THE SHOES??????


I feel as if I almost get most of this movie, the self-loathing, the sexually and emotionally drive flagellation, the females being closer to nature, and nature being evil and so on.

BUT

I'm still lost on the concept of the flippin' shoes!!
She was putting them on wrong on purpose, that's a given, but for what purpose?
Was she mutilating him to get back at men?
Did she hate her child?
Was she filling the role as the evil woman?
Was there no reason?

If anyone else has any insight on this please let me know, I am at a loss.

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Personally i think it was to inflict pain on the son


http://www.filmquarterly.org/2009/12/antichrist-a-discussion/

"..it becomes clear that for all her play-acting at his clumsy therapeutic games, the initial scene had been set in motion by her at least a year before: the teddy bear tied to the helium balloon tantalizing Nic to reach for it, the baby monitor on silent, the reversed shoes, the windows opening twice to let in the acorns and let out her son. Antichrist is a fascinated yet horrified disquisition on the ambiguity of witchcraft, a set of spells and strange incantations not unlike those practiced by the filmmaker himself.

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I have not seen the film... but perhaps wearing shoes is seen as "conformity".

Notice that your feet sometimes mold to the form of your shoes (especially if you are a runner you may notice the difference between a new pair of shoes and those with hundreds of miles on them), and your feet also "take you where you are going" in life.

I think it could be seen as a metaphor for "parental upbringing", like being raised with "a moral compass", good character & manners, also the "religion" of beliefs and it's related rules that parents subscribe to and raise their children in. (religious beliefs could be Christian-based or Anti-Christ-based, yet the devil always perverts the truth to lead souls astray)

Perhaps putting the shoes on the wrong feet is a perverse twist or anti/conformity to nature, as if she is trying to force her son into something different than what would naturally be good for him i.e. shoes that fit, Left & Right on the proper feet and in the correct direction.

My premise is that she is a perverse being, perhaps the antichrist character, and she is perverting the most wonderful gift God has given us "self-less giving agape love in sexual union" with "objectified self-seeking lust" -- the original sin, the temptation, the "apple" in the garden of Eden -- after which Adam and Eve "realized they were naked, and ashamed, covered themselves".

Sex/love union as God/nature intended it multiplies agape love into a child
Perverted pleasure seeking Lust ignores/avoids the consequences of offspring

She ignores her child which dies - not by accident, but by neglect - by purposefully ignoring the child so directly for the sake of lust. Just like a morning after pill or abortion, the child dies by lack of nurture in the womb or murderous expulsion from it. The grieving psychological consequences of from this extremely selfish act remain and haunt her, yet her only escape is back to lust.

Just a thought... coming from a Catholic / Theology of the Body perspective.

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I saw the wrong shoes as an alternative to her treatment of her husband, a means of restricting the child's ability to walk freely.

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Very good point... I found some similar support for this:

Rob White, filmquarterly:
"Oedipus is named for his “hurt foot” and perhaps her urge to hobble man and boy is some extreme protest against the trademark Freudian “complex”; as if she had decided—“enough of word games and mind games, let me make it for real.”"

From Nina Powers, filmquarterly:
"the “Me” at the top of the pyramid of fear, a narcissism so pronounced that even her own child can be accused of neglecting her (“Nic wasn’t there for me either”). Crippling his feet and attaching a lathe to her partner’s leg seem to be the only way she can keep the men around her from leaving"

As I see "Nic" written, it also looks similar to "Sin" reversed.

Some other fascinatingly insightful reviews:
http://www.filmquarterly.org/2009/12/antichrist-a-discussion/
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/05/a_devils_advocate_for_antichri.html

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Excellent, Insightful Analysis.
I agree with your take on her, thus the title...

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He got a doctors report about his sons autopsy & it was informed that his son had deformed feet, She must have been putting his shoes wrong for a long time causing his feet to be that way.

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As I look back on the film I realize that the mother was evil and psychologically dusturbed; she purposely crippled her son's feet and setup the situation where he could fall out of the window. The movie also reveals that she saw him on the ledge just before he fell but because she was nearing her orgasm, she did nothing to help him.

I don't see the father's role as evil at all. I believe he just didn't understand who he was married to or what she was capable of doing. I think they were elements of sexual compulsion on her part and obvious hatred of men. She also hated her need for her son and her husband. She crippled the son so he would always need her and drilled a hole in her husband's calf so she could attach a weight to hobble him.

The brutal "removal" of her own clitoris was a demonstration of her hatred of her own sexual compulsion. It's a jarring movie but does get it pathos across effectively. The odd animals and their behaviors serves to connect humans as just primal animal despite all our intelligence and our abilities to reason and comprehend ourselves and our environment!

