I mean, sure there are some pretty similar structures in the Brazilian Military, but is there any like this BOPE here ? The guys in black uniforms, storming in the favelas and kicking the bad guys' ass? As far as I know the security problem in the south-american favelas is pretty far from being solved even nowadays. If such a unit exists how come they didn't manage to clean those places yet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOPE
Just like said in the movie, there is only one unit limited resources and hundreds of favelas. And for every dead drug dealer another one stands up.
Space, the Final Frontier
Yeah, I guess it makes sense. Great movie, though. Thanks.
shareBOPE does exist! Would be close to impossibel to clean those places out. As long as people do drugs, there will be drug dealers and "turf wars."
shareThe BOPE is a very real thing indeed. Everything from the uniform to the beret to the crossed pistols and skull emblem. It is only an minor entity to the Brazilian Military Police (which would be SWAT or SAS)specifically trained for urban warfare. Remember, more people are killed in Rio's favelas every month than in one year of the Israelo-Palestinian conflict.
The criminality that cripples these neighbourhoods comes from the essence of the Brazilian social structure, most visible in cities like Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paulo. Indeed, such a contrast between rich in poor is hard to find elsewhere in the world, there is no middle class. The underprivileged must stay on the top of the hill (like Morro dos Prazeres in this film) whereas the wealthy are comfortable by the beach.
It is a problem that is not easily solved. The police are paid a pittance and have little social security, risking their lives for little appreciation and even less remuneration. In the same respect, the 'favelados' have little self-esteem as they are not acknowledged by the richer demographic, so resort to crime as an easy way to earn money and respect. The police will often be corrupt, dealing with these very gangsters. Why do you think there is such broad gun and drug trafficking in Brazil's shantitowns?
If anything, this film is the perfect social study. The BOPE will not make things better, just more dangerous. The best way to rid ourselves of the gangrene that is crime in such cities is to encourage community development, education, creativity and sport. These 'favelados' - especially the children - have the greatest potential and will do wonders if they are just given the opportunities - opportunites that us westerners take for granted. Next time you complain about going to school, think about how lucky you are to have a school that is paid for, maintained and equipped. That you can pay for the bus and take it without being mugged. That you can walk down the street without catching a stray bullet. That you can eat. That you have health insurance. The horrors represented on screen happen to women, children and fathers every day. Bullets don't discriminate.
I do not want to come across as condescending, if anything I am glad you asked this question. People need to realise that what you see in these films is real. In fact no, its worse. I spent 5 months in the very favela in Tropa de Elite, and although I never witnessed a confrontation between the criminal factions and the BOPE, I certainly HEARD them on average twice a day. On several occasions I have had to duck and cover. I have had assault rifles pointed at me by coked-up Comando Vermelho (wikipedia it). Every time I see this film is like a shellshock. It is hard for me to watch, but it reminds me of what is going on. I can' afford to let myself forget. I find westerners tend to emulate what they like about a culture and reject the rest. We are very comfortable being hundreds of miles away. When you are thrust into the middle of it though, you will never see things the same way again, let me assure you.
This is something I take very much to heart, as you may have noticed. If you wish to read further into this, as I have done, I recommend the book that the movie was based on, Elite da Tropa (i don't know if it has been translated from portuguese though): it gives a more in-depth analysis of the situation in Rio, from the point of view of a former BOPE member who quit through disgust. I also recommend you watch such documentaries as Favela Rising, Onibus 173, and the TV show City of Men (much more representative than the film). I take it you have already seen City of God. Also, look out for a book that may be released next year, an anthology of essays commissioned to be written about the social representations in Tropa de Elite, edited by a Professor Else Vieira.
I would be more than glad to hear your opinion or to answer any of your questions about this subject as I am writing a dissertation about it. Feel free to contact me.
