MovieChat Forums > Terrorstorm (2006) Discussion > how to discredit charlie sheen

how to discredit charlie sheen


when mainstream media tried to discredit charlie sheen they just should have mentioned that this is a guy who once seriously believed that a japanese horror movie called "flowers of flesh and blood" was a genuine snuff film, he even called the fbi and pressed them for an investigation. it's amazing what smoking pot can do to the human mind.

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[deleted]

Wow, you couldn't have picked a worse place to say that. Who are you, Osama?

"When there is any doubt, there is no doubt; that's the first thing they teach you"

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no, I'm one of those guys who believes that Sadam Hussein deserves life.

and why would osama try to discredit sheen? get your ideologies straight.

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When you have pounds of blow and the little head is thinking hookers full time what is the point of thinking with the big head?

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Just as Charlie himself said, people are avoiding the real issue by attacking him personally. I don't care if he's a *beep* murderer, it doesn't change the fact that we are being lied to by our government. Maybe if people cared more about each other, the planet, and themselves, and less about the lives of celebrities they'll never meet, we wouldn't be living in a dictatorship. Yeah, I said dictatorship. As Alex Jones pointed out, when your president doesn't have to obey the same laws as everyone else, you are not living in a democracy. And as I have pointed out elsewhere, when the person who gets the most votes (Al Gore in 2000) does not win the election, IT IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!

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Ah, The great USofA, where we elect our dictators every four years. Power to the people

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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Correction, they let us THINK we elected our dictator.

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Who are THEY Juan, Crab People, Tell me, I could use the laugh.

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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[deleted]

>>1. If this was done as a False Flag Operation, what is the significance of the relatively small in the (grand scheme of things) WTC7, If you drop the Huge WTC1 & 2 (think back to those images on TV the first time you saw them) did Bush have some mathematical formula that said the US population would not support a war in Iraq unless WTC7 was dropped also?

The purpose was for the owner of the buildings to receive the insurance money. By the way, the owner has been quoted as saying, on film, that they "pulled" the building. "Pulled" is another way of saying "demolished".

>>2. Why drop the penthouse through WTC7’s roof 5 seconds before you drop WTC7. If you are going to bring the whole thing down in five seconds why do all the work to drop the penthouse through the roof a mere five seconds earlier?

Not sure, but logic would point to trying to cover up the fact that it was a controlled demolition.

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The purpose was for the owner of the buildings to receive the insurance money. By the way, the owner has been quoted as saying, on film, that they "pulled" the building. "Pulled" is another way of saying "demolished".

Wrong and so debunked.

“pull it” isn’t commonly used slang for demolition at all. And Reijden, despite believing it’s most likely that WTC7 was demolished by explosives, doesn’t accept that Silverstein’s quote is in itself evidence of that. He reports:

I mailed Jowenko BV and asked if 'pull' was an industry term for 'demolish'. They said it wasn't. Implosionworld said the same thing. I run into the same problem when looking into different dictionaries. There is always a distinction made between 'pull down', 'pull away' and 'pull back'. And I have not been able to find one person on the internet who uses this word as a substitute for 'demolish'.
So I think it's safe to assume that Larry needs to clarify what he meant, but unfortunately he refuses to do that.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050327052408/http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/911_my_own_review.htm#222

Those sceptical of the “pull=demolish” idea suggest that “pull it” could mean “pull a firefighting operation”, instead. And even sites collecting examples to show that it is a demolition term (see http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/wtc7/pullit.html, for instance), offer some support for this idea. Note how that page also contains the following quotes referring to the firefighters (our emphasis on the words in bold):

...they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too...

Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out?
Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back.

On the pull it statement

On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue:

Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducted a thorough investigation of the collapse of all the World Trade Center buildings. The FEMA report concluded that the collapse of Seven World Trade Center was a direct result of fires triggered by debris from the collapse of WTC Tower

In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.

Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building.
http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html



ProffessorJones, The only CT'er who has my full respect!

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The purpose was for the owner of the buildings to receive the insurance money.

So he could loose money, that is bad business!

In its court papers, Swiss Re shows how Silverstein first tried to buy just $1.5 billion in property damage and business-interruption coverage. When his lenders objected, he discussed buying a $5 billion policy. Ultimately, he settled on the $3.5 billion figure, which was less than the likely cost of rebuilding.

http://www.forbes.com/2003/09/11/cx_da_0911silverstein.html

The current situation is $4.6 billion at a maximum, although this may be subject to change (up or down) as a result of court rulings.

And of course this isn't profit for Silverstein. The money is being provided for him to rebuild the WTC complex, and it turns out that's quite expensive ($6.3 billion in April 2006

$4.6 billion in insurance money, $6.3 billion in costs?

Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority continue to be guided by a lease each signed six weeks before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The lease stipulates that should the complex be destroyed, Silverstein must continue to pay the $120 million a year rent in order to maintain the right to rebuild. Mr. Silverstein has tried to persuade the Port Authority that his closely held company is capable of rebuilding while meeting its massive rent payments. The rent is currently being paid from insurance proceeds, draining the amount available for rebuilding.
www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Larry-Silverstein-WTC6dec04.htm

$120 million dollars a year? So in the five years between the attacks and that article being written, Silverstein has paid out over $600 million on rent alone

6.3 billion in costs, 600 million in rent for ground with no building or revenue, almost 7 Billion in cost and 4.6 Billion in a insurance payout, what a moneymaker!



ProffessorJones, The only CT'er who has my full respect!

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By the way, the owner has been quoted as saying, on film, that they "pulled" the building. "Pulled" is another way of saying "demolished".


We decided at the last tin foil beanie convention to stop promoting this particular myth.
Unfortunately, we were constantly laughed at when someone inevitably pointed out that were this true, that not only did silverstein admit it on tv, but also the entire nyc fire department would have to be in on it too.

Then there is the research we hadn't counted on anyone doing:

The following Google searches of the two best known controlled demolition sites in October of 2003 did not return any results indicating that pulling and demolition are synonymous.

* site:controlled-demolition.com pull
* site:implosionworld.com pull

Searching Google with the query demolition pull and filtering out sites referring to the Silverstein pull-it remark returns only one result in about 10 pages of results that uses 'pull' to mean demolish:


So now we have people correctly pointing out that it never was a well known demolition term, and that even if it was, how would silvertein be aware of it, and why would the fire department go along with it, and why would he admit it on tv?

The purpose was for the owner of the buildings to receive the insurance money.



Yeah, we tried using that one too, until it was revealed that he had lost quite a bit of money due to his inadequate insurance decisions.
Not to mention why a billionare in his 70's would go through all of that just to aquire a sum of money that he already had many times over. It would have been like donald trump robbing a 7-11 at gun point.

Thats why we stopped trying to promote those myths, even we weren't stupid enough to buy them anymore.

But we are still actively promoting other misinformation, and I will keep you posted as we test it's falsifability.

Super thermite did it!

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what are you smoking? Presidents aren't elected, they are selected by the people who really run the country.

George W. Bush cheated in both elections, so technically the people never voted him to be president even once. How can you be so naive to believe that whatever someone who counts the votes says is the truth?

