MovieChat Forums > Terrorstorm (2006) Discussion > Funny TerrorStorm Facts!

Funny TerrorStorm Facts!


I have a ton more but so far my favorite parts of TerrorStorm

Jones claims the tube bombings were to assure a win by Blair in the elections, I guess wacky Jones thinks everyone in the UK has a time machine.

The bombings occurred 2 months after national UK elections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2005)

And “national polls showed that [Blair’s] pro-war party was sure to lose” (lose what the elections has been won two months prior). It’s a bit beside the point, given that Labour had won the election, but here’s some polls from May 2005 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/polltracker/html/polltracker.stm.

Slightly in the lead in the opinion polls means 'sure to lose' in Terrorstorm world?






The former FreakyMonkeyFive,

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TERRORSTORM FUN FACT #2

Jones claims that the Number 30 bus was diverted from its normal route on 7/7 to imply government involvement. He ignores the fact it was diverted because road closures caused by the attack on one of the subway stations meant that it couldn't take its normal route.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5156844.stm):

Police had set up diversions around Euston because of the bombs on the underground, forcing Mr. Psaradakis to turn into Tavistock Square.

Mr. Psaradakis was the bus driver. So the whole, "This bus should never have been there" bit is nonsense.



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Alex Jones aim is not scientific or factual, it is political.
Alex Jones has a political agenda - and it dosent matter how much he has to lie and manipulate to achive that political goal.


But the conspiracy theorists will probably claim that the secret shadow government have faked or altered all the proof, websites, news-papers, busses and so on.

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They claim that in a BBC Radio 5 interview on July 7th, Peter Power admitted that his Visor Consulting firm: "was running a 1,000 person strong exercise which drilled the London Underground being bombed at the exact same locations, at the exact same times, as happened in real life."

The article goes on to claim that the Visor Consulting drill: "acts as a cover for the small compartamentalized government terrorists to carry out their operation without the larger security services becoming aware of what they're doing, and, more importantly, if they get caught during the attack or after with any incriminating evidence they can just claim that they were just taking part in the exercise."

The article gives the clear impression that up to 1,000 personnel were involved in a London drill -including field agents who were active in the London Underground and providing cover for those planting the bombs.

That couldn't be more wrong.

In fact, Power's consultancy firm was running a small "corporate wargame" drill for the management team of a British company with 1,000 employees. Here's the BBC transcript of the interview Power gave
POWER: "At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now."
Clearly, the figure of 1,000 refers to the size of the company whose managers were being drilled - and not to the number of participants in the drill.


Furthermore, any savvy investigator knows that these types of private-sector "risk management" drills never use field staff. Neither do these low-level corporate drills have active involvement of police or other security forces.

The London corporate drill was just a glorified administration seminar where managers get to use security buzzwords --while seated around an office table guessing how they would respond to loss of available staff for call centers, power outages, or travel restrictions, etc..

Bear in mind that Peter Power was doing a bit of hyping too, playing up the idea that his firm was so well attuned that it was running a terror drill about bombs at "precisely at the railway stations where it happened." But in a separate, simpering TV interview Power admits that their exercise also included mainline rail targets as well as the Underground. His firm runs these terror seminars frequently.

Anyway, any half-competent drill would predictably be based on attacks on central London Underground stations. Duuuh! Probably some of these overlapped with the actual targets.



KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Do you have any idea how much he's made off this cottage industry of his? I would be interested in getting a look at his returns for the last couple years.



"Questions, questions, questions, flooding into the mind of the concerned young person today" FZ

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He is no doubt making a killing off the weak minded. From the sure number of falsehoods in his so called research I expect he knows he selling snake oil.

But on with the TerrorStorm PhunPhacts.


Terrorstorm claims that the 7/7 “explosive devices” were “military-grade”. It does not say what it means by 'military grade', or provide any evidence for this claim. The best available evidence shows that the bombs were relatively crude 'home made' devices, and that the terrorists had a 'bomb factory' which they used to construct these devices [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_05_06_narrative.pdf],p.23.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Terrorstorm claims at about 22:15 that the #30 bus the bomb was on is the only bus that the police “take special control of” and redirect. This sounded odd, and checking with Transport for London shows it's wrong – all #30 buses (not just that one) were redirected because Euston Rd was closed, and the #30 bus route goes along Euston Rd.

Jones claims that the Number 30 bus was diverted from its normal route on 7/7. This is true, but what he ignores is that it was diverted because road closures caused by the attack on one of the subway stations meant that it couldn't take its normal route.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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MASTERSHAKESHUN WILL BE TELLING US NEXT THAT ALEX Jones' Dark Secrets: Inside the Bohemian Grove WAS PURE FICTION TOO, KEEP UP THE GOOD DEBUNKING WORK MATE, YOUR TRYING SO HARD!! YOU ALMOST CONVINCE ME EVERYTIME XX

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[deleted]

ALEX Jones' Dark Secrets: Inside the Bohemian Grove

Knightc6, This is the one the CT’ers won’t even bring up, I suffered though most of these just to debate and debunk but this one is a hoot, your buddies, beer, it works, the only one that was such a laugh riot it is painless.

(Many of Alex’s fans even accuse him of staging it, think Rosemary’s Baby meets Monty Python with a really low budget.)


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Terrorstorm claims it’s well know that if someone has a bomb you don’t shoot at them or get close to them. Well known to who? The International Association of Chiefs of Police recommends that suicide bombers can be confronted on occasion, and that those shooting them should aim not to hit the bomb


It's interesting when they bring up stuff like "it's a well known fact". Is it?

The only country I'm aware of that has extensive experience dealing with suicide bombers is Israel. They are the only country I know of that has developed successful tactics for dealing with suicide bombers. Are Israel's tactics REALLY a well known fact? Well, Alex Jones clearly doesn't know what they are. Guess what their tactics for dealing with a suicide bomber are?

1) Tackle the suspect
2) Pin them to the ground
3) Shoot them repeatedly in the head

What did the British police do?

1) Tackled the suspect
2) Pinned him to the ground
3) Shot him repeatedly in the head

Coincidence? I think not. After 9/11, Bali, and the Madrid bombings they started looking at how to deal with a suicide bombing - it was considered inevitable that London would be hit. They chose to use the tactics Israel had developed.




KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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I think you should copy and past much of this into where the Conspiracy theorists are.
Because you can look at this thread: they are hidding. They dont want to look at all the flaws of the conspiracy-films.
You have to trow these facts right in there face, under the "World Trade Center"-forum..... unles you already have done that.
Do it everytime someone mentions Alex Jones or his political-fictional-documentaries.

Conspiracy theorists are like Religious Zealots - they do not lie directly, but they manipulate with the tuth so much that there version of the world look very obvious.
If you debunk their lies, then they make up new ones.
They want to believe in conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy theories are a modern religion.

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You have to trow these facts right in there face, under the "World Trade Center"-forum..... unles you already have done that.

Click on my name and look where 99% of my posts have been for a year, like minds think the same.

Conspiracy theorists are like Religious Zealots - they do not lie directly, but they manipulate with the tuth so much that there version of the world look very obvious.
If you debunk their lies, then they make up new ones.
They want to believe in conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy theories are a modern religion.

And man, You got that right, at least it’s getting down to totally insanity, holographic planes and no real planes hit the WTC’s and nukes took down 1 & 2. They are fizzing out but they will never be totally gone. As you so well put it, its down to faith, science left the building months ago.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Oh mastershakeshun, as Arthur Schopenhauer once said all truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

I feel that you are heavily in the second stage of this process and i just want to give you a little cuddle because i know its difficult at stage two,

So i suggest something non 911 related like 'America: Freedom to Fascism' might be just what you need, x

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Nice bumpersticker to avoid debate.

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

TerrorStorm claims there are over 4million surveillance cameras in London. I’m not sure where they got that stat from. That seems too high, and Clive Norris estimates the cameras in the whole of the UK at 4.2million in total (http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/profile/story/0,,1801049,00.html).

Of course, Jones wouldn’t have been daft enough to take a UK-wide estimate and assume all these cameras are in London…would he?


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Of course its going to have some errors, this does not change the fact that large segments of it are true and need to be investigated. I doubt it has as many errors and innacuracies as the 9/11 cOmmission mind, and lets not even get into the lack of even a public inquiry into the 7/7 attacks. I mean, who really cares about what happened during the biggest terrorist attack on British soil anyway?! I suppose you think events like these don't deserve to be critically thought about, and have the facts questioned in order to ultimately reveal the truth. People should just forget about it and run and hide under there desks from those evil terrorists whilst letting the government do away with our human rights right? You see this happening in America, with the Patriot act's latest use against lawful citizens; the couple 'nuzzling' on a plane apparently constitutes terrorist activity these days and the guy getting fined $10,000 for saying the word bomb on a plane. Britain is certainly heading this way with attack-dog John Reid a cert for future PM and his track-record, the Queen's speech about new "terrorism" laws also shows this worrying trend. Films like these, despite their many debateable 'facts' are necessary in slowing down this trend towards tyranny. I'm not so sure about the 7/7 conspiracy theories, but there are undeniably many issues that need to be investigated and I don't see the harm in doing so. Anyway, thanks for some of that info as alot of what you say seems valid, though it is easy to see how Alex Jones could interpret them otherwise.

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Of course its going to have some errors, this does not change the fact that large segments of it are true and need to be investigated. I doubt it has as many errors and innacuracies as the 9/11 cOmmission mind,

So far I have found nothing factual that merits any debate. The 9/11 commission so far is solid as a rock (and where I do most of my debating). Now eroding civil liberties does concern me but that is a totally separate issue in my book. I would focus on that. By working in vague conspiracies that are easily debunked it distracts from the real issues and divides people into two camps where they should be united.

Respectfully

Shake


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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But it seems to me that the conspiracies go hand in hand with the erosion of civil liberties. The ones that seemingly want to erode our civil liberties; Blair, Reid (ugh ;s), Bush etc. could not achieve these things without 9/11 or 7/7 nor could we have gone into Iraq or Afhanistan.

Those that stood to gain from 9/11 and 7/7 were certainly not Muslims in their attempts to reclaim Palestine from Israeli occupation, or Bin Laden's alleged "jealousy of our freedom", I don't buy it. It was Silverstein (decided to "pull it") and the rest of the Neo-Cons who stood to gain. Specifically Silverstein having a few months earlier taken out multi billion dollar insurance policies (forget the exact figure) on all the towers, specifically against terrorist attack.

Regards to the 9/11 commissions solidity, I was under the impression they gave no clear explanation of why the shamefully forgotten Building 7 came down. It had no fires going down its lift shafts to weaken the steel frame, nor did a plane hit it. But I'm sure you have a plausable explanation for that, perhaps the fire WAS so hot and the damage from the two tower's collapse so extensive that it became the third steel framed building in history to collapse from fire when others have burned for days. Who knows, maybe I am a chronic dot connector but the whole thing stinks.

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so extensive that it became the third steel framed building in history to collapse from fire when others have burned for days.

Contrary to popular belief September 11, 2001 was not the first time a steel framed building collapsed due to fire. Though the examples below are not high rise buildings, they make the point that fire alone can collapse a steel structure.

The McCormick Center in Chicago and the Sight and Sound Theater in Pennsylvania are examples of steel structures collapsing. The theater was fire protected using drywall and spray on material. A high rise in Philly didn't collapse after a long fire but firefighters evacuated the building when a pancake structural collapse was considered likely. Other steel-framed buildings partially collapsed due fires one after only 20 minutes.

The steel framed McCormick Center was at the time the World's largest exhibition center. It like the WTC used long steel trusses to create a large open space without columns. Those trusses were unprotected but of course much of the WTC lost it's fire protection due to the impacts.

"As an example of the damaging effect of fire on steel, in 1967, the original heavy steel-constructed McCormick Place exhibition hall in Chicago collapsed only 30 minutes after the start of a small electrical fire."

http://www.wconline.com/CDA/Archive/24ae78779d768010Vgn
VCM100000f932a

[Note this article has several comments from engineers who back the
WTC collapse theory.]

"The unprotected steel roof trusses failed early on in the fire"

http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/mccormick_fire.html


The McCormick Place fire "is significant because it illustrates the fact that steel-frame buildings can collapse as a result of exposure to fire. This is true for all types of construction materials, not only steel." Wrote Robert Berhinig, associate manager of UL's Fire Protection Division and a registered professional engineer. He also discusses UL's steel fire certification much more knowledgably than Kevin Ryan. He is an example of one more highly qualified engineer who supports the collapse theory.

http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/02_d/berhinig.htm

From the FEMA report of the theater fire, my comments in [ ]
www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf

On the morning of January 28, 1997, in the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania township of Strasburg, a fire caused the collapse of the state-of-the-art, seven year old Sight and Sound Theater and resulted in structural damage to most of the connecting buildings.
The theater was a total loss, valued at over $15 million.

pg 6/74

The theater was built of steel rigid frame construction to allow for the large open space of the auditorium, unobstructed by columns... The interior finish in the auditorium was drywall.

The stage storage area, prop assembly building, and prop maintenance building were protected with a sprayed-on fire resistant coating on all structural steel. The plans called for the coating to meet a two-hour fire resistance assembly rating. The sprayed-on coating, which was susceptible to damage from the movement of theater equipment, was protected by attaching plywood coverings on the columns to a height of eight feet.

The walls of the storage area beneath the stage were layered drywall to provide a two-hour fire protection rating for the mezzanine offices [the WTC used drywall as fire protection in the central core] , and sprayed-on fire-resistant coatings on the structural
steel columns and ceiling bar joists supporting the stage floor.
pg 15/74

The two theater employees told the State Police Fire Investigator that when they first discovered the fire they noticed that the sprayed-on fire proofing had been knocked off the underside of the stage floor bar joists and support steel. The fire proofing was hanging on the wire mesh used to hold the coating to the overhead. The investigation revealed that the construction company's removal of the stage floor covering down to the corrugated decking involved striking the floor hard enough to knock off the sprayed-on protection, exposing the structural steel and bar-joists in the storage area. [The theater's spray-on fireproofing was newer and more modern than at the WTC, The theater was only seven years old. If striking the floor during renovations was enough to dislodge it imagine the impact of a 767]

pg 16/74

Temperatures of 1000° F can cause buckling and temperatures of 1500° F can cause steel to lose strength and collapse. When the heat and hot gases reached the stage ceiling they extended horizontally into the auditorium, causing the roof to fail all the way to the lobby fire wall. The fire also extended horizontally from the stage to the elevated hallway, causing the structural steel to fail and buckle in the prop assembly and prop maintenance buildings

pg 17/74

Once the heat of the fire caused the structural steel to fail in the storage area (aided by the damage to the sprayed-on fire protection during renovation), interior firefighting became too hazardous to continue. The truck crews ventilating the roof noted metal
discoloration and buckling steel.

pg. 21/74

The two hour fire resistance-rated assembly in the storage area beneath the stage was damaged during the stage floor renovation, leaving the structural members unprotected from the ensuing fire.

pg. 26/74

Buildings constructed of steel should, in effect, be considered unprotected and capable of collapse from fire in as few as ten minutes. Fire resistant coatings sprayed onto structural steel are susceptible to damage from construction work.

The impact of fire and heat on structural steel members warrant extreme caution by firefighters.

pg. 36/74
Unless the steel members are cooled with high-volume hose streams, the fire's heat can rapidly cause steel to lose its strength and contribute to building collapse.
pg. 37/74

Other Fires

In February 1991 a fire broke out in One Meridian Plaza a 38 story office building in Philadelphia. The building was built during the same period as the WTC and had spray-on fire protection on it's steel frame. Despite not suffering impact damage authorities were worried it might collapse.

"All interior firefighting efforts were halted after almost 11 hours of uninterrupted fire in the building. Consultation with a structural engineer and structural damage observed by units operating in the building led to the belief that there was a possibility of a pancake structural collapse of the fire damaged
floors."

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/txt/publications/tr-049.txt

About 2 years later the NYFD was concerned that a steel framed building that partially collapsed during after a gas explosion might collapse entirely due to the resulting fire.

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/TR-068.pdf


Part of a floor of an unprotected steel frame building collapsed in Brackenridge, Pennsylvania, December 20, 1991. Killing 4 volunteer firemen
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/TR-061.pdf


Part of the roof of a steel framed school in Virginia collapsed about 20 minutes after fire broke out

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-135.pdf



KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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I was under the impression they gave no clear explanation of why the shamefully forgotten Building 7 came down.

---------------------------------------------

WTC7 came down with a 20 story hole in it, a three story visible bulge and totally on fire and corner damage running up to the 18th floor but lets explore shall we?

Lets look at this 10 second video of WTC 7 first.

http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Smoke.avi

Stills of the whole building.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_1.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_2.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_3.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_4.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_5.html

Corner damage.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/av.caesar/wtc/wtc7_2.jpg

The 20 Story Hole
http://www.debunking911.com/7wtc.jpg

Illustrated 42 page PowerPoint style detailed report (easy read) on the damage. A must see.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf

And a lot of Fuel

Fuel Tanks for generators in WTC7

275-gallon tank on 7th floor;

one 6,000-gallon tank located between low-rise elevators in east elevator shaft between 2nd and 3rd floors

Two 6,000-gallon tanks under loading dock on ground level

Two 12,000-gallon tanks under loading dock on ground level

275-gallon tank on 5th floor

Approximately 50- to 100-gallon tank under generator on 9th floor

275-gallon tank on 8th floor on west side next to exterior wall

Here is your fire from the firemen on scene.

Battalion Chief John Norman
Special Operations Command - 22 years

From there, we looked out at 7 World Trade Center again. You could see smoke, but no visible fire, and some damage to the south face. You couldn’t really see from where we were on the west face of the building, but at the edge of the south face you could see that it was very heavily damaged.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/norman.html
Chris Boyle expands on what he saw when he viewed the south side, not just the corner.
Captain Chris Boyle
Engine 94 - 18 years

Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html

Another report talks of damage that suggested collapse was a real possibility:
...Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110462.PDF

Fire chief Daniel Nigro says further assessment of the damage indicated that it was severe:

The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC Building 7]. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-634

Another fireman reported damage that progressed as the day wore on.
Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Division 1 - 33 years

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

This evidence supports the NIST contention that the building collapse progressed from the penthouse out as columns weakened by the fires. The slow sinking of the penthouses, indicating the internal collapse of the building behind the visible north wall, took 8.2 seconds according to a NIST preliminary report. Seismograph trace of the collapse of WTC 7 indicates that parts of the building were hitting the ground for 18 seconds. This means the collapse took at least 18 seconds, of which only the last approximately 15 seconds are visible in videos: 8 seconds for the penthouses and 7 seconds for the north wall to come down.


AND HERE ARE TWO QUESTIONS

1. If this was done as a False Flag Operation, what is the significance of the relatively small in the (grand scheme of things) WTC7, If you drop the Huge WTC1 & 2 (think back to those images on TV the first time you saw them) did Bush have some mathematical formula that said the US population would not support a war in Iraq unless WTC7 was dropped also?

2. Why drop the penthouse through WTC7’s roof 5 seconds before you drop WTC7. If you are going to bring the whole thing down in five seconds why do all the work to drop the penthouse through the roof a mere five seconds earlier?



KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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OK, you've clearly done your research (yes I read it all, if in slight confusion.. I'm no engineer. Yes i should also probably read further into the opposing viewpoint) and I'm certainly more skeptical about the controlled demolition theory. I have seen recent video of firemen telling people to step back as the building was about to collapse which was used on various conspiracy sites to back up the conspiracy theory but I viewed this as them seeing the signs of an impending collapse as how would they know bombs were planted.

But in response to your questions anyway, 1. WTC7 housed the offices of the CIA and the FBI amongst others. Everyone is aware of how dodgey the CIA are so why not destroy some evidence during all the carnage of the day? Though of course this is just speculation, we can not know what was going through the mind of whoever planned the attacks.
2. Honestly, no idea.

This unfortunately is the nature of the evidence, nothing is cut and dry. I never regarded the physical evidence of a controlled demolition as the most reliable proof of a conspiracy. Bush's strange behavior obviously makes me suspect, his response to an 8 yo's question "what did you think when you saw the towers collapse" was also very suspect, "When I saw the first plane hit the building, I thought... what a bad pilot... The TV was obviously on." Obviously he couldn't have seen the first plane hit the building as footage didn't emerge for some hours so why lie about this? Maybe he was doing something untoward like adultery or taking coke at the time so he couldn't actually say what he was doing but I see no reason to lie to a little girl if this was not the case unless he had foreknowledge.

The actual hijackers, many are reported to be still alive by the BBC and others, although the BBC tried to backtrack with what was a cheap editorial proving nothing. Also on the hijackers they were not Muslims, they attended strip clubs and other ungodly things in the run up to the hijackings whcih is reported in various publications. They also apparently trained in Government flight schools and others trained, the instructors spoke of how poor their flying skills were, I am strongly skeptical of their abilities to perform complex military style turns (the NORAD guy said it looked like a military aircraft) and crash into both the towers with near perfect precision. The timing of when Bush is told "the nation is under attack" also raises questions as to how much the government knew.

Do we really want to get into a 9/11 debate though, there are many things that are fishy and don't add up but there are many things that could be said to support the official line. I think we can all agree that the attacks were used to justify completely immoral things. Exploiting a nation's grief for their own selfish aims of war and domestic tyranny is criminal. This film highlights this though, in a slightly skewed way, I think it is invaluable in highlighting a generally ignored part of History, governments crimes against their own people to justify their future actions. And I see this occurring now, at the very least they allowed it to happen (Cheney telling NORAD planes to stand down, Bush not being whisked away to some kind of safe zone when Cheney and others told reporters they were taken pretty much instantly by the secret service and his inactive weird trance etc.)

