real courage to do what they do. There is a direct relationship between the audience and the artist for that hour, or however long the show is, and you respect that relationship by listening to what he/she has to say and not interrupting. If you don't like what they say you're free to leave.

BUT....

What really got my back up was when it turned to films. Hecklers ARE NOT the same as critics! Hecklers interrupt a live show and ruin it for other people, critics are people who give their opinion of something after it has been made. Those opinions may be crude or offensive, but they do not spoil it for other people.

Yet, for me, even that was not the most untruthful part. Unlike live shows there is no relationship between the audience and the artist on screen, despite what some people may like to believe, and despite what this film tries to make you believe. The REAL relationship in all films is between the company or corporation who fund them and us the audience, or rather us the consumers. After watching Heckler I was left with the impression that most of the artists would prefer it if we all just keep our mouths shut because we don't fully understand the artistic process. That may well be true but what we do understand, only too well, is we hand over our money for cinema tickets, DVD's or rentals, and when presented with two hours of utter trash we feel ripped off. What Heckler fails to understand is that most films are a product, and if that product doesn't meet with some people expectations (fairly or unfairly) they have a right to complain. We can complain about other products, cars, washing machines, TV's,and not many of us understand the process by which they're made either, so why not complain about films? And the fact that an "artist" spent years pouring his heart and soul into making one film does not make it immune from criticism. Engineers do the same when they design a new car yet their product is scrutinised. Now, unlike cars, there may not be any important aspects (i.e safety etc) to consider when it comes to films, but they're still products and consumers still have the right to complain about that product.

Saying all of that Heckler did make a very valid point that there are right and wrong ways to criticise. I don't agree with all the personal abuse that Kennedy recieved, though i'm sure he doesn't really take it seriously. Still it can't be very nice to know that everyday, somewhere, you're being insulted and laughed at. But complaining about people who just say "your movie sucks" is not valid, they may be inarticulate morons with the I.Q. of a tomato, but they're still entitled to say it. And it certainly doesn't give Uwe Boll the right to beat the hell out of four guys in a boxing ring under any circumstances, regardless of what they said.

In fact Uwe Boll should come on this site and look at the ratings people have given his movies. I looked them up and out of 23 movies he directed only 2 have scored over 5.0, and most are under 4.0. I haven't watched any of his movies so I don't know whether they just don't have a wide appeal, or if they're just poor. Whatever the reason Mr Boll it would seem most people don't like your films....get over it! And that goes for Rob Zombie too, with the exception of Grindhouse, it would seem people aren't too fussed about yours either. I really did get the impression there was a sense of blaming the audience for their bad reviews, forgetting that it wasn't us who made them. And I also got the impression that somehow some of these "artists" thought they were better than us and we just don't understand them.

If you made it this far (well done!) you probably have the impression that I didn't like Heckler. But actually I quite liked it. It was entertaining and funny and I definitely think it made some good points regarding the some of the professional film critics. I agree that too many (but certainly not all) seem to concentrate far too much on attack, rather than critique. I said that it was untruthful, maybe a bit harsh, maybe not. Another way to describe it would be misguided. It had alot of valid points about abuse but regardless of the dictionary term for Heckler I can't agree with that some of the idiots on the internet are truly hecklers, i think they are what they are, idiots (does that now include me?). And even if you accept the literal meaning then the film did itself few favours because even it didn't seem to know the point where criticism becomes heckling. It all seemed muddled and confused, it made plenty of good points but also plenty of bad ones too. For me it was the bad points that stuck in my memory.



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