Tonight's show was just piling on the proof Bernadette is a mean, petty, vengeful, manipulative, selfish person.
Don't hate on contrarians
Yes, she was petty and manipulative. But at the same time Penny shouldn't have told anyone if Bernadette didn't want it known. That was not her news to announce.
shareLetting the news slip was a mistake. Penny's only crime was denying it at first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx7UDfiNqg4
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otter68 wrote:
Tonight's show was just piling on the proof Bernadette is a mean, petty, vengeful, manipulative, selfish person.Do you mean the way that she apologized for her behavior?Yes, she was horrid in doing that. Unforgivable.You just can't trust anyone who will admit that they're wrong. share
No, when she admitted she did the same thing to someone else she thought someone did to her and was not apologetic for it.
When she plotted revenge against the person by trying to destroy her career.
When she barked at Amy to go get her fries and a chocolate shake.
THAT. One apology doesn't make up for that!
Don't hate on contrarians
It was definitely karma coming back to bite her in the ass. Thankfully, she did apologize to Penny. A little mean to Amy, but no adult should eat healthy food at a McDonald's.
shareA little mean to Amy, but no adult should eat healthy food at a McDonald's.A little mean? If I were Amy I'd never bother to bring her food again. When someone tries to do you a favor, I think you you should say thank you, accept that you got something even if it wasn't just what you wanted, and not scream at them and chase them out of the room. Bernie can be very sweet, and she can be very funny. But I found her neither in that case. share
A little mean? If I were Amy I'd never bother to bring her food again. When someone tries to do you a favor, I think you you should say thank you, accept that you got something even if it wasn't just what you wanted, and not scream at them and chase them out of the room.
otter68 wrote:
So many people seem to bend over backwards to make excuses for Bernadette!Just as long as you understand that I am not making excuses for Bernadette. I fully acknowledge the nasty side of her personality, but the good side of her personality is vastly more important to me.Hate on contrarians. They are just trolls. share
OK, did either you or Otter see the big I had at the end of that line???
You know you're taking things way too seriously when ***I*** have to tell you to lighten up.
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"After 2 yrs in Washington, I long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood."---Fred Thompson
If anybody's been "flanderized", it's her. She's a good little trooper filling a plot point though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxEJOi6GtA
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She is a non character. She add nothing to the show.
shareTonight's show was just piling on the proof Bernadette is a mean, petty, vengeful, manipulative, selfish person.
she does pull off the wolf in sheep's clothing bit, and I can understand some people seeing her as a character you love to hate, but I can't stand Bernadette, probably because she does try to come across as sweet but is just so mean on the inside, but instead of playing the villain, the show still tries to make her just one of the gang.
Yes, they are all selfish and manipulative in their way, but none are as mean as Bernadette: Wanting to sneak onto a co-worker's computer and google "how to become a prostitute."
Don't hate on contrarians
she does pull off the wolf in sheep's clothing bit, and I can understand some people seeing her as a character you love to hate, but I can't stand Bernadette, probably because she does try to come across as sweet but is just so mean on the inside, but instead of playing the villain, the show still tries to make her just one of the gang.
Yes, they are all selfish and manipulative in their way, but none are as mean as Bernadette: Wanting to sneak onto a co-worker's computer and google "how to become a prostitute."
Trendrick wrote:
Yes, that was mean...but, still funny.Bernie is very funny, and some posters here tell us that is the only point of the sitcom.This problem comes up a lot in sitcoms where certain characteristics of a character's personality are routinely exaggerated, sometimes to extreme levels, for the sake of the comedy.The writers expect the audience to understand what is happening and to not judge the characters too much at their worst moments. The writers also expect the audience to be aware of a character's best moments and regard that as more important.If you make a list of Bernie's worst moments, you see a very different Bernie than if you make a list of her best moments. Her best moments are really great, and I think that is what Bernie "really" is.If someone refuses to acknowledge Bernie at her best, they are going to see a different Bernie than the rest of us.To avoid misunderstanding, I am not talking about Flanderization which is a long-term and usually permanent process. share
at least on their tenure quest, they didn't try to sabotage each other, just try to increase their own edge. It's one thing to brownnose; it's another to sabotage. And yes, it is not normal even in the business world to try to sabotage or harm a co-worker even if he/she is a competitor for a promotion or assignment.