But, as I say I'm just one man with little expertise in demolitions, psychology or politics so any debate I enter I would undoubtedly lose due to my inferior experience. If I was a scholar for 9/11 truth I would sit here happily debating with you all night no doubt but this is not the case. You could argue I'm doing what uberswanz accused conspiracy theorists of doing, but all of this other evidence not controlled demolition is extremely valid and are not lies as a simple google will prove.

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[deleted]

Sure Gibby, you are just making that up like you always do, how about a link for once in your life?

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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The actual hijackers, many are reported to be still alive by the BBC and others, although the BBC tried to backtrack with what was a cheap editorial proving nothing. Also on the hijackers they were not Muslims, they attended strip clubs and other ungodly things in the run up to the hijackings whcih is reported in various publications. They also apparently trained in Government flight schools and others trained, the instructors spoke of how poor their flying skills were, I am strongly skeptical of their abilities to perform complex military style turns (the NORAD guy said it looked like a military aircraft) and crash into both the towers with near perfect precision. The timing of when Bush is told "the nation is under attack" also raises questions as to how much the government knew.

Been there and we can go there in seconds, it's all been debunked right down to the standdown….

Do we really want to get into a 9/11 debate though

Your call.

I think we can all agree that the attacks were used to justify completely immoral things. Exploiting a nation's grief for their own selfish aims of war

I don’t have a problem going this far.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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I havn't seen those things being debunked, perhaps you could provide a link to this debunking.
What about Bush's behavior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j2VXfoy-dk I find this evidence compelling.

Operation Northwoods also shows that US officials were at least considering false flag operations, and the fact that the white house is filled with cold war relics from the same time period thirsty for war suggests that it is not too outrageous to suggest that they came up with a new Operation Northwoods implemented on 9/11.

What do you make of those dancing Israeli's who were arrested then let go?
It was certainly a conspiracy, whether you believe the conspiracy theory that it was perpetrated by Islamic Extremists whose logic is obviously flawed insulting their intelligence and just wanted to hurt America cos theyre so jealous (suure), or the one about neo-cons who wanted to start a new war to increase American influence across the globe in their Project (PNAC), or Israeli's wanting to generate hatred towards Muslims so they can continue to occupy Palestine... I don't think all the facts have come out, I could be wrong we'll just have to wait and see.

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"your not the only one, 84% of americans think the same and most of the world think it was an total inside job"

I am part of the 84%, one of the millions.

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I havn't seen those things being debunked, perhaps you could provide a link to this debunking.

Also on the hijackers they were not Muslims, they attended strip clubs and other ungodly things in the run up to the hijackings whcih is reported in various publications.

We can start here…..(KSM is also a member)

Strip Clubs, Pork and boose,
Atta has been associated with a sect called Al Takfir wal Hijra, run by al Quaeda second-in-command Ayman Al-Zawahiri. This is an extreme fundamentalist sect, however...

"A major element of Takfir religious practice is subterfuge. The threat of Takfir is that its cold, heartless killers could easily be the boy or girl next door. Takfir Wal Hijra members are permitted to disregard the injunctions of Islamic law in order to blend into infidel societies.

In other words, Takfirs can have sex with loose women, drink alcohol, eat pork and do whatever else they feel is appropriate to advance their mission...

Mohammed Atta, although puritanical in his behavior, was believed to be Takfiri. He's not the only al Qaeda operative you could point the finger at. Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed went to discos, drank alcohol and dated call girls. Yousef in particular is renowned for being generally unIslamic and non-observant of prayers and fasting. Although no one has suggested openly that Yousef and KSM were Takfiri, it's hardly a stretch".

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/terrorist-organizations/al-takfir-wal-hijra
The group's warriors should blend in with Western society and are allowed to disobey all rules of the Islam for the goal of destroying Western civilization from within. According to this ideology the warriors will be martyrs in Paradise after death.
http://www.answers.com/topic/takfir-wal-hijra

Today, the archaic, sectlike movement to which the suspects in Europe belonged sees violence as a sacred duty and regards even moderate Muslims as legitimate targets. But it also permits disciples to engage in "impure" Western conduct in order to infiltrate infidel societies.

"They don't have to go to mosques; they can even drink and use drugs to maintain their cover," said a French law enforcement official. "They can commit crime to finance their activities. It is like an intelligence service."
http://www.norwalkadvocate.com/news/nationworld/sns-worldtrade-embassyplot-lat,0,3646484.story?page=1&coll=sns-newsnation-headlines
Roland Jacquard, one of the world's leading scholars on Islamic terrorism, says flatly, "Atta was Takfiri"...

French officials think that Takfiri beliefs have bred a distinct form of terrorism. "The goal of Takfir," says one, "is to blend into corrupt societies in order to plot attacks against them better. Members live together, will drink alcohol, eat during Ramadan, become smart dressers and ladies' men to show just how integrated they are."
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,182746,00.html





KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

I am part of the 84%, one of the millions.

LOL 84%

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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even though there were 67 occasions where fighters were scrambled to intercept errant aircraft in the 9 month period before 9/11.

And only one was successfully and took a hour and a half in the ten years before 9/11 spaceboy.

. "...it was also reported that signs of Flight 11's hijacking had been observed at 8:15. That would mean that although interceptions usually occur within "10 or so" minutes after signs of trouble are observed..."

- David Ray Griffin.

Wrong, but that is what happens when you listen to Griffin. Sixty Seven attempted intercepts in the 10 years before 9/11, only one actual intercept over North America and that took about a hour and a half. So much for 10 minutes.




In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense

Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=3&c=y
This issue attracted many comments from other sites, attempting to themselves debunk the Popular Mechanics piece. 911 Research, for instance, referred to this quote by Norad official Major Douglas Martin, who in an AP story said:
"From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said".
www.wanttoknow.info/020812ap

And from this 911Research conclude:
It is safe to assume that a significant fraction of scrambles lead to intercepts, so the fact that there were 67 scrambles in a 9-month period before 9/11/01 suggests that there are dozens of intercepts per year. To its assertion that there was only one intercept in a decade, the article adds that "rules in effect ... prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts," and the suggestion that there were no hotlines between ATCs and NORAD.http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

This seems reasonable, until you look more closely, because the primary assertion they are objecting to here is that “there was only one intercept in a decade”. And that’s not what the original piece said: let’s look at the key points again.

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet

Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ,"...
So what Popular Mechanics are saying is that there was one intercept of a “civilian plane over North America” in the decade before 9/11, because all other intercepts were offshore. There’s no direct contradiction with the Douglas Martin quote, as he doesn’t say whether the intercepts were offshore or over the continental US.


It’s not just Popular Mechanics saying this, either. The October 2005 edition of “Plane & Pilot” magazine essentially did the same:
Terms like Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) and temporary flight restriction (TFR) quickly came into widespread use among the general-aviation pilot group. Those terms had been around for years. Military fighters and the ADIZ protected American coasts from intrusions by Russian Bear Bombers throughout the Cold War. TFRs were used for presidential security and other extraordinary events. But they weren’t part of a pilot’s everyday life. You didn’t get intercepted and forced down if you flew through a TFR.

Today, things are different. There’s an ADIZ that surrounds Washington, D.C. In the four years after 9/11, it was violated over 1,000 times. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) has scrambled fighters for intercepts within U.S. borders over 1,600 times. In the year previous to 9/11, NORAD intercepted airplanes in the ADIZ only 67 times, none of which occurred within the U.S. borders.
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2005/oct/busting_tfr.html

The Popular Mechanics claim still seems quite absolute, but then that just means it wouldn’t take much to disprove it. Just find a media report of an intercept, an interview with a pilot who was intercepted when they accidentally flew too close to the White House, anything like that... How difficult can it be? After all, if these 67 scrambles in 9 months were typical, and we’re equating scrambles with intercepts, then that suggests 893 of these events over 10 years. Even if only 10% were intercepts over the continental US, then surely there must be an unquestionable, rock-solid record of one of them, somewhere?

Well, uh, no, it seems not. At least not from the various Popular Mechanics debunking pieces. Alex Jones, for instance, tells us this:
I've talked to pilots who've had radio problems and F-16's fly up next to them. Everybody knows this, not just Maj. Douglas Martin the Public Affairs Officer. ...We have the public record, everybody knows this, this is public knowledge.
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm
No names, no references, nothing you can check, you just have to take his word for it.

Peter Meyer uses the Douglas Martin quote, then quotes an email as supporting evidence:
...Here is the "Key" to unlock the door: The extensive flight logs for 20 years from the 3 military bases in the area and Port Authority responding to air threats is exemplary.

Thousands of sorties run in response to threats, practice runs, false alarms, done weekly or daily over 20 years....
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
This is a little better as the person making the quote is named, but again, you’re still basically just taking their word for it. (There’s a little more to the email and their argument, but we don’t want to reproduce the entire page here, so zip over to the above site and check it out for yourself. We’ll wait.)

On balance, then, the “intercepts are routine” claim is far from proven, at least in conjunction with intercepts over the continental US. And if there really were so many, then it seems a little odd there’s not more concrete, solid documentation to show it.

What’s more, even if we ignore Popular Mechanics and just consider the Douglas Martin quote, it’s far from clear as to what this actually means. Note that he was talking about the number of times jets were scrambled (and possibly diverted). Could some planes have been recalled soon afterwards, perhaps because radio contact had been re-established? Absolutely, scrambling is only the first step. We don't know how many actual intercepts actually took place.

Another complication is that in the first figure Martin refers to scrambling jets or diverting combat air patrols, while in the second he mentions scrambling only. Is the quote literally correct, or does the “67” figure also include combat patrols that were diverted to a particular target?

Regardless of that, it’s worth bearing in mind that intercepts may not always be successful.
...another federal official said that two years ago [in 2002], military jets could identify and intercept only about 40 percent of intruders in training drills.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35440-2004Jul7_2.html

Some claim intercepts always happened if planes travelled into restricted or prohibited areas, but this isn’t true at all. An FAA rule change from September 28th 2001 makes this clear.
WASHINGTON - The FAA today alerted civilian pilots of their responsibility to avoid restricted airspace and the procedures to follow if intercepted, in light of the Department of Defense announcement that pilots near or in restricted or prohibited airspace face a forced landing, or as a last resort, use of deadly force by military aircraft...

Earlier, pilots who flew in restricted or prohibited areas received a warning from Air Traffic Control and then faced suspension or revocation of their licenses or a fine. Now a pilot faces interception by military aircraft and then a forced landing at the first available airport. The Department of Defense has stated that deadly force will be used only as a last resort after all other means are exhausted.
http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1415
So prior to 9/11 it seems that even flying in restricted or prohibited airspace wouldn’t necessarily result in an interception. Perhaps this process really wasn’t so routine, after all.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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[deleted]

Wrong Gibby, Other than Payne name three other planes intercepted over North America in the 10 years before 9/11. The burden is on you! Three planes, name them with a link! I want actually flight # or pilot names, not a vague sentence.

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Still waiting Gibby,

yet flight 77 was not intercepted as it flew over the normally most heavily protected airspace in the United States, were meant to believe they couldnt get a fighter jet into the air to protect the capital,

In the meantime…….

Most heavily protected airspace in the United States One would have thought they could have stopped this one too as it was the Presidents pad.

Administration officials, who pieced together the flight path, said that the Secret Service agents stationed outside the South Portico had only seconds to scramble out of the way as the two-seat, propeller-driven Cessna 150, its power apparently shut off and only its wing lights on, came straight at them.

Gliding over the treetops, the Cessna passed the fountain and the red cannas blooming on the South Lawn, bounced off the grass just short of the White House, crashed through the branches of a magnolia tree planted by Andrew Jackson and came to rest in a crumpled heap two stories below the Clintons' unoccupied bedroom.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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[deleted]

Wrong Gibby, Other than Payne name three other planes intercepted over North America in the 10 years before 9/11. The burden is on you! Three planes, name them with a link! I want actually flight # or pilot names, not a vague sentence. Over North America Spaceboy, you know, where 9/11 happened.

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Still waiting Gibby, YOU CANT FIND SINGLE ONE CAN YOU!

yet flight 77 was not intercepted as it flew over the normally most heavily protected airspace in the United States, were meant to believe they couldnt get a fighter jet into the air to protect the capital,

In the meantime…….

Most heavily protected airspace in the United States One would have thought they could have stopped this one too as it was the Presidents pad.

Administration officials, who pieced together the flight path, said that the Secret Service agents stationed outside the South Portico had only seconds to scramble out of the way as the two-seat, propeller-driven Cessna 150, its power apparently shut off and only its wing lights on, came straight at them.

Gliding over the treetops, the Cessna passed the fountain and the red cannas blooming on the South Lawn, bounced off the grass just short of the White House, crashed through the branches of a magnolia tree planted by Andrew Jackson and came to rest in a crumpled heap two stories below the Clintons' unoccupied bedroom.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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..The comission is as solid as a rock??? Ok now i know youre insane. Eroding civil liberties is not a different issue at all, you arent making the right connections, you seem so close but yet keep arriving at conclusions that dont fit with the big picture. I used to be like you and trust my government and thought police were your friends, and thought how dare that piece of crap charlie sheen have anything to say about that tragic day, then i did my own research and found so many unsettling things. I still dont like charlie sheen but now it has nothing to do with his 911 comments, and everyone on here is just wanting the same thing, a real investigation where the right questions are being answered, that doesnt make someone a conspiracy theorist for wanting something investigated in full. Even the victims families were unhappy with it

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MasterShakeShun wrote:

TerrorStorm claims there are over 4million surveillance cameras in London. I’m not sure where they got that stat from. That seems too high, and Clive Norris estimates the cameras in the whole of the UK at 4.2million in total (http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/profile/story/0,,1801049,00.html).

Of course, Jones wouldn’t have been daft enough to take a UK-wide estimate and assume all these cameras are in London…would he?


Just because “you” feel it is impossible, improbable or unlikely doesn’t make it a fact that you can denounce others with your pathetic attempts at vindicating government filth and criminality perpetrated upon humanity in the name of security and defence.

Britons 'Most Spied Upon' In World
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/02112006/140/britons-most-spied-world.html
Britain is one of the surveillance capitals of the world with everyday movements subject to more and more scrutiny, according to the Government's information commissioner. Demand is growing for a debate on the number of CCTV cameras in Britain - 20% of the world's spy cameras are in the UK - one for every 12 people.

The UK has at a quick ‘google’ 60.5 million occupants, 1 camera for every 12 equates to 5,041,666 cameras.
Considering London has the greatest occupation it doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect 4 million+ cameras in the district.





Truth passes through 3 stages. 1st-ridicule, 2nd-violently opposed, and 3rd, it's accepted as fact.

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The UK has at a quick ‘google’ 60.5 million occupants, 1 camera for every 12 equates to 5,041,666 cameras.
Considering London has the greatest occupation it doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect 4 million+ cameras in the district.

London charges a fee to cars and also uses the films to catch and fine cheats. In all, there are at least 500,000 cameras in the city, and one study showed that in a single day a person could expect to be filmed 300 times.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB112077340647880052-cKyZgAb0T3asU4UDFVNPWrOAqCY_20060708.html

Actually it does, sounds like you are only off by 3.5 million. Now how about the Tube bombing helping Blair in the election?

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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MORE TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACTS!

Jones shouts about how “people in a cave” could not have caused 9/11. Aside from accuracy (Bin Laden wasn’t spending that much time in caves while the events were being prepared, the hijackers didn’t visit any caves while they lived in America and all around the world, though it’s still worth noting that people fighting from cave complexes like Tora Bora were able to defeat the Soviet army.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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[deleted]

Always!

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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[deleted]

How the Government Staged the London Bombings in Ten Easy Steps

1) Hire a Crisis Management firm to set up an exercise that parallels the terrorist attack you are going to carry out. Have them run the exercise at the precise locations and at the very same time as the attack. If at any stage of the attack your Arabs get caught, tell the police it was part of an exercise.


2) Hire four Arabs and tell them they're taking part in an important exercise to help defend London from terrorist attacks. Strap them with rucksacks filled with deadly explosives. Tell the Arabs the rucksacks are dummy explosives and wouldn't harm a fly.

3) Tell four Arabs to meet up at London Underground and disperse, each getting on a different train. Make sure Arabs meet in a location where you can get a good mug shot of them all on CCTV which you can later endlessly repeat to drooling masses on television.

4) While four Arabs are in London, plant explosives in their houses in Leeds. Plant some explosives in one of their cars in Luton for the police to later discover. Remember that Qu'ran and flight manual in the hijackers' car? Ha ha, they fell for that one hook, line and sinker. No need to change tactics on this one.

5) Before the bombings take place, make sure you warn any of your buddies who are scheduled to be anywhere near where the bombs go off. If this gets leaked to the press, just deny it.


6) 4th Arab goes out partying in London night before and ends up getting out of bed late. No worries, the 9/11 'hijackers' did the same thing but that didn't cause us a big problem. 4th Arab catches bus to see if other Arabs are waiting for him. 4th Arab starts hearing about explosions in the London Underground. 4th Arab comes to the realization that this he is being set up and freaks out. 4th Arab starts fiddling in his rucksack. 4th Arab sets bomb off and is blown up.

If you hired any additional Arabs and they also got wind of the set up, make sure there are GPS locators in the rucksacks so you can have police snipers ready to kill them before they can blow the whistle.

7) After the bombs go off, put out a story for over an hour that the explosions are a simple electrical fault. This gives you cover time to make sure the lazy bus Arab is dead and any other hired Arabs who reneged are also dead. Make sure any CCTV footage that doesn't support your official story is either seized or destroyed.

8) A few hours after the bombings, have one of your boys post an 'Al-Qaeda statement' claiming responsibility. Don't worry about the whole 'misreferencing the Qu'ran' thing, these idiots don't have the attention spans to figure it out.


9) After you have made sure that all the Arabs are dead and you are managing the story accordingly, wait for four days until the police piece together the story and find the explosives you planted in Leeds and in the car in Luton. Remember that Qu'ran and flight manual in the hijackers' car? Ha ha, they fell for that one hook, line and sinker. No need to change tactics this time either. The time delay will convince the gullible public that a real investigation is taking place. Create a background of the hired Arabs being militant Muslims. The drooling masses, as was the case with the '9/11 hijackers,' will ignore stories of neighbours saying they were the quiet, educated types who liked children and playing sports.

BBC excerpt: One local resident described him as "a nice lad".

"He liked to play football, he liked to play cricket. I'm shocked."

Another resident said he was just a "normal kid" who played basketball and kicked a ball around.

10) Sit back and enjoy as Blair and his minions grandstand in front of television cameras about staying the course in the war on terror. The pay raise, extra agency funding, and power to strip more freedoms and liberties made the ten easy steps to staging a terrorist attack a worthwhile venture. The dozens of dead people were necessary collateral damage. This is a dirty war, we need to be less moral than the terrorists to defeat them.

And that's how the government staged the bombings in ten easy steps.

Granted, you can interchange different pieces of the puzzle. The bombers could be real government funded al-qaeda terrorists that knew exactly what they were doing. All you would need to do is control the 'mastermind' behind the attack.

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1) Hire a Crisis Management firm to set up an exercise that parallels the terrorist attack you are going to carry out. Have them run the exercise at the precise locations and at the very same time as the attack. If at any stage of the attack your Arabs get caught, tell the police it was part of an exercise.

The bombings happened on a office tabletop?

------------------------------------------

They claim that in a BBC Radio 5 interview on July 7th, Peter Power admitted that his Visor Consulting firm: "was running a 1,000 person strong exercise which drilled the London Underground being bombed at the exact same locations, at the exact same times, as happened in real life."

The article goes on to claim that the Visor Consulting drill: "acts as a cover for the small compartamentalized government terrorists to carry out their operation without the larger security services becoming aware of what they're doing, and, more importantly, if they get caught during the attack or after with any incriminating evidence they can just claim that they were just taking part in the exercise."

The article gives the clear impression that up to 1,000 personnel were involved in a London drill -including field agents who were active in the London Underground and providing cover for those planting the bombs.

That couldn't be more wrong.

In fact, Power's consultancy firm was running a small "corporate wargame" drill for the management team of a British company with 1,000 employees. Here's the BBC transcript of the interview Power gave
POWER: "At half past nine this morning we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now."
Clearly, the figure of 1,000 refers to the size of the company whose managers were being drilled - and not to the number of participants in the drill.


Furthermore, any savvy investigator knows that these types of private-sector "risk management" drills never use field staff. Neither do these low-level corporate drills have active involvement of police or other security forces.

The London corporate drill was just a glorified administration seminar where managers get to use security buzzwords --while seated around an office table guessing how they would respond to loss of available staff for call centers, power outages, or travel restrictions, etc..

Bear in mind that Peter Power was doing a bit of hyping too, playing up the idea that his firm was so well attuned that it was running a terror drill about bombs at "precisely at the railway stations where it happened." But in a separate, simpering TV interview Power admits that their exercise also included mainline rail targets as well as the Underground. His firm runs these terror seminars frequently.

Anyway, any half-competent drill would predictably be based on attacks on central London Underground stations. Duuuh! Probably some of these overlapped with the actual targets.


KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

PS:If you hired any additional Arabs and they also got wind of the set up, make sure tere are GPS locators in the rucksacks so you can have police snipers ready to kill them before they can blow the whistle.


