MovieChat Forums > Love & Mercy (2015) Discussion > Let's set things straight

Let's set things straight


1. I personally like the Beach Boys music. However it is NOT and has NEVER BEEN Rock-N-Roll. It is POP music -- never even came close to rock. That being said, I admire Brian Wilson's genius talent and vision.
2. BB music was also referred to as surf music. I started surfing in 1965 and NEVER met a surfer who would admit to listening to them. On the contrary, most surfers I know publicly slammed the music and were offended when the media referred to it as surf music. Even Brian knew this. Of all the guys in the group, only one actually surfed was Dennis and he drowned. True surf music came from people like Dick Dale.
3. As for Mike Love, he was (and continues to be) the prototypical California poseur. Of the group he is the most ego-centric, self involved, self important, deluded tool.
4. Back in the day we all did acid. The main difference between Brian and the rest of us was that we all had to go to school/work. Brian got messed up because he had too much money and too much free time to trip out.
5. All musicians are influenced by other bands, but it is not right to say that the Beatles had some kind of contest with the BBs. The Stones, yes sure, the Dave Clark Five sure...the Beach Boys? Please...
6. IMHO the best album they ever did was "Sailor" hands down.

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7) I'm a crusty old guy and I've got opnions!

8) Oops, there is no Beach Boys album called Sailor. I might have been thinking of Sail On Sailor from the Holland album. That song rocked!

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I stand corrected...you are right sir -- no album called Sailor -- you are also right that I had the song Sail On in my head...thank you.

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[deleted]

2. BB music was also referred to as surf music. I started surfing in 1965 and NEVER met a surfer who would admit to listening to them. On the contrary, most surfers I know publicly slammed the music and were offended when the media referred to it as surf music. Even Brian knew this. Of all the guys in the group, only one actually surfed was Dennis and he drowned. True surf music came from people like Dick Dale.


LOLOL, that doesn't surprise me!

I'm just curious -- would a certain portion of current hit song "Uma Thurman" by Fall Out Boy (linked below from YouTube) qualify as "surf music"? I'm sure you'll be able to pinpoint the specific sound I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9J9R9Ev1Gg


Definitely not the entire song, just that particular passage.

Just curious. 








Love & Mercy: 9
It Follows: 8.5
Whiplash: 9

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[deleted]

I don't listen to the radio much these days but I was surprised to here that song is using so much of the Munsters television show theme.

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No. The song as whole is, as you say, definitely not surf music.

I'm assuming the little part you're talking about is the couple of bars of an instrumental theme? That (as mentioned) is a sample from the theme song for "The Munsters." I may be wrong, but I think it's literally sample, i.e. they just took piece of the recording that was made in 1965 or so and dropped it into the new recording.

Not everything that's instrumental is surf music.

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Not everything that's instrumental is surf music.


No duh... 





Love & Mercy: 9
It Follows: 8.5
Whiplash: 9

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It was considered rock and roll for its time. Pop music is not technically something you can say is an entire genre. All it means is POPular music...anything that is mainstream can be considered pop

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The band members say outright fairly early in the movie that surfers don't listen to them.

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1. I think it would be more accurate to describe them, at least in today's terms, as pop. But words like "rock" or "pop" (or even "R&B") are broad, nebulous and not fixed over time. "Pop" has been used - since before rock existed - to describe whatever music is broadly popular at the time. Certainly the pop of, say, 1935 sounds nothing like the Beach Boys. It can be used to distinguish pop from purely classical or "high art" music (how it was originally used - and still is here and there, as in "Boston Pops"), and also from more rough-edged, unpolished songs (how it's more commonly used today). The better term would probably be "pop rock," but that one has sort of fallen into disuse because it's so often used dismissively.

If you look at the whole spectrum of music, many of the Beach Boys' most popular songs (not Pet Sounds so much) fall into the broad rock category and, if because of the era when recorded, also the rock-n-roll pigeonhole. They have drums, a backbeat, electric guitars and simple verse-chorus-verse structures, and common chord progressions appear frequently. I'm pretty sure "Sweet Little Sixteen" was considered rock-n-roll when Chuck Berry played it; it would be strange if "Surfin' USA" weren't also (though it is somewhat tidier). Yeah, they also mixed in songs that were completely non-rock, but most of the hits were rock.