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I gotta say man im *beep* glad people are starting to talk about this things.....its about time we all wake the *beep* up.....this is not just going on in america btw, im from guatemala. i can see the influence AMERICA has on other countries............and its *beep* basically they are doing terrorist acts like on 9/11 to keep the population in control, with FEAR....on everywhere in the world, YOUR GOVERMENTS ARE DOING THIS......We as a human race need to START PAYING ATTENTION TO WHATS GOING ON......i bet 80% of the people that actually read this have never heard about the WAR IN ANTARTICA, or the NAZIS BLACK PROJECTS...did any of you know that nazis had UFOS back in the 50's.....they have all this technology, they are not releasing because it would be too hard for them to keep control of everyone.....thats why they keep it simple with cars and *beep* DONT NEED FUEL anymore....we ARE KILING OUR PLANET BY STILL USING GAS...theyre have been thousands of people around the world with FACTS on how to get FREE ENERGY for all you people that dont know what im talking about.....look up on YOUTUBE ufos......look at the speed this machines move.....its called FREE ENERGY google it......the RFID chip is coming soon...without it you wont be able to basically live.........thats the whole point of THE NEW WORLD ORDER in case you guys dont know about that yet......they want A WORLD GOVERMENT, A WORLD RELIGION, A *beep* WORLD ARMY......and if you guys dont know about the BOHEMIAN GROVE than you *beep* need to get on it......OUR POLITICIANS ARE *beep* GAY. THEY TAKE PENIS UP THE ASS, they have all the elite people controlled, they want to make the populations in the world smaller, so its easier to control them....if you dont know this theyre are about 20000 of this *beep* that are trying to mess with our way of freedom, and have been since generations.........ITS *beep* DONT know what you people are planning to do about all this, but me myself, im training my body and im training my way of living.....train with guns and push yourself...if you dont believe in the whole theory about US HUMANS BEING SLAVED BY AN OUTSIDE FORCE OF THIS PLANET then look at your life............if your an adult you go work 8 hours a day, you pay taxes up the ass, THEY DONT EVEN TELL YOU WHAT THEY USE THE TAX MONEY FOR.....its for their black projects btw....as for drugs in america YEA THE OWN GOVERMENT IS MAKING SURE THEY get SHIPPED AND DEALED.....those POLITICANS pisses of *beep* DO NOT AND I MEAN SERIOUSLY DO NOT GIVE A FLYING *beep* ABOUT YOU AT ALL..............its really *beep* sad that THE AMERICAN PEOPLE with all their *beep* and their cockiness cant seem to see outside the box.........WE ARE BEING LIED TO PEOPLE....AND NOT JUST THAT, all the soldiers fighting wars over in the middle EAST are supposed to be PROTECTING THIS COUNTRY not starting *beep* somewhere else like bullies( SAME *beep* HITLER DID.).......if you dont know how your goverment works its basically like this.........THEY CREATE A PROBLEM, a BIG PROBLEM.......THEY LET IT RUN LOOSE FOR A WHILE SO THAT PEOPLE START SEEING THE SERIOUSNESS OF IT ALL, THEN THEY PICK SOMEONE TO FIX THE PROBLEMS THEY ALREDY CREATED, SO THAT NOW PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT THEM LIKE OUR SAVIORS, I WANT YOU TO KNOW SOMETHING IF YOUR READING THIS...YOU SHOULD LOOK AT EVERYONE LIKE YOUR BROTHER AND SISTER, FORGET ALL THAT *beep* JUDGEMENT THAT KEEPS DIVING US. THAT MAKES US FEEL SUPERIOR TO THE OTHER PERSON WHEN IN FACT YOUR JUST LOOKING AT YOUR OWN BLOOD, YOUR OWN HUMAN BLOOD, I THINK ITS TIME WE ALL START THINKING ABOUT EVERYONE AS A RACE...THEYRE ARE ALIENS OUT THERE, THEYRE ARE UFOS, SOME OWNED BY YOUR GOVEMENT ALREDY, as far as i know when YOU HEAR ABOUT CRAZY ABDUCTIONS WHERE THEY DID ALOT OF BAD THINGS TO PEOPLE LIKE KILLING THEM AND BRINING THEM BACK TO LIFE, TAKING THEIR ORGANS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES AND THEN WAKING UP NOT KNOWING WTF JUST HAPPENED...WELL thats what the goverment does with the BLACK TECHONOLOGY they basically are trying to make us fear the actual ALIENS, not all aliens are bad.....they are just like human beings some of them are good some of them are not....BUT DONT WORRY IM JUST ANOTHER CRAZY *beep* but your my brother and sister so DONT EVER SAY NO ONE TOLD YOU ABOUT IT.....

===================================================
ANCIENT FLYING VEHICLES ON WALL CARVINGS:

(proof that we have had technology over thousands of years ago, technology like planes.)

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/AncientFlyingVehicles.jpg

=====================================================

HAUNEBU25b:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/Haunebu25c.jpg

=======================================================

UFO ADVANCED PROPULSION:

(NAZI STEALTH PLANE DESIGNS THE HORTEN...HO 18 US MILITARY MODEL..AMERICANIZED BOMBARDERO)


=============================================

OVNI CRASH ROSSWELL 1947:

FAMOUS CRASH...

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/UFO-AdvancedPropulsion-NaziStealthP.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/UFO-V-Ovni-crash-roswell_jpg.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/Ufo-AdvancedPropulsion-NaziSaucersi.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/Vril25a.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/Vril25g.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/Vril25d.jpg

BY THE WAY IF YOUR ALL INTO THIS STUFF..CHECK THIS OUT:


ttp://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/giants.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/Giant3.jpg

and OF COURSE OUR BIGGEST ENEMY, THE CONTROL FREAKS, THE *beep* REPTILIANS:

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/nsomedia/REPTILIANWEARINGHOODEDGARMENTS.gif





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How much weed did it take you to write that?

rawrrr_guesswho_tiger - It's me Shake!

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:-)

You can't create a post without a Body

but I can give head without a leg

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Yeah, we ELECT them...

That's why Al Gore was president from 2000-2004, right? He got the most votes, right?

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Google Electoral Collage, Such is a Democratic Republic.

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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I'm not sure what the Electoral Collage is, but I know what the Electoral College is. And I believe that it is an outdated and flawed system which should be changed.

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No argument there.

KG & Jack Black For Prime Minister!

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I hope you are being sarcastic. I really do. The people's votes do not mean anything. When you look at how lazy and apathetic the people are, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the people who count the votes aren't even audtied and no one even persues finding out the actual count so how can you logically believe that the votes that are counted really represent who is really elected?

People wake up, this country is not a democracy and if you think it is, I'd love for you to tell me how you figure. When was the last time you were asked to partake in the creation of new laws? How much influence do you and your fellow citizens have in how politics are formed in the public arena? You are not part of it and neither am I. The people that run the world are "elite" and they and their friends and their interests are the ones that are looked after first and foremost. Don't think for a second that it isn't.

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The people's votes do not mean anything.

Tell that to those that come in second. They normally want more of them.

Free The Chasers!

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typical reply from someone who is probably on the payroll for the establisment.

This Mastershake guy does nothing but try to debunk people who have dissenting opinion's that go against the grain of the establisment. It stinks.

Just cause the guy had taken drugs before doesn't mean he isn't capable of critical thought. If you're going to challenge Mr. Sheen, challenge him on what he's talking about and leave the other garbage about his past alone, otherwise all you do is give credence to his arguments.

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This Mastershake guy does nothing but try to debunk people who have dissenting opinion's that go against the grain of the establisment. It stinks.

Care to discredit any of my work with facts?

whitepowerdog-It gets important to NOTE they are jewish, when detecting a conspiracy.

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[deleted]

You must be a Gov't shill with all those links you have so ready to drop 24/7. What? You have a file in your computer with links to refute every question or thought challenging the official report?

That's sad kid.


Yea, Stewie, Knowledge is sad to your ilk I am sure.

El Frank Bomb-cause you're too dum to do it yourself.

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[deleted]

the fact that you constantly cut and paste instead of posting your own opinion is sad for you I am sure

Now Stewie, What is sad is a adult that has dress up tea parties with cats.

I own the David Shayler Board: Bunker does not!

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I don't have to. You are the one that should prove what you're saying. I'm not trying to prove anything.

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I don't have to. You are the one that should prove what you're saying. I'm not trying to prove anything.

Already did, so prove this one..

George W. Bush cheated in both elections, so technically the people never voted him to be president even once. How can you be so naive to believe that whatever someone who counts the votes says is the truth?

El Frank Bomb-cause you're too dum to do it yourself.

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How did you prove it buddy? By citing information you saw on Popular mechanics?! Give me a break! Seriously, you can't afford to be this dumb and get by in life. Anyone could tell you anything I suppose and so long as they appear to have some kind of crediental, you'll believe it right? Why don't you wake up and figure out who really benefits from all this *beep* Do you think that Osama Bin Laden is really benefiting from all this *beep*

Was it Osama's plan to usher in the New World Order? To give the US government freedom to take away the liberties of it's civilians? WHat is the patriot act to you? Do you have any idea that the US government has engaged in "false flag" operations in the past?

It only takes some common sense to figure out that the official story that has been told of 9/11 is not true. The way they get people like you to buy it is that they spin the story and use truth mixed with lies and provide false facts represented by entities that apparently have credit amongst people who will believe anything they hear so long as it comes from a supposedly believable "source".