Since when do police snipers use pistols at point blank range. Can you say precision tactical rifle, bulit around a Remington model 700 bolt action receiver with adjustable stock, cheek weld normally in 308 with a free floating barrel?

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[deleted]

THE NEXT AVAILABLE TRAIN ARRIVED AT KING'S CROSS AT 8.48. tHE POLICE CLAIM THE BOMBERS WERE CAUGHT ON CAMERA AT 8.26.

Wrong, in the early story they got the train wrong because of witnesses claims, one of these was used.

Six trains left well before 8.a.m. They were the 07.04, 07.08, 07.16, 07.20, 07.24, and 07.30 and arived before 8:48.

Dear Dr Kollerstrom

Thank you for your further email.

I have investigated the records and found that:

Luton - King's Cross Thameslink

07.04-07.40: ran on time

07.08-07.56: (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 30 min. late)

07.16-07.48 : (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 30 min. late)

07.20-08.08: (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 10 min. late)

07.24-08.00: (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 20 min. late)

07.30-08.04: (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 35 min. late)

07.40-08.16: Cancelled

07.48-08.20: (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 25 min. late)

07.46-08.28: Cancelled

07.56-08.32: Cancelled

I hope this is useful.

Kind regards,
Marie Bernes

Customer Relations
Thameslink

http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/Thameslink_info.htm



KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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[deleted]

tkidCharminultrasoft claims

The alleged bombers are filmed at luton station at 7.22. ……….THE NEXT AVAILABLE TRAIN ARRIVED AT KING'S CROSS AT 8.48. tHE POLICE CLAIM THE BOMBERS WERE CAUGHT ON CAMERA AT 8.26.

The facts

07.48-08.20: (ran but with delays due to problems with the overheadlines in the Mill Hill Area. App. 25 min. late)


I guess that would make you, uhhhh, WRONG!



Alex Jones, Keeping believers date free since 1996

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TERROR STORM PHUN PHACTS

David Shayler argues that 7/7 was a false flag operation

David Shayler states 7/7 has been used to push identity cards through UK parliament. Um, not yet…

David Shayler claims an MI5 officer thought that Israel bombed their own London embassy in 1994.

Despite all the eyewitness reports of 7/7, David Shayler focuses on the one anomalous report that suggests the bomb was under a train (metal pointing up). Aside from the possibility this could just be bits of the seat or floor blown in an odd way, isn’t it also possible that the guy was mistaken – traumatized witnesses to sometimes misremember details. Or does Shayler believe one witness over all the others, and the rescue workers, and investigators, who helped on the scene.

David Shayler complains that this isn’t being followed up. That could be due to a huge conspiracy, or could be cause the wreckage did not suggest a bomb under the train.

SO WHO IS DAVID SHAYLER

Poster-boy of the UK branch of the 9-11 Truth movement is former MI5 agent David Shayler. An acknowledged ‘insider’, he must have seemed a great asset to the fraternity. But at the Big Green Gathering this year, SchNEWS were confronted with the spectacle of a man who appeared to have swallowed and regurgitated the entire works of David “blame the lizards” Icke. No stone was left turned, no subject demystified as Dave told us how aliens have been negotiating with our government and 500 abductees are the only people who’ve got any real idea about all this 9-11 stuff. That includes 7/7 and 11/7 (date of Mumbai bombings by the way) - all evidence of an underground plot by a ‘shadow Zionist secret government’. Amongst other interesting points conjured forth were that the Royal family is descended from multi-dimensional Annunaki lizards (and ‘flaws’ in evolutionary theory prove it!)

http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news559.htm


Alex Jones, Keeping believers date free since 1996

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[deleted]

Not according to ...

Kind regards,
Marie Bernes

Customer Relations
Thameslink

But you would know more than him since you don't work there. Did David Icke's Lizard people tell you this?

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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"all truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

but that doesn't mean evrything ridiculed is true

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MasterShake, you spend an awful lot of time trying to prove conspirators wrong. Is it such a bad thing for one person to have a mixed opinion on a tragic event? Seriously. And can anyone even trust the government anymore? The very same government who sacrifices liberty for security? Now I don't know how things in the UK run, but the people deserve to know the truth. It's kind of ridiculous when the police say one thing, yet the facts and even the media can contradict it. Or vice versa. All it is is mind control. Fear is the mindkiller.

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Sitting on top of someone who "has a bomb" is the last thing ANY officer would do, what about the fact that they lied about seeing wires and the huge coat. Why not just shoot him? Why get close to a "bomb" in the first place when the result is the same, him dead? My answer would be they had to make sure he was dead so he couldnt talk, otherwise any normal person would want him alive to see if theres anymore devices anywhere. Witnesses said it looked fishy, and the whole thing reeks to me

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What's the story with the Bohemian Grove? I just saw Terrorstorm and they just like mentioned it and asked people what they knew about it (not much). Then Alex planning to go there, then it was over. What the hell was that?


--
Don't make me take off my sunglasses!

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I don't think Alex staged it, but it looks more like a really bad theatrical production than the sinister event he claims it is.

For even more insight, do a Google video search for Jon Ronson's documentary about the infiltration: http://tinyurl.com/2hkxg3

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I don't think Alex staged it, but it looks more like a really bad theatrical production than the sinister event he claims it is.

With about every fact wrong if you read through the whole thread.

HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Oh, And Alex Jones is a big gasbag.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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The Media evne admitted it was genuine after he leaked it.

http://www.RonPaul2008.com/
Our only Hope for a Decent President.

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The Media evne admitted it was genuine after he leaked it.

Admitted what and a link!

Diablo5150-You said I'm illogical which proves that YOU are and IDIOT!!!

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BUMP FOR ALEX JONES!

Diablo5150-You said I'm illogical which proves that YOU are and IDIOT!!!

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[deleted]

Yes, They just bring up more garbage and I am not even 20% done with my facts, I need to work harder, LOL.

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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The fundamental-basis of this documentary is simply false.

Alex Jones claims that the Spanish-shadow government planned the bombings in spain a few years back.... (i dont know if it this documentary or the other, been so long since ive seen them).

It is simply retarded to think that the spanish government planned it themselves to blaim it on Muslims.

Because what did they gain from it???
NOTHING.
The right-wing-government of spain fell in the next election because of it. The terror-attack didnt lead to more war or surveliance.
Plus, if the spanish Government planned this whole deal, then why did they blaim it on ETA at first??? USA knew hours after 9/11 that it was propably Al-Quada, and yet the Spanish Government didnt want to blaim it on Al-Quada??
If the spanish government had planned it, then they would have at first have placed the blaim on Muslims.....
This just shows that all conspiracy theorists are opotunistic liars.

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Sounds like someone has the ability to watch a video and think at the same time, refreshing.

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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Terrorstorm refers to "the London Police Department" as being involved in the 7/7 attacks. However, there is no such thing in London, England (the film presumably was not referring to the London Police Department in Kentucky).

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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The Tale Of The Boiling Mastershakeshun,

It's about time I told you the Tale Of The Mastershakeshun. Truth be told, and consider yourself told, we start our story with everything and its purpose in life. (Hey, I never said this was a light-hearted story.) Every being is made with a purpose. Thanks to either God or Darwin, depending on which side of the fence you plant your daisies, all living things are highly intricate beings, each molded for survival. Whether it be the quills of a porcupine that save the ugly little critter from untimely demise, or the human eyelash that protects our vision from random particle intrusion, we have been perfectly molded to interact with our surroundings.

Mastershakeshun, for reasons that I have yet to comprehend, has a discerning survival instinct. More specifically, Mastershakeshuns' instinct is only triggered by sudden, abrupt changes. And this is where our little story begins.

Let's say you have mastershakeshun in one hand and a pot of water in the other. Let's also say you put the pot on the hot stove and wait until the water is boiling. If you then place your helpless little mastershakeshun directly into the boiling water, he will jump out as quickly as he can, doing anything in his might to escape the danger. (As for you, you should feel ashamed of yourself. But that's another topic.)

Now let's take scenario number B. Let's say you've got that same, now slightly cautious mastershakeshun in the one hand and a pot of cool, pleasant water in the other. And let's say you put the little feller in that cool water. Well, he'd be swimming around as happy as a mastershakeshun in a pot of cool water. Now that we understand how sinister you are, let's say you ever-so-slowly turn up the heat on that water. Here's the catch - your little mastershakeshun won't notice. To the contrary, mastershakeshun will enter a pleasant little stupor, a smile upon his little face. In fact, the little critter will not be aware of any danger until it's too late and you're left with a pot of boiled mastershakeshun and perhaps a little extra guilt on your shoulders. mastershakeshun killer. x

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Could you rephrase that into something coherent?

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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[deleted]

Yes, So it's time for...............

ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

Jones asserts that, if a journalist in Iraq runs one story that’s critical of occupation government they get an average 30 year sentence. Alternatively, sometimes journalists are just tortured or executed.

That’s really interesting – I knew there were significant problems for journalists in Iraq, but hadn’t heard this exciting news about the average 30 year sentence for the first critical story you write. I can’t wait to hear Jones’ evidence for this…oh, it must be coming later…

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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POSTED BY STEVE WATSON ON 11/07/05

Yesterday morning, just as I was preparing breakfast in my North London home, my phone rang and my plans for the day radically altered. The voice on the other end was a very familiar one telling me that she had had to evacuate her train at Kings Cross Station and had heard a very load explosion just seconds earlier. She was confused and wanted me to clarify what was happening by turning on the TV.

Instinctively switching to the BBC, the bold headline read "POWER SURGES ON LONDON UNDERGROUND" and the scene was crawling with police, emergency services and people evacuating the station. I immediately knew what was really going on and told her that there were almost certainly bombs on the tubes and that she should get away from the station.

How did I know this? Because for weeks and months I have watched as the fearmongering in London has risen. I have analyzed the Stasi-like "anti-terror"campaigns, the fake and sometimes unannounced terror drills, the house arrests where all are subsequently released, the press conferences where The Police Commissioner and the Mayor have explicitly told us we would be attacked soon and there's nothing we could do about it.

I have rode on the tube at the rush hour as people nervously pack onto the trains and try not to reveal their anxiety. I have witnessed the antiwar marches and the NO ID campaigns, the tension that surrounded the general election in London, the Live 8 circus and the Olympics farce. I have spoken to Londoners on a daily basis and I have felt the tension rise in this city to a point where we were prepared to be shown the feature presentation, "ATTACK ON LONDON"

So I put the call in to my brother and we were covering the incident, trawling the news wires, watching the live broadcasts within minutes of the first explosion, because that's what we do. We have watched relentlessly as the official story has been pieced together, and this looks, smells and tastes like another government operation. Already, within hours, there are multiple inconsistencies and contradictions which must be highlighted now before they disappear down the memory hole.

ADVANCE INTELLIGENCE

The first inconsistency to emerge, and to date the most compelling, is that of advance warning and prior knowledge. The police and the government have said unequivocally that there was no advance warning or indicative intelligence and that the attacks came "out of the blue". Yet early AP and Israeli radio reports clearly stated that Scotland Yard had given warning to the Israeli Embassy in London that an attack was imminent BEFORE any explosions had taken place.


Screen grab from the Israeli National News. The report is still online here

The Israeli National News quickly went off-line completely after the publication of this story, but has since returned with the original article still available.

The Embassy warned Finance Minister and former Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to stay inside his London hotel. For an hour after the first blast, the government and the news media were reporting that the cause was an electrical power surge. If the government knew bombs were going to go off before they did, why did they report for an hour that it was an accident? Were they trying to bide time so they could get their story straight? The same thing happened on 9/11 with the first plane strike.

Both Scotland Yard and the Israelis have since denied that they had any foreknowledge of the attack.

Since the original report, major TV news networks have been completely silent on the Netanyahu story. They are just repeating claims that there was no prior knowledge.

About an hour after the story broke, Associated Press started altering their online news stories, stating that Netanyahu got the warning after the first blast and not before. Haaretz is now reporting the same thing. It seems as if they are scrambling to coordinate their cover story. Either there were no warnings or the warning was after the first blast. The dithering seems to suggest there is some confusion on how to successfully hide the smoking gun, the fact that Netanyahu was warned before the first explosion.

Why didn't the people on the trains and buses get the same warning?


In a further development The Jerusalem post has reported that Israel have ordered their officials not to speak to the media about the bombings, suggesting a lock down on any potential leaks.


DOWNGRADING ALERT LEVEL

On June 7th, MI5 downgraded the London terror alert from its second highest level “severe general” to a lower category of “substantial”. One month before the World's leaders were to gather in Britain, bringing in an influx of protesters and activists, why would this be a logical course of action?

Why did they do this, was somebody lowering the guard


ARMY ON THE STREETS?

Several foreign news reports stated that at 11:20 the Army were dispatched onto the streets of London. If this actually happened, were we under martial law? and why were the British people not informed. I have not heard or seen any eyewitness accounts stating the presence of soldiers on the streets, but no one is denying it occurred either.


MOBILE NETWORK SHUTDOWN?

The Police have said today that the mobile phone networks were not shut down as this would have caused public panic. (The Madrid Bombings were coordinated with the use of mobile phones). "We did consider it. We do have that ability," Blair said. But he said commanders considered how that would affect public confidence, and decided not to do it.

OK so why is the British media reporting that networks were shut down under a program called Access Overload Control , and why could I not make any calls for at least two hours? When the network is busy you get told that it is busy, my calls were instantly intercepted and failed immediately with no such message.

Furthermore, Whilst some "investigators" are saying timers WERE used to detonate the bombs, the Police are saying there is no evidence that timers were used.


REMOVING BODIES OR NOT?

During the same press conference the Police Commissioner also indicated that there were still bodies in the train between Russell Square and Kings Cross that are not yet being retrieved due to dangers of the tunnel collapsing. Yet the BBC had reported minutes earlier that police at the scene were saying they were in the process of carrying out forensic work in that carriage and the bodies were being retrieved. Which is true?

It is clear that the officials are not getting the official story straight.


HOW MANY DEAD?

The police will only go as far as saying at this point that "more than 50" are dead. Of these 50 officially only 2 died on the bus. The scene where the bus was blown apart has been completely cordoned off with screens. It is clear that more than 2 people died on the bus just from the pictures that have been released and the eyewitness accounts, so why are we still being told only 2 people are dead?

The Bombs also "held less than 10 pounds of high explosives" (about rucksack size). Are we to believe that this amount of explosive material on 3 different trains and 1 bus has not killed more than 50 people? The carriages at that time are absolutely packed with people, you have to literally stand nose to nose. I know, I was on a train at that time on the same line just the previous day.

Again the authorities are hiding the real facts, why?

More people are killed in car accidents every week in London than in this "major terror attack" yet the repercussions are likely to vastly bolster the police state grid.


SUICIDE BOMBERS? CCTV?

The media is in a frenzy over whether the bombs were let off by suicide bombers. The Police have said there is no evidence of suicide bombers and that there are many CCTV tapes to trawl through in order to uncover the facts. All London Buses have CCTV cameras on them, why don't they just watch the one video from the one bus that was attacked and find out if there was a suicide bomber?

The answer seems to be that if there were indeed suicide bombers, then the fear level is diminished because the perpetrators are not "still out there" lurking, waiting to strike again.

London has around 4 million surveillance cameras, there are thousands on the underground, yet we are now being told that they are absolutely useless. If they neither prevent such attacks nor help in the aftermath, then what is the point in them?


HOW MANY BOMBS?

Initial reports suggested there were up to 8 bombs on the underground and 3 on buses. This was later scaled back to 3 on the underground and one on a bus. So there were 7 incidents that never actually happened. Police have said that this confusion can be attributed to the fact that people were coming out of different stations. Furthermore the other bus incidents were "controlled explosions". Controlled explosions of what?

Could it be that the attack was supposed to be larger in scale but further incidents failed to make the right impact?


STATEMENT CLAIMING RESPONSIBILITY

The "Al Qaeda" Statement claiming responsibility for the attacks is being hyped by the media. Just like on 9/11 no one has officially claimed that they carried out the attack. It says:

"The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters."

You have to actively assume that this group are writing in the third person about themselves in order to come to the conclusion that they are claiming responsibility. The same goes for Bin Laden's video in which he "claimed responsibility" for 9/11.


The fact that anyone could have posted this statement and it came from "Arab Sources" is secondary to the fact that it claims nothing. This will not matter though as over time it will be repeated again and again in the media. The government don't even have to officially announce "Al Qaeda" is responsible.

Furthermore MSNBC TV translator Jacob Keryakes, has pointed out that the claim of responsibility contained an error in one of the Quranic verses it cited. That suggests that the claim may be phony..

"This is not something al-Qaida would do," he said.


THERE IS NOTHING FOR "AL QAEDA" TO GAIN FROM THIS

The Financial Times of London reported on the 6th of July that we were pulling a significant number of troops out of Iraq, then 'Al-Qaeda' bomb us, so the troops stay, how does that benefit 'Al-Qaeda'?

We are supposed to believe that Al Qaeda is made up of intelligent well educated, well off individuals who meticulously plan their operations. Are we to believe that they do not comprehend the fact that if they bomb major Western cities they will feel the wrath of both angry Westerners and well meaning peaceful Muslims.

We need to focus on the question of who will gain from these latest attacks and who has gained from the past attacks? Most importantly we must not just accept what we are told because clearly what we are being told does not add up.


JUST THE BEGINNING

One day after the attacks the inconsistencies and contradictions are mounting.




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OH, This is really solid info!

I have not heard or seen any eyewitness accounts stating the presence of soldiers on the streets, but no one is denying it occurred either.

MOBILE NETWORK SHUTDOWN?

I (could) not make any calls for at least two hours?

London has around 4 million surveillance cameras,

WRONG but only by 3.5 million

London charges a fee to cars and also uses the films to catch and fine cheats. In all, there are at least 500,000 cameras in the city, and one study showed that in a single day a person could expect to be filmed 300 times.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB112077340647880052-cKyZgAb0T3asU4UDFVNPWrOAqCY_20060708.html


Both Scotland Yard and the Israelis have since denied that they had any foreknowledge of the attack.

Oh No, Like 9/11 it was the Jooooo’s again, Thank you Mr. Gibson!


Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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Both Scotland Yard and the Israelis have since denied that they had any foreknowledge of the attack

OH RIGHT, SO WE'LL JUST IGNORE THE RADIO REPORTS AND THE ISRALELI NATIONAL NEWS THEN.

In all, there are at least 500,000 cameras in the city.

COUNTS VARY IN THE NUMBER OF CAMERAS OPERATING IN LONDON. ANYWAY REGARDLESS, STEVE WATSON IS RIGHT, EVEN IF THERE WERE 100 MILLION CAMERAS IN LONDON THAT DAY IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONLY ONES WORKING WERE THE ONES THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BOMBINGS.

X

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OH RIGHT, SO WE'LL JUST IGNORE THE RADIO REPORTS AND THE ISRALELI NATIONAL NEWS THEN.

Proove it. And not by linking to a palestinian organisation (whos only goal is to discredit Israel), but linking to a news-report on the Israeli national news website.

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In all, there are at least 500,000 cameras in the city.

Compared to 4 million this is just bad or misleading info and shoddy research.

ANYWAY REGARDLESS, STEVE WATSON IS RIGHT, EVEN IF THERE WERE 100 MILLION CAMERAS IN LONDON THAT DAY IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONLY ONES WORKING WERE THE ONES THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BOMBINGS.

NO AS IN ALL OF TERRORSTORM, THE FACTS ARE FALSE

A closed-circuit TV image released by the Metropolitan Police shows the four London bombers arriving at Luton railway station at 7:21 a.m. local time on Thursday, July 7, 2005. The image shows, from left to right, Hasib Hussain, Jermaine Lindsay (dark cap), Mohammed Sidique Khan (light cap), and Shahzad Tanweer.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/london_bombing/investigation_timeline.html

I guess you will have to find some other way to blame the Joooooo’s but your agenda shows.

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

Jones ‘expert’ John Loftus claimed that initial bombing raids in Operation Enduring Freedom killed Saddam, and revealed the alleged address of an alleged terrorist on Fox News (the alleged terrorist had moved, so the then owner suffered a lot of harassment). He doesn’t bend the facts at all, then.

Loftus also claims that Aswat was “clearly” under MI6 contol. Shame that Loftus doesn’t explain in any detail what so ever why this is so clear.


Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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[deleted]

It's too bad your mom didn't use some birth control before her shift at the whore house.

Wow.... What a low insult!!!

But then again, if you cant dispute his proof and arguments, then you tend to use low insults - other people would acknowledge that they have failed, but you use your kinder-garten trash-mouth...... pathetic.

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No I wasn't addressing his "information" I was responding to his insult in the same spirit that it was given.
Get your facts straight dumbass.

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No I wasn't addressing his "information" I was responding to his insult in the same spirit that it was given.
Get your facts straight dumbass.

What are you, 10???
He didnt adress you with any curse-words.
You defend Alex Jones like a republican defends Bush.


I really dont want to speak with you, you are propably like most conspiracy theorists - not about the debate, only about the insults and having the last word.

please get a job.

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Yes I am 10.
Which "curse word" exactly did I use?
I did not "defend" Alex Jones. I was responding to the infantile ad hominem insults that Masterbateshun seems compelled to pepper his arguments with.

I know you "really don't want to speak" with me (even though you initiated this exchange in the first place!?? DUH!), and the knowledge of that breaks my little heart, I assure you, but I want to try and converse anyway...