Don't hate on contrarians
Thinking or talking about doing something mean is not the same as actually doing it - if it were, then we are all scumbags who should be fired or behind bars.
As Bernadette explained in this very episode, being a petite woman with a squeaky little voice means she has to step up her game to command respect and show she means business. Of course, it is exaggerated for comedic effect, but one can see her point.
"Two gin and Frescas"
"Shaken, not ridiculed"
so stepping up her game means sabotaging co-workers? And what excuse is there for her to angrily boss Amy around after Amy was kind enough to bring her a meal at work? That has nothing to do with being taken seriously at work or any other place.
It's going to be a season of Bernadette going off then saying "it's the pregnancy."
Don't hate on contrarians
Of course, it is exaggerated for comedic effect
otter68 wrote:
probably because she does try to come across as sweetYes, there is some of that.
but is just so mean on the inside,There is definitely a nasty streak there.But Bernie is basically a very sweet person, and this comes out routinely in relation to Howard. I don't "love to hate her." I just love her although I might not want to work with her. I certainly wouldn't want to play a game with her.I have to wonder if Bernie reminds you of someone. Perhaps your mother. share
Yes, they are all selfish and manipulative in their way, but none are as mean as Bernadette: Wanting to sneak onto a co-worker's computer and google "how to become a prostitute."
I swear Bernadette could stab 4 random people for no reason, but if she apologized to one of them, her supporters would use that to say she's a good person.
Don't hate on contrarians
What's wild to me is people constantly obsessing about flaws and traits of a character that are there specifically for the humor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUrJ_el-SM
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I say she's a terrible person.
Then people swoop in to defend her and say she's not despite the overwhelming evidence.
She's like JR Ewing on Dallas. She is not a nice person.
If being an awful person is what makes her character funny, so be it, but let's stop trying to deny she's a mean person and ugly on the inside. She would fit right in with George Costanza or Archie Bunker
Don't hate on contrarians
I say she's a terrible person.You post it nonstop. And your "overwhelming" evidence is not really convincing given the genre.
Then people swoop in to defend her and say she's not despite the overwhelming evidence.
If being an awful person is what makes her character funny, so be it, but let's stop trying to deny she's a mean person and ugly on the inside.Or you could perhaps not take a sitcom quite so seriously. She's supposed to be fundamentally likable. They just amp up the dichotomy for the funny.
that's where I disagree. Either they are not writing her to be likable or they fail at it as she is mean far too often to be likable. Last night's episode is a perfect example: mean to co-worker, mean to Amy, apologize to Penny after getting mad at her for a mistake. 2/3 mean 1/3 nice.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
😄 I don't think it's based on specific ratios. I don't know what to tell you if you honestly think they're writing her to be an actual villain. Her "joke", whether they overplay it or not, depends on her being anything but actually harmless within a harmless-looking package.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO5R_OSZvoc
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I don't think they are writing her to be a villain as much as what you said, they are overplaying her meanness, and when you weigh her mean actions vs her nice actions, the scales tip towards the mean.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
Then she's a sympathetic character taking one for the comedy team. Purposely made to look ridiculous just like the rest of them, each with their own slant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuDoYhQI2o
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otter68 wrote:
when you weigh her mean actions vs her nice actions, the scales tip towards the mean.No, that is just your bizarre judgment.Some people judge Penny the same way and it is equally bizarre.Hate on contrarians. "Contrarian" is just a euphemism for a troll. share
Bingo!