If you are really a dissenting voice and want to know the truth, why do you believe everything you have read and heard in the popular media is true and even if you don't, why is it you seem to think the information you have is true? What research have you done yourself on all this? You keep acting like you have all the facts when you don't have *beep* you're just a gullible idiot that thinks because you read an article in popular mechanics that you have a leg up on us all but you still haven't told me *beep* that convinces me that the crap you are feeding us is anything more than regurgitated *beep* from sources that are shaky at best in my opinion. If you want to swagger around here with your brillant truths and facts you have about 9/11 you'd better research this *beep* yourself and stop quoting *beep* sources for your material. If you actually believe this government is looking out for our best interests then you are really niave.

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It only takes some common sense to figure out that the official story that has been told of 9/11 is not true.

Four paragraphs of feelings pass as common sense?

Free The Chasers!

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"Four paragraphs of feelings pass as common sense? "


And still you act as if you have presented facts to me that are infallible yet I have not seen one single fact from you. You are only paroting the offical story and if you examine the polls, even though most Americans are half-concious, they still don't buy the offical story.

Plus are you aware that Nick Rockefeller confided in his very good friend at the time, Arron Russo that there would be "an event" and it would be used to go into Afghanastan, Iraq and Iran and that they would be looking for people in caves that they would never find. I mean, put the pieces together and you'll see that 9/11 is the biggest fraud since Perl Harbour, even more so. Perl Harbour was really attacked by the Japanese but only because the US provoked them into it and allowed it to happen as a pretext to enter WWII. 9/11 was more malicious than that, it was totally an inside job. To believe the offical version of 9/11 is absurd. Totally absurd.

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To believe the offical version of 9/11 is absurd. Totally absurd.

So you feel, to bad you have no facts to back that up. Pearl Harbor proves what about 9/11 and "Nick Rockefeller" LOL, He told me just the oppsoite, it must be true, you just read it on the web, Sheeple!

Diablo5150-You said I'm illogical which proves that YOU are and IDIOT!!!

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As far as proving that Bush cheated in the elections, the guy who made the program for elections came out and said that he made a program that would swing the vote to 51-49. He came out and said that he was paid to make this program. You can watch his testimony in Arron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism"

Why don't you do yourself a favour and check this stuff out before acting like you know the whole score.

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You can watch his testimony in Arron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism"

You mean the liar and tax cheat? He lied his butt off in his silly little film!

America: Freedom to Fascism Now Available at Blockbuster Video!


Aaron Russo, the producer of films like “Trading Places” and “The Rose,” promotes his new film, “America: From Freedom to Fascism,” which opened Friday, as having had its international premiere before a packed audience “during the Cannes Film Festival.”

The film was not on the program at Cannes, however, not even for screenings made under the festival’s aegis without being in the awards competition. Mr. Russo, the film’s director, writer and producer, just set up an inflatable screen on a beach. Photographs posted at one of Mr. Russo’s Web sites depict an audience of fewer than 50 people spread out on a platform on the sand.

Hyping films with fanciful claims is nothing new in Hollywood. But examination of the assertions in Mr. Russo’s documentary, which purports to expose “two frauds” perpetrated by the federal government, taxing wages and creating the Federal Reserve to coin money, shows that they too collapse under the weight of fact.

Still, at free showings the film has drawn long lines of people eager to watch a documentary that feeds on the estrangement many Americans feel from their government, especially those who believe they played by the rules and yet see their finances strained or broken. Many of the reviews in major newspapers have accepted as having some factual basis the film’s main contention, that the government illegally extracts income taxes, even though every court that has ever ruled on these issues has upheld the constitutionality of the income tax.
The film’s appeal, Mr. Russo said during a phone interview last week, is not left or right, but concentrated among those who see the United States evolving into a police state ruled by an oligarchy that has tricked Americans into paying taxes.

Not mentioned in the film is that Mr. Russo has more than $2 million of tax liens filed against him by the Internal Revenue Service, California and New York for unpaid federal and state taxes. Mr. Russo declined to discuss the liens, saying they were not relevant to his film.

Early in the film Mr. Russo, the narrator, asserts that every president since Woodrow Wilson and every member of Congress has perpetrated a hoax to tax people’s wages and issue them dubious currency. All of the federal income tax revenue, the film says, goes to these bankers to pay interest on the national debt, even though by the broadest measure the federal government’s interest payments are less than 40 percent of the individual income taxes, according to an examination of every federal budget since 1995.
The film opens by calling the 16th Amendment and its subsequent income tax and the Federal Reserve the product of a “silent coup d’état” in 1913 by “international bankers.” In the style of low-budget television documentaries, photographs appear on screen of J. P. Morgan, Paul Warburg and John D. Rockefeller.

The documentary includes interviews with a host of people who are presented as experts, scholars and whistle-blowers. All deny the legitimacy of the income-tax laws, including Irwin Schiff, now serving his third prison term for tax crimes.
The cornerstone of Mr. Russo’s case is whether any law requires Americans to pay income taxes on wages.

Near the film’s beginning Mr. Russo says, and others appear on screen asserting, that the Internal Revenue Service has refused every request to show any law making Americans liable for an income tax on their wages.

Yet among those thanked in the credits for their help in making the film is Anthony Burke, an I.R.S. spokesman. Mr. Burke said that when Mr. Russo called him asking what law required the payment of income taxes on wages, he sent Mr. Russo a link to documents, including Title 26 of the United States Code, citing the specific sections that require income taxes be paid on wages. Title 26 says on its face that it is law enacted by Congress, but Mr. Russo denied this fact.

“Title 26,” Mr. Russo said in an interview last week, “is not the law, it is I.R.S. regulations and to be a law it has to be passed by Congress.” Mr. Russo added that he had studied the matter closely and was confident that he had the facts.

Arguments made in court that the income tax is invalid are so baseless that Congress has authorized fines of $25,000 for anyone who makes them. But even though the penalty was quintupled, from $5,000, it has not deterred those who assert this and other claims that Congress and the courts deemed “frivolous arguments.”

The film also states repeatedly that people are tricked into paying income taxes because no law makes them liable for taxes. The tax code uses the word impose, whose definition includes the concept of liability, courts have held in published decisions.

The film includes the voice of this reporter, off camera, asking the I.R.S. commissioner, Mark W. Everson, to answer protesters outside the Treasury building who wanted to know what law makes them liable for taxes. Mr. Everson then makes rambling comments without, as the film notes, answering the question.
Mr. Russo also said that “Congress has no authority to tax people’s labor.” Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution begins with the phrase “The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes.”
Only three limitations are placed on that power, none of which bars a tax on wages. One limitation, however, was a requirement that taxes be “apportioned among the several states.”

The 16th Amendment repealed apportionment, but Mr. Russo says in the film that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified and thus a tax on wages is unconstitutional. This claim has been made in various forms by thousands of tax protesters since 1913, and so far their batting average with the courts is .000.
To buttress the claim that the 16th Amendment is invalid, the film displays a quotation from a federal district judge, James C. Fox. But the transcript from which the judge’s words were taken shows that while he spoke those words, they were in the context of laying out issues and that the conclusion he reached was the opposite of the words quoted.

Judge Fox, the transcript shows, concluded that no court would accept any argument that the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified and therefore invalid.

The film includes a brief interview with Sheldon Cohen, who was I.R.S. commissioner in the Johnson administration. Mr. Cohen said Mr. Russo used editing that “twists my views” to create a false impression. Mr. Russo said he considered the assertion laughable.

Mr. Russo was Bette Midler’s manager for seven years early in his career and has produced music as well as films. He also sought the Libertarian Party nomination for president in 2004 but dropped out because of ill health.
Despite hundreds and perhaps thousands of tax protesters going to prison, and many more losing their homes and life savings, the movement appears today to be more widespread than ever.

“The tax protest movement is like a cult,” said J J MacNab, a Maryland insurance analyst who is writing a book about protesters and who has sat through six trials of people prosecuted for refusing to pay taxes under the theories espoused by Mr. Russo’s film.