Another note: When the Beach Boys first came along, music that fit the broad rock category was just one part of the universe of what was popular (sold records, played on the radio, popped up in TV shows, etc.), so the broad category drew a distinction. In the late '70s and '80s - when pretty nearly all of the most popular music was, broadly speaking, rock - calling something "rock" was meaningless. Finer terms and distinctions were necessary. While older listeners may not be away of it, we're now moving into a world where rock is a relatively small genre that's off on the edge of the commercial mainstream.

2. I'm not sure what you're "setting straight" here. Everything you say is explicitly said in the movie. Many Beach Boys songs were about surfing (so the media referred to that), but there was a pre-existing genre (originally soundtrack music from surf movies) that they never claimed or tried to be a part of. If you're somewhat narrow about the term, to be surf music it has to be instrumental. If you want to get precise, it has to be played (a) on a Stratocaster, (b) with extremely fast tremolo picking and (c) by Dick Dale.

3. Again, I'm not seeing any "setting straight" here. That's exactly how he was portrayed in the movie. I don't know if the truth is consistent, but it seems to be from what I can tell.

4. I'll take "we all" in the sense of, "the people in a particular subculture." It certainly isn't true of the population as a whole. Anyway, that's also not wildly inconsistent with the movie, though it's kind of a huge oversimplification. There were obviously differences between Brian and Wilson and "the rest of us" before he even got into drugs. He was always an odd guy.

5. What's portrayed in the movie is, I think, the notion that the Beach Boys felt themselves to be in competition with the Beatles, which I think is accurate. The Beatles never appear in the movie, so I don't see how you could read it as stating that the Beatles felt they were in competition with the Beach Boys.

It's kind of outside of the movie, but it's pretty well established that the Beatles did sit up and take note of Pet Sounds.

6. Whatever.

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If you're somewhat narrow about the term, to be surf music it has to be instrumental. If you want to get precise, it has to be played (a) on a Stratocaster, (b) with extremely fast tremolo picking and (c) by Dick Dale.
Would you say that The Ventures were surf music?

Things like "Wipe Out" (a hint) and "Pipeline" (another good hint) and "Walk Don't Run"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7r_SfdOr3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqC3BjIyq_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIMNDuYX8Y

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Yes, those songs - and others (though not all) by the Ventures - I'd classify as surf. Purists might be a bit rankled by the commercial success, but that's just how purists are.

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Thanks!

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Would you call this surf music (Wikipedia does, I think)?

Santo & Johnny - Sleepwalk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1st_9KudWB0

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No, but it's at least somewhat in the right direction. The rhythm isn't there. Also, I don't think steel guitar is really surf, though I'm sure there's some legitimate surf song that has some in it.

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No, but it's at least somewhat in the right direction. The rhythm isn't there. Also, I don't think steel guitar is really surf, though I'm sure there's some legitimate surf song that has some in it.

Slide steel guitar is a staple of Hawaiian music so it makes sense for California "surf music" to want to incorporate that sound into the new rock n' roll style of the time.

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Reply to @Johnston:

Just one correction: Most guitarists that play "surf music," both then and now, did not used Stratocasters. Even though Dick Dale DID play a Strat (without a whammy bar, no less!) that is not considered the best axe for the genre. The Jazzmaster & the Jaguar both give a thinner, more jangly sound, due in part cheaper tremelos, and are wisely considered better suited to the genre.

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5. All musicians are influenced by other bands, but it is not right to say that the Beatles had some kind of contest with the BBs. The Stones, yes sure, the Dave Clark Five sure...the Beach Boys? Please...


Please indeed! It is well documented Pet Sounds directly influenced Sgt. Pepper. Hit YouTube and you will find interviews where each Beatles member describe the impact it had, especially for Paul since he had the main idea for the Sgt Pepper concept. It raised the standard for the time and made the Beatles set their bar even higher.

You may not have a great opinion of the album but Pet Sounds was a seminal event in '60s music.

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1. I personally like the Beach Boys music. However it is NOT and has NEVER BEEN Rock-N-Roll.

So Chuck Berry isn't rock and roll? Because the Beach Boys were criticized by Chuck for copying his style.

5. All musicians are influenced by other bands, but it is not right to say that the Beatles had some kind of contest with the BBs.

You are completely wrong.

The Beach Boys and Lennon/McCartney were totally aware of each other (and admiring of each other as well as competitive).

"It's (Pet Sounds) very cleverly done ... so we were inspired by it and nicked a few ideas."[30]- Paul McCartney


"Without Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper never would have happened ... Pepper was an attempt to equal Pet Sounds."- George Martin


True surf music came from people like Dick Dale

The Beach Boys didn't play "surf music". They played rock n' roll music about surfing and other stuff.

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