"Two gin and Frescas"
"Shaken, not ridiculed"
otter68 wrote:
or they fail at it as she is mean far too often to be likable.They fail for you, but a lot of us like her because we admire what is good about her.You can say the same thing about Penny. Certainly they are writing her to be likable, but some people dislike her.When writers try to do something that isn't just black and white, there will always be people who just don't get it.Hate on contrarians. They are really just trolls. share
otter68 wrote:
I say she's a terrible person.You seem to be incapable of looking at more than one aspect of a person's character.If you worked with Bernie, I could understand you hating her, but you have seen the other side of her personality, and you still hate her.I wonder if you are like that in real life? share
yes, she has two sides. I'm sure many horrible people have moments of niceness, but it doesn't mean they aren't still horrible people.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
yes, she has two sides. I'm sure many horrible people have moments of niceness, but it doesn't mean they aren't still horrible people.
jaynekranc wrote:
Hitler was extremely kind, considerate and generous to Eva Braun, her parents, and her sisters. He was ccertainly a horrible person.Yes, and he put up with an amazing amount of crap from his secretaries.Are you comparing Bernie to Hitler? If not, what is your point?The thing about Bernie is that there is a whole side to her character that many people don't have. She is willing to acknowledge that she is wrong and she is willing to compromise in a way that quite a few people aren't.She thinks about things and changes her mind. Not something that you can count on. share
Are you comparing Bernie to Hitler? If not, what is your point?
jaynekranc wrote:
Certainly not. It was just an example.An example of what in terms of this discussion? I find your using that example in this discussion extremely offensive.
As I explained to another poster, the way someone feels about her, or anyone else for that matter, is colored by their own personal experiences.Yes.
Just because you like someone doesn't mean everyone else has to.No.
Just because you dislike someone doesn't mean everyone else has to. You don't have the other person's experience, so you can't understand why they feel they way they do. But their feelings are very real to them and they are entitled to feel how they wish.Yes.
Just because you see another side clearly doesn't mean anyone else has to.I certainly have a good reason to complain when someone complains as much as the semi aquatic weasel does about Bernie because he refuses to see the other side of her character.
You can't expect other people to see things as you do because no one else can look at those things the way you do.I believe that there is a reality here in regard to Bernie — and Penny and the others — that goes beyond one's subjective likes and dislikes. It is the disregard for what is actually happening in the program that I am complaining about and I am disgusted by.I'm not saying that anyone has to like Bernie — or Penny — but when someone systematically refuses to acknowledge the good aspects of their characters, I am certainly going to complain that they are being dishonest.If you are going to say that Bernie's bitchy moments are more important to you than her willingness to compromise with Howard and to admit that she is wrong, then I think that your judgment is weird, but I'm not going to argue with you.If you think that Penny's flirting and using sex is so bad that it would be more important to you that her extreme good nature, then I think your judgment is again weird, but I'm not going to argue with you.If you do think that, I think you have your priorities ass backwards, but if you do that in real life, that is your problem and I don't care.The fundamental disagreement is that you think all "opinions" are equally valid because they are how someone "feels." I do not agree. You are entitled to feel whatever you want to, but don't confuse how you feel with reality. A lot of "opinions" are just plain crap. They do not become less crappy because they cause someone to feel a certain way. share
you keep bringing up that willingness to compromise with Howard on his going to space as proof she's not a horrible person.
Did she compromise with him on their finances when he spent money on a 3D printer? He makes one financial gaffe, and she puts him on an allowance and takes control of all the finances.
Yes, she compromised with Howard on his going to space. Yes in Monday's episode, she apologized to Penny, but that doesn't make up for her trying to ruin a co-worker's career or the way she went off on Amy who did something nice for her.
An ice storm can help bring down dead branches, but that doesn't make up for the power outages and ice covered roads.
A few examples of Bernadette being nice doesn't make up for her being mean so often, whether it's to Stuart, Leonard, Amy, or Howard.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
otter68 wrote:
you keep bringing up that willingness to compromise with Howard on his going to space as proof she's not a horrible person.That is just one of a number of examples of Bernie thinking about something, taking Howard's feelings into account, and accommodating them. She also gets over being angry very quickly. If you think that is the only example of Bernie behaving in an admirable way, you have not been paying enough attention to the series to comment on it.
Did she compromise with him on their finances when he spent money on a 3D printer? He makes one financial gaffe, and she puts him on an allowance and takes control of all the finances.Duh, no. She has her priorities and she is not a fool.