One tax protester featured in the film, Irwin Schiff of Las Vegas, is now serving his third prison sentence after being convicted of tax evasion crimes. Mr. Schiff introduced into his criminal case the notes of his psychiatrist, who wrote that Mr. Schiff was a successful tax shelter salesman until a con artist ripped him and his clients off. The psychiatrist concluded that Mr. Schiff became delusional, believing he alone could properly interpret the tax code, as a way to avoid acknowledging reality.

Later, one of Mr. Schiff’s confederates, who was also later convicted and sent to prison, sent e-mail messages to supporters saying that the psychiatrist’s notes were introduced as part of a ruse to help Mr. Schiff escape prosecution.

Ms. MacNab, who has testified before Congress, said that at each of the trials prosecutors showed how the accused took out of context sections of the law and court decisions while ignoring other sections, including those shown to them by I.R.S. agents.

“People who are drawn into this movement just refuse to acknowledge facts that show their beliefs have no basis in fact,” she said. “Most of them have failed, their business has failed, their marriage has failed, and instead of taking responsibility for it they want to blame the government.”

Free The Chasers!

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You speak to me of tax evasions?!

Are you aware that the IRS is a fraudulent organization? Are you aware that the 16th amendment did NOT give the government any new power of taxation! This stuff is FACT, it's not hidden, it's not a conspiracy theory as many in denial like to say.

The IRS is a criminal organization so for you to tell me that someone is a tax evader just makes me laugh. If anything the IRS should be destroyed and all the money they have robbed from Americans returned with interest and government officials that support this criminal organization should be brought before judge in trial and be sentanced to life in jail for their cruel and disgusting treatment of the people who they obviously feel no sympathy for and are only using us.

People wake up and realize that WE ARE SLAVES! What we call money is not even money at all, it is just PAPER! It is created by the Federal Reserve, which if you do the research is a private corporation made up by all the major banks in America and bribed senators and funded Woodrow Wilsons campaign to become president on the promise that Wilson would sign the Federal Reserve act. Even Woodrow himself said in regret that he "ruined his country" when he signed this act. The IRS and the Income Tax is another fraud and still Americans pay income tax thinking it goes towards the infastructure when it just pays the interest on the debt to the Fed for the dollars they "loan" to the government on interest. WAKE UP PEOPLE, DO THE RESEARCH, SOON IT WILL BE TOO LATE AND WE WILL ALL BE SLAVES!. Wanna think I'm crazy? Go ahead, but the truth will be self-evident eventually.

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WAKE UP PEOPLE, DO THE RESEARCH, SOON IT WILL BE TOO LATE AND WE WILL ALL BE SLAVES!. Wanna think I'm crazy? Go ahead, but the truth will be self-evident eventually.

You are crazy and so was Russo. Pay your freekin taxes.

------------------------


America: Freedom to Fascism Now Available at Blockbuster Video!

Aaron Russo, the producer of films like “Trading Places” and “The Rose,” promotes his new film, “America: From Freedom to Fascism,” which opened Friday, as having had its international premiere before a packed audience “during the Cannes Film Festival.”

The film was not on the program at Cannes, however, not even for screenings made under the festival’s aegis without being in the awards competition. Mr. Russo, the film’s director, writer and producer, just set up an inflatable screen on a beach. Photographs posted at one of Mr. Russo’s Web sites depict an audience of fewer than 50 people spread out on a platform on the sand.

Hyping films with fanciful claims is nothing new in Hollywood. But examination of the assertions in Mr. Russo’s documentary, which purports to expose “two frauds” perpetrated by the federal government, taxing wages and creating the Federal Reserve to coin money, shows that they too collapse under the weight of fact.

Still, at free showings the film has drawn long lines of people eager to watch a documentary that feeds on the estrangement many Americans feel from their government, especially those who believe they played by the rules and yet see their finances strained or broken. Many of the reviews in major newspapers have accepted as having some factual basis the film’s main contention, that the government illegally extracts income taxes, even though every court that has ever ruled on these issues has upheld the constitutionality of the income tax.
The film’s appeal, Mr. Russo said during a phone interview last week, is not left or right, but concentrated among those who see the United States evolving into a police state ruled by an oligarchy that has tricked Americans into paying taxes.

Not mentioned in the film is that Mr. Russo has more than $2 million of tax liens filed against him by the Internal Revenue Service, California and New York for unpaid federal and state taxes. Mr. Russo declined to discuss the liens, saying they were not relevant to his film.

Early in the film Mr. Russo, the narrator, asserts that every president since Woodrow Wilson and every member of Congress has perpetrated a hoax to tax people’s wages and issue them dubious currency. All of the federal income tax revenue, the film says, goes to these bankers to pay interest on the national debt, even though by the broadest measure the federal government’s interest payments are less than 40 percent of the individual income taxes, according to an examination of every federal budget since 1995.
The film opens by calling the 16th Amendment and its subsequent income tax and the Federal Reserve the product of a “silent coup d’état” in 1913 by “international bankers.” In the style of low-budget television documentaries, photographs appear on screen of J. P. Morgan, Paul Warburg and John D. Rockefeller.

The documentary includes interviews with a host of people who are presented as experts, scholars and whistle-blowers. All deny the legitimacy of the income-tax laws, including Irwin Schiff, now serving his third prison term for tax crimes.
The cornerstone of Mr. Russo’s case is whether any law requires Americans to pay income taxes on wages.

Near the film’s beginning Mr. Russo says, and others appear on screen asserting, that the Internal Revenue Service has refused every request to show any law making Americans liable for an income tax on their wages.

Yet among those thanked in the credits for their help in making the film is Anthony Burke, an I.R.S. spokesman. Mr. Burke said that when Mr. Russo called him asking what law required the payment of income taxes on wages, he sent Mr. Russo a link to documents, including Title 26 of the United States Code, citing the specific sections that require income taxes be paid on wages. Title 26 says on its face that it is law enacted by Congress, but Mr. Russo denied this fact.

“Title 26,” Mr. Russo said in an interview last week, “is not the law, it is I.R.S. regulations and to be a law it has to be passed by Congress.” Mr. Russo added that he had studied the matter closely and was confident that he had the facts.

Arguments made in court that the income tax is invalid are so baseless that Congress has authorized fines of $25,000 for anyone who makes them. But even though the penalty was quintupled, from $5,000, it has not deterred those who assert this and other claims that Congress and the courts deemed “frivolous arguments.”

The film also states repeatedly that people are tricked into paying income taxes because no law makes them liable for taxes. The tax code uses the word impose, whose definition includes the concept of liability, courts have held in published decisions.

The film includes the voice of this reporter, off camera, asking the I.R.S. commissioner, Mark W. Everson, to answer protesters outside the Treasury building who wanted to know what law makes them liable for taxes. Mr. Everson then makes rambling comments without, as the film notes, answering the question.
Mr. Russo also said that “Congress has no authority to tax people’s labor.” Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution begins with the phrase “The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes.”
Only three limitations are placed on that power, none of which bars a tax on wages. One limitation, however, was a requirement that taxes be “apportioned among the several states.”

The 16th Amendment repealed apportionment, but Mr. Russo says in the film that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified and thus a tax on wages is unconstitutional. This claim has been made in various forms by thousands of tax protesters since 1913, and so far their batting average with the courts is .000.
To buttress the claim that the 16th Amendment is invalid, the film displays a quotation from a federal district judge, James C. Fox. But the transcript from which the judge’s words were taken shows that while he spoke those words, they were in the context of laying out issues and that the conclusion he reached was the opposite of the words quoted.

Judge Fox, the transcript shows, concluded that no court would accept any argument that the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified and therefore invalid.

The film includes a brief interview with Sheldon Cohen, who was I.R.S. commissioner in the Johnson administration. Mr. Cohen said Mr. Russo used editing that “twists my views” to create a false impression. Mr. Russo said he considered the assertion laughable.

Mr. Russo was Bette Midler’s manager for seven years early in his career and has produced music as well as films. He also sought the Libertarian Party nomination for president in 2004 but dropped out because of ill health.
Despite hundreds and perhaps thousands of tax protesters going to prison, and many more losing their homes and life savings, the movement appears today to be more widespread than ever.

“The tax protest movement is like a cult,” said J J MacNab, a Maryland insurance analyst who is writing a book about protesters and who has sat through six trials of people prosecuted for refusing to pay taxes under the theories espoused by Mr. Russo’s film.

