Ugh, spare me the condescension and lessons on neo-capitalism and greed as if America is the only one who possesses these types of companies. I'm sure Ayten wouldn't wear a shirt with Siemens on it because "it's German", right? If she wanted to criticize Nike, fine, but she specifically states it's "an American" representation, not some evil multinational. It's simply lazy self-righteousness I can't stand and the three responses following me (who seem to think they are enlightening me in something) fell for it. Ayten is the pretentious type who would rail against an American for Bush's policies, stereotypically thinking 300 million Yanks were in full agreement.
Otherwise, people like Ayten are part of the problem, not people to be admired. She narrow mindedly pursued her goals without regards for others in order to satisfy her egotistical and rigid belief system. Along the way, as is usual for those of a radical bent, she damages those within her circle than actually provides change. People like Ayten don't change the world, they make their causes more difficult to attain. If you want someone to admire who made real sacrifices of themselves and still effectively advanced their cause, then look at Martin Luther King, Jr. or Gandhi.
Like I said, I may implicitly agree with the aims of people lke Ayten or, say, The Weather Underground, but I completely oppose their self-righteous, dangerous and ineffective methods.
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RottenJonny
13 years ago
"The point was that she used a sweeping and stereotypical generalization of an entire nation in a pretentious way..."
I think that's exactly what you did with your opening post.
As far as i can remember this film has nothing to do with America. Surely there are better examples in other films that you can highlight and use their message boards for a better debate.
Anyway, sorry i didn't enlighten you. It's 'cos i think you've over-reacted and subverted the main messages of the film by starting this thread. And in a really boring way too.
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estratton422
13 years ago
I see the point flew right over your head. The point was that these two, supposedly, tolerant and open-minded individuals decided to arbitrarily and narow-mindedly condemn an entire country when the same disservice could be easily done to them.
As for your own self-righteousness and commentary on my "boring" message, my post seems to be interesting enough for you to make two comments on it. So, either you simply feel the need to say how much smarter you are than me or lying.
Otherwise, I very much DO find it interesting that these two individuals are less principled and benevolent than they seem (to themselves) or by those rabidly defending them here. The whole notion about the shirt is that is a moment of revelation to their vacuous morality that allows for no other world view other than their own.
It's quite a bit deeper than you are either unwilling or unable to see and most definitely not boring.
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RottenJonny
13 years ago
Yup, still boring!
I keep coming back because i enjoy your opening post so much. I find it funnier each time - the bit about reminding people about Nazi Germany and all that.
Perhaps you have a point. But you seem to be getting a bit worked up over a matter that you yourself refer to as (trivial).
I just didn't see it as a slight against America. It was a simple 10 second section that informed us of a characters political views, not some anti-American conspiracy.
I'm having a dinner party next week. Would you like to come?
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estratton422
13 years ago
You're still failing to see the point beyond a simple throw-away line. Particularly in movies with depth as this one, subtleties are always the key and reveal so much. Once again, it's not the connection to Nazi Germany or the Armenian genocide, but the nature of the people involved in the commentary. There are other examples, but this scene demostrates the epitome of their character. This meaning they are principled, yes, but moreso self-righteous, doggedly dogmatic and hypocritical, like many radical activists and sympathizers.
It's too bad you are so unwilling to explore the theme, for whatever reason, but there's certainly a legitimate point and character examination I expressed. Personally, I think you want to say it's boring in order not to concede that I may have something here, although, if your dinner party is anywhere near Nashville, Tennessee, I'll be happy to elaborate further.
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RottenJonny
13 years ago
Yeah, i agree with you. I agree with your invention, your grand scheme of things - this thematic discovery that characters tend to have a bit of depth.
I don't mean to cause a fuss but you have deviated a lot in a few short posts.
Oh, and this film has nothing to do with America.
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estratton422
13 years ago
Deviated, no. Expanded upon my answer, yes. And, I never said this film was about America, I have no idea where you got this idea. Her line about America was revealing, howerver, I have repeatedly said. My point about it revealing the character of Ayten I find so disatasteful really isn't that difficult.
I do find it interesting that you've called my post "boring" and not wanting to cause a "fuss", yet you keep responding. Sort of contradictory, don't you think?
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