Have you ever noticed that it seems that people who like to go around accusing others of being "virgins', *beep* and the like are usually themselves guilty of those very same things (it's as if they wish to deflect or diffuse any perception of those things in themselves by projecting those "faults" onto others first, it's called self loathing , very sad.). Especially when they resort to such name calling in bizzare non sequitar ways (like injecting such remarks into a non related discussion as if it will somehow effectively denigrate the opposition into submission while simultaneously verifying their own view?).
It is quite pathetic.

Oh and as far as "getting a job", another pitiful attempt to insult and denigrate (not to mention an assinine assumption by both you and your know it all buddy there) I'm fairly confident that I earn more per year than what the two of you are capable of combined (not that flipping burgers and cleaning toilets isn't honorable work if you can get it.).

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If being a troll makes you happy, then it is fine with me
Goodbye

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Ouch! Looks like I stepped on someone’s golden cow and was a bit insensitive by pointing out the root of their involuntary celibacy.

This one is more funny than anything and goes out to brunovonmagndenburg

ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

--------------------------

Jones claims de Menezes bought a Metro paper in the station – the Metro is free and the film shows a picture of the Metro masthead, with ‘FREE’ written very clearly on it. Someone included that image, with 'free' on it on a bright red background, and didn't wonder whether de Menezes really had bought his free paper.

--------------------------

Oh and juan-93, there is solid advice to be found in this board, gainful employment need not be your enemy.


Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping people date free since 1996

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[deleted]

P.S. This latest "phun fact" of yours is as full of *beep* as you are being the typical splitting hairs, inconsequential straw man argument that idiots of your ilk love to dreg up.

Hence I wrote this above “This one is more funny than anything ….” But reading for many has a steep learning curve. Keep at it and sound out each big word slowly. You’ll get there, I believe in you.


So in that vein I will confess to my "celibacy" because it's clear that your mom doesn't really count being the lousy lay that we both know she is (though her toothless oral skills are ok.).

Ahhh, So you are into Necrophilia, Sad but expected as the South Park 25% prove themselves every day.

PS: ManCow says hi!


Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping juan-93 date free since 1996

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Tell Mancow I said hi.

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Jones refers to an exclusion zone of several miles around the British parliament, in which free speech isn’t permitted. I presume Jones means the half mile exclusion zone around parliament, where unauthorised demonstrations are banned (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1508595,00.html).

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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Juan93 wrote:

P.S. This latest "phun fact" of yours is as full of *beep* as you are being the typical splitting hairs, inconsequential straw man argument that idiots of your ilk love to dreg up.

If they are so wrong, then why dont you disprove them??

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Jones states after the bombings, Blair brought in loads of tyrannical legislation. Jones shows stories about calls for the banning of types of kitchen knives (which the tyrannical Home Office did not support - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm by the way, the link appears to be to the same story pictured in the film…and Jones could have learned that the Home Office did not support this move if he had only read the end of the story). Jones also show a story about the UK handgun ban introduced after the killings at Dunblane. There’s also a pic of a story on ID cards (which have not been introduced yet). They do bring up the civil contingencies act – well, they found 1 bit of legislation that was arguably introduced in response to 7/7 – but if that’s all the tyranny the UK faces I see no radical change.


Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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According to most conspiracy theorists all radical muslims are CIA-agents.... if Muslims even exist - some CT´s believe that islam is a lie made by CIA... they dont believe that anything exist outside USA... maybe we are even in the Matrix already - controlled by the Jewish CIA ofcourse.

Look at any conspiracy-site - it will confirm it.

But i dont belive that this guy is a CIA-agent:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
or this guy
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EsTpL1iDc1I
Or this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDiC6KVBZUk
or this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOfU7wskFdg
Do you still think that Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11????


But only few muslims are like that. Listen to this muslim... Very wise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKhrPJMRYpo

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if Muslims even exist - some CT´s believe that islam is a lie made by CIA

Man, I was about to rip into you on the above, I have to start reading slower, LOL, You had me for about 30 seconds.

Peace.

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Yes, i am a Conspiracy-basher, just like you :)
I was just making fun of the CT´s.

But seriously, it is hard to believe that Radical muslims didnt do it, when you are watching videos like those ive posted.
The hate is there.


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I watched the first one then remembered your other posts. LOL, Those people in the videos are not happy campers.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting/researching a conspiracy.

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Yeah muslims are pissed because they've been *beep* on by western imperialist and their puppets for a LOOONNG time and they don't have the power or ability to carry out attacks like 9-11 (though many of them would certainly like to as provoked as they have been.

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Muslims????...Muslims....
Is that the religion with all the Pandas, Mushrooms and Targos? Or is that Christanity??

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Yeah muslims are pissed because they've been *beep* on by western imperialist and their puppets for a LOOONNG time and they don't have the power or ability to carry out attacks like 9-11 (though many of them would certainly like to as provoked as they have been.

Are you the King of the Muslims and know what the millions were doing that day or did King Kong tell ya that.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Duh, I like gum. Do u like gum?

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and they don't have the power or ability to carry out attacks like 9-11

Now see, you were over your head here as you can't back up a bit of it, but here, your new question below fits your age group.

Duh, I like gum. Do u like gum?

You are getting smarter, though Jones is still a loon.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Now see, you were over your head here as you can't back up a bit of it, but here, your new question below fits your age group.

No it's just the level of response that you deserve.

But just for the sake of *beep* n giggles let's think about how credible it is that a few terrorists are able to outsmart and get past the most sophisticated defense system in the world not to mention the fact that they so happen to "coincidentally pick a day when an unprecedented amount of drills and simulations are taking place (some of which are of the exact same 9-11 scenario, though later Bush and Rice come out and say they never dreamed that such a thing could happen, as usual a bald faced lie) these drills of course end up adding to the confusion of the day and "inadvertently" contribute to the success of the attack.
Boy Allah sure must be on their side!
Then of course there was John O'Neil, a top FBI agent and terrorist expert who was on to the plot but foiled by the "higher ups" from pursuing the matter.
I bet he would sure have alot to say about the "terrorists' and the ensuing 9-11 situation if he hadn't been offered a job as head of security at the WTTC and been killed on his first day on the job which happened to be 9-11.
Jeez what another great coincidence and great break for those dastardly Al-Queda fiends!
I could go on but I'm sure you've heard it all before and it all means nothing, right?
But let's think about what happened afterward and how the govt. literally had to be pushed into launching any kind of investigation into 9-11 by the victim's families and even then how they hand picked govt. cronie/stooges to do it. White wash anyone?
Yeah there's nothing fishy about that, perfectly reasonable, right?
Or what about the Patriot Act or Military Commissions Act which is shredding the constitution right before our eyes all in name of fighting the "war on terror" and protecting us from the evil Al-Queda and the arch mastermind villain Bin Laden!
Or what about how the "terrorists" hate us for our freedom, if you look into the history you'll see how the govts here in the west have been perfect angels and treated those unreasoning savage arabs to every form of kindness , they have no reason to be upset or pissed at us but still they hate us for our freedom. Jealous bastards!

So yeah I gess we should talk about something you might actually know about...
Do you like gum?

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coincidentally pick a day when an unprecedented amount of drills and simulations are taking place (some of which are of the exact same 9-11 scenario, though later Bush and Rice come out and say they never dreamed that such a thing could happen, as usual a bald faced lie) these drills of course end up adding to the confusion of the day and "inadvertently" contribute to the success of the attack.

You mean those drills that were conducted with matchbox cars on a table in one room of the Pentagon and were not the exact same.?

The fire and smoke from the downed passenger aircraft billows from the Pentagon courtyard.

Defense Protective Services Police seal the crash sight. Army medics, nurses and doctors scramble to organize aid. An Arlington Fire Department chief dispatches his equipment to the affected areas.

Don Abbott, of Command Emergency Response Training, walks over to the Pentagon and extinguishes the flames. The Pentagon was a model and the "plane crash" was a simulated one.

The Pentagon Mass Casualty Exercise, as the crash was called, was just one of several scenarios that emergency response teams were exposed to Oct. 24-26 in the Office of the Secretaries of Defense conference room.

On Oct. 24, there was a mock terrorist incident at the Pentagon Metro stop and a construction accident to name just some of the scenarios that were practiced to better prepare local agencies for real incidents.

To conduct the exercise, emergency personnel hold radios that are used to rush help to the proper places, while toy trucks representing rescue equipment are pushed around the exercise table.

Cards are then passed out to the various players designating the number of casualties and where they should be sent in a given scenario...


http://web.archive.org/web/20041026105828/http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/5_44/local_news/2852-1.html

Stick with the gum.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

PS: Or what about the Patriot Act or Military Commissions Act which is shredding the constitution right before our eyes

Can you tell me what part has been shredded or is this a plea for more gum?

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I know Alex Jones is a loon but these are the drills I was refering to...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/080904wargamescover.htm

Or if you don't care to look it up here it is copied and pasted for your convenience...

Wargames Were Cover For the Operational Execution of 9/11

Alex Jones & Paul Joseph Watson | Updated September 20 2004

UPDATE: Alex Jones Discusses 9/11 Wargames in April 2004 Video

For almost three years since 9/11 independent researchers have stockpiled individual smoking guns which prove that the official version of events was not only a lie but operationally impossible.

However, no single smoking gun has yet been forwarded to explain why air defenses categorically reversed Standard Operating Procedure and failed to respond to hijacked jetliners.

Until now. More and more individuals are looking at the facts and highlighting exercise drills that took place on the morning of 9/11.

It is clear that at least five if not six training exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on the morning of 9/11. This meant that NORAD radar screens showed as many as 22 hijacked airliners at the same time. NORAD had been briefed that this was part of the exercise drill and therefore normal reactive procedure was forestalled and delayed.

The large numbers of 'blips' on NORAD screens that displayed both real and 'drill' hijacked planes explain why confused press reports emerged hours after the attack stating that up to eight planes had been hijacked. Click here for that article.

The drill scenario also explains a comment made by air traffic control personnel which was featured in a July 2004 BBC television report. Click here for that video clip and article. The controller is told that a hijacked airliner is heading for New York and responds by saying, "is this real world or an exercise?"

Alex Jones was one of the first to highlight the wargames in his documentary film 'Masters of Terror', which was released in August 2002. Click here to watch a video clip. Alex explains why the Associated Press later had to admit the fact that the CIA were running drills of crashing planes into buildings on the morning of 9/11.

What were the drills called and what was their nature?

1) OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE: This was planned months in advance of 9/11 and ensured that on the morning of 9/11, jet fighters were removed from patrolling the US east coast and sent to Alaska and Canada, therefore reducing the amount of fighter planes available to protect the east coast.

2) BIOWARFARE EXERCISE TRIPOD II: Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th. This was originally dismissed as a slip of the tongue. Giuliani was to use this post as a command post on 9/11 after he evacuated WTC Building 7. As we reported back in January, Giuliani knew when to leave WTC 7 because he got advanced warning that the Trade Towers were about to collapse. "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse," Rudolph Giuliani told Peter Jennings of ABC News. How did Giuliani know the towers were about to collapse when no steel building in history had previously collapsed from fire damage?

3) OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.

4) OPERATION NORTHERN GUARDIAN: The details of this exercise are still scant but it is considered to be part of Vigilant Guardian, relating to simulating hijacked planes in the north eastern sector.

5) OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR: This was referenced in Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. It is thought to have been the 'attack' component of the Vigilant Guardian exercise.

Another example of how air defenses were purposefully kept preoccupied so they couldn't protect New York was reported by this website in December of 2003. The Air National Guard's 177th Fighter Wing, based at Atlantic City International Airport in Pomona, were just eight minutes away from New York and could have intercepted both Flight 11 and Flight 175.

Under NORAD procedures that date to the Cold War, two F-16 fighters from the 177th were parked around the clock on the Atlantic City runway. Pilots waited in a nearby building, ready to scramble.

But on the morning of 9/11, the F-16's were performing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City after being decommissioned from their usual role of protecting the skies of the east coast.

It was only after both trade towers were hit that the two F-16s landed and were refitted with air-to-air missiles, then sent aloft.

Now that we have established how NORAD were confused, delayed and distracted by the numerous wargames, the next question to ask is who if anyone was aware of which planes were 'real world' and which planes were 'exercise'? The answer to this question will provide us with the name of the individual who ran the operatonal execution of the 9/11 attack.

Dick Cheney.

Cheney was initially taken by the secret service to an underground bunker in the White House called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center.

From there, according to CNN, Cheney directed the US government's response to the unfolding attack.

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

As the plane in question hit the Pentagon, what else can we conclude but that the 'order' was not to shoot down the aircraft and to let it find its target.

Mineta stated that he did not know what the 'order' was because he wasn't there when it was made.

After the Pentagon was hit, Cheney was transfered to another bunker in what the Philadelphia Daily News describes as 'the underground Pentagon'.

Site R, a highly secure complex of buildings inside Raven Rock Mountain near Blue Ridge Summit, Pa., close to the Maryland-Pennsylvania state line and about seven miles north of Camp David, is a 53-year-old facility conceived at the start of the Cold War as an alternate command center in the event of nuclear war or an attack on Washington.

The bunker is built into a mountain hillside and is virtually camouflaged to the naked eye. The location betrays itself by the vast gaggle of satellites, microwave towers and antennae that festoon the perimeter. Inside the facility there are computer filled caverns and communication and tracking technology that would put a James Bond movie to shame.

The entire facility is guarded by heavily armed military police.

Within hours of 9/11 unfolding, five choppers had landed on the facility's helipad and top officials such as Paul Wolfowitz were ushered in to join Cheney in the command bunker.

Site R - also known as Raven Rock or the Alternate Joint Communications Center is from where vice-President Dick Cheney ran the aftermath of the 9/11 attack. Cheney's command superceded the orders of the Pentagon, the FAA or the White House. He is the number one suspect in the murder of nearly 3,000 innocent people.

In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame and drill operations. This meant he was solely in charge of the overlapping NORAD drills and wargames on the morning of 9/11, that prevented Standard Operating Procedure from being implemented, and any of the hijacked planes being intercepted.

The smoking guns of 9/11 are no longer disparate jigsaw pieces that serve to just raise more questions than they answer. We now have a coherent and plausible explanation of how the events unfolded, why there was no air defense response, and a prime suspect as to who executed these actions. The facts fit this version of events.

The 9/11 truth movement has just taken a giant leap towards dismantling the lies of September 11 and finally offering justice for those who lost their lives on that terrible day.



"PS: Or what about the Patriot Act or Military Commissions Act which is shredding the constitution right before our eyes

Can you tell me what part has been shredded or is this a plea for more gum? "


Well I guess if the elimination of habeas corpus doesn't disturb or concern you then please give me some gum.

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Ahh, The 9 minute stand-down, that’s huge considering they had to get to the planes and run a instrument check.

8:37 a.m.

The Northeast American Defense Sector (NEADS) of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) is notified of the hijacking of American Airlines Flight 11 by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) Boston Center Control. The controller requests military help to intercept the aircraft.

8:46 a.m.

F-15 fighter jets are dispatched from Otis Air Force Base in Mass., but because Flight 11's transponder is off, Air Force pilots do not know which direction to travel to meet the plane. NEADS personnel spend the next several minutes watching their radar scopes waiting for Flight 11 to reappear.

It is clear that at least five if not six training exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on the morning of 9/11. This meant that NORAD radar screens showed as many as 22 hijacked airliners at the same time. NORAD had been briefed that this was part of the exercise drill and therefore normal reactive procedure was forestalled and delayed.

The large numbers of 'blips' on NORAD screens that displayed both real and 'drill' hijacked planes explain why confused press reports emerged hours after the attack stating that up to eight planes had been hijacked.

OH THIS JONES MYTH AGAIN, it was called off and the blips were purged a hour before the exercises were to commence.

The FAA believes there is a hijacking in progress and is asking NORAD for support. As the Toronto Star reports, “In a flash, Operation Northern Vigilance is called off. Any simulated information, what’s known as an ‘inject,’ is purged from the screens.” [Toronto Star, 12/9/2001]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a090901northernvigilance

Keep trying or send out for more gum!


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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[deleted]

77 93 were off-course for approximately one-hour, at the wrong altitude, at the wrong speed, without radio contact and it is absolutely insane for anybody to believe that could have happened unless there was a stand down,

Sure Gibby, Or they were highjacked and the target was not the predestinated landing strip. See, If they stayed on course they could not hit the target. Funny how that works.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

PS: Gibby, What was the record for fastest intercept of a plane over North America by Noard in the 10 years before 9/11 and how many intercepts were successful?

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[deleted]

Maj. Douglas Martin told the Associated Press they over 60 times, scrambled fighters and had planes intercepted in the year before September 11th. which is in the 911 commission report

"During 2001, in the months preceding 9/11, the FAA/NORAD response to air emergencies had happened in a timely manner and routine manner in much less critical circumstances a total of 67 times"


YEA AND ONLY ONE INTERCEPT OVER NORTH AMERICA THAT TOOK A HOUR AND A HALF!

--------------------------------------

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts.

Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=3&c=y

This issue attracted many comments from other sites, attempting to themselves debunk the Popular Mechanics piece. 911 Research, for instance, referred to this quote by Norad official Major Douglas Martin, who in an AP story said:
"From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said".
www.wanttoknow.info/020812ap

And from this 911Research conclude:
It is safe to assume that a significant fraction of scrambles lead to intercepts, so the fact that there were 67 scrambles in a 9-month period before 9/11/01 suggests that there are dozens of intercepts per year. To its assertion that there was only one intercept in a decade, the article adds that "rules in effect ... prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts," and the suggestion that there were no hotlines between ATCs and NORAD.http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

This seems reasonable, until you look more closely, because the primary assertion they are objecting to here is that “there was only one intercept in a decade”. And that’s not what the original piece said: let’s look at the key points again.

In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet

Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ,"...
So what Popular Mechanics are saying is that there was one intercept of a “civilian plane over North America” in the decade before 9/11, because all other intercepts were offshore. There’s no direct contradiction with the Douglas Martin quote, as he doesn’t say whether the intercepts were offshore or over the continental US.

It’s not just Popular Mechanics saying this, either. The October 2005 edition of “Plane & Pilot” magazine essentially did the same:
Terms like Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) and temporary flight restriction (TFR) quickly came into widespread use among the general-aviation pilot group. Those terms had been around for years. Military fighters and the ADIZ protected American coasts from intrusions by Russian Bear Bombers throughout the Cold War. TFRs were used for presidential security and other extraordinary events. But they weren’t part of a pilot’s everyday life. You didn’t get intercepted and forced down if you flew through a TFR.

Today, things are different. There’s an ADIZ that surrounds Washington, D.C. In the four years after 9/11, it was violated over 1,000 times. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) has scrambled fighters for intercepts within U.S. borders over 1,600 times. In the year previous to 9/11, NORAD intercepted airplanes in the ADIZ only 67 times, none of which occurred within the U.S. borders.
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2005/oct/busting_tfr.html

The Popular Mechanics claim still seems quite absolute, but then that just means it wouldn’t take much to disprove it. Just find a media report of an intercept, an interview with a pilot who was intercepted when they accidentally flew too close to the White House, anything like that... How difficult can it be? After all, if these 67 scrambles in 9 months were typical, and we’re equating scrambles with intercepts, then that suggests 893 of these events over 10 years. Even if only 10% were intercepts over the continental US, then surely there must be an unquestionable, rock-solid record of one of them, somewhere?

Well, uh, no, it seems not. At least not from the various Popular Mechanics debunking pieces. Alex Jones, for instance, tells us this:
I've talked to pilots who've had radio problems and F-16's fly up next to them. Everybody knows this, not just Maj. Douglas Martin the Public Affairs Officer. ...We have the public record, everybody knows this, this is public knowledge.
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm
No names, no references, nothing you can check, you just have to take his word for it.

Peter Meyer uses the Douglas Martin quote, then quotes an email as supporting evidence:
...Here is the "Key" to unlock the door: The extensive flight logs for 20 years from the 3 military bases in the area and Port Authority responding to air threats is exemplary.

Thousands of sorties run in response to threats, practice runs, false alarms, done weekly or daily over 20 years....
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm
This is a little better as the person making the quote is named, but again, you’re still basically just taking their word for it. (There’s a little more to the email and their argument, but we don’t want to reproduce the entire page here, so zip over to the above site and check it out for yourself. We’ll wait.)

On balance, then, the “intercepts are routine” claim is far from proven, at least in conjunction with intercepts over the continental US. And if there really were so many, then it seems a little odd there’s not more concrete, solid documentation to show it.

What’s more, even if we ignore Popular Mechanics and just consider the Douglas Martin quote, it’s far from clear as to what this actually means. Note that he was talking about the number of times jets were scrambled (and possibly diverted). Could some planes have been recalled soon afterwards, perhaps because radio contact had been re-established? Absolutely, scrambling is only the first step. We don't know how many actual intercepts actually took place.

Another complication is that in the first figure Martin refers to scrambling jets or diverting combat air patrols, while in the second he mentions scrambling only. Is the quote literally correct, or does the “67” figure also include combat patrols that were diverted to a particular target?

Regardless of that, it’s worth bearing in mind that intercepts may not always be successful.
...another federal official said that two years ago [in 2002], military jets could identify and intercept only about 40 percent of intruders in training drills.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35440-2004Jul7_2.html

Some claim intercepts always happened if planes travelled into restricted or prohibited areas, but this isn’t true at all. An FAA rule change from September 28th 2001 makes this clear.