One tax protester featured in the film, Irwin Schiff of Las Vegas, is now serving his third prison sentence after being convicted of tax evasion crimes. Mr. Schiff introduced into his criminal case the notes of his psychiatrist, who wrote that Mr. Schiff was a successful tax shelter salesman until a con artist ripped him and his clients off. The psychiatrist concluded that Mr. Schiff became delusional, believing he alone could properly interpret the tax code, as a way to avoid acknowledging reality.

Later, one of Mr. Schiff’s confederates, who was also later convicted and sent to prison, sent e-mail messages to supporters saying that the psychiatrist’s notes were introduced as part of a ruse to help Mr. Schiff escape prosecution.

Ms. MacNab, who has testified before Congress, said that at each of the trials prosecutors showed how the accused took out of context sections of the law and court decisions while ignoring other sections, including those shown to them by I.R.S. agents.

“People who are drawn into this movement just refuse to acknowledge facts that show their beliefs have no basis in fact,” she said. “Most of them have failed, their business has failed, their marriage has failed, and instead of taking responsibility for it they want to blame the government.”
http://www.democracyisnotfreedom.com/facts_refute_russo.asp


Diablo5150-You said I'm illogical which proves that YOU are and IDIOT!!!

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Pay my taxes?

Show the law buddy. See this is how I know you're a plant. If you did any research you'd see that there is no law to pay income tax in america. The 16th amendment was never ratified in enough states. You wanna sit there and say Russo had tax leins, how can you owe taxes when it isn't even law. Read the IRS code itself. It says the tax is voluntary, not law.

Even Ron Paul who is running for president knows this that income tax is wrong and illegal and if he were to somehow make it in as president he has already said he will abolish income tax and stop the federal reserve from making money out of thin air. You call me dumb but you just argue points with nothing but slander of people's character, you don't challenge me at all on the important points. Like how the Fedreal reserve came about really and where is the law that states americans have to pay income tax. And while you are at it, define income to me because not even the IRS code defines it. SO what is income really?

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Pay my taxes?

Show the law buddy.


Right here, you are out of your league, pay your taxes.

Certainly that has been the uniform holding of the courts in cases in which this argument has been raised. For some representative cases, see United States v. Benson, 941 F.2d 598 (7th Cir. 1991) (rejecting these arguments in a criminal case brought against the author of the "Law that Never Was" book); United States v. Foster, 789 F.2d 457 (7th Cir. 1986); Cook v. Spillman, 806 F.2d 948 (9th Cir. 1986) (calling the argument that the Sixteenth Amendment was never ratified "frivolous" and imposing sanctions of $1,500 on the party making it); United States v. House, 617 F.Supp. 237, 238-39 (W.D. Mich.1985).

And while you are at it, define income to me because not even the IRS code defines it.

LOL, Read a book for once in your life.

IRC 61, 26 U.S.C. § 61) defines gross income... including "Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items"; "Gross income derived from business"; and "Gains derived from dealings in property". Other examples of income listed in section 61 include interest and dividends, rent, royalty payments, alimony payments; life insurance, pensions, and inheritances.

HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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When you speak of the law for taxes all you do is talk of a court case that doesn't exactly prove there is an outright law that people should pay income tax. If there is an outright law, why won't people who suppor this so-called law just state it in clear english. You just point to a case and the way the courts run now, most judges don't even consider the rulings of the supreme court that said income is "gain from corporate activity".

Also, go ahead and continue slandering me and others that disagree with you as all you do is show your ignorance. This code you're listing here, this is lifted straight from title 26 I presume? Even then all the things you list I still don't see wages listed there. You yourself are contradicting yourself and then just using insults and not logic to back up your argument. Classic argument from those who know there is no law and cannot argue the points with facts.

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When you speak of the law for taxes all you do is talk of a court case that doesn't exactly prove there is an outright law that people should pay income tax. If there is an outright law, why won't people who suppor this so-called law just state it in clear english. You just point to a case and the way the courts run now, most judges don't even consider the rulings of the supreme court that said income is "gain from corporate activity".

You are so lost, please explain how case law sets precedent and makes law.

most judges don't even consider the rulings of the supreme court that said income is "gain from corporate activity"

LOL, Please explain when Supreme Court Decisions stopped becoming the supreme law of the land binding on all lower courts. You have no idea what you are talking about. Pay your taxes!

Even then all the things you list I still don't see wages listed there.

Learn to read. IRC 61, 26 U.S.C. § 61) defines gross income... including "Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items";



HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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Man talking to you is just unreal. You say I'm lost? When did I say that case law sets precedent? In other words when I asked you to show me the law that states people should pay an income tax you are the one that quoted a court case, not me, so you are the one trying to say that case law set a precedent and if you wanna do some reading yourself, why not look up the supreme court rulings on what "income" is and the results of those cases between 1913-1919.

Plus I didn't say it was right that most judges don't consider the supreme court rulings because it's obvious that they aren't or people wouldn't be getting sent to jail for failure to pay. The supreme court ruled that the 16th amendment did not change the taxing laws so if you weren't taxable before the 16th amendment, you weren't after. It's a scam. Income tax is illegal because it is not an apportioned tax which is what the constitution says that any direct tax should be.

Is that just a code from the IRS that you keep quoting because if it is, remember that it has to be in compliance with the supreme court and the constitution and I think this is where most people get confused.

Keep being childish and trying to insult me but you still haven't shown me the bottom line. Where is the law, not the *beep* written in the IRS code because it's fraudulent anyway.

You are probably one of those who also believes the official story behind 9/11 too.

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In other words when I asked you to show me the law that states people should pay an income tax you are the one that quoted a court case, not me, so you are the one trying to say that case law set a precedent and if you wanna do some reading yourself, why not look up the supreme court rulings on what "income" is and the results of those cases between 1913-1919.

LOL, Case law does set president at the appeals level. I studied those cases in school.

The supreme court ruled that the 16th amendment did not change the taxing laws so if you weren't taxable before the 16th amendment, you weren't after.

Wrong.

The Supreme Court in Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad, 240 U.S. 1 (1916), indicated that the amendment did not expand the federal government's existing power to tax income (meaning profit or gain from any source) but rather removed the possibility of classifying an income tax as a direct tax on the basis of the source of the income. The Amendment removed the need for the income tax to be apportioned among the states on the basis of population. Income taxes are required, however, to abide by the law of geographical uniformity

(Please comment on that as I am sure you will misread it's conclusion. It's a very famous case.)

Where is the law, not the *beep* written in the IRS code because it's fraudulent anyway.

Oh god, The code is the law. Man you know nothing about the law or taxes, hint, pay yours.

HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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Master through that whole thing you didn't get what I was saying. The 16th amendment firstly was never ratified by all states so regardless of what you think it says, it doesn't matter. Secondly all you said was that the amendment changed it to be an unapportioned tax, but there is still no law that the average american making a wage in private business should have to pay an income tax, the law just does not exist. Any law stated otherwise would have to be in compliance with the Constitution and The Supreme court rulings and the ruling you quoted just said the tax didn't have to be apportioned, you speak nothing of any new tax laws that force americans to pay the interst on the national debt to international bankers.

Another thing, if you know so much about taxes, why haven't you yet listed an actual statute that says americans are responsible to pay an income tax on the labour and wages.

Also when you think about it, income tax makes no sense. If I choose to work and earn an income, then I'm providing tax dollars to the country when I choose to spend my dollars as you obviously know that almost everything is taxed in these countries, Canada and US. Also just for your information I'm not american so frankly I'm not as up to date on your history but I know enough to know that income tax is a fraud and if you believe it isn't then you have obviously been manipulated to believe so, whether its' greed, or just the personal choice to be willfully ignorant to things like this and 9/11 probably and other government lies. Either way is not good. Mostly you choose to attack other's character rather than argue the points. I have asked you repeatedly to show me an actual law that states americans should pay income tax but I have not seen an actual statute that claims americans are liable to pay an unapportioned tax on the labour in exchange for money.

And also, I do pay my taxes, or rather they are stolen from me each week.

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Another thing, if you know so much about taxes, why haven't you yet listed an actual statute that says americans are responsible to pay an income tax on the labour and wages.

Since when is the IRC code not law, LOL. It is, right here.