Hello bugzlayer, thank you very much for all the details and for the explanations you gave me. I have read your reply till the end and I understand why you take things so seriously - serious problems require serious attention, indeed. My question about the existance of the BOPE was not meant to sound sarcastic. The BOPE squads, as depicted in the film, look really impressive and efficient (I don't question here their methods). For a so called "westerner" - in fact I live in the Eastern Europe :) - it was a mistery how such a well trained, spectacular, and more important, uncorruptable unit didn't manage to lower crime, drug dealing and violence in a city not even in 10 years time (the action of the film was supposed to happen back in 1997). Indeed, after a little google-ing and wiki-ing I discovered the multiple facettes of the problem, and certainly, as you said, the solution to these kinds of issues is not a military squad, but a whole series of social measures that need to be adopted, due to the fact that the roots of these issues go deep in the Brazilian society's way of life, as you said, and as another user pointed out before. Thank you again for clearing some of the aspects for me and I will look for the materials you mentioned (havn't seen City of God yet but I intend to). Cheers and good luck!
sharebugzlayer - awesome post. Best post I have ever read on IMDB. I am currently watching the City of Men tv series and hope to watch the movie when I am done. Ever since watching the City of God I have become obsessed with film about the favelados in Brazil. I could not imagine living under those circumstances. I was shocked in the City of Men tv series that the favelados are not even represented on the maps, just shown as a large green spot. Best of luck with your work!
shareThanks to you both, I am glad to hear that you take such an interest in this matter, and I am delighted that I have been able to raise even a little awareness!
As you have pointed out, the roots to this problem pry deep into the history of Brazil, back to the aspects of Portuguese colonialism. One must not forget that Brazil was the last country in the western hemisphere to abolish slavery. What you see today are the vestiges of years of hardship.
During my time in Rio, I noticed that there is a gargantuan social divide. Granted there is a financial aspect, but more so a front of poor communication, and therefore poor understanding. Media plays a big role in this confusion, as members of the upper-class may associate the horrors they see on the headlines of television reports or newspapers, not to mention films such as the ones aforementioned exclusively to the lower-class, namely the residents of such favelas. Inevitably self-esteem is affected, and some take to crime in search of either fortune or respect, or both.
The BOPE is an entity that will only fuel the fire. Youngsters are already exchanging fire amongst themselves, affecting the entire community, on a local and national scale. The presence of a unit specially trained in urban combat - the most efficient in the world - gives them just another enemy to fight. Of course the small amount of these BOPE officers that abuse their power in the name of corruption to make an extra hundred Reais a month (let's not forget that the police risk their lives for a miserable pay, in this light their actions are understandable albeit condemnable) will unfortunately only result in guns being handed to younger and younger children.
It is a hard issue to put in a nutshell, and in this respect my views are opinionated. It is hard for them not to be.
These films are a good thing. They raise awareness to foreigners, and draw attention to the locals. They help the communities financially.
And morally.
bugzlayer
Question for you - Have there been any efforts in education? In the City of Men TV series it appeared the children when to a school with a dress code. I was wondering if there have been any efforts to get kids from these areas into private schools and/or some sort of after school programs? Reason I am asking, I close to a few after school program involving the sport squash. The programs are located in the poorest areas i.e. the South Bronx. The program also serves as tutoring and community involvement. So far the results have been amazing, with most of the students attending college. Wondering if there have been any such efforts in Brazil? Excluding the "socially conscience" drug lords.
adresher,
despite many efforts made in the education circle, the fact is that the public state-run schools do not have enough funds for progress (free education can only be so adequate). School uniforms are required in both the public and private schools. There are many after school programs available such as football (soccer to some), grafitti, capoeira, arts and crafts, samba schools and computer classes that these kids do indeed attend, not to mention the availability of the church for choir services (more popular than you may imagine).
i believe that you are referring to grants for promising students, or sports scholarships? they do exist, but are scarce. in this respect there are more promising students than there are grants, so unfortunately some kids will not be given the opportunities that they deserve.
i was working in an after school community center as an english teacher. Many jobs in Brazil do not require the qualifications that are demanded in the US or Europe, so the knowledge of a foreign language can lead one into the tourism industry, very very big in cities such as rio. this could be a way forward. What is needed are volunteers to teach, and motivated kids who are willing to go to 'school', even after school.
Thanks for the information. Hopefully in the next couple generations more scholarships and grants will become available. It takes time, but hopefully after each passing generation this will improve. Also hopefully there will be an increase in volunteer work. Are there any organizations you trust that one can donate?
share[deleted]
#bugzlayer
Thank you for posting on this thread, I have read your comments and found them to be very useful.
I have a question for you:
Apart from the books already mentioned, can you recommend any material covering the themes and problems presented in Tropa de Elite, translated to, or written in english?
It's not that simple AT ALL.
In an interview with the very man that inspired Captain Nascimento (captain Pimentel), he acknowledges easily that BOPE won't solve anything. That education is the way.