WASHINGTON - The FAA today alerted civilian pilots of their responsibility to avoid restricted airspace and the procedures to follow if intercepted, in light of the Department of Defense announcement that pilots near or in restricted or prohibited airspace face a forced landing, or as a last resort, use of deadly force by military aircraft...

Earlier, pilots who flew in restricted or prohibited areas received a warning from Air Traffic Control and then faced suspension or revocation of their licenses or a fine. Now a pilot faces interception by military aircraft and then a forced landing at the first available airport. The Department of Defense has stated that deadly force will be used only as a last resort after all other means are exhausted.
http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1415

So prior to 9/11 it seems that even flying in restricted or prohibited airspace wouldn’t necessarily result in an interception. Perhaps this process really wasn’t so routine, after all.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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[deleted]

Speaking of gum I notice you have no response for how the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions act is doing away with our liberties and undoing the constitution.
In all seriousness I'm not trying to win an argument here,I don't want to believe this "crazy conspiracy" stuff unfortunately it doesn't seem that crazy to me anymore.
Surely you can at least agree that these new unconstitutional laws that the govt. are putting in place are a scary thing.

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Speaking of gum I notice you have no response for how the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions act is doing away with our liberties and undoing the constitution.

First again what part is unconstitutional, what part is being undone. We are not in total disagreement here but one needs to make more than a vague claim to have a meaningful conversation.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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[deleted]

only 1 plane being intercepted and not routine is false

BACK IT UP! (But your ATC person sure seems to be fake)

Name one other intercept over North America in the time frame Gibby, Last time you could not, no CT'er ever has been able to. You can't. Should be an easy find with a search on the net, I would expect it would make the news.

As usual, If it does not fit you theory, it’s wrong, though you offer no proof it is false.

Now on your nut job Prison Planet Air Traffic Controller, Hordon, that does seem to be fake, go here and run the name….

http://www.natca.org/about/whatatc.msp

Try to make a factual claim once in a while.



whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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[deleted]

YOU HAVE NOT PROVED THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE.....

only 1 plane being intercepted and not routine is false

BACK IT UP! (But your ATC person sure seems to be fake)

Name one other intercept over North America in the time frame Gibby, Last time you could not, no CT'er ever has been able to. You can't. Should be an easy find with a search on the net, I would expect it would make the news.

As usual, If it does not fit you theory, it’s wrong, though you offer no proof it is false.

Now on your nut job Prison Planet Air Traffic Controller, Hordon, that does seem to be fake, go here and run the name….

http://www.natca.org/about/whatatc.msp

Try to make a factual claim once in a while.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

PS:As are the Custom’s Black Hawk helicopters. They have incursions all the time, in and around Washington. Don't be a idiot, a chopper to intercept a jet, look up top airspeeds, once again you are clueless.

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It has been widely discussed in the mainstream media that both the patriot act and the military commissions act are in many ways unconstitutional and detrimental to our liberties.
As a well informed individual I would think that you would be familiar with the concerns that many people are raising over these issues.
The military commisions act has been refered to as the "death of habeus corpus" and this along with illegal wiretapping/spying on U.S. citizens as well as the admition of secret prisons and the use of torture cannot be a good thing can it?
I don't have the time right now to provide you with any specific info/links, but you should have no problem finding relevant material if you care to do your own research.
You can draw your own conclusions as to whether or not these things are disturbing and reason for concern.

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[deleted]

i dont need to name specific planes because its in black n white in the the 9/11 commission report that FAA/NORAD routinely responded over 60 times

Responded does not mean intercept (words are hard for you, I know) but, yes, I know you never feel the need to back up your claims. Once again…..

YOU HAVE NOT PROVED THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE.....

only 1 plane being intercepted and not routine is false

BACK IT UP! (But your ATC person sure seems to be fake)

Name one other intercept over North America in the time frame Gibby, Last time you could not, no CT'er ever has been able to. You can't. Should be an easy find with a search on the net, I would expect it would make the news.

As usual, If it does not fit you theory, it’s wrong, though you offer no proof it is false.

Now on your nut job Prison Planet Air Traffic Controller, Hordon, that does seem to be fake, go here and run the name….

http://www.natca.org/about/whatatc.msp

Try to make a factual claim once in a while.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

PS:As are the Custom’s Black Hawk helicopters. They have incursions all the time, in and around Washington. Don't be a idiot, a chopper to intercept a jet, look up top airspeeds, once again you are clueless.

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[deleted]

It has been widely discussed in the mainstream media that both the patriot act and the military commissions act are in many ways unconstitutional and detrimental to our liberties.
As a well informed individual I would think that you would be familiar with the concerns that many people are raising over these issues.
The military commisions act has been refered to as the "death of habeus corpus" and this along with illegal wiretapping/spying on U.S. citizens as well as the admition of secret prisons and the use of torture cannot be a good thing can it?
I don't have the time right now to provide you with any specific info/links, but you should have no problem finding relevant material if you care to do your own research.
You can draw your own conclusions as to whether or not these things are disturbing and reason for concern.


I have and they do. I am not worried about habeas corpus as that will almost certainly be overturned once standing and a court challenge has been initiated. You are talking of constructive revocation of US citizenship that still has many safeguards before citizenship can be revoked. It’s an overstatement that the constitution has been shredded as these are only two of many areas. The bigger area of concern is data mining and a violation of the unreasonable search and seizure components. It still requires a search warrant to be used, it just can come seven days after the search. To call any of this illegal at this time is a misuse of the term as it is a term of law and legality must be determined.

Data mining it already been challenged and likely will be declared unconstitutional but stands a slightly better chance of Constitutional review than habeas corpus.

Waterboarding, Data mining (what you call a wiretap though in many ways quite different) and interment without formal charges filed within a specific length of time I do find disturbing. The last is also being addressed not that it should not have been long ago. So there ya have it.

And Mama’s did not even have to come into it, LOL.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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I am not worried about habeas corpus as that will almost certainly be overturned once standing and a court challenge has been initiated.

Of course I hope you are correct but I find it difficult to not be disturbed by it in the meantime plus one has to wonder how and why it would come to this in the first place..
I don't think it's wise to take our rights and liberty for granted, like the wise man said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

We can disagree and still play nice!

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We can disagree and still play nice!

Well, then I think we need to find something to disagree about, maybe tomorrow, LOL.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Hey MasterShake, sorry for the previous "your momma" insults and all that, but you don't have to insult us "conspiracy nuts" with your posts based on the fact that we don't see eye to eye. At least our hearts are in the right place (at least I like to think mine is).

I may not be getting laid lately but it ain't cause of Alex Jones!!!LOL!

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People that support George Bush get laid even less than conspiracy theorists.... so dont be troubled.

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People that support George Bush get laid even less than conspiracy theorists

Never did support him, can't stand the guy. (Though I am not claiming to be a studmonkey)

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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I voted for Bush (twice!!!), I would say that hurt my odds of getting laid more than being an Alex Jones listener!

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Hey, you. Mastershakeshun! Pacifist type. Are you thinking "Hey, this isn't MY war." Or maybe you think, "Fifty cents more at the pump is worth my life! Heck, even sixty cents!" Perhaps you've weighed the issues, "Solar Energy... Death in the Sand... Hmmm... Solar Energy.... Death in the Sand..." Maybe you're all set, and you're ready to fight. BUT, should you decide that War is "not your thing," it could help you to know...


The TEN Ways to Avoid the DRAFT

1. Self-Exile (The Canadian Maneuver)
A popular choice during Vietnam. A classic. This is a good opportunity to "see the world." Actually, it's like being drafted in that you get to learn new customs in a different culture, (saying "eh" to indicate that you are speaking, beer drinking as an artform, finding out what a "took" (rhymes with "Luke") is and why you wear it on you head). Plus, there is always the comforting knowledge that there will always be a room (10x10x8) waiting for you back in the States.


2. Physical Phake (The Springsteen Gambit or No-Doze about it)
This is fairly easy. Simply watch 72 hours of TV straight. The VCR is ok, and so are video games, but theater movies are out. The key is the cathode-ray tube. Be sure to sit close to the set. Feel free to eat if you must, and bathroom breaks are OK, but no sleep! Caffeine is totally legal. This must be done immediately prior to your physical examination for the Armed Forces. Try not to yawn when you get there, but don't resist your urge to make guttural moans. The only disadvantage is that coming off the caffeine buzz is liable to drop you into a coma, but think of all the rock songs you can write.


3. Physical for Real (Mono on Mono or "Hello, kiss me... what's your name?")
Going without sleep has no effect on you? You've got the allnighter's tolerance? You're going to need to catch something. Virulent. This can definitely involve some interesting social interactions.


4. Ageification (The Doctor Method...who?)
Age yourself seven or so years in a hurry! This stratagem either requires some very expensive time travel equipment or your girlfriend telling you she accidentally took the Pill out of order and has been eating vitamins for the past week. In any case, an old British phone booth can be substituted for one of these methods.


5. Dopeification (Whajjuu say, man?)
The trick is to balance you inner inner cerebral whirl on the brink of the utmost ultimate hazy high while downing a fifth ducking to avoid that mind-worm and trying to find that mushroom or other tab of the really *beep* up stuff and your third eye is screammmming and your head is hammmmering... and when you wake up in de-tox, the whole thing is over. Ten years ago.


6. Conscientious Objection (The "peace and non-violence, brother" strategy)
Just file for exemption as a conscientious objector. Note, you must prove (with notarized documents) that you've been an objector since age three, have a visible aura, and stigmata.


7. Captivity (Non-self anti-exile)
The default method. See, the draft is a choice. If you make NO choice at all, and just go about your life as usual, you will NOT be drafted! When you don't report to base after receiving your draft notice, the army won't make you fight. In fact, they'll take you to a maximum security penal institution for a nice long visit. (Bonus: free food, shelter, and back rubs).


8. Orientation Rearranging ("Sir, you are one HOT sergeant, sir!")
Under the sexual orientation heading of your draft acknowledgement form, check the box next to "homosexual." You couldn't beg them to let you stay in.


9. In and Out (The Max Klinger Section 8 Clause)
Sure! You'll fight! Report in. Move in to the barracks! You want to fight, yeah. Act enthused... maybe... too enthused. Talk about how you dreamed of this to your bunkmate. Be sure to keep a hollow, far away look in your eyes. It's also a good idea to twitch random muscles whenever anyone is near you. Scream "DIE" very loudly several times during the night. In the morning, say "Sergeant, Satan told me he loves me and is glad I'm here." Repeat as necessary, don't blink, and drool slightly from one corner of your mouth. Once you get to the sanitarium, cheerily convince the doctors you were just kidding and that you are actually quite sane.


10. Violence (The Last Resort)
While attending a student's birthday party during a later week of one of his hunger strikes, Gandhi was offered a piece of chocolate cake by a less enlightened disciple. The disciple then remembered Gandhi's fast and repealed the offer, apologizing. The doctors managed to sew the man's nose back to his face, but Gandhi's lesson to him is well noted. Should you find your back to the wall, here are some recommended guidelines in the use of violence: cause pain, be random, no mercy, hit, yell, kick, cheat, avoid soft things, steroids can help but watch out for liver damage down the road, pinching hurts a lot but doesn't do a lot of damage, be senseless, dominate, dominate, dominate, don't let him get away with that, take the safety off, and there are NO innocents! Sure, you may become the thing you most despise, but at least it's your fight.

Good Luck!

And remember, if things don't work out... don't forget the flea powder.

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Hey, you. Mastershakeshun! Pacifist type. Are you thinking "Hey, this isn't MY war." Or maybe you think, "Fifty cents more at the pump is worth my life! Heck, even sixty cents!" Perhaps you've weighed the issues, "Solar Energy... Death in the Sand... Hmmm... Solar Energy.... Death in the Sand..." Maybe you're all set, and you're ready to fight. BUT, should you decide that War is "not your thing," it could help you to know...

I'm not sure what you mean by all this. Explain, there is no draft.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Hey finlayson101!

What do you make of this video-clip:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTx3Btz4Lhc

Do you still think that 7/7 was an inside-job?

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Sorry to all I have been neglecting my duties in shredding TerrorStorm so back to our regularly scheduled program.

Jones claims eyewitnesses believed that the bombers didn’t seem to know they were carrying bombs in their bags. What would be the typical MO of a suicide bomber, to act suspicious before getting to the target?. Eyewitness testimony can be inaccurate but, given the bombers did not have wires trailing out of their bags or a timer making a loud ticking sound, how can you tell from looking at someone if you know they are carrying a bomb?

Apparently this testimony was one of many “huge developments in the case” or is it a sign Jones is desperate to make a case.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Terrorstorm claims that Mossad had advance warning of the bombings. Terrorstorm pretty much got this right, but exaggerates how much warning they had – while this is disputed, it looks like the London office of Mossad had more like 6minutes warning (http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=9369). To quote Mossad chief Meir Dagan “The Mossad office in London received advance notice about the attacks, but only six minutes before the first blast. As a result, it was impossible to take any action to prevent the blasts.” (http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=9369)

It’s not clear whether Mossad passed this information to UK authorities as quickly as one might have hoped, but clearly a non-specific warning even if given the full six minutes before the blast left them rather short of time to act.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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TIME FOR ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT…………..

(Another funny one, basic research should be a goal, not a luxury)

Jones refers to “the London Police Department”. Does he mean Scotland Yard, or the British Transport Police, There is no "London Police Department” To make a claim, we need to be know who “They” are.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT…..

Jones claims there was Martial Law when there was the Republican convention in New York. Jones knows this cause he was “almost arrested” three times. Must be Martial Law Lite (half the police power, none of the arrests) to “almost get arrested” three times. And all this time I thought Martial Law required at the least a open act by the President that is publicized.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT…..

Terrorstorm accuses the Special Reconnaisance Regiment of killing de Menezes - which is just rubbish, as it was the police who shot him.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Matershakeshun: For Whom the Bell Tolls:

Top 10 Ways the US Enabled Saddam Hussein

The old monster swung from the gallows this morning at 6 am Baghdad time. His Shiite executioners danced around his body.

Saddam Hussain was one of the 20th century's most notorious tyrants, though the death toll he racked up is probably exaggerated by his critics. The reality was bad enough.

The tendency to treat Saddam and Iraq in a historical vacuum, and in isolation from the superpowers, however, has hidden from Americans their own culpability in the horror show that has been Iraq for the past few decades. Initially, the US used the Baath Party as a nationalist foil to the Communists. Then Washington used it against Iran. The welfare of Iraqis themselves appears to have been on no one's mind, either in Washington or in Baghdad.

The British-installed monarchy was overthrown by an officer's coup in 1958, led by Abdul Karim Qasim. The US was extremely upset, and worried that the new regime would not be a reliable oil exporter and that it might leave the Baghdad Pact of 1955, which the US had put together against the Soviet Union (grouping Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Britain and the US). (Qasim did leave the pact in 1959, which according to a US official of that time, deeply alarmed Washington.)

Iraq in the 1940s and 1950s had become an extremely unequal society, with a few thousand (mostly Sunni Arab) families owning half of the good land. On their vast haciendas, poor rural Shiites worked for a pittance. In the 1950s, two new mass parties grew like wildfire, the Communist Party of Iraq and the Arab Baath Socialist Party. They attracted first-generation intellectuals, graduates of the rapidly expanding school system, as well as workers and peasants. The crushing inequalities of Iraq under the monarchy produced widespread anger.

Qasim undertook land reform and founded a new section of Baghdad, in the northeast, which he called Revolution Township, where rural Shiites congregated as they came to the capital seeking work as day laborers (it is now Sadr City, where a majority of Baghdadis live). The US power elite of the time wrongly perceived Qasim as a dangerous radical who coddled the Communists.

1) The first time the US enabled Saddam Hussein came in 1959. In that year, a young Saddam, from the boondock town of Tikrit but living with an uncle in Baghdad, tried to assassinate Qasim. He failed and was wounded in the leg. Saddam had, like many in his generation, joined the Baath Party, which combined socialism, Arab nationalism, and the aspiration for a one-party state.

In 1959, Richard Sale of UPI reports,


' According to another former senior State Department official, Saddam, while only in his early 20s, became a part of a U.S. plot to get rid of Qasim. According to this source, Saddam was installed in an apartment in Baghdad on al-Rashid Street directly opposite Qasim's office in Iraq's Ministry of Defense, to observe Qasim's movements.

Adel Darwish, Middle East expert and author of "Unholy Babylon," said the move was done "with full knowledge of the CIA," and that Saddam's CIA handler was an Iraqi dentist working for CIA and Egyptian intelligence. U.S. officials separately confirmed Darwish's account.'


CIA involvement in the 1959 assassination attempt is plausible. Historian David Wise says there is evidence in the US archives that the CIA's "Health Alteration Committee" tried again to have Qasim assassinated in 1960 by "sending the Iraqi leader a poisoned monogrammed handkerchief."

2) After the failed coup attempt, Saddam fled to Cairo, where he attended law school in between bar brawls, and where it is alleged that he retained his CIA connections there, being put on a stipend by the agency via the Egyptian government. He frequently visited US operatives at the Indiana Cafe. Getting him back on his feet in Cairo was the second episode of US aid to Saddam.

3) In February of 1963 the military wing of the Baath Party, which had infiltrated the officer corps and military academy, made a coup against Qasim, whom they killed. There is evidence from Middle Eastern sources, including interviews conducted at the time by historian Hanna Batatu, that the CIA cooperated in this coup and gave the Baathists lists of Iraqi Communists (who were covert, having infiltrated the government or firms). Roger Morris, a former National Security Council staffer of the 1960s, alleged that the US played a significant role in this Baath coup and that it was mostly funded "with American money.". Morris's allegation was confirmed to me by an eyewitness with intimate knowledge of the situation, who said that that the CIA station chief in Baghdad gave support to the Baathists in their coup. One other interviewee, who served as a CIA operative in Baghdad in 1964, denied to me the agency's involvement. But he was at the time junior and he was not an eyewitness to the events of 1963, and may not have been told the straight scoop by his colleagues. Note that some high Baathists appear to have been unaware of the CIA involvement, as well. In the murky world of tradecraft, a lot of people, even on the same team, keep each other in the dark. UPI quotes another, or perhaps the same, official, saying that the coup came as a surprise to Langley. In my view, unlikely.

There really is not any controversy about the US having supplied the names of Communists to the Baath, which rooted them out and killed them. Saddam Hussein was brought back from Cairo as an interrogator and quickly rose to become head of Baath Intelligence. So that was his first partnership with the US.

[Note: The account in 1-3 above was challenged once I put it up by two retired US government officials who had positions of responsibility in the Middle East in this period. The alternative account of one of them is here. I have to say that their response has shaken my confidence in the foregoing, though not in what follows.

The 1963 Baath government only lasted 8 months, and was overthrown by officers who had been around Qasim. The military wing of the Baath, which was heavily Shiite, was relentlessly pursued by the new government, and was virtually wiped out. The largely Sunni civilian party, however, survived underground.

4) In 1968, the civilian wing of the Baath Party came to power in a second coup. David Morgan of Reuters wrote,

' "In 1968, Morris says, the CIA encouraged a palace revolt among Baath party elements led by long-time Saddam mentor Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, who would turn over the reins of power to his ambitious protégé in 1979. "It's a regime that was unquestionably midwived by the United States, and the (CIA's) involvement there was really primary," Morris says. '
As I noted in The Nation, in their book Unholy Babylon, "Darwish and Alexander report assertions of US backing for the 1968 coup, confirmed to me by other journalists who have talked to retired CIA and State Department officials." It was alleged to me by one journalist who had talked to former US government officials with knowledge of this issue that not only did the US support the 1968 Baath coup, but it specifically promoted the Tikritis among the coup-makers, helping them become dominant. These included President Ahmad Hasan al-Bakr and his cousin Saddam Hussein, who quickly became a power behind the throne.

5) The second Baath regime in Iraq disappointed the Nixon and Ford administrations by reaching out to the tiny remnants of the Communist Party and by developing good relations with the Soviet Union. In response, Nixon supported the Shah's Iran in its attempts to use the Iraqi Kurds to stir up trouble for the Baath Party, of which Saddam Hussein was a behind the scenes leader. As supporting the Kurdish struggle became increasingly expensive, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlevi of Iran decided to abandon the Kurds. He made a deal with the Iraqis at Algiers in 1975, and Saddam immediately ordered an invasion of Iraqi Kurdistan. The US acquiesced in this betrayal of the Kurds, and made no effort to help them monetarily. Kissinger maintained that the whole operation had been the shah's, and the shah suddenly terminated it, leaving the US with no alternative but to acquiesce. But that is not entirely plausible. The operation was supported by the CIA, and the US didn't have to act only through an Iranian surrogate. Kissinger no doubt feared he couldn't get Congress to fund help to the Kurds during the beginnings of the Vietnam syndrome. In any case, the 1975 US about-face helped Saddam consolidate control over northern Iraq.

6) When Saddam Hussein invaded Iran in 1980, he again caught the notice of US officials. The US was engaged in an attempt to contain Khomeinism and the new Islamic Republic. Especially after the US faced attacks from radicalized Shiites in Lebanon linked to Iran, and from the Iraqi Da`wa Party, which engaged in terrorism against the US and French embassies in Kuwait, the Reagan administration determined to deal with Saddam from late 1983, giving him important diplomatic encouragement. Historians are deeply indebted to Joyce Battle's Briefing Book at the National Security Archives, GWU, which presents key documents she sprung through FOIA requests, and which she analyzed for the first time.

