MovieChat Forums > Tropa de Elite (2007) Discussion > I'm delighted how one-sided this movie e...

I'm delighted how one-sided this movie ended up being

posted 13 years ago by chillyacademic
6 replies | jump to latest

Compared to other movies dealing with social ills, this movie was refreshing because it was the characters were so straightforward, at least in the second half. BOPE was awesome because they were uncorrupt, no-nonsense, and didn't ***** around with moral dilemmas when it came to getting the drug lords.

I was glad to finally see the good guys doing what was right, the bad guys getting their's.

Compare with City of God, where in fact there was no line between good and evil, the morally innocent getting trapped in **** circumstances and the drug dealers trying to get out.
__________________________________________

"So fair, yet so cold"

[–] actionfilm-2 13 years ago

The film has recieved criticism with some (rather shortsighted imho) folk labeling it as facist. I think the film was fair in it's portrayal of all parties involved, all protaganists were three dimensional characters, including the cops. The rampant corruption within the police force was shown, BOPE's heavy handed tactics were not hidden, and if anything the social ills caused by the narco traficantes was perhaps underplayed (understandable, in order to keep the film within scale).

BOPE teammembers weren't even painted as shining heroes, but because they were not portayed strictly in a negative light some take issue, I suspect by the same folk who criticize law enforcement and the military in general. In the film BOPE is seen as brutal, unsypmathetic, etc. towards the drug trafficers, this in order to do their job, as to do otherwise would perhaps cost them their lives and the lives of others. Though to say there is no moral dilemma is only half right, they don't wrestle with it on the street, but the effects of the job take a heavy toll nonetheless. Evidenced by Nascimento's verging on mental collapse and Matias' loss of virtue. I applaud the film, if only the ridiculous SWAT film had a fraction of the cajones that Elite Squad displays.

[–] breno_bacci 13 years ago

I guess what we have to look into here is not whether or not the movie has a message, but how do we interpret that message. One can interpret it like you two on this thread, if you happen to believe that summary execution of some people (hardened criminals or terrorists) is not only acceptable but desirable. That's not my case.

And I'm delighted to know that was not what Padilha went for, either. That the Brazilian audience thought the movie was pro-BOPE and cheered with drug-traffickers being murdered says a lot about our country's education. And also shows that, among our supposedly-educated, the prohibitionist stupidity is still alive and kicking. How else could anybody keep blaming "the medium class" addicted to coke and MJ?

Anyways, it's just depressing. It's depressing that you don't get the movie. If you watched TDE2, you've seen that deputado (congressman) with a TV show... You prohibitionist guys are the ones electing this kind of evil people. I could name the ones we have today on both the Federal and São Paulo State houses... The guys pushing for more repression are obviously the ones profiting the most out of repression. But instead of coming clean and saying it's just for the money, they fool those who are easy to fool with this "war on Drugs" absurdity.

I wonder when will we grow up.
__________________
Let's all agree to keep signatures apart from text body?

[–] actionfilm-2 13 years ago

First of all, the OP speaks for themself, and by the same token, I speak for myself. I'll leave it to the OP to defend their position. As for myself, here is my response.

You find it easy to summarily lump the both of us into a single category, because you have a pre-concieved and dogmatic notion of what the film represents, and for anyone to draw a different conclusion, offends your sensibilities. So much so, that you go so far as to make the leap that I likely endorse, or your word "desire", on the spot capital punishment for offenders. How you drew that conclusion my friend, only you know.

Again, I see the film as neither an argument for or against the manner in which BOPE conducts operations in the war against drugs. Because it (BOPE) is a mechanism. It operates according to the system. You believe the film has a "message", I consider the film mostly as documentation (and yes, I understand it is a work of fiction, based on truth, with which it takes liberties, as all films do). You are correct in one thing, I don't "GET" it, if getting it means I have to draw a conclusion other than the situation represented in the film is a grim, desperate, and a sad one all the way around.