Learn to read. IRC 61, 26 U.S.C. § 61) defines gross income... including "Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items";

I have asked you repeatedly to show me an actual law that states americans should pay income tax but I have not seen an actual statute that claims americans are liable to pay an unapportioned tax on the labour in exchange for money.

See above. You have no idea what you are talking about.

but there is still no law that the average american making a wage in private business should have to pay an income tax, the law just does not exist.

See above. You clearly know nothing about American Jurisprudence.

Any law stated otherwise would have to be in compliance with the Constitution and The Supreme court rulings and the ruling you quoted just said the tax didn't have to be apportioned, you speak nothing of any new tax laws that force americans to pay the interst on the national debt to international bankers.

Yes and the Supreme Court interprets the constitution and has final say.

The 16th amendment firstly was never ratified by all states so regardless of what you think it says, it doesn't matter.

God you are dense, it did not take all states to ratify the amendment, it required 3/4's of the states at the time or 75%, it was ratified by about 88%.

The following states ratified the amendment

1. Alabama (August 10, 1909)
2. Kentucky (February 8, 1910)
3. South Carolina (February 19, 1910)
4. Illinois (March 1, 1910)
5. Mississippi (March 7, 1910)
6. Oklahoma (March 10, 1910)
7. Maryland (April 8, 1910)
8. Georgia (August 3, 1910)
9. Texas (August 16, 1910)
10. Ohio (January 19, 1911)
11. Idaho (January 20, 1911)
12. Oregon (January 23, 1911)
13. Washington (January 26, 1911)
14. Montana (January 27, 1911)
15. Indiana (January 30, 1911)
16. California (January 31, 1911)
17. Nevada (January 31, 1911)
18. South Dakota (February 1, 1911)
19. Nebraska (February 9, 1911)
20. North Carolina (February 11, 1911)
21. Colorado (February 15, 1911)
22. North Dakota (February 17, 1911)
23. Michigan (February 23, 1911)
24. Iowa (February 24, 1911)
25. Kansas (March 2, 1911)
26. Missouri (March 16, 1911)
27. Maine (March 31, 1911)
28. Tennessee (April 7, 1911)
29. Arkansas (April 22, 1911, after having previously rejected the amendment)
30. Wisconsin (May 16, 1911)
31. New York (July 12, 1911)
32. Arizona (April 3, 1912)
33. Minnesota (June 11, 1912)
34. Louisiana (June 28, 1912)
35. West Virginia (January 31, 1913)
36. New Mexico (February 3, 1913)

Ratification (by the requisite thirty-six states) was completed on February 3, 1913 with the ratification by New Mexico (but see Delaware and Wyoming below). The amendment was subsequently ratified by the following states, bringing the total number of ratifying states to forty-two:

37. Delaware (February 3, 1913)
38. Wyoming (February 3, 1913)
39. New Jersey (February 4, 1913)
40. Vermont (February 19, 1913)
41. Massachusetts (March 4, 1913)
42. New Hampshire (March 7, 1913, after rejecting the amendment on March 2, 1911)

The following states rejected the amendment without ever subsequently ratifying it:

1. Connecticut
2. Florida, which rejected the amendment after it had already been ratified by three-fourths of the states
3. Rhode Island
4. Utah

The following states never took up the proposed amendment:

1. Pennsylvania
2. Virginia


PAY YOUR TAXES!




HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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Man you're so full of *beep* buddy. You still did not state a law that requires americans to pay taxes, the thing you listed is just saying what income is. It doesn't say income tax is mandatory.

And I know it doesn't take every state to ratify an amendment you goof. If you wanna be an immature person about this continue to do so but you still have not shown a law, what you have shown does not say income tax is mandatory, it just describes income.

I told you, you dense mf, I pay my taxes. And stop telling me what to do firstly, who are you anyway?

Continue believing everything the criminal government tells you cause when you're a servant to these people that couldn't care less about you, it'll be obvious just how ignorant you and many other americans are and have been and then it'll be too late.

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And I know it doesn't take every state to ratify an amendment you goof. If you wanna be an immature person about this continue to do so but you still have not shown a law, what you have shown does not say income tax is mandatory, it just describes income.

Right here, Administrative law Genius, It describes what is taxable, then deductions * exemptions start. Would you like to get into Slip Opinions?

IRC 61, 26 U.S.C. § 61) defines gross income... including "Compensation for services, including fees, commissions, fringe benefits, and similar items";

So pay your freeking taxes.

HUMPTY DUMPTY WAS PUSHED...www.PressForDumptyTruth.org

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Just cause the guy had taken drugs before doesn't mean he isn't capable of critical thought.

The Guinea Pig films (from the Japanese "giniipiggu") are a series of 1980s Japanese horror films with extremely detailed special effects. According to Snopes, the films became infamous when Charlie Sheen mistook one for a snuff film and contacted the FBI to report it.

They have since been reissued on DVD in the United States and in the Netherlands.

El Frank Bomb-cause you're too dum to do it yourself.

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"when mainstream media tried to discredit charlie sheen they just should have mentioned that this is a guy who once seriously believed that a japanese horror movie called "flowers of flesh and blood" was a genuine snuff film, he even called the fbi and pressed them for an investigation. it's amazing what smoking pot can do to the human mind."

Actually, that was Martin Sheen. Not that it makes a difference, your goal is clear: discredit Sheen on the basis of personal observations rather than tackling the points he has raised - points that he has merely articulated. He left the brain work to the physicists, structural engineers, and other experts, who's work can be found at:

http://physics911.net/
http://www.st911.org/
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.wtc7.net/

If Sheen had shot cocaine up his arse with a rocket launcher, it wouldn't change the fact that the points he has raised were formulated by experts in their respective fields.

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"when mainstream media tried to discredit charlie sheen they just should have mentioned that this is a guy who once seriously believed that a japanese horror movie called "flowers of flesh and blood" was a genuine snuff film, he even called the fbi and pressed them for an investigation. it's amazing what smoking pot can do to the human mind."

Actually, that was Martin Sheen.


Wrong, It was Hookers and Blow Charlie but you tin foil hat bunch don't really like facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_Pig_(film_series)

Good judge of reality that boy. There very few experts in your links.

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996


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[deleted]

Loved the Guy in Wall Street, Liked him in Platoon, I think Robert Downey JR. is a great actor, I just would not look for advice from either when it came to logic and reason in decision making.

Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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[deleted]

if the government really wanted to discredit Charlie Sheen, then they would have discredited him with murder or similar things.

What Charlie Sheen has gone through lately.... is not a big deal if you look at other people in Hollywood. And secondly: it is his wife, Denise Richards, who have said most things that discredited Charlie Sheen.... i dont think she is a government agent, as some conspiracy theorists may think - i dont think Charlie Sheen is that stupid.

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"There very few experts in your links."

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhoAreWe.html#FullMembers

WTC7 collapsed at freefall speed (the Towers took slightly longer; according to FEMA, NIST and the 9/11 Commission Report, 10 - 12 seconds each):

http://worldtradecentertruth.com/volume/200611/911-Acceleration-Close-to-Free-Fall.pdf

This is ONLY possible through controlled demolition. If you can think of any other reason for this phenomenon (that material falling through steel and concrete falls at a similar speed to material falling through the air) please share. Keep in mind that even NIST are now examining the possibility of "blast events" having played a part in the collapse:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

The last paragraph reads -

NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.

Sulphidation was found on some of the steel from the Twin Towers. Sulphur points to thermate or some derivative thereof. If you can think of any other reason for the presence of sulphur on the steel, that'd be a great help to our research :)

All of the anomalies of the collapses (virtually freefall speed, the symmetry, the horizontal ejections, the molten steel in the basements, the sulphidation, the eyewitness reports of explosions and flashes, the reports of explosions in the basements before the planes even hit, etc etc etc) can ALL be explained with one hypothesis - controlled demolition. It is the only hypothesis that explains everything in one fell swoop. No aspect of the collapses are left lingering, as is the case with the official explanation. For instance, had pancaking occurred, why did the core completely disappear too? And where was the "stack of pancakes" at the end which is what has happened with every pancake collapse in the past? We're instead left with concrete pulverised into talcum powder. And why did the 9/11 Commission Report deny the existence of the 47 massive steel core columns? And how can fire travel down the elevator shafts to the ground floor when the elevators only go 1/3 of the way up/down (i.e. there is no elevator that travels the full length of the tower). Etc.