I wrote on another occasion,

' Reagan sent Rumsfeld to Baghdad in December 1983. The National Security Archive has posted a brief video of his meeting with Hussein and the latter’s vice president and foreign minister, Tariq Aziz. Rumsfeld was to stress his close relationship with the U.S. president. The State Department summary of Rumsfeld’s meeting with Tariq Aziz stated that “the two agreed the U.S. and Iraq shared many common interests: peace in the Gulf, keeping Syria and Iran off balance and less influential, and promoting Egypt’s reintegration into the Arab world.” Aziz asked Rumsfeld to intervene with Washington’s friends to get them to stop selling arms to Iran. Increasing Iraq’s oil exports and a possible pipeline through Saudi Arabia occupied a portion of their conversation.

. . . The State Department, however, issued a press statement on March 5, 1984, condemning Iraqi use of chemical weapons. This statement appears to have been Washington’s way of doing penance for its new alliance.

Unaware of the depths of Reagan administration hypocrisy on the issue, Hussein took the March 5 State Department condemnation extremely seriously, and appears to have suspected that the United States was planning to stab him in the back. Secretary of State George Shultz notes in a briefing for Rumsfeld in spring of 1984 that the Iraqis were extremely confused by concrete U.S. policies . . . "As with our CW statement, their temptation is to give up rational analysis and retreat to the line that US policies are basically anti-Arab and hostage to the desires of Israel.”

Rumsfeld had to be sent back to Baghdad for a second meeting, to smooth ruffled Baath feathers. The above-mentioned State Department briefing notes for this discussion remarked that the atmosphere in Baghdad (for Rumsfeld) had worsened . . . the March 5 scolding of Iraq for its use of poison gas had “sharply set back” relations between the two countries.

The relationship was repaired, but on Hussein’s terms. He continued to use chemical weapons and, indeed, vastly expanded their use as Washington winked at Western pharmaceutical firms providing him materiel. The only conclusion one can draw from available evidence is that Rumsfeld was more or less dispatched to mollify Hussein and assure him that his use of chemical weapons was no bar to developing the relationship with the U.S., whatever the State Department spokesman was sent out to say. '


7) The US gave
practical help to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq War:


' As former National Security Council staffer Howard Teicher affirmed, “Pursuant to the secret NSDD [National Security Directive], the United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing US military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required.” The requisite weaponry included cluster bombs. . . '


Richard Sale of UPI also reported that military cooperation intensified:


' During the war, the CIA regularly sent a team to Saddam to deliver battlefield intelligence obtained from Saudi AWACS surveillance aircraft to aid the effectiveness of Iraq's armed forces, according to a former DIA official, part of a U.S. interagency intelligence group. . .

According to Darwish, the CIA and DIA provided military assistance to Saddam's ferocious February 1988 assault on Iranian positions in the al-Fao peninsula by blinding Iranian radars for three days. '


8) The Reagan administration worked behind the scenes to foil Iran's motion of censure against Iraq for using chemical weapons. I wrote at Truthdig:


' The new American alliance might have been a public relations debacle if Iran succeeded in its 1984 attempt to have Iraq directly condemned at the United Nations for use of chemical weapons. As far as possible, Shultz wanted to weasel out of joining such a U.N. condemnation of Iraq. He wrote in a cable that the U.S. delegation to the U.N. “should work to develop general Western position in support of a motion to take ‘no decision’ on Iranian draft resolution on use of chemical weapons by Iraq. If such a motion gets reasonable and broad support and sponsorship, USDEL should vote in favor. Failing Western support for ‘no decision,’ USDEL should abstain.” Shultz in the first instance wanted to protect Hussein from condemnation by a motion of “no decision,” and hoped to get U.S. allies aboard. If that ploy failed and Iraq were to be castigated, he ordered that the U.S. just abstain from the vote. Despite its treaty obligations in this regard, the U.S. was not even to so much as vote for a U.N. resolution on the subject!

Shultz also wanted to throw up smokescreens to take the edge off the Iranian motion, arguing that the U.N. Human Rights Commission was “an inappropriate forum” for consideration of chemical weapons, and stressing that loss of life owing to Iraq’s use of chemicals was “only a part” of the carnage that ensued from a deplorable war. A more lukewarm approach to chemical weapons use by a rogue regime (which referred to the weapons as an “insecticide” for enemy “insects") could not be imagined. In the end, the U.N. resolution condemned the use of chemical weapons but did not name Iraq directly as a perpetrator. '




9) The Reagan administration not only gave significant aid to Saddam, it attempted to recruit other friends for him.


' Teicher adds that the CIA had knowledge of, and U.S. officials encouraged, the provisioning of Iraq with high-powered weaponry by U.S. allies. He adds: “For example, in 1984, the Israelis concluded that Iran was more dangerous than Iraq to Israel’s existence due to the growing Iranian influence and presence in Lebanon. The Israelis approached the United States in a meeting in Jerusalem that I attended with Donald Rumsfeld. Israeli Foreign Minister Ytizhak Shamir asked Rumsfeld if the United States would deliver a secret offer of Israeli assistance to Iraq. The United States agreed. I traveled with Rumsfeld to Baghdad and was present at the meeting in which Rumsfeld told Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz about Israel’s offer of assistance. Aziz refused even to accept the Israelis’ letter to Hussein.” It might have been hoped that a country that arose in part in response to Nazi uses of poison gas would have been more sensitive about attempting to ally with a regime then actively deploying such a weapon, even against its own people (some gassing of Kurds had already begun). '


10) After the Gulf War of 1991, when Shiites and Kurds rose up against Saddam Hussein, the Bush senior administration sat back and allowed the Baathists to fly helicopter gunships and to massively repress the uprising. President GHW Bush had called on Iraqis to rise up against their dictator, but when they did so he left them in the lurch. This inaction, deriving from a fear that a Shiite-dominated Iraq would ally with Tehran, allowed Saddam to remain in power until 2003.

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Kinda of off point, You make the assumption that I am pro Iraq war and pro Bush. Thanks for the bump though.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Yes you are right, just because you dont believe in these retarded conspiracy theories, dosent automatically mean that you support Bush or the War in Iraq, or ever did.

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The 10 Ten Reasons Why the US Economy Will Collapse:
(And by collapse, I mean go into a serious depression.)

#1. The United States government is currently running a budget deficit of $1.8 billion/day. Too much deficit will create a weaker American dollar and cripple the US economy.

#2. The US National Debt is $8 trillion+. It has to be paid back eventually by raising taxes.

#3. Oil prices is $60+ per crude barrel, there is a shortage of oil refineries and demand is growing due to more SUVs/trucks.

#4. China's economy is now bigger than the United States and China is now the centre of the global economy.

#5. China's trade exports out-matches the United States (ie. they can build cars/trucks/SUVs for half the price).

#6. English is no longer the international business language. Mandarin Chinese is now more important.

#7. Global warming is causing the US Wheat Belt to turn into desert.

#8. US universities aren't creating enough graduates to compete on the global market. Tuition is too expensive and there isn't enough university professors.

#9. The babyboomers are retiring, creating a shortage of skilled workers.

#10. George W. Bush failed Economics 101. He was too busy snorting cocaine when he was at Yale.

Matershakeshun, your time is nearly up xx

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Sort of off topic again as this is Alex Jones is a TinFoil Hat Moonbat board but I heard it all during the Reagan years (and Y2K, still have canned food in the basement from that one? The studio audience bets yes!)

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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10 More Reasons Why the US Economy Will Collapse:


1. Automobile companies keep laying off unionized workers and moving their factories to China. The only car company building new plants and hiring workers is Japanese car-maker Toyota (which only hires non-union workers).

2. The US government sold off its oil/gasoline reserves in 2002. It no longer has oil reserves in case of a national shortage.

3. American taxpayers have an average of $48,000 in debt due to credit cards, mortgages, university debts, etc. If the economy goes sour and they lose their jobs, they may have to declare bankruptcy.

4. The US dollar is notoriously easy to make counterfeit bills of. Its value of the US dollar is growing steadily lower. Thanks to modern computer printers, counterfeit is very easy to make.

5. The US economy still has not recovered from 9/11.

6. The US economy relies on the consumption of goods at a decadent rate. If something happens that throws the economy for a loop, it can very easily fall into a depression.

7. The US capitalist systems assumes that the United States is at the top of the global economy. It no longer is. China is at the top.

8. Over 60% of Americans are overweight and/or obese. The health problems resulting from their unhealthy diets combined with a shortage of doctors is causing the US healthcare system to collapse.

9. The US government can't afford to pay for its soldiers serving in Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea... as a result, they are scaling back pay, pension and benefits for their soldiers. Injured soldiers have a crippling effect on the US economy and drain precious money from US coffers and families of the soldiers suffer economic consequences because they have to pay the hospital bills.

10. Foreign investors are no longer investing in American companies. They are investing in Chinese companies.

Don't worry mastershakeshun, i heard carboard boxes can be quite comfortable with the right kind of blankets!!! Remember double size, don't forget the wife now.

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Don't worry mastershakeshun, i heard carboard boxes can be quite comfortable with the right kind of blankets!!! Remember double size, don't forget the wife now.

Again, Why do I care. You seem to think it bothers me with a checklist of US problems on a Alex Jones board. You seem a bit desperate to try to hit me with a dart (As I just smile in puzzlement) while not addressing the topic of the total sham called TerrorStorm. (I guess you can’t defend the that mocumentary so you have to work with the little off topic bits you have, good luck with that!)

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Hey finlayson101:
Where did you copy-paste all that text from???


Secondly: You never answered my question to you a couple of posts up. Are you afraid??

Ill just clip it into here again.

What do you make of this video-clip:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTx3Btz4Lhc

Do you still think that 7/7 was an inside-job?

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TIME FOR ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

Jones claims Menezes paid for his ticket with a Metro OysterCard – but these are issued by Transport for London (nothing to do with Metro) and, instead of using them to pay for tickets, you use this card instead of paper tickets.

Can Jones even get a detail right?


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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I'm sorry, but there is nothing logical about the offical 9/11 story given by the government.

According to the official statement, on 9/11 the fires were so hot from each plane's jet fuel that the steel construction melted and the floors gave-way, giving life to the "pancake theory". This would mean that the fires had to be at or above 1535ºC (2795ºF), which is the melting point of steel. The max temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air [a blue flame]) is nearly half that at approximately 825ºC (1517ºF).

FEMA's own final report on the destruction of the towers stated that, "The heat produced by burning jet fuel does not by itself appear to have been sufficient to initiate the structural collapse."

Battalion Seven Chief, Orio J. Palmer, as recorded on the firefighter radio transmissions that were later confiscated and hushed under orders of National Security, relayed that they had "two isolated pockets of fire" in the South Tower, and they "should be able to knock it down with two lines."
The dark smoke that was billowing from the structures is a tell-tale sign that the fires were suffocating, and not raging like the official account would like us to believe. There are no flames shooting up the sides of the towers, and none pouring out the windows of the floors above. Furthermore, there are pictures of people standing in the gaping hole left allegedly by Flight 11, holding onto the bent exterior columns looking down the side of the building - proving the heat couldn't have been that intense.


"But what about all the jet fuel?"
Remember the enormous fireballs that everyone saw erupt from the buildings as each of the planes hit their respective towers? THAT's the jet fuel.

Fuel, along with other highly flammable materials, evaporates fast and burns even faster. When that type of combustible material is packed into a container, such as a metal fuel tank under high pressure, any spark or incendiary device that comes in contact with the material or fumes will create an explosion. The explosion propels the liquFirebreather demonstrating an excellerant-induced fireball.id outward, thinning out the density of the fuel, which allows it to spread out and burn off large amounts quickly all at once. This is easily demonstrated by "fire-breathers". When they spit the flammable liquid into the flame, they spray it with their mouths. This causes the liquid to burn up in the air creating a huge fireball.

In the PBS/Nova special Why The Towers Fell, Professor Jonathan Barnett from the Worcester Polytechnic Institute, who also appeared in the TLC documentary World Trade Center: Anatomy of the Collapse, states: "The role of the jet fuel...although it was hot, it only lasted a short period of time. It's very similar to using lighter fluid on a charcoal fire. It ignites the charcoal and then burns out."

Even if there were "pools of jet fuel", FEMA's own report states that it wouldn't have gotten hot enough to bring down the Towers.

The "theory" put forth by our governmental officials is that the heat produced by the fire in both towers was so great from the jet fuel that it melted the steel trusses & columns, causing every floor to fall on top of one another. They dubbed this the "pancake" theory.

In the 9/11 Commission Report, they contend that the only support columns were on the outer edge of the towers' construction and that the middle of each building was nothing more than hollowed-out elevator shafts. In reality, there were 47 steel-core columns that ran up the center of each building. The steel used for these columns was some of the thickest, strongest steel to ever be used in construction, and measured over 2-feet in depth. The official theory just doesn't jive when these columns come into the picture.

So why would the Towers collapse completely -- nearly the same as free-fall speed -- without any resistance from the ground floors beneath, while leaving none of the structure standing [except for the small beam assemblies at the base], turning the concrete and office furniture into dust and then shredding the occupants to pieces? We all saw the section of the South Tower above the fires begin to tip over the edge, so why did it disintegrate into the collapse instead of break off and tumble onto the street?

And then there's the eyewitnesses...

Scores of first-hand reports by pedestrians, reporters, firemen and police - most of which were televised the day of September 11th and never aired again - confirm the presence of explosive devices that were planted around the interior of each of the Towers. Reports of the lobbies being blown out from blasts occurring in the sublevels of each of the towers were common among FDNY's first responders.

Phillip Morelli, 37, is a construction worker at the WTC who lived through several blasts that occurred in the sublevels of both buildings, which knocked out entire walls in the basement -kiliing, maiming, and injuring dozens of people. Morelli was on level B4 -- 4 floors below ground -- when he experienced several explosions, both during and after the impacts of the planes.

According to 9/11 hero, William Rodriguez, the last person to leave the North Tower alive, who himself rescued 14 people that day, he was in sublevel one and there was an explosion which shook the building and cracked the walls. Seconds later, his co-worker came running in -- on fire with skin peeling off his arms - yelling "Explosion! Explosion!", and then right as Rodriguez had time to process what was going on, a second explosion rocked the building: The alleged impact of American Airlines Flight 11.

On 9/12/01, Fireman Louie Cacchioli told People Magazine: "I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building."

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According to the official statement, on 9/11 the fires were so hot from each plane's jet fuel that the steel construction melted and the floors gave-way, giving life to the "pancake theory". This would mean that the fires had to be at or above 1535ºC (2795ºF), which is the melting point of steel. The max temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air [a blue flame]) is nearly half that at approximately 825ºC (1517ºF).

FEMA's own final report on the destruction of the towers stated that, "The heat produced by burning jet fuel does not by itself appear to have been sufficient to initiate the structural collapse."


WRONG RIGHT OFF THE BAT……

The other lie in the "truth" movement is the characterization of what the NIST said was the cause of the collapse.

1) The NIST NEVER said burning jet fuel was the cause of the collapse
The impacts also spread jet fuel into the buildings. Not all the fuel was used in the fire ball. In fact, eye witnesses say jet fuel was creating curtains of fire as it poured down from the impact zone. But the jet fuel only started the fires. It was never the NIST's contention that the jet fuel brought down the buildings as conspiracy theorists suggest. Conspiracy theorists use this as a straw man. They say the jet fuel couldn't have bowed the columns and sagged trusses. Just as lighter fluid doesn't cook your meat in a barbeque, the jet fuel didn't sag the trusses or bow the columns. You also can't leave this important factor out either. Conspiracy theorists say the columns couldn't have bowed and the trusses couldn't have sagged because the jet fuel wasn't hot enough and was used up within about 15 minutes of impact. That's like saying your meat didn't cook in your barbeque because the lighter fluid burns too quickly. All the jet fuel did was act as lighter fluid and intensify the fire for about 15 minutes.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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On 9/12/01, Fireman Louie Cacchioli told People Magazine: "I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building."

Consider how the conspiracists have abused 20-year veteran New York City firefighter Louie Cacchioli. A People magazine article attributed this quote about WTC 7 to Cacchioli after the attacks: "We think there was [sic] bombs set in the building." But Cacchioli told Popular Mechanics he was misquoted: "I said, 'It sounded like a bomb.' I tried to explain what I meant [after the fact], but it was already out there."

Cacchioli has been contacted repeatedly by people hoping he will say there were bombs in WTC 7, but he refuses to do so. According to the book, Cacchioli is "distressed at the inaccurate use of his name in conjunction with conspiracy theories."

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Battalion Seven Chief, Orio J. Palmer, as recorded on the firefighter radio transmissions that were later confiscated and hushed under orders of National Security, relayed that they had "two isolated pockets of fire" in the South Tower, and they "should be able to knock it down with two lines."
The dark smoke that was billowing from the structures is a tell-tale sign that the fires were suffocating, and not raging like the official account would like us to believe. There are no flames shooting up the sides of the towers, and none pouring out the windows of the floors above. Furthermore, there are pictures of people standing in the gaping hole left allegedly by Flight 11, holding onto the bent exterior columns looking down the side of the building - proving the heat couldn't have been that intense.


Yes, He was on the 78th floor and the main blaze was on the 80th and above, Two small fires, covering NYC In a huge cloud of smoke. Sure, someone must have left the oven on.

The picture of (one person) is one who jumped, was trying to get air, and the claim is so obtuse, in any fire, home, office or forest, you do you not expect hot and cold spots? Fire moves, consumes, this is not a oven maintaining a solid temperature throughout at a given point it time.


whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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I still find it difficult to believe that any fire initiated by the jet fuel would burn so hot as to collapse the buildings in the way that they fell, concrete pulverized etc...
Also this whole matter of bombs is in my opinion beside the point, the real point is not whether planes hit the buildings and the buildings fell (we know this happened for a fact, no question) the real thing to consider is how was it that this was allowed to happen in the first place! Who had prior knowledge and who was ultimately responsible. I may not believe everything Alex Jones and other so called conspiracy theorists say but I certainly don't trust or believe alot of what the govt. and mainstream media says about it either.

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Hallo juan93:

You believe that 9/11 was one massive American conspiracy. That CIA somehow managed to make the biggest terrorattack in modern history, without anything going wrong, without any of the thousands of US-officials, military-folk, police and firemen who took part in this having any moral problems with it. Ok that is your choice of believe.

But then you must also believe that extreme islamists (which has got little to do with ordinary muslims) had nothing to do with the attack. You believe that extreme islamists all want peace, and that all signs that islamists are dangerous are all planted by the CIA. That is what you believe, i can assume, since you believe in Alex Jones.

So, Juan93, Is this man then a CIA-agent?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

Is this woman telling lies?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0&mode=related&search=

Look at Islam all around the world. There are many wars around the world. But can you mention 5, that dosent involve Muslims?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hz-bTNxpApU



Side-note: Have you noticed that this "documentary" have decreased in rate??
It was 8 or so, when only CT´s knew about, now it is 7,1.
My theory is that the more the CT´s advertised for, the more people wathced "Terrorstorm", and most people knew instantly that it was trash. Direct extreme political lies. In any dictatorship, a man like Alex Jones would have been delt with.
And if the USA is such a high-tech dictator-state as some CT´s wrongfully claim, then they would have easily delt with Alex Jones, but kept him alive by mind control, voice copiyng/recognision and other technologies that CT´s claim that CIA have, he would be a puppit, if he indeed were telling the truth about the "big lie" - which i siriously doubt.

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Well Bruno you are also free to believe whatever you please but it is difficult to understand how anyone can think that the increasing assaults on the U.S. constitution and liberty can be viewed as anything but the deliberate ruin of the U.S. of America.
That old argument that if the U.S. were really becoming a police state people like A.Jones would be "dealt" with is a straw man argument.
For one thing he is both too high profile and by the same token too inconsequential to their plans to bother over, though you can bet that they are keeping tabs on him and will "deal" with him (and people like him) at a point in time when most people will have bigger things to worry about like crashing the economy or launching WW3.

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That old argument that if the U.S. were really becoming a police state people like A.Jones would be "dealt" with is a straw man argument.

Well, that is what you CT´s always use, because you dont want to debate it.

Also when we Conspiracy-bashers present evidence, then you dismiss it quickly, your response is: "That evidence is handled by hundreds of government-people with education. And we all know that when you start working for any government-agency you immediately sell your sole to satan - that is a fact. Therefore all evidence you present is false, and all evidence we conspiracy theorists present is per definition the whole truth!"
That is the standard response i hear from you CT´s when Conspiracy-bashers present evidence.

But then there is no dialogue. There is only two deaf people yelling at each other.

You will never listen to our arguments, because your mind is already made up: CIA did it. No matter how much evidence we find, you will still claim to that, because it is religion to you people. You want it to be true, no matter what.

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You will never listen to our arguments, because your mind is already made up: CIA did it. No matter how much evidence we find, you will still claim to that, because it is religion to you people. You want it to be true, no matter what.

Ain't that the truth.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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[deleted]

You will never listen to our arguments, because your mind is already made up: CIA did it. No matter how much evidence we find, you will still claim to that, because it is religion to you people. You want it to be true, no matter what.


Your reply:

You are making a broad and incorrect assumption. I for one do not want the so called conspiracy theory to be true, believe me, on the other hand I have heard and continue to see enough of what is happening in the U.S. and the world to not be able to dismiss the idea that there is something worth seriously considering in these conspiracy views.

You say that among those who disagree dialogue is not possible without degenerating into simple yelling matches. My experience has been the exact opposite from what you state. Usually it's individuals who scoff at the idea that 9-11 was something other than what the govt. claims who are hostile and uninformed, and refuse to discuss the issues seriously.