You think we don't have self loathing Americans here in the U.S.? Of course we do. So I understand, you loathe the police force, you loathe certain politicians, you loathe the Brazilian audiences who cheer, and then you give a pass to those who sell, profit from, and use and abuse drugs. Some logic. I submit to you that if there is enough blame to go around, it should be SHARED by some other than the system and BOPE itself.

[–] breno_bacci 13 years ago

"...and then you give a pass to those who sell, profit from, and use and abuse drugs. Some logic."

Well, if you change the word drugs for Prozac, alcohol, or any of the licit drugs, nobody would have a problem with giving all the people involved in the market a pass. Or any other substance we drink or eat, for that matter. Why is it OK to produce, trade, use and eventually abuse (or use in a bad way) some substances like junk food, oil, water... while a bunch of specific plants are not legal, is beyond me. Actually, I know why some why things are like that. But that's not the point.

You're right about several things on your reply. First, notwithstanding the absurdity of the War on Drugs I've mentioned, yes abusers must share the guilt. But that's always a problem. You expect criminals to, you know, commit crimes. You expect the population to be dumb and easily manipulated by either side. But you don't expect, or I should say, we shouldn't ever expect for established government institutions and police to consistently engage on wrongdoing. That's a police state, and this is certainly not something either you on the US and myself in Brazil believe we live on, I assume. For the crowd to cheer on institutionalized torture, either here for ES2 or in the US for Jack Bauer, is scary to say the least. You can't deny the War on Drugs has been strongly one-sided, at least when it comes to body count. That was my beef. You're right about balancing the blame. I just wanted to point out that, in a democratic country, the good guys can't do the stuff that the bad guys do.

And you're also right about me being unfair on judging your original post as if you were pro-torture, or something. I was obviously still caught up with the emotions of the OP's absurdly cynical view. Your analysis was quite fair and did not deserve the response it did from me. For that I apologize.

__________________
Let's all agree to keep signatures apart from text body?

[–] actionfilm-2 13 years ago

Appreciate the apology, especially since very few offer one, you my friend are a person of class and consideration.

While we don't see eye to eye on some of these matters, the very real danger of a populace being subjugated to a police state is certainly not something any sane person would desire, and while I may not be entirely sane, you may indeed assume even I would not support such an ominous thing.

[–] federicoarbelaezz 13 years ago

Overall, I think that the goal of the movie is just to portray a given situation within Rio, and how it has resulted in the creation of something like BOPE. If both the state and police worked efficiently, and without corruption, there wouldn't be any need of BOPE, but, as we see in the movie, both drug dealers, police and state work together to exploit, and divide profits from drug trade.

The bottom line of the problem is that you can't reason, negotiate, or make repent, murderers and corrupts. Nor you can process them through a failed justice system, who works to protect them. An extreme solution like BOPE, is only the direct result of such an extreme problem.

In theory, as a solution for such a problem, BOPE works well, since it employs an incorruptible, highly trained and focused force, to obtain results, with minimum collateral damages. It's far from ideal, but we have to take into account the equal ruthlessness of the drug trade.

Nonetheless, as we get a chance to see in tropa 2, the real danger of BOPE, is the fact that in the end it's a highly lethal weapon, that can prove deadly of wielded by the wrong people. In this case, the corrupt governor and politician friends, who use BOPE as a puppet for their own means.

In no way can BOPE, or any similar force be seen as a solution for a social problems like those in Brazil, Mexico and Colombia. Since they are deeply rooted, and originate from the lack of education and opportunities, and BOPE are only treating the symptoms, not curing the source of illness. Sadly the use of force is required to keep drug dealers, Guerrilas, Paramilitary, and terrorist at bay, while at the same time money and resources are invested on children's education.

At the same time, if there is an specific teaching that I get from the movie, is that the purchase of ilicit drugs, comes at a very high price. I one buys or consumes them,one is directly sponsoring drug dealers, murderers, kidnappers, war lords, and basically all the scum of the earth. Blaming the gov for not legalizing is just a lazy excuse to justify yourself the right to smoke a joint. In the end you are sponsoring death and suffering.