MovieChat Forums > Love & Mercy (2015) Discussion > Did the movie give enough info to the ge...

Did the movie give enough info to the general audience?

posted 9 years ago by fugazzi49
9 replies | jump to latest

I'm a fan since 1963 and am very familiar with the Beach Boys story, so I got most of what was happening in the film. But at times I thought the film wasn't giving the general viewer enough background for some things in the film to make sense.

1. Was Murry Wilson's producing the Sunrays "I Live for the Sun"(late 1965) explained well enough for people to know what he was doing? Also, the fact that it didn't succeed (only got to #61)?

2. Would anyone unfamiliar with the story ever figure out who Van Dyke Parks was and what he was doing there? I don't think anyone ever mentioned his name.

3. Did anyone think that the "Fire hats and smoke" scene would have been better had they filled in Brian's concept of embodying the four elements in his album and his fear he was creating "Magic Fire Music" that was leading a fire elemental to the studio have helped that scene make more sense. As it was it just made him look completely loopy (not that he wasn't getting there).

[–] stimpy25 9 years ago

1stly Murray i can't remember if he produced them but he was their manager and i think it was in (1967) and you could tell by their music it was outdated even by (1967)

no i don't think they would know who he is unless they did a little research.

i don't remember that scene but than i'll have to see the film again. i prolly will soon enough regardless. they really didn't explain Smile that well at all in the film. it was barely in the film at all. like i said in another thread when Brian is Telling Murray is telling his dad about the guys making the album smiley smile. i have no idea if that happend to be honest, but when he was talking about selling his music he did that in (1969) i believe.

as for the song "Fire' it's called aka "Mrs"O'Leary's Cow' that's an insane song in itself. he was bat sh*t crazy from the drugs by than. i don't know how to explain that. i think the film did a great job on the creating of pet sounds and good vibrations. that was done really well, by the time he got to Smile they didn't cover that, well as well as i'd like to have hoped they would. i also think for some of the stuff they put into the film.

the casual fan i don't think would know what who his was suppose to be. i got right away that was Van Dyke Parks as i've been a huge die hard fan since (1984)

but let's face it most people have never even heard of the guy before. at least most people today anyways.

[–] johnston.scot 9 years ago

My two cents as a more casual observer of the Beach Boys:

1 - I think the primary takeaway from that little point was clear enough, even if you (like me) haven't heard of Sunrays before. I don't remember if it was specifically conveyed that Murry produced the song, but the main points were clear enough: (i) he was shifting his effort and attentions over to backing some other group, (ii) their sound was going in the opposite direction from where Brian was going - more upbeat "sun fun" than even the early Beach Boys and (iii) he wasn't successful. The last is perhaps only vaguely implied, though I think it's sufficient that people who don't know that it stalled at 61 at least know that we've never heard it.

2 - I was aware of Van Dyke Parks independently of the Beach Boys, so I got who he was. I don't think the audience needs to know a ton about him outside of what's in the movie. He was an alternative influence (particularly an alternative to Mike Love) on Brian.

3 - I didn't know any of the background of what that was. It conveyed that he was getting loopier, though I think it was a tad ambiguous whether that was beneficial loopiness as opposed to just, you know, loopy loopiness. They may have wanted to keep it a bit ambiguous and open to interpretation.

[–] stimpy25 9 years ago

well at least your honest about it i'll give you that. i've heard of the sunrays but you can look on you tube there is video and the song in the film was done by them. they were terrible!

i'm glad you were aware of who Van Dyke Parks with the BB. it would have been nice if he was in the film more but i agree it wasn't really needed. though they should have given his name at least.

as for Brian he was i think like you said getting loopier and loopier. and the more drugs he took made it worse. Originally i think it helped his music but than he was only smoking weed at the time. than after he started doing LSD that's when he really started to change.

Smile is a work of art i think. i don't know what my reaction would be to it had it come out back than and i grew up listening to it. it was praised when he did finish it and rightly so. but given that most of their stuff back than around that time outside of Good Vibrations weren't huge hits i doubt Smile would have been a hit. it is so vastly different than anything they have done.

what i really find funny and it makes me laugh, is that even though the guys outside of Dennis who loved the music. after Brian Quit Smile, and after they made Smiley Smile, they were using Smile Tracks even going into the 70's!

surf's up was recorded in (1967) all they did to it in (1971) was add more lyrics to it and put Carl on Lead. and the vocal was Brian's vocal he had cut in (1967)

what makes me laugh also is that their (1980) album Keepin the summer alive album they were still using outtakes. when girls get together was cut in (1969) and you can tell too cause it's so out of place of the rest of the album. sorry for going off topic. but my point is no matter what the guys thought of Smile at the time

it just makes me laugh they ended up putting some of the songs out at some point.

[–] brendanchenowith 9 years ago

The Beach Boys were idiots. Carl and Dennis may have liked the music, but...thanks for all the support you gave Big Bro Bri...

I used to have a download of the Sun-Rays "Andrea" - pretty horrible, especially when the vocalist (or - - the guy who tried singing lead) dropped the tune in the second verse for a word or two - and don't you dig the backups' bad imitation of Carl and Dennis's harmonies! The song they played in the movie was far worse than Andrea and I didn't think they could get any worse.

THIS MAKES ME REMEMBER - My sister used to collect Teen Beat, 16, etc., and there was an article about the SunRays. They were posing with a girl named Andrea who won a contest to be their....Andrea.

Holy Dorked-out Dweebs, Batman! AND Murry actually gloated about the SunRays. More like the SunBlots.

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked.

[–] fugazzi49 9 years ago

Thanks to everybody who replied. You've all given me some extra things to think about. All of you seem pretty knowledgeable about the Beach Boys and the mid Sixties. I do think each example I gave could have been made clearer with just one or two lines of script, but as most of you have inferred in your answers, most people seeing the film will have some idea of the group especially considering there have been other films about them.

I absolutely agree that the filmmakers seemed to have dropped the ball with Smile. You would never know what a big project this was and oddly, up to that point the film followed everything very closely.

[–] kjperes13 9 years ago

Van Dyke Parks was mentioned in the movie...

[–] JordanRyanBarry 9 years ago

Van Dyke Parks' was never really formally "introduced", but he did get some skeletal development when he mentioned in the pool scene that he had been "writing lyrics professionally since he was 14". One thing they didn't cover at all in the film was the switch from Tony Asher to Parks, although Asher's role had been so minor to that point that nobody would have noticed.

[–] johnston.scot 9 years ago

My recollection is consistent: they never said his full name, though Brian did call him "Van" during the dinner party scene. Given the relative rarity of the name "Van," plus a smattering of knowledge of his role in music history, together with a vague recollection that he had something to do with the Beach Boys, I figured he was Van Dyke Parks.

If you've never heard of Van Dyke Parks, stating his full name wouldn't have told you anything. If you have heard of him, you'd probably figure that was him. It works either way. The pool scene makes the point that matters, insofar as it relates to Brian and what he was up to (and what Mike Love thought of it).

[–] Nozz 9 years ago

Did it give "enough" info? It gave enough info to cinematically satisfy a viewer who knows nothing about the Beach Boys. (I can say so confidently because my wife knows nothing about them and she liked the movie.) The story could have run for another four hours and continued to give valuable and interesting info, but what it provided wasn't misleading. I wouldn't say that "I Live for the Sun" was a song that didn't succeed. Reaching #61 is no small feat for an unknown group.