A few examples of Bernadette being nice doesn't make up for her being mean so often, whether it's to Stuart, Leonard, Amy, or Howard.I've told you before that you are completely clueless about what I'm saying, and I will tell you again. You are completely clueless about what I am saying. You keep attributing to me things that I have not said.I suggest that in the future you quote exactly what I have said in a post, and I will respond to that.Hate on contrarians. They have serious reading comprehension problems, at best. share
what you are saying is that Bernadette on the whole is not a horrible person.
I'm saying is that on the whole, Bernadette is a horrible person whose meanness outweighs her niceness
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
otter68 wrote:
what you are saying is that Bernadette on the whole is not a horrible person.You are just confirming that you are completely clueless about what I've been saying all along.Bernadette regularly exhibits positive and important personality traits that are vastly more important than how often someone is nice or not nice. They are particularly critical personality traits in a relationship. You keep evaluating Bernie as if she were a casual acquaintance, whereas in fact, we know a lot about her, and we have seen her behavior in different circumstances. You just ignore the parts that don't show her as a bitch.With Bernie, you know what you've got. The really dangerous ones are the ones who are nice all the time, until they surprise you.You don't seem to pay much attention to what actually happens in the show. You just cherry pick things to hate.Hate on contrarians because all they do is hate. share
I'm not ignoring the good things she does; I'm saying they don't outweigh the bad things she does.
YOU ignore all the mean things she does in order to portray her as a positive person because she compromised with Howard once.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
otter68 wrote:
I'm saying they don't outweigh the bad things she does.Dear god, you are thick. I am not weighing the good things that she does and the bad things.I gather this is just something you will never be able to understand.
YOU ignore all the mean things she doesThat is flatly untrue. I do not ignore them at all. I am as aware of them as you are although I think you take somethings seriously that I don't.
In order to portray her as a positive person because she compromised with Howard once.Again that is flatly untrue. Why do you keep lying about that?Did you not read what I wrote before or did you not understand it?Bernadette regularly exhibits positive and important personality traits that are vastly more important than how often someone is nice or not nice. Hate on contrarians even though they really aren't worth the effort. share
Bernadette regularly exhibits positive and important personality traits that are vastly more important than how often someone is nice or not nice.
otter68 wrote:
I think Bernadette regularly exhibits mean and petty personality traits that outweigh the positive traits she occasionally displays,The positive traits have to with being willing to admit that she's wrong and to think about things and change her mind when necessary.I understand these are not things that are important to you, or that you regard as important in general. Probably not even things that you recognize as virtues.Maybe you don't even recognize that they exist.That is your problem.
If you stab three people, apologizing to one doesn't make up for stabbing all three.I have never said anything about "making up for something." You keep saying that, but it is not responsive to what I am saying.You really just don't understand what I'm saying, and I am tired of Hate on contrarians. They certainly won't pay attention anything else. share
Did she admit she was wrong for how she treated Leonard on their scavenger hunt?
Did she apologize for making fun of coworker with disabilities or the son of a coworker?
Did she apologize to Stuart for calling him a possum?
Did she fess up to Howard about ruining his comic?
Did she apologize to Amy or getting mad at her over the happy meal or ordering her to get more food?
again, you use ONE example of her being able to admit she is wrong and use it to show she's not a mean, petty, vindictive person.
It's like you're in an abusive relationship with her and refuse to see how mean she is because you love her.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
otter68: wrote
again, you use ONE example of her being able to admit she is wrong and use it to show she's not a mean, petty, vindictive person.Again, you are lying when you claim that is what I am saying.
It's like you're in an abusive relationship with her and refuse to see how mean she is because you love her.Oh be serious. But what is serious is that Howard is extremely lucky to have a woman like her that he can trust to be reasonable and forgiving and to take his feelings into account.Hate on contrarians because they are liars. share
Positive people don't plot to cry on the stand to win a lawsuit in my opinion. They either have a case or they don't. That threat reeked of blackmail.
sharejaynekranc wrote:
Positive people don't plot to cry on the stand to win a lawsuit in my opinion.Whatever may be the case in the real world, this is a comedy, and all of these people are far from perfect. That is why they are funny.