Controlled demolition explains everything. Occam's Razor favours this hypothesis, as it is the simplest explanation that accommodates all of the data.

Worth watching:

9/11 Mysteries - Volume 1: Demolitions
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=9%2F11+mysteries

William Rodriguez Recounts His Experiences on 9/11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294&q=william+rodriguez

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And what does the company that holds the world record of most buildings, tallest building and largest building imploded think. Lets look at the worlds leading company in Control Demolitions think. (Hint: Not a chance it was Controlled Demolition)

http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%20STUDY%208-06%20w%20clarif%20as%20of%209-8-06%20.pdf

PS: I see no expert names in your post, just the same old, same old, go dig up the Finish guy and we can go there next.

SULFUR=Drywall

George Vander Voort, who has worked on analysing the steel samples, asks the following questions at the end of a presentation on the topic:
Could the source of the sulfur be as simple as - -“acid rain”

Did the ingredients come from building contents, high sulfur fuel oils etc?

Could nearby ocean salts such as sodium sulfate play a role?
http://www.abmbrasil.com.br/cim/download/Vander_Voort.pps
And a National Science Foundation study suggests gypsum may be an adequate explanation for high levels of sulfur and other chemicals they found in New York harbour sediment:

The high levels of calcium, strontium, and sulfur concentrations found in the near-surface sediments of the cores, are consistent with presence of gypsum as a parent material. Gypsum is extensively used as drywall in building construction.


http://www.nsf.gov/od/lpa/news/03/pr0309.htm

We have FEMA metal samples that have seen temperatures within the possible range of a fire, then, and traces of sulfur that could have come from a wide variety of sources. What we don’t have is any explanation of why thermate is a more likely source than anything else, and until that arrives the sulfur does not appear to be a significant indicator of anything at all.



Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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WTC7 collapsed at freefall speed (the Towers took slightly longer; according to FEMA, NIST and the 9/11 Commission Report, 10 - 12 seconds each):

Not true, No where near freefall. 18 Seconds.

"But the building doesn't look like it fell over, it fell "In it's own foot print" you might ask. That's because it is impossible for a 47 story steel building to fall over like that. It's not a small steel reinforced concrete building like the ones shown as *Examples* of buildings which fell over. Building 7 is more like the towers, made up of many pieces put together. It's not so much as a solid block as those steel reinforced concrete buildings.
This evidence supports the NIST contention that the building collapse progressed from the penthouse out as columns weakened by the fires. The slow sinking of the penthouses, indicating the internal collapse of the building behind the visible north wall, took 8.2 seconds according to a NIST preliminary report. Seismograph trace of the collapse of WTC 7 indicates that parts of the building were hitting the ground for 18 seconds. This means the collapse took at least 18 seconds, of which only the last approximately 15 seconds are visible in videos: 8 seconds for the penthouses and 7 seconds for the north wall to come down.


WTC7 came down with a 20 story hole in it, a three story visible bulge and totally on fire and corner damage running up to the 18th floor but lets explore shall we?

Lets look at this 10 second video of WTC 7 first.

http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Smoke.avi

Stills of the whole building.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_1.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_2.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_3.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_4.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_smoke_5.html

Corner damage.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/av.caesar/wtc/wtc7_2.jpg

The 20 Story Hole
http://www.debunking911.com/7wtc.jpg

Illustrated 42 page PowerPoint style detailed report (easy read) on the damage. A must see.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%20IIC%20-%20WTC%207%20Collapse%20Final.pdf

Here is your fire from the firemen on scene.

Battalion Chief John Norman
Special Operations Command - 22 years

From there, we looked out at 7 World Trade Center again. You could see smoke, but no visible fire, and some damage to the south face. You couldn’t really see from where we were on the west face of the building, but at the edge of the south face you could see that it was very heavily damaged.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/norman.html
Chris Boyle expands on what he saw when he viewed the south side, not just the corner.
Captain Chris Boyle
Engine 94 - 18 years

Boyle: ...on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html

Another report talks of damage that suggested collapse was a real possibility:
...Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110462.PDF

Fire chief Daniel Nigro says further assessment of the damage indicated that it was severe:

The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged [WTC Building 7]. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-634

Another fireman reported damage that progressed as the day wore on.
Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
Division 1 - 33 years

...also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html


And a lot of Fuel

Fuel Tanks for generators in WTC7
275-gallon tank on 7th floor;
one 6,000-gallon tank located between low-rise elevators in east elevator shaft between 2nd and 3rd floors
Two 6,000-gallon tanks under loading dock on ground level
Two 12,000-gallon tanks under loading dock on ground level
275-gallon tank on 5th floor
Approximately 50- to 100-gallon tank under generator on 9th floor
275-gallon tank on 8th floor on west side next to exterior wall

AND HERE ARE TWO QUESTIONS

1. If this was done as a False Flag Operation, what is the significance of the relatively small in the (grand scheme of things) WTC7, If you drop the Huge WTC1 & 2 (think back to those images on TV the first time you saw them) did Bush have some mathematical formula that said the US population would not support a war in Iraq unless WTC7 was dropped also?

2. Why drop the penthouse through WTC7’s roof 5 seconds before you drop WTC7. If you are going to bring the whole thing down in five seconds why do all the work to drop the penthouse through the roof a mere five seconds earlier?



Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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mastershake:

WTC7 collapsed at freefall speed (the Towers took slightly longer; according to FEMA, NIST and the 9/11 Commission Report, 10 - 12 seconds each):

Not true, No where near freefall. 18 Seconds.


W: That's a lie. In the film "Loose Change Final Cut" they showed with a timer that the WTC fell at 9 seconds. It's crystal clear beyond a doubt. Why do you lie?

Go to youtube or google video and watch Loose Change Final Cut by searching it.


http://www.happierabroad.com - Your guide to love and happiness beyond America

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W: That's a lie. In the film "Loose Change Final Cut" they showed with a timer that the WTC fell at 9 seconds. It's crystal clear beyond a doubt. Why do you lie?

BS: Try again! Those tards don't count the whole collapse.

The evidence supports the NIST contention that the building collapse progressed from the penthouse out as columns weakened by the fires. The slow sinking of the penthouses, indicating the internal collapse of the building behind the visible north wall, took 8.2 seconds according to a NIST preliminary report. Seismograph trace of the collapse of WTC 7 indicates that parts of the building were hitting the ground for 18 seconds. This means the collapse took at least 18 seconds, of which only the last approximately 15 seconds are visible in videos: 8 seconds for the penthouses and 7 seconds for the north wall to come down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G86yuunRBIw


Jeromes Favorite Dream -

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For instance, had pancaking occurred, why did the core completely disappear too?

Because the core and the outer trusses needed each other to support the load, without one, the other comes down.

And where was the "stack of pancakes" at the end which is what has happened with every pancake collapse in the past?

You expect 110 slabs of intact concrete?

And why did the 9/11 Commission Report deny the existence of the 47 massive steel core columns?

They did not.

And how can fire travel down the elevator shafts to the ground floor when the elevators only go 1/3 of the way up/down (i.e. there is no elevator that travels the full length of the tower). Etc.

Fuel is a liquid the elevator exchanges were close to each other, the path of least resistance is down, the liquid pools up, runs down the next shaft.


Alex Jones, 100% reliable birth control by keeping believers date free since 1996

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Note that the media deliberately ignored 9/11 Commession members (who resigned), George Bush's former high-ranking advisers, former ministers of Germany, Britain, Canada and 100 luminaries who signed the "9/11 Truth Statement, and granted coverage to the comments of actor Charlie Sheen.

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Here is the site of the "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth" group. They have a very scientific video presentation too. Watch it. These guys are professionals, not nutcases.

http://www.ae911truth.org/


http://www.happierabroad.com - Your guide to love and happiness beyond America

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They have a very scientific video presentation too. Watch it. These guys are professionals, not nutcases.

Actually at least three are fake and none have the same theory it seems.

By the way, what the hell does a architects know about structural engineering.

Jeromes Favorite Dream -

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Civil war soon, country divided, next terror immminent, flee, get guns, prepare, KKK, Neo-Nazism, Triumph of the Will=ScrewLooseChange, Monkeys, sheeple, Evoversuscreo, dirtybombinpantspocket,fightsongbymarilynmanson,columbinewasthefaultofcliquesystem,studentanallyraped.