In any case I do not understand how any clear thinking individual can consider the war in Iraq, the "Patriot Act", Military commisions act 6606, or any of the other constitution destroying actions that the entrenched corrupt politicians of both the left and right (who are really just two sides of the same coin) are using to destroy the U.S. from within can be seen as a good thing or even the same old buisness as usual.

Things are getting progressively worse and that's no conspiracy theory.

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[deleted]

Giovanni- thanks for the debunking I got here looking for just that. There are a couple more claims from Jones' movie and others I'd like to look into. Got anything for these:

1.Chemical evidence of Thermite found in WTC wreckage.
2.Pilot (hijacker) of flight 77 couldn't even fly a Cessna but executed difficult 270 degree turn while descending to a couple of feet above the ground.
3.WTF with the "magic passport" found on the street in NYC the afternoon of 9/11/01 that supposedly belonged to one of the hijackers. That would have been burned and or buried in the debris for sure.
4.After US-CIA support of the successful Mujihadin resistance against the Soviets, why would UBL suddenly turn against the US, a country led by family friends? He was on the CIA payroll in the late 70s and by some accounts much later.


At this point though I accept, with much sadness that the claims about operation Northwoods, USS liberty, Tonkin, the Tuskegee experiment, and a couple I'm forgetting are true. I'm not too sure about the single shooter theory either, "crazed lone gunmen" killing 2 Kennedy brothers is too much of a coincidence for me. Not when I can't get a clear shot at Jr. or the VP with even a camera.

Peace

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1.Chemical evidence of Thermite found in WTC wreckage.

None was found that points specifically at thermite. Sulfer = Drywall. Jones even admits he has not proven thermite. Also Thermite does not cut horizontally.

http://www.911myths.com/html/traces_of_thermate_at_the_wtc.html

AND

Clarification
Jun 20, 2:22AM
Steven E. Jones

[email protected]

Just a quick clarification: As I said in my talk at the Chicago conference, and in my remarks to Alex Jones, the results so far on the analysis of the previously-molten metal samples are PRELIMINARY. I emphasized that, in fact.

The samples are predominantly iron, so we can rule out the 'molten aluminum' hypothesis with a high degree of confidence. There is very little chromium, so that the 'molten structural steel' hypothesis is highly suspect. Yes, there is sulfur – but proving the use of 'thermate' positively will certainly require further analyses and comparisons with samples of known origin (such as thermate-products). And that analysis takes a lot of time, unfortunately. Patience is a virtue.

Steven E. Jones>


Marialaura paints pictures of Oak Trees!

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2.Pilot (hijacker) of flight 77 couldn't even fly a Cessna but executed difficult 270 degree turn while descending to a couple of feet above the ground.

The Cessna quote is before more training, he did pass his commercial pilots test and the turn was reckless as hell, he about tore the wings off the plane. not the best pilot.

-------------------

I guess they had some training on some simulators at flight school and had no problem flying them as well as they seem to. Or did they?

They trained on simulators and small planes, they neither had to take of and land and there was sue of autopilot. Did they have problems flying, see the text in red, plays out just as one would think.


Atta and Shehhi finished up at Huffman and earned their instrument certificates from the FAA in November. In mid-December 2000, they passed their commercial pilot tests and received their licenses.They then began training to fly large jets on a flight simulator. At about the same time, Jarrah began simulator training, also in Florida but at a different center. By the end of 2000, less than six months after their arrival, the three pilots on the East Coast were simulating flights on large jets.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-244.html

In 1996, Hanjour returned to the United States to pursue flight training,after being rejected by a Saudi flight school. He checked out flight schools in Florida, California, and Arizona; and he briefly started at a couple of them before returning to Saudi Arabia. In 1997, he returned to Florida and then, along with two friends, went back to Arizona and began his flight training there in earnest. After about three months, Hanjour was able to obtain his private pilot's license. Several more months of training yielded him a commercial pilot certificate, issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in April 1999.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-242.html
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-243.html

Settling in Mesa, Hanjour began refresher training at his old school,Arizona Aviation. He wanted to train on multi-engine planes, but had difficulties because his English was not good enough.The instructor advised him to discontinue but Hanjour said he could not go home without completing the training. In early 2001, he started training on a Boeing 737 simulator at Pan Am International Flight Academy in Mesa.An instructor there found his work well below standard and discouraged him from continuing. Again, Hanjour persevered; he completed the initial training by the end of March 2001.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-243.html
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-244.html

Jarrah and Hanjour also received additional training and practice flights in the early summer.A few days before departing on his cross-country test flight, Jarrah flew from Fort Lauderdale to Philadelphia, where he trained at Hortman Aviation and asked to fly the Hudson Corridor, a low-altitude "hallway" along the Hudson River that passes New York landmarks like the World Trade Center. Heavy traffic in the area can make the corridor a dangerous route for an inexperienced pilot. Because Hortman deemed Jarrah unfit to fly solo, he could fly this route only with an instructor.

Hanjour, too, requested to fly the Hudson Corridor about this same time,at Air Fleet Training Systems in Teterboro, New Jersey, where he started receiving ground instruction soon after settling in the area with Hazmi. Hanjour flew the Hudson Corridor, but his instructor declined a second request because of what he considered Hanjour's poor piloting skills. Shortly thereafter, Hanjour switched to Caldwell Flight Academy in Fairfield, New Jersey, where he rented small aircraft on several occasions during June and July. In one such instance on July 20, Hanjour--likely accompanied by Hazmi--rented a plane from Caldwell and took a practice flight from Fairfield to Gaithersburg, Maryland, a route that would have allowed them to fly near Washington, D.C. Other evidence suggests that Hanjour may even have returned to Arizona for flight simulator training earlier in June.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-259.html

As I've explained in at least one prior column, Hani Hanjour's flying was hardly the show-quality demonstration often described. It was exceptional only in its recklessness. If anything, his loops and turns and spirals above the nation's capital revealed him to be exactly the *beep* pilot he by all accounts was. To hit the Pentagon squarely he needed only a bit of luck, and he got it, possibly with help from the 757's autopilot. Striking a stationary object -- even a large one like the Pentagon -- at high speed and from a steep angle is very difficult. To make the job easier, he came in obliquely, tearing down light poles as he roared across the Pentagon's lawn.

It's true there's only a vestigial similarity between the cockpit of a light trainer and the flight deck of a Boeing. To put it mildly, the attackers, as private pilots, were completely out of their league. However, they were not setting out to perform single-engine missed approaches or Category 3 instrument landings with a failed hydraulic system. For good measure, at least two of the terrorist pilots had rented simulator time in jet aircraft, but striking the Pentagon, or navigating along the Hudson River to Manhattan on a cloudless morning, with the sole intention of steering head-on into a building, did not require a mastery of airmanship. The perpetrators had purchased manuals and videos describing the flight management systems of the 757/767, and as any desktop simulator enthusiast will tell you, elementary operation of the planes' navigational units and autopilots is chiefly an exercise in data programming. You can learn it at home. You won't be good, but you'll be good enough.

"They'd done their homework and they had what they needed," says a United Airlines pilot (name withheld on request), who has flown every model of Boeing from the 737 up. "Rudimentary knowledge and fearlessness."

"As everyone saw, their flying was sloppy and aggressive," says Michael (last name withheld), a pilot with several thousand hours in 757s and 767s. "Their skills and experience, or lack thereof, just weren't relevant."

"The hijackers required only the shallow understanding of the aircraft," agrees Ken Hertz, an airline pilot rated on the 757/767. "In much the same way that a person needn't be an experienced physician in order to perform CPR or set a broken bone."

That sentiment is echoed by Joe d'Eon, airline pilot and host of the "Fly With Me" podcast series. "It's the difference between a doctor and a butcher," says d'Eon.
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/05/19/askthepilot186/

Experienced pilot Giulio Bernacchia agrees:
In my opinion the official version of the fact is absolutely plausible, does not require exceptional circumstances, bending of any law of physics or superhuman capabilities. Like other (real pilots) have said, the manoeuvres required of the hijackers were within their (very limited) capabilities, they were performed without any degree of finesse and resulted in damage to the targets only after desperate overmanoeuvring of the planes. The hijackers took advantage of anything that might make their job easier, and decided not to rely on their low piloting skills. It is misleading to make people believe that the hijackers HAD to possess superior pilot skills to do what they did.


Marialaura paints pictures of Oak Trees!

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3.WTF with the "magic passport" found on the street in NYC the afternoon of 9/11/01 that supposedly belonged to one of the hijackers. That would have been burned and or buried in the debris for sure.

Keep in mind the highjackers were all in the front of the plane, going from 500 mph to about a dead stop, also I expect you have seen the videos where much debris exited the other side when the plane hit. It most likely shot out before the fireball. It's also not as odd as you think.

ONE


Nothing was expected to survive the breakup of the space shuttle Columbia over the Southwest three months ago. Imagine NASA’s surprise upon opening five canisters that had been found in the debris field — some of the 78,000 pieces of wreckage recovered — and in each, discovering a thriving colony of experimental worms.

The tiny creatures, no larger than a speck of fuzz on a sweater, were part of a study put together by NASA Ames Research Center and Stanford University Medical Center researcher Stuart Kim, PhD, associate professor of developmental biology and of genetics, to see how the worms fared in space.

Tiny C. elegans worms like this one play a critical role in science. Canisters full of the worms, part of a Stanford research project, managed to survive the Columbia shuttle disaster three months ago. Photo: Courtesy of Stuart Kim
"I was very surprised they survived," said Kim of the worms he sent into space. "I just thought that the explosion would melt them and then they would either freeze or burn to death on the way down from the upper atmosphere. Then the impact to the Earth didn’t shatter the canister and spill them all out. That’s just remarkable."

The worms hit the ground with an impact 2,295 times the force of Earth's gravity,
according to a research paper in December's issue of the journal
The extraordinary worms are called C. elegans, and are one of the cornerstones upon which animal studies are based (the others being mice, fruit flies and yeast).

http://news.com.com/2061-11204_3-6016657.html

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2003/may7/worm.html

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TWO

HOUSTON, Texas (CNN) -- Human remains found in a field in Texas late Saturday are believed to be those of at least one of the seven astronauts who perished aboard space shuttle Columbia when it disintegrated nearly 40 miles above the Earth.

Along with the remains, a charred NASA patch and a flight helmet were found on a rural road in Hemphill, east of Nacogdoches, Texas, according to The Associated Press. (Full story)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/02/01/shuttle.columbia/

The patch... Not really burned is it?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2003-02/6472139.jpg

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THREE

Rescuers who reached the wreckage of an airliner that crashed into a glacier-capped Colombian volcano found shards of metal, tattered clothing, photographs and burned money, but no sign of survivors.

"It looked like the airplane exploded," said Marcillo, holding a chunk of the plane in his hand. "There were pieces of flesh. The people were unrecognizable."


Those who had been to the crash site near the volcano's summit reported seeing wreckage strewn over a wide area and dismembered bodies. Local residents who participated in Tuesday's search returned with pieces of the plane and the passport of one of the victims - a Colombian nun.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/28/world/main325854.shtml

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FOUR

NEW YORK -- A small plane carrying New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor slammed into a 40-story apartment building Wednesday, killing both in a crash that rained flaming debris onto the sidewalks and briefly raised fears of another terrorist attack.

Residents were also allowed back into their apartments Thursday, except for the 29th through 31st floors, where most of the apartments were gutted by the fire and a six-story scorch mark marred the red brick.

Hersman said debris was scattered everywhere at the crash scene, including aircraft parts and headsets on the ground. The propeller separated from the engine. Investigators also obtained the pilot's log book.
Lidle's passport was found on the street, according to a federal official, speaking to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860

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FIVE

"Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...

Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.

A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.

In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:tI2PQRqfJiIJ:www.msnbc.com/local/MYOC/M324557.asp

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SIX

Flight 77

"During an interview earlier this week, Koch delicately handled eerie mementos of the crash found during cleanup: Whittington's battered driver's license... a burnt luggage tag and a wedding ring lie on a book dedicated to those lost in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. The wedding ring belonged to Ruth's daughter and the luggage tag belonged to one her granddaughters."
http://onlineathens.com/stories/091104/new_20040911030.shtml

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SEVEN AND EIGHT

The New York Times said at least two items of mail on the 9/11 planes were recovered:

On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound
New York Times
December 20, 2001

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NINE

Satam Al Suqami’s Pasport

TEN
The post card from the Hindenburg. (CREDIT TO Tom_Veil)
Hindenburg Crash Mail
The German zeppelin Hindenburg made sixty-three flights, including ten roundtrips to the United States in 1936. It met tragedy May 6, 1937.
This postcard was part of the mail salvaged from the wreckage. The U.S. Post Office Department enclosed the fragile, charred remains in a glassine envelope and officially sealed it before delivery to the addressee.


http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/museum/1d_Hindenburg.html


Marialaura paints pictures of Oak Trees!

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4.After US-CIA support of the successful Mujihadin resistance against the Soviets, why would UBL suddenly turn against the US, a country led by family friends? He was on the CIA payroll in the late 70s and by some accounts much later.

His family has disowned him. We did use him against the Soviets in the 70's. That's about it.

AS far as his motivations it is to kick the US out of the middle east, not some "they hate our freedom" bumpersticker. He's been quite clear on that, also our support of Israel is a factor.

Bin Laden Claims Responsibility for 9/11

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/30/content_387058.htm

Bin Laden: Yes, I did it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

BIN LADEN ADMITS 9/11 RESPONSIBILITY, WARNS OF MORE ATTACKS

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/binladen_10-29-04.html

From the links

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

The al-Qaeda leader said the hijackers had planned to have all the attacks take place within 20 minutes because they were sure the Americans would react quickly and start shooting down errant airplanes.

Bush's delay "gave us three times the required time to carry out the operations, thanks be to God," bin Laden said.

In planning the attacks, bin Laden said he told Mohammed Atta, one of the hijackers, that the strikes had to be carried out "within 20 minutes before Bush and his administration noticed."

It is significant that throughout the video he uses the personal pronouns "I" and "we" to claim responsibility for the attacks. In the past, he has spoken of the attackers only in the third person.

"We decided to destroy towers in America," he said. "God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind." .



Marialaura paints pictures of Oak Trees!

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Northwoods,

Idea thrown out as fast as it was mentioned. Author of plan fired.

USS liberty,

May be something there.

the Tuskegee experiment,

Total fact, horrible.

I'm not too sure about the single shooter theory either, "crazed lone gunmen" killing 2 Kennedy brothers is too much of a coincidence for me. Not when I can't get a clear shot at Jr. or the VP with even a camera.

I think it was Oswald acting alone but may have been put up to it, I'm open, we will likely never know for sure.

Marialaura paints pictures of Oak Trees!

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TIME FOR ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

Terrorstorm claims that Mossad had advance warning of the bombings. Terrorstorm pretty much got this right, but exaggerates how much warning they had – while this is disputed, it looks like the London office of Mossad had 6 minutes warning (http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=9369). To quote Mossad chief Meir Dagan “The Mossad office in London received advance notice about the attacks, but only six minutes before the first blast. As a result, it was impossible to take any action to prevent the blasts.”

(http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=9369)

It’s not clear whether Mossad passed this information to UK authorities as quickly as one might have hoped, but clearly a non-specific warning even if given the full six minutes before the blast left them rather short of time to act.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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DA DA, ANOTHER TERRORDSTORM PHUN PHACT

Despite all the eyewitness reports of 7/7, Shayler (The lizard Man) focuses on the one anomalous report that suggests the bomb was under a train (metal pointing up). Aside from the possibility this could just be bits of the seat or floor blown in an odd way, isn’t it also possible that the guy was mistaken – traumatized witnesses to sometimes misremember details. Or does Shayler believe one witness over all the others, and the rescue workers, and investigators, who helped on the scene (clearly, MI6 has installed lots of agents as London Underground staff, as Paramedics, etc.)

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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This documentary is basically wrong.

Look at it: Alex Jones claims that the Spanish secret shadow government in collaboration with CIA and "The New World Order" planned the attacks in the trains in Spain.

But there is a logical problem to all of this, a problem i doubt that anyone who believe in these documentaries have the brains to understand. Because if the Spanish government had planned this, THEN WHY WOULD THEY BLAME IT ON ETA AND NOT AL-QUADA?? Because they would have had an interest in blaming Al-Quada if you follow the paranoia-thinking of the conspiracy theorists. The Government of Spain was right-winged, and Spain had troops in Iraq. There was a election in Spain the 14th of March. But the Right-wing government was NOT re-elected. Because people viewed that the Spanish Government asked for the Al-quada-attacks, by having troops in Spain. Study the facts, but not on the paranoid websites Alex Jones provides on his poorly made website. Use the ones that are made by people with education. A left-wing government was elected. They pulled back the Spanish troops from Iraq, and they didn't give Spanish police any more surveillance-authority.

But wait, this doesn't add up to all the paranoid idiotic allegation of Alex Jones and his idiotic followers. That doesn't make sense, because if the Spanish government was behind the attacks, then they would have blamed it on Al-quada, and the Spainish people would have backed up the government. But this didn't happen. Maybe because it is just false.

All the information that Alex Jones provides doesn't have to be false. But he carefully chooses the information he can use, and disregards all the things that disproves his allegations. His conclusions just doesn't fit what actually is happening in Spain now.

When making one of his documentaries, Alex Jones starts with the conclusion, and then finds the evidence to provide the predetermined political allegations.

All the facts can be disputed. And the conclusions are basically wrong.

Why don't you conspiracy theorists just think for just one second?

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[deleted]

[deleted]

You can all se some of the Extreme Islamists here:

http://www.dumpalink.com/videos/Failed_london_bombers_c.c.t.v.-fhgh.html#end&autoStart=0

There was no conspiracy, get over it. It was a terrorist act, planned and executed by extreme islamists. That is what all things point to = FACT.

A conspiracy theory is a political motivated lie, that people WANT TO BELIEVE IN!

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Not that I am convinced to the contrary but even if 9-11 was completely perpetrated by "islamofacists" you cannot escape the fact that radical islam itself exists as an extemist response to western tyranny that has been brutalizing the people of the middle east for many long decades. This is no innocent mistake or unpleasant circumstance that has come about as an unforseen consequence. It is a clear example tyranny that has lead right up to the present unjust illegal and immoral military invasion in the middle east.

You said...

A conspiracy theory is a political motivated lie, that people WANT TO BELIEVE IN!

This statement can easily be applied to the so called official story that has all the brain washing power of the mass corporate media to propagate it.

Learn the history of western oppression in the middle east and realize that the possibility of 9-11 being a mass deception on the western societies is not only possible but likely.

You are also wrong in the sense that I DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE that 9-11 is an inside job, in fact I wish it wasn't but the more I look into it and become aware of events taking place (often from mainstream sources) I am becoming more and more convinced.


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[deleted]

[deleted]

Nope, you people, Juan, wants it to be true.
You people want to live in a police-state. You want the people to be about few people controlling the world.

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[deleted]

Loler why would I (or people like me,average middle class American) want to live in a police state? If I did want to live in a police state why would I be speaking out against it?!
People like me are not behind things like the "Patriot Act" or the "Military Commissions Act" which diminish our liberties or supportive of the notion that we are engaged in a legitimite "War on terror" which is the basis for the very police state measures that are being implemented around us.
People like me are not endorsing the illegal wars in the middle east which in the not so long run will surely be detrimental to the U.S.
Believe me I do not want to believe 9-11 was an inside job, unfortunately there is enough info out there to make it at least seriously considering and I for one am convinced that what ever the truth is, it surely is not what the "official" story claims.

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Because you do. You are a conspiracy theorist, you want to be right.
Also because you only want to speak in these forums under Alex Jones crappy movies really shows that you are a afraid of real debate of 9/11 - which will be found under the "world trade center"-thread. But you never speak in those forums, because you are afraid of debate.

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ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT

Despite all the eyewitness reports of 7/7, Shayler focuses on the one anomalous report that suggests the bomb was under a train (metal pointing up). Aside from the possibility this could just be bits of the seat or floor blown in an odd way, isn’t it also possible that the guy was mistaken – traumatized witnesses sometimes misremember details. Or does Shayler believe one witness over all the others, and the rescue workers, and investigators, who helped on the scene.


HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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Loler you accuse me of simply believing what I want to believe concerning 9-11 (which is false) then you turn around and do the same thing about me! You decide what you want to believe about me and nothing will change your mind, will it?
I believe I have posted in the World Trade Center and the United 93 forums. Unfortunately I do not have the time to visit every single forum concerning 9-11 all the time simply to engage in what amounts to name calling arguments.
You say I am afraid of "debate" which I assure you I am not and you also state that I ONLY come to Alex Jones "crappy movie" forums because I am afraid of debate?!! I posted here (at the crappy Alex Jones forum) in response to your posts, if Alex Jones and his movies are so "crappy" why are you here posting?

If you want to debate let's do it.
Why are there so many ommissions in the "official" 9-11 commission report, such as no mention of building no.7 or where the financing for 9-11 came from?

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According to Wikipedia, Alex Jones believe in this:

Alex Jones believes that certain elements of the United States Government are intent on weakening the United States and its sovereignty. These elements are "paid off" in an effort to shift the balance of power toward the European continent,[2] which is in turn under the control of the World Bank, beyond the scope of nation states.[3] Jones refers to the World Bank and their "minions" as Globalist forces, the military industrial complex or the Illuminati.[4]

Alex Jones believes that unless action is taken, the lower and middle class will be put in a global plantation and the United States will be put under martial law.


