MovieChat Forums > Lions for Lambs (2007) Discussion > Why this is not liberal anything.

Why this is not liberal anything.


The film is written as a message of free will in the midst of crisis in the backdrop of our political and military reality. Viewed from this point of view , the film is not even anti war , but simply an essay about choices. Given the volatile political matter however , most viewers will not see it this way , perhaps by their choice and underlying anger. Instead , the inevitable right vs left will surface.

However , if you assume that Irving is right , Doc is a hybrid , Kid is left,Janine is left and The two soldier kids are right wing, you begin to notice anomalies in the liberal theory For instance :

Yes , the actual events of the film support the statement of the kid that "political science is not about how to make anything better , but how to win". This is proven by Irving's character. Yes the war has been tough and misjudged.Yes Irving ultimately is just bs'ing Janine to use her to get to the white house. The events and plot points support this. So the moral victory belongs to the left wing. But the quality of each side's arguments is a different story. An entirely different picture.

In this film , the right wing offers the best arguments and what is most important , the best counter arguments. Irving's arguments were logical , reasonable and very well laid out , almost a suprise after Janine's questions(questions that come from every american) The only way we know that he's mostly full of bs is due to the events that unfold and due to the fact that we know the war hasn't worked out. But his arguments sound REASONABLE compared to Janine's. He is reasonable when he talks about small units that you almost buy into it, until you see what happens. He gets so successful with his reasoning that at one point he makes Janine question her own network with the whole windsock thing. And he's probably right.
Then we move to the doc and the situation is diametrically reversed. The kid's arguments are , save for his statement on winning , a lot weaker than the Doc's. The only ridiculous argument of the Doc was that benz thing about the roads becoming third world. The doc is definately more right wing on the matter. A liberal would probably go for enjoying himself , which is supported by the kid's initial "you're gonna blame me for wanting to enjoy life because i'm smart enough to?"

Then we have the two right wing soldier kids (no liberal would do such a thing). At the dinner , those guys actually deliver smashing arguments that almost convince the viewer. They utilize pathos and ethos and tap into the underlying desire of America to step up and do the work. Again , Doc , this time on the liberal side since he blatantly accuses the political brass of incompetency and states that the war is not worth the effort , does NOT manage to deliver any powerful arguments. His reasoning is dealt with easily by the kids and that's why at one poiint when he throws his best arguments and loses , he says "he's doing a lot of talking for both of you" The quality of argument makes for an overwhelming victory for the right wing. But the events of the film and our reality make for left wing victory. Forget about that nonsense of the helicopter jump , this isn't Rambo. The film is not liberal , nor conservative. It is a perfect hybrid.

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A very well articulated and insightful essay. You seem to have understood the movie very well.
But I do not understand the part with ""he's doing a lot of talking for both of you" ". Who is "he"?

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