"Sadness is for Poor People"-Err the Mooninite

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"Loved the Guy in Wall Street, Liked him in Platoon, I think Robert Downey JR. is a great actor, I just would not look for advice from either when it came to logic and reason in decision making. "

YEAH, i'd much rather get my facts from violent, angry folks like Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and Michael Savage.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. "
-George Orwell

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Oh please! Charlie Sheen is an actor and not a demigod. He is simply an American citizen who has inquired about some questionable evidence that the events of September 11 were not exactly as the mainstream media would have us believe. Charlie Sheen said repeatedly, to do your own research. I think that is fair enough!










Live Long and Prosper!

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He is simply an American citizen who has inquired about some questionable evidence

What questionable evidence?

Jeromes Favorite Dream -

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Among many, how about a fully intact passport of an alleged terrorist?






Live Long and Prosper!

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Among many, how about a fully intact passport of an alleged terrorist?

Not that odd, paper rides on a thermal wave because it is light, ever try to throw a sheet of paper in a fire just to have it keep floating up and away unburned?

Also parts of the plane went completing through the building, you can see paper products float down as the plane parts exits the 81st floor.

Were these inside jobs also?

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ONE


Nothing was expected to survive the breakup of the space shuttle Columbia over the Southwest three months ago. Imagine NASA's surprise upon opening five canisters that had been found in the debris field - some of the 78,000 pieces of wreckage recovered - and in each, discovering a thriving colony of experimental worms.

The tiny creatures, no larger than a speck of fuzz on a sweater, were part of a study put together by NASA Ames Research Center and Stanford University Medical Center researcher Stuart Kim, PhD, associate professor of developmental biology and of genetics, to see how the worms fared in space.

Tiny C. elegans worms like this one play a critical role in science. Canisters full of the worms, part of a Stanford research project, managed to survive the Columbia shuttle disaster three months ago. Photo: Courtesy of Stuart Kim
"I was very surprised they survived," said Kim of the worms he sent into space. "I just thought that the explosion would melt them and then they would either freeze or burn to death on the way down from the upper atmosphere. Then the impact to the Earth didn't shatter the canister and spill them all out. That's just remarkable."

The worms hit the ground with an impact 2,295 times the force of Earth's gravity,
according to a research paper in December's issue of the journal
The extraordinary worms are called C. elegans, and are one of the cornerstones upon which animal studies are based (the others being mice, fruit flies and yeast).

http://news.com.com/2061-11204_3-6016657.html

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2003/may7/worm.html

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TWO

HOUSTON, Texas (CNN) -- Human remains found in a field in Texas late Saturday are believed to be those of at least one of the seven astronauts who perished aboard space shuttle Columbia when it disintegrated nearly 40 miles above the Earth.

Along with the remains, a charred NASA patch and a flight helmet were found on a rural road in Hemphill, east of Nacogdoches, Texas, according to The Associated Press. (Full story)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/02/01/shuttle.columbia/

The patch... Not really burned is it?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2003-02/6472139.jpg

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THREE

Rescuers who reached the wreckage of an airliner that crashed into a glacier-capped Colombian volcano found shards of metal, tattered clothing, photographs and burned money, but no sign of survivors.

"It looked like the airplane exploded," said Marcillo, holding a chunk of the plane in his hand. "There were pieces of flesh. The people were unrecognizable."


Those who had been to the crash site near the volcano's summit reported seeing wreckage strewn over a wide area and dismembered bodies. Local residents who participated in Tuesday's search returned with pieces of the plane and the passport of one of the victims - a Colombian nun.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/28/world/main325854.shtml

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FOUR

NEW YORK -- A small plane carrying New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor slammed into a 40-story apartment building Wednesday, killing both in a crash that rained flaming debris onto the sidewalks and briefly raised fears of another terrorist attack.

Residents were also allowed back into their apartments Thursday, except for the 29th through 31st floors, where most of the apartments were gutted by the fire and a six-story scorch mark marred the red brick.

Hersman said debris was scattered everywhere at the crash scene, including aircraft parts and headsets on the ground. The propeller separated from the engine. Investigators also obtained the pilot's log book.
Lidle's passport was found on the street, according to a federal official, speaking to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860

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FIVE

"Orange County, CA., Sept. 11 - Lisa Anne Frost was 22 and had just graduated from Boston University in May 2001 with two degrees and multiple academic and service honors. She had worked all summer in Boston before coming home, finally, to California to start her new life. The Rancho Santa Margarita woman was on United Flight 175 on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, when it became the second plane to slam into the World Trade Center...

Her parents, Tom and Melanie Frost, have spent two years knowing they will never understand why.

A few days before the first anniversary of our daughter's murder, we were notified that they had found a piece of her in the piles and piles of gritty rubble of the World Trade Center that had been hauled out to Staten Island. It was Lisa's way, we believe, of telling us she wasn't lost.

In February, the day of the Columbia tragedy, we got word they'd found her United Airlines Mileage Plus card. It was found very near where they'd found a piece of her right hip. We imagine that she used the card early on the morning of Sept. 11 to get on the plane and just stuck it in her back pocket, probably her right back pocket, instead of in her purse. They have found no other personal effects".

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:tI2PQRqfJiIJ:www.msnbc.com/local/MYOC/M324557.asp

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SIX

Flight 77

"During an interview earlier this week, Koch delicately handled eerie mementos of the crash found during cleanup: Whittington's battered driver's license... a burnt luggage tag and a wedding ring lie on a book dedicated to those lost in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. The wedding ring belonged to Ruth's daughter and the luggage tag belonged to one her granddaughters."
http://onlineathens.com/stories/091104/new_20040911030.shtml

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SEVEN AND EIGHT

The New York Times said at least two items of mail on the 9/11 planes were recovered:

On Oct. 12, it arrived inside a second envelope at Mrs. Snyder's modest white house on Main Street here, and the instant she took it out and saw it, she says, ''chills just went over me.'' It was singed and crumpled. A chunk was ripped out, giving the bottom of the envelope she had sent the look of a jagged skyline. Mrs. Snyder's lyrical script had blurred into the scorched paper. The stamp, depicting a World War II sailor embracing a woman welcoming him home, was intact.

Along with the letter was a note: ''To whom it may concern. This was found floating around the street in downtown New York. I am sorry if you suffered any loss in this tragedy. Sincerely, a friend in New York!''

Since then, Mrs. Snyder, a customer service representative at a grocery store, has discovered that she has one of only two pieces of mail known to have been recovered from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. At least one auction house has contacted her, saying she could sell the letter for tens of thousands of dollars.

One Letter's Odyssey Helps Mend a Wound
New York Times
December 20, 2001

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NINE

Satam Al Suqami's Pasport

TEN
The post card from the Hindenburg. (CREDIT TO Tom_Veil)
Hindenburg Crash Mail
The German zeppelin Hindenburg made sixty-three flights, including ten roundtrips to the United States in 1936. It met tragedy May 6, 1937.
This postcard was part of the mail salvaged from the wreckage. The U.S. Post Office Department enclosed the fragile, charred remains in a glassine envelope and officially sealed it before delivery to the addressee.


http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/museum/1d_Hindenburg.html

ELEVEN

Pages from an Israeli astronaut's diary that survived the explosion of the space shuttle Columbia and a 37-mile fall to earth are going on display this weekend for the first time in Jerusalem.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_astronaut _s_diary

CREDIT TO USAF2008




Jeromes Favorite Dream -

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Clearly, you have have a gift for researching factoids and presenting arguments. Why not use that gift to help Alex Jones and other conspiracy theorists in their missions to help raise the consciousness of the masses? If you don't agree with them, then present your arguments and give them the opportunity to fine tune their messages. Who knows, Alex Jones may retract some of his statements or back up his position with more evidence. I think your wasting your talents making these well researched and presented arguments on this obscure message board.






Live Long and Prosper!

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Who knows, Alex Jones may retract some of his statements or back up his position with more evidence. I think your wasting your talents making these well researched and presented arguments on this obscure message board.

Thanks but I don't think ALex is interested it facts, he is interested in marketing.


Jeromes Favorite Dream -

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how to discredit charlie sheen...

how about mention the mere fact that he is charlie sheen.

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