That threat reeked of blackmail.That is why the line was funny.I think most people found the line funny, but because you don't, you dump on the character. Can't you at least understand the writers are trying to be funny even if they don't succeed with you? share
it's funny because she's blackmail and perjury are just part of Bernadette's moral compass. She's a mean person, and her meanness and manipulation are played for laughs.
So do you admit the writers made her mean and conniving for laughs?
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
otter68 wrote:
So do you admit the writers made her mean and conniving for laughs?All of the characters have serious flaws; none of the characters are meant to be seen as villains the way you see Bernie.Yes, their flaws are played for laughs, sometimes rather nervous laughs, but they are funny. Sometimes they do cross a line, and it is no longer funny, but that is true for all of them. That a character is outrageous in some way is the basis for much of the humor in BBT. I believe that is true of most sitcoms.Sheldon is not just Sheldon at his worst. Penny is not just Penny at her worst. Amy is not just Amy at her worst. Howard is not just Howard at his worst. Leonard comes off the best, but he is still routinely ridiculous.For some reason you take Bernie at her worst as all that there is. That is not the case, and that you see it that way is your problem.Bernie can certainly be mean, but for many of us, that highlights just how good she is at her best. If Bernie were actually the way that you see her, she wouldn't be funny at all.Do you think the writers intend her to be the sort of villain that you see her as? Do you think the writers intend her to be as unlikable as you see her? You have the right to interpret her character any way that you want to, but do you understand that was not the writers intention?You persist in saying how awful Bernie is in thread after thread, and you do this by cherry picking evidence and ignoring everything it doesn't fit in with your view. You just don't get it about Bernie. I'm sure there are a lot of things you will just never understand.Hate on contrarians. They frequently don't understand things that are not that hard to understand. share
you refuse to acknowledge Bernadette's bad outweighs her good. You accuse me of cherry picking, but you are the worst as you can only point to a select few instances of "good Bernie," while I can glean many examples of "bad Bernie." At her worst, she's more bad than she is good at her best.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
otter68 wrote:
you refuse to acknowledge Bernadette's bad outweighs her good. You accuse me of cherry picking, but you are the worst as you can only point to a select few instances of "good Bernie," while I can glean many examples of "bad Bernie." At her worst, she's more bad than she is good at her best.Once again, you demonstrate in every sentence that you don't understand what I am saying. Whether this is because you are deliberately refusing to understand, or you just aren't very bright, I don't know.I am tired of trying to explain something that I think is quite simple to you. I'm tired of your lying about what I am saying.If you ever acknowledge what I'm actually saying and demonstrate that you understand it, then we can talk about it.Hate on contrarians because they just refuse to understand what you are saying. share
OMG dude, it's not that serious. What about Penny admitting that she and a group of her goons in high school surrounded a girl, threw her retainer in the toilet, and then put it back in her mouth? And we are supposed to believe she never realized she was a bully?
"Two gin and Frescas"
"Shaken, not ridiculed"
Penny was a bully.
Bernadette is a bully.
"Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." J.J. Rousseau
Bernadette is struggling with her superpowers.
https://youtu.be/gLF1EvDcca8?t=5
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An example of what in terms of this discussion? I find your using that example in this discussion extremely offensive
The fundamental disagreement is that you think all "opinions" are equally valid because they are how someone "feels." I do not agree. You are entitled to feel whatever you want to, but don't confuse how you feel with reality.
jaynekranc wrote:
I couldn't care less what you think if I tried.So you are not at all ashamed of using that example in this discussion? Okay.
Don't confuse your reality with anyone else's reality.I understand there is an element of truth to that, but there is a reality behind all the subjective opinions, and some statements about that reality are simply wrong.That is particularly true when you're talking about a work of fiction. Unlike real life, we all know everything that there is to know about this story. We can argue about what the reality is, but some parts of the reality are so obvious that you cannot just ignore them because you want to. share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESA7yu1x4UM
Here's the thing about Hitler, he's judged very harshly by history. But he did kill Hitler.
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Hitler was extremely kind, considerate and generous to Eva Braun, her parents, and her sisters. He was ccertainly a horrible person.
What is or isn't horrible depends on WHO is doing the looking.
And Sheldon is such a cutie pie!
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