"'Jesus, please save me from your followers!"

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'hatred of her own sexual compulsion'

this basically sums up the movie for me. ty

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"The movie also reveals that she saw him on the ledge just before he fell but because she was nearing her orgasm, she did nothing to help him."

No, not really. Everyone seems to forget that the scene we're shown at the beginning is really different from the one we're shown at the end of the movie. I mean, at the beginning it's pretty clear that she wasn't aware of anything bad happening due to the noise of the washing machine and so on, in fact, there isn't a single shot of her with her eyes open while she's nearing the orgasm.

As to the second version, that is, when she's recollecting what happened, she's shown looking directly at the window, however I don't think we should take it as a real enactment of what happened but as just a dramatization of how guilty she feels about everything, she's blaming herself for not being the perfect mother and for not preventing the accident.

Also I find that many people really believes this movie and Von Trier are mysoginistic, but I quite disagree, I think that Von Trier is pointing out how many women become the victims of their own mysoginia. In this sense Gainsbourg's character won't ever forgive herself for what happened since she's truly convinced of her evil nature.

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You just made me see this movie in a whole different way. I was just thinking she had been evil all the time but actually what you say makes a lot of sense.

Do you have an explanation for the teddy bear tied to the balloon, and for putting the baby monitor on silent though?

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agreed. which makes the act of deforming his feat an attempt to keep him from getting away from her because, in her mind, he will certainly want to get away from her because she is evil. She then applies this same psychotic logic to her husband when she drills the stone into his leg. They are both attempts at keeping things she loves from leaving her since she is convinced she deserves to be left because of her nature.
---
Using words to describe art is like using a screw driver to cut roast beef.

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Good points


"I crow's-nested all the way up here to scout-about the ravine 'cause you Gerried the rendezvous"

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I sat here nodding and nodding as I read this, dave. It's exactly how I feel, as well.

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I cannot disagree with you, and in that, I question the drawings and books that he discovered up in the attic. What were they all about? It was apparent that someone quite lucid became insane after writing in their diary over a period of time. Satan was at the top of the pyramid also. Was SHE the antichrist?

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Actually, I think it was to keep him from wandering away and leaving her so easily. It's really quick, but she mentions that during the previous visit to Eden, the boy kept wandering away. The pictures He finds of his son are all from the previous visit. I think She began to switch the boy's shoes as a method of curbing his activity. The guilt led to a downward spiral for her, as she saw how easily She could slip into doing something potentially harmful to her child.

Just my thought, though.

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What struck me is how the x-ray of the child's foot looked more like that of an animal. Almost like cloven hooves...

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There are some REALLY astute observations in this thread but I'd just like to point out one more small layer - the father didn't realise that his wife had been damaging his son's feet until the boy was already dead. I believe it's a deliberate action on the part of Lars Von Trier that displays how oblivious the father was - not wilfully so - but perhaps irresponsibly, his ignorance being a form of neglecting reality.

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Very good point. It goes back to his wife mentioning how distant he was. She was aware of her troubled nature, but she also may have been hinting that he was at fault for not being more aware of what his wife was doing to his son.

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[deleted]

This might come off as weird, but just hear me out: I think the shoes thing was a way for her to make sure Nic wasn't leaving her.

We're dealing with a very depressed character, so we have to think in context of this depression. She obviously is very afraid of people leaving her (which she lampshades a few times during the film), and putting the shoes on the wrong feet was a subconscious way for her to keep him close to her, as walking would be very painful, if not impossible (yes, I might be thinking way too simple and it does sound a bit lame, but bear with me).

She even states "Nic wasn't there for me either." in the film, which is a desperate attempt at self-pity and trying to make sense of her situation. This all makes sense in the mind of someone who is suffering from extreme depression.

So, in short: The shoes are a way for her to prevent him from leaving, because she's scared to death of being left alone.

I also would like to add (and this just occurred to me while typing) that towards the end of the film, she completely loses it when she thinks He is leaving (this explains her torturing him and, in an act of reckless self-defense, him torturing her). This further explains her intense fear of being left alone, which ultimately leads to her downfall.

All in all, the entire film is about the fear of being left alone and the realization that people find it hard to get along with very depressed people.

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Wow, I love this interpretation. Really interesting.

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I think the only good thing about this movie is that it makes you think and ask questions. I assume she was putting the shoes on wrong because she was mentally ill from the start and wanted to harm her child. There's probly a ton of different ways to interpret it. This was a very clever movie, but stretched out way too long. I went into it expecting some outrageous psychedelic horror movie based on what I'd heard and the cover, but instead I got an extremely quiet, washed out (visually) art house film. I wonder if I would have enjoyed it more if it had been a book.

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