al-Qaeda make this?


I understand the liberals in Hollywood that rush to make movies about every story that disgraces the military, but this was so over the top I thought bin Laden Productions was behind it. Very revolting, as if the real story wasn't anti-American enough they had to spice it up to extremes.

I really don't question anyone's Patriotism but I really question the Patriotism of those that made this movie and those that enjoyed it. I bet you all enjoy the videos of IEDs going off as well.

reply

Your inability to grasp the entire picture of situations is very sad, but unfortunately very common.

reply

You are so smart and insightful.

No wait. I meant the opposite.


http://brookswashere.ytmnd.com/

reply

Stalker-

I think you need to watch the film again. It's not anti-American in the least. It offers criticism of the operations in Iraq, pointing out some mistakes which have lead to terrible situations like the massacre in Haditha. These criticisms are valid and not unpatriotic. The film is certainly not sympathetic to the terrorists (I doubt bin Laden would approve of the film's laying bare the manipulations and cruelty the insurgents use- remember how the families advised the Sheik of the bomb, only to be told 'leave it to God'? Then surprise surprise it's the Sheik using footage of the resulting massacre to recruit?), nor is it unsympathetic to the American soldiers.

The soldiers, particularly Cpl Ramirez (who gets the most focus of that group), were often depicted sympathetically- as young men thrown into a messy war who struggle to understand and engage with their new environment. Ramirez had several heartbreaking moments- when he talks about feeling unsupported by the marines, how this is his third TD in Iraq and he's only 20, his nightmares and difficulty coping with the horrors of war. We see the soldiers laughing and talking with locals (in the video store), goofing off with each other, going through training (another heartbreaking reminder of their innocence in war, all the naive mistakes they make in the training), then getting psyched up to do their dangerous job (which Ramirez describes as simply 'staying alive until we get back'). Certainly they're unsympathetic in the moment they gun down innocents, but the film carefully lays out their backstories, and continues to follow them after, so that we see both sides.

The terrorists shown in the movie are certainly not shown in sympathetic light. The young man never explains his rationale for joining the insurgency; the film (and the viewer) certainly doesn't side with him. The older man makes a valid point about the disbanding of the Iraqi army having been an insult which spurred him to join the insurgency (it's an acknowledged fact that disbanding the army did cause many ex-soldiers to join the insurgents), however, his character is still never depicted as a man we should root for. He seems broken, a man lost and without purpose, and when he sees what he has actually done he is shattered by the horror and stupidity of it.

The Iraqi civillians naturally garner a lot of sympathy as the poor souls caught in a lose-lose situation. Terrorized by the insurgents (who they refer to as 'terrorists'- not 'fighters' or any sympathetic label) and afraid of the Americans, they just try to lay low and (as one character says) not live their lives ruled by fear because of the terrorists (the insurgents) around them.

'Battle for Haditha' is a film trying to show the complexities of the war in Iraq, and the mistakes that lead to the massacre. You have the marine command so distanced from the fighting that they have no idea it's innocent families, children, being killed, and telling their soldiers to keep up the good work clearing out the insurgency. You have a small group of marines, lead by Cpl Ramirez, so shattered by their experiences that they snap and make a horrible mistake. You have the insurgency manipulating the event to recruit more terrorists, and one of the terrorists (the older man) coming to realise the true nature of his actions & regret what he has done. You have families grieving the deaths of loved ones, soldiers trying to understand and come to terms with what they did & how they were capable of it (the ending, with Ramirez re-imagining the massacre to include his helping out a surviving child, both walking hand in hand into the light, is so beautiful and touching). At the end of the film you're left with a sense of just how lost some of these young soldiers are in the battle, distanced from command, in a hostile country they don't understand, fighting a war that has become impossibly complex. The film is simply recording tragedy, from all possible angles.

reply

kino vamp, wow, good post. You nailed it. Best post I've read in a while.

This is my sig:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwvvHsJoMe4

reply

Stalker - When making a comment its wise not to immediately contradict yourself..

.... And furthermore - I get the idea that you missed the entire point of this film.

reply

Yea, well i have 4 friends who were in Iraq, and they seem to think this is a pretty accurate depiction of what's going on in that country.

America isn't always doing the right thing, just because you say so. 1.5 million Innocent Iraqi's are dead, due to this invasion including over 400,000+ children.

Im a conservative, and the fact that you blame "liberals in hollywood" for this is a joke.

This is an american problem, not a left vs right one ;-)

reply

claytrainor- really well said. People are so quick to judge events in the light of their political affiliation rather than really considering the issues & making up their own minds. As far as Iraq goes, I'd say the responsibility isn't solely on Americans either- several nations have had a hand in this war. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic though about all the changes happening, both in the US administration & others. Maybe discussion & debate are gonna make a comeback! Then who knows what could be achieved...!

reply

WE WILL NEVER pul out of Afghanistan if that's what all u AlQueda lovers think will happen now we are pulling out of Iraq..l

reply

You mean too stupid to do it?

Pulling out of Iraq... It's a joke. What you (meaning the US) is trying to do is to make Iraq a kind of colony with marionette government.

My next comment is not to you, but more general.

From where I'm sitting (Europe) I can't understand why young men, and women, in the US enlist into the US army. After the WWII the US have fought quite a few wars and none of them was a defensive war in the real meaning of the word. They have all been wars of aggression. I don't understand people who enlist knowing that chances are good they will be sent somewhere abroad to kill people who just live in their own country. I understand fighting to protect ones country, to protect it's territorial integrity. But to be sent to another country and to kill its people to protect the imperialistic ambitions of ones own country? I guess many of the US soldiers are better than that and I wonder why do they do it? If I was to risk my life like that and kill others it would have to be a just war.

reply

[deleted]

Why did you post your text as a comment on my text? I have to admit that I do not see the direct connection. Was this just meant as a general comment?

But if you want my comment on your text, it's a typical turning an offer into the guilty party. A stretch. It's like saying "It's not a rapist who is guilty, it's the person who got raped."

reply

[deleted]

I can agree they were the victims, but they were the victims of the US politicians, nobody elses. They had no business being there with weapons killing people. And the Iraqis had no obligation to get out of the US marines way.

As for you thinking about the rape, it's the same logic as Talibans have. Best if women cover themseves from head to toe and do not leave home. Otherwise bad things might happen to them and it's their own fault. The same logic.

In both cases the logic is the same: the victim should get out of the way of a predator, otherwise it's the victims fault or at least both parties fault. As for me, I don't buy it, at least not in a human society. Sorry.

reply

Well, I'd say al Qaeda came out looking the worst in this film, and perhaps the US officers (remotely) in charge a close second.

It showed non-Iraqi zealots arming and exploiting local insurgents with little concern or sympathy for collateral damage or repercussions of the angry hornet's nest they stirred up. In fact they showed that sheik relishing the public relations coup they scored in the massacre/retaliation they triggered, dismissing them as "martyrs".

And whatever one thinks of the US in Iraq, it was the detached, jingo-istic decision makers (officers) issuing orders with grave consequences from a remote location without full awareness of the situation that seemed to be the other malignancy. Like, killing an innocent civilian just for holding a digging tool. And, the general who gave that very vague directive, "No more Marines die" leaving every subordinate to interpret what that was supposed to mean (leading eventually to a tremendous over-reaction that he later did not take responsibility for).

I feel for the many innocents in the wrong place at the wrong time, most especially for those people in that car near the kill zone. But,those Marines were also victims (pawns, scapegoats, bait), yes, even Cpl Ramirez (who probably SHOULD have seen a psychologist when he asked his LT).

reply