Anyone who think such a man is creditable, i just have a hard time respecting - thats all.

But i do think you should debate this in forums, where you can be challenged. Instead crawling to places like this where it is more about telling each how good one another are.

All you answers lies on this site:
www.911myths.com
But i found that most CTs dont want to even try and look what is on, or are simply to biased and accuses the site of being false..... just to keep ones religious view on the state of the world, 9/11, and that the whole world is run by a secret society.

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[deleted]

So let's just take one point at a time...
are you saying there is no Bohemian Grove? Or are you saying there is nothing wrong with what goes on at the grove?
Just wondering how and why you think this subject somehow debunks his credibility?

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I will look at the site you recommend.
I have no "religious" views on the subject in the way you suggest. I am however a christian and the state of the world does seem to be moving in a direction in accordance with biblical prophecy.
See we can discuss things like adults.

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I am however a christian and the state of the world does seem to be moving in a direction in accordance with biblical prophecy.

Yes, that was also what most people said in the middle-ages. They thought that the plaque, wars and crusades all were signs of the apocalypse. And then the Renaissance happended.


But still: Alex Jones believes that "certain elements of the United States Government are intent on weakening the United States and its sovereignty. These elements are "paid off" in an effort to shift the balance of power toward the European continent, which is in turn under the control of the World Bank, beyond the scope of nation states."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio%29
The man actually believe in such laughable things. And yet you people dont question the sanity of his beliefs. You believe in his theories blindly.

Do you really think that some parts of the US-government is trying to hand over all of the USA to Europa??
Do you??
That sounds like fiction - very poor fiction.

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TIME FOR ANOTHER TERRORSTORM PHUN PHACT!

Jones claims after the bombings, Blair brought in loads of tyrannical legislation.

TerrorStorm shows stories about calls for the banning of types of kitchen knives (which the tyrannical Home Office did not support -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm

by the way, the link appears to be to the same story pictured in the film…and Jones could have learned that the Home Office did not support this move if he had only read to the bottom of the story.

They also show a story about the UK handgun ban introduced after the killings at Dunblane totally unrelated to 7/7.



HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm

Please tell me where it says "Home Office did not support this move"?

It seems to me you're just spreading lies and you have some incredible fascination with Alex Jones.


We could smell you a mile away.

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Please tell me where it says "Home Office did not support this move"?

Read it, they did not support any new legislation.

Government response

Home Office spokesperson said there were already extensive restrictions in place to control the sale and possession of knives.
"The law already prohibits the possession of offensive weapons in a public place, and the possession of knives in public without good reason or lawful authority, with the exception of a folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three inches.

"Offensive weapons are defined as any weapon designed or adapted to cause injury, or intended by the person possessing them to do so.

"An individual has to demonstrate that he had good reason to possess a knife, for example for fishing, other sporting purposes or as part of his profession (e.g. a chef) in a public place.

"The manufacture, sale and importation of 17 bladed, pointed and other offensive weapons have been banned, in addition to flick knives and gravity knives."


So much for Jones's claim that this was aimed at new legislation for a police state.


What I say is very baffling!

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[deleted]

I was looking at this film critically.
And i must say: if you dont study what Alex Jones tries to lie about, then it is easy to get lured into his web of lies.

But Terrorstorm talks about an attack 15 minuttes in. And links to this BBC-article, 1980: Bologna blast leaves dozens dead:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/2/newsid_4532000/4532091.stm

Nothing in the Article confirms any of Alex Jones Claims.... Jones links to the article as though it confirmed his claim of the italian-shadow-government/ Illuminati attacking - he says it prooven in the article, but it dosent.
He lies.

Then why should we believe anything in the rest of the movie??


Conspiracy Theorism: The Olympics of the Village-Idiots since 1963

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Not that I am convinced to the contrary but even if 9-11 was completely perpetrated by "islamofacists" you cannot escape the fact that radical islam itself exists as an extemist response to western tyranny that has been brutalizing the people of the middle east for many long decades.

Yes we can, because it's 100% untrue.

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Terrorstorm reaches the conclusion that US, UK and Israeli forces have been caught repeatedly conducting terrorist attacks in Iraq, to keep the war going. No evidence of this claim is supplied for this accusation what so ever.

This Post Will be deleted by Stewart-18 or his socks in the next 24 hours, LOL!

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Terrorstorm reaches the conclusion that US, UK and Israeli forces have been caught repeatedly conducting terrorist attacks in Iraq, to keep the war going. No evidence of this claim is supplied for this accusation what so ever.


as always, Alex Jones dont have evidence, but speculations and endless hate towards the western civilisation.

But if we took it down a level from the paranoid level to reason: why should USA and Co. attack itself also in Iraq?
That is stupid, no, that is totally retarded from any sane point of view.
The more attacks, the more american deaths, the more unpopular the american system gets - so why should any americans in power want that?

The more attacks the less oil we get: pretty stupid.
the more attacks, the more arabs die, and USA will be hated even more, so that not even the Arab-dictatorships, who are friends with the west, will listen or follow USA in the future: that is totally stupid.

What AJ says is retarded beyond Neanderthal-level.

I know what AJ says that USA wants: to make the Arabs kill each other, because the evil American Shadow government wants to sacrifice people to a babylonian sun-god, because the global-nazi-elite are decented of Babylonian-sun-priests (im not lying, that is what AJ believes). And the global elite wants many people to die, to apease their god.... and they want to weaken all other major powers (Muslims being the last power), until the global elite can inetiate doomsday in 2012, where 90 % of all people will be killed in concentration camps (im not lying, that is what Alex Jones believes blindly in).
But the worst thing is that his retarded and loud-mouthed cult-followers cant see that it is totally absurd.

Mastershake; we have to educate people to what Alex Jones believes in. People have to know what AJ stands fot, the next time lo10shun posts some of AJ advertising. People have to know that AJ truely believes that George Bush and followers are trying to kill all people because of their Babylonian sun-god-beliefs.
People have to see the magnitude of stupidity of the CT´s, before they are ensnared in the web of lies of the CT´s.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Nice!

Stewie, Since you think Saddam was a man in death, was Liviu Librescu!

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[deleted]

Hey Mastershake can you tell me why you have such a desire to try to debunk anyone and everyone's opinion if it goes against the grain of the establishment? I noticed that you mainly talk to others with dissenting voices about political issues which is more than suspicious to me.

Anytime anyone takes alot of energy to try and debunk dissenting opinions makes me believe they are really brainwashed or on the employ of the criminal government.

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Hey Mastershake can you tell me why you have such a desire to try to debunk anyone and everyone's opinion if it goes against the grain of the establishment?

I am a dissenting voice politically, it's not because it goes against the grain, it's because it is false. Prove me wrong, attack a claim.

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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Bump For Glory!

Free The Chasers!

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Some of you people/organizations/whatever are putting a little too much of your energy into these rabid debunking efforts of yours. If Jones is really such a "nut", why not just ignore and dismiss him? I've found several of his claims to be untrue myself, but I'm not posting messages regarding these every ten minutes. Your efforts (you know who you are) almost seem *desperate*. A lifetime of novel-writing has taken less effort! Just seems insanely unhealthy. Go plant a damn tree or something.

"I have to start eating at home more." - Jeffrey Dahmer

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I hate trees!

Free The Chasers!

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American ghoul the reason why he is posting them is because Alex Jones does have millions of followers who don't think that he is a nut. And he is just trying to set the record straight whats wrong with educating people. The problem is people see one video by alex jones or (loose change) and they just accept it MasterHaton is simply educating people on the misleading's that they use.

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other "funny facts"

1. Osama Bin Ladin visited Dubai and met a CIA agent in July of 2001, and was receiving dialysis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of Sept 10.

2. Airplane black boxes were found at ground Zero, and their existence is denied in the 9/11 Commission Report

3. Anthrax mailings (which suspended the earliest 9/11 investigations - were traced back to US military stock) - then the FBI approved destruction of Ames strain samples in October of 2001

4. ISI, allegedly wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta just prior to Sept . 11th through Omar Saeed Sheikh (later arrested for the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl-who was investigating ISI connections to Al-Qaieda..hmm funny how Bhutto got offed, too, isnt it?)

5. major conflicts of interests with 9/11 Commission. The families calling for resignation of Exec. Director Philip Zelikow (Bush Admin member and close associate of Condi Rice). these efforts were snubbed. Max Cleland resigned, condemning the whole thing as a "scam" and "whitewash".

6. Major witnesses, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed and Ramzi Binalshibh were reported to have been captured in 02 and 03 (one Pakistani newspaper said Mohammed was killed in an attempted capture). Both have been held at undisclosed locations and their supposed testimony. The Commission's repquest to see them in person was denied!?

7. Eliot Spizer snubbed pleas by N.Y. citizens to open 9/11 as a criminal case.
Spitzer refused to allow former 9/11 Commission staff member to testify in Congress about keeping "Able Danger" entirely out of the final Commission report.

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Osama Bin Ladin visited Dubai and met a CIA agent in July of 2001, and was receiving dialysis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of Sept 10.

Wrong.

First: the account is unsourced. Who is this person making the claim? We don't know. It's a report of what the freelance writer Alexandra Richard says she's been told by this unnamed person. Is her account accurate? Is the unnamed persons account accurate? There's no way to tell.

Second: it was unconfirmed. One or two other newspapers ran it, but they just reproduced what Le Figaro had already said. There was no independent confirmation, at least initially. And actually, an online translation uses the headline "CIA Agent Allegedly Met bin Ladin" ( http://www.tenc.net/misc/lefigaro.htm ), which if true sounds a little different.

The hospital denied it.

Bernard Koval, the director of the hospital, also denied the terrorist had been a patient there, saying "Osama bin Ladin has never been here. He's never been a patient and he's never been treated here. We have no idea of his medical condition. This is too small a hospital for someone to be snuck through the backdoor."
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/kidney.htm

It could be argued that "they would say that, wouldn't they", and we'd tend to agree. But then why would this "partner of the hospital administration" choose to speak out?

On a similar question of motive, is it really plausible that the CIA's main man in Abu Dhabi would "brag" about meeting bin Ladin? And that those friends would report this to the press? And that the only person in the world to pick up on this was a freelance writer in a French newspaper?


Fourth, despite it being such a common allegation, there’s actually no real evidence that bin Ladin has been on dialysis at all, and plenty of people (including bin Ladin himself) who suggest it’s unlikely, as Richard Miniter explained in the Washington Times.



matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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Airplane black boxes were found at ground Zero, and their existence is denied in the 9/11 Commission Report

Wrong, the one at the Pentagon was ripped apart, you think they will survive 500,000 tons of building debris falling.

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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3. Anthrax mailings (which suspended the earliest 9/11 investigations - were traced back to US military stock) - then the FBI approved destruction of Ames strain samples in October of 2001

Yes, And the government admits it most likely is someone from the lab that had access and was a domestic incident. So what, they never caught the Tylenol killer or the Zodiac either. What's your point.

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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ISI, allegedly wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta just prior to Sept . 11th through Omar Saeed Sheikh

So, If Sheikh did transfer at least $100,000 to Atta, in the summer of 2000, and he did so at the instigation of Mahmoud Ahmed, the head of Pakistan’s ISI, what does this prove? It’s no secret that Pakistan has supported Islamist groups for a very long time, so the idea that at least one General was connected to an al Qaeda plot shouldn’t be a great surprise.

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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Hey I am just laughing at the way that all of you are arguing with this government disinformation agent called MasterShaker and falling right into his trap. I mean this is what this guy is, he has been arguing this thread for over a year and a half, any normal truther knows that this can be described as "over passionate".

Just ignore him, he is the typical disinfo agent, you show him evidence and he refutes your argument by negating your sources and ignoring the information.

Well Master shaker I leave you to your lonely thread. This is the first and only reply by me you sad little man. :))

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Just ignore him, he is the typical disinfo agent, you show him evidence and he refutes your argument by negating your sources and ignoring the information.

One could read through the thread and see how the joke of a film has been debunked but that would take time.........

Could you explain to me Jones claim that 7/7 helped Blair in the elections when they had already occurred some three weeks prior?

Trubl_Makr - Attention CBS: Bring back Walker, Texas Ranger! WTR is my favourite show

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[deleted]

Bump!

Andromeda KKKs – The Eva Braun for a New Millennium!

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5. major conflicts of interests with 9/11 Commission. The families calling for resignation of Exec. Director Philip Zelikow (Bush Admin member and close associate of Condi Rice). these efforts were snubbed. Max Cleland resigned, condemning the whole thing as a "scam" and "whitewash".

Yes, He has been a opponent of Bush for some time and there was a disagreement over the amount of classified security information made available. Looks like sour grapes over Iraq, which I have no problem with but it's not a 9/11 inside job issue.


"As each day goes by, we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11 than it has ever admitted," Cleland told the New York Times (10/26/03).

"Let's chase this rabbit into the ground here," Cleland said in an interview. (Salon, November 2003) "They had a plan to go to war, and when 9/11 happened that's what they did. They went to war." He called this "a national scandal." Cleland compared the Kean Commission to the earlier investigation of the Kennedy Assassination. "The Warren Commission blew it. I'm not going to be part of that. I'm not going to be part of looking at information only partially. I'm not going to be part of just coming to quick conclusions. I'm not going to be part of political pressure to do this or not do that."

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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6. Major witnesses, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed and Ramzi Binalshibh were reported to have been captured in 02 and 03 (one Pakistani newspaper said Mohammed was killed in an attempted capture). Both have been held at undisclosed locations and their supposed testimony. The Commission's repquest to see them in person was denied!?

Ahh, One is dead? Perhaps no one can see him. "in person" being the big word here, they don't let very many people in gitmo. So, what does this prove?

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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7. Eliot Spizer snubbed pleas by N.Y. citizens to open 9/11 as a criminal case.

Perhaps because the case is solved.

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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"Osama Bin Ladin visited Dubai and met a CIA agent in July of 2001, and was receiving dialysis in a Pakistani military hospital on the night of Sept 10.

Wrong.

First: the account is unsourced. Who is this person making the claim? We don't know. It's a report of what the freelance writer Alexandra Richard says she's been told by this unnamed person. Is her account accurate? Is the unnamed persons account accurate? There's no way to tell.

Second: it was unconfirmed. One or two other newspapers ran it, but they just reproduced what Le Figaro had already said. There was no independent confirmation, at least initially. And actually, an online translation uses the headline "CIA Agent Allegedly Met bin Ladin" ( http://www.tenc.net/misc/lefigaro.htm ), which if true sounds a little different.

The hospital denied it.

Bernard Koval, the director of the hospital, also denied the terrorist had been a patient there, saying "Osama bin Ladin has never been here. He's never been a patient and he's never been treated here. We have no idea of his medical condition. This is too small a hospital for someone to be snuck through the backdoor."
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/kidney.htm

It could be argued that "they would say that, wouldn't they", and we'd tend to agree. But then why would this "partner of the hospital administration" choose to speak out?

On a similar question of motive, is it really plausible that the CIA's main man in Abu Dhabi would "brag" about meeting bin Ladin? And that those friends would report this to the press? And that the only person in the world to pick up on this was a freelance writer in a French newspaper?


Fourth, despite it being such a common allegation, there’s actually no real evidence that bin Ladin has been on dialysis at all, and plenty of people (including bin Ladin himself) who suggest it’s unlikely, as Richard Miniter explained in the Washington Times.



matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess."

my son, you argue for a family with

1.known connections to the Nazi's (Prescott Bush-Averill Harriman, 1926-41) when it was identified and assets seized by FDR

2. has ransacked the Pentagon

3. allowed and profitted from 9/11 with corporate campaign funders awash in no bid contracts (known fact, so dont try to dispute it)

4. had Bin Laden as a contract agent. Bhutto to announce Bin Laden was dead - and of course, she is assassinated.

and the last thing - before you pull the "kook" card.

ask yourself this, Einstein?

Who sold the blueprints for Nuclear Technology to Iran in the first place, dipstick? and who profitted by 9/11? Oil Companies? Duh - who had Bin Laden Bros. as partners in Arbushto?

you're in way above your head.

go back to Aqua Teen Hunger Force, "Master Shake"!

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[deleted]

Yes, I've read about the Herriman-Prescott Bush connection.

It was shrouded in the Skull & Bones "The Order" connection that included Harold Stanley (of Morgan Stanley), Prescott Bush Sr., George Herbert Walker, and McGeorge Bundy.

This order was founded originally in Germany, and its method of accumulating power, wealth and the inducement of controlled conflict between opposing individuals, businesses and states.

The Order was to include elite children of the Anglo-American Wall Street Banking Establishment. Dating far back as 1831 - William Hunting Russell left yale and spent a year studying in Germany. He studied the scientific method (Hegelian dialectic) to create a pre-determined outcome. This vision was that individuals are granted freedos based on obeience to the state, controlled conflict by an intellecutal elite to produce these outcomes.

*opposing forces, secrecy in regard to the banks are providing funds to both of those in conflict. This learning would culminate in a continuity of chains of influence.

This end game would be to create a New World Order, and make the Bonesmen (Skull and Bones Members) incredibly rich.

There was funding for the American Civil War, the elimination of state-chartered Free Banking and the establishment of centralized national banking. These private national banks loaned money to both the Union and the Confederacy.

so, fast forward to the 30s, and bush, Harriman and Rockefeller established themselves as enemies of democracy by going into business with Hitler and importing Nazism to the United States. Bush was still in business via the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line, which was confiscated by the government of the United States. These is even speculation, that Hoover identified them.

try to google John Loftus (former U.s. Dept of Justice Nazi war Crimes prosecutor and President of the Florida Holocaust Museum)

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/bush_nazis.html

He claimed that Fritz Thyssen and the Nazi party obtained early financing from the Brown Bros, Harriman, and its affiliate, the Union Banking Corporation.

The Nazi-front companies, Brown Bros. Harrim, Union Banking Cororation were controlled by men belonging to the American chapter of Skull and Bones.


Bush and Harriman were connected with IG Farben (the company that developed poison gas to kill Russians, gypsies and Jews).

there is a book rumored to exist in 1933 (published in Holland) called De Geldbronnen van Het Nationaal-Socialisme (Drie Gesprekken Met Hitler)-
in this book, it claimed that Hitler's rise to power was aided directly by Wall Street Bankers, industrialist and oil companies between the years 1929-1932.

The connections are disturbing. I dont quite think you can make the full scale connection of Nazi-Prescott Bush to George Bush and 9/11, but the origins of a New Order, and the lucid connections between banking-oil and war profiteering on a corporate scale (through no-bid contracts for Bush election funded corporations) is compelling.

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my son, you argue for a family with

Does not change the facts, just shows you value your bias above the truth.

you're in way above your head.

LOL

known connections to the Nazi's (Prescott Bush-Averill Harriman, 1926-41) when it was identified and assets seized by FDR

And this has what to do with 9/11? You are a few years off.

matt2873 - Why....oh why you morons defer to 'experts' is anyone's guess.

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Yup, Alex Jones does make things up.

akwilks2002 - No your lame.

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The worst parts are in his latest flick: endgame.
The first 25 minutes are full of so many historical lies.
All what he claims in those documentaries are contradicted by ALL the history-books in the world.
Also the claims in all his movies are false or taken out of context. Most times he refers to newspaper articles and so on, then it is articles where what he says is not in the text. Or the statement have been taken back by the newspaper, because of new information.

The worst thing is that Alex Jones followers never realizes this.

Alex Jones fills them with lies and hate. He says that they should buy guns, or hold on to them they have, so that they can "take back the country".
It is sick. Alex Jones is a psychopath, who one day will do a massacre on some politicians in Washington.
If he succeeds, then his goal of revenge because of Waco is fulfilled. If he Dies, he becomes a martyr for his followers.

Alex Jones is a dangerous man.
A man like Jim Jones of peoples temple:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peoples_Temple

He is dangerous. And i am afraid that his destiny will be much like Jim Jones and peoples temple - just bloodier.

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are you connected to this government,.? subcontracting? or with the mosaadd?

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[deleted]

Bump for the tough guy!

Andromeda_XO-Hates Jews and Gays, Loves fans of the kinder!

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master *beep* is government,.

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The question was ...

would you like to meet and discus this,.?

Sure, Want my address Nancyboy, another tough punk behind his keyboard.


Is this put a skirt on day at your Jr high?


Jeromes Favorite Dream -

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[deleted]

I like how he set up David Shayler to be some kind of martyr who was ruthlessly being suppressed for trying to tell the truth about MI6 when if you ask any Briton who knows who David Shayler is will tell you he will do anything and say anything to make a big wad of cash. The fact is he wasn't imprisoned for speaking out about MI6 trying to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi, he was imprisoned for selling classified documents to the press. He also claims to be the messiah, which he worked out after taking a huge amount of mind altering drugs...

Alex Jones may be right about some issues but he spreads his word in such a heavy handed way that no one in their right mind would believe him anyway. Take two situations. In situation 1 we're sitting in a pub, having a casual drink when I slip into the conversation "hey, you know theres a world wide conspiracy called the New World Order who plan to destroy our civil liberties and make us their slaves?" "really?" "oh yes, you can read all about it on my website." In situation 2 I stagger into the pub with a megaphone and scream into your face "WE WILL NOT GIVE IN TO YOUR ILLUMINATI MASTERS! PRISONPLANET.COM! DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER! DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!". Which one are people going to think may be right and which one is made up by a nutter?

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