BOPE is meant to contain the spreading of violence and crime. You say that BOPE never lowered crime rates. That's because you and I never get to see the crimes that WOULD happen if BOPE did not exist.
I apologize, but you're being very arrogant thinking that no one in Brazil thought of things like you do. But it's not that simple.
BOPE is very necessary. Before the government of Leonel Brizola as governor of Rio, the drug traffic was all over the place, not only on favelas. Then BOPE intervened. And managed to clean the whole city, and contain the crime to favelas.
BOPE is a blessing.
The only solution to all these problems is the legalization of drugs, control of the sales and reduction of damage through education and clinics. I'd assume war and jails costs more then education and healing of addicts. And if you think drugs will disappear in the foreseeable future one way or the other, you are naive. Drugs are here to stay, the only thing we can influence as a civilization is the amount of damage. And the way we are doing it now, we are boosting that damage and it has already gone through the roof.
You can make a law that would make masturbation illegal, but you would never be able to apply that law. The same issue applies to drugs.
For those of you who think the drug use will go up after legalization, you've been lied to. See for yourself the statistics of the countries that have relaxed the drug laws (or partially ignore the laws themselves). See the statistics of the Portugal for example, the country that up until recently had the most relaxed drug laws in Europe (pick any page, they all say the same thing: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=the+drug+use+in +Portugal&btnG=Google+Search).
The legalization is not happening because of many groups that have a vested interest in keeping them illegal and are bribing the politicians in keeping the status quo. The drug dealers are not to blame, they are just stupid and born into such situation. The corrupt politics, pharmaceutical companies, tobacco & alcohol, light weapons manufacturers and many, many others take the blame for the horrible situation.
And we all should know by now that the governments of the world are the biggest drug dealers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking - don't believe the wikipedia, check the sources for yourself). They like to keep them illegal in order to increase the prices 10000 fold and to have an easy way of discrediting a dangerous political opponents and dissidents.
BOPE and drug lords are really manipulated by the same people and are not that different from each other, both morally and mentally...
I hope you include the solution of legalization in your dissertation, bugzlayer, because it is the only thing that would reduce the drug related deaths.
Im from the UK. We have a show called World Elite Cops, dont know whether they have it anywhere else, but basically ex-SAS Chris Ryan trains with elite police forces around the world. One of the shows he trained with BOPE and then went with them into the streets and saw some combat.
Not sure if anyone else saw this but it was a really good watch.
---------------------------------
Last film seen -> A Room for Romeo Brass
(8/10)
Thanks will look for that on Netflix!
shareWow, thanks a lot for this; it's all on youtube, and it's a very good watch indeed!
shareWe could use these guys in New Orleans.
shareWell, the film is based on a novell, which is based on partially real events with fictionel characters, so yes they do exist.
shareThe real bope is not that good, they screw up a lot, just like regular police, a few years ago they killed a hostage female teacher
shareTo : BrazilDandyDude
Who said the movie shows that Bope is great? The movie actually did show the bad side of the coin, that these men become even crazy and might even kill innocent people while dealing with threats. Besides look at the training and the situations they go through, no human can survive such harsh conditions without changing to the worse. But I assume they are indeed necessary to limit the chaos and the drug problems on places like those neighborhoods in Brazil for instance.
[deleted]
yap.. it's very useful ;)
shareThat's because BOPE and the crime in Rio can't afford pretty things like warrants like in the dumb, lazy, rich and safe countries in the rest of the world. It's a war. While drugdealers have no morals whatsoever and do whatever they want, the police has to follow rules and laws. Sometimes they can't. If BOPE acted like the angels you people want it to act, it would vanish quickly.
shareBOPE is for sure the most experienced special forces of the world.
Experienced like everyday.
Thats it.
the police DOES have to follow rules and laws. Otherwise, whats the difference between them and the people they are put there to fight against? Rules and laws are the very reason why police exists. Fact is that death penalty is not covered by law in Brazil and the many deaths that occur during police incursions in the favelas (BOPE or the ordinary squads) are executions seconded by a huge part of brazilian society. Executions without trials. Of slum criminal population. Never a white collar criminal. BOPE is just a big symbol of the social abism that marks the brazilian society, where it is "not-so-unofficialy" accepted to kill SUSPECTS (they are never guilty until proven in a court of law) in the slums. So much as every news headline that covers a police operation where a few favelados end up dead, there's always a special attetion given to the police record of the decesead. Of course, when there's no record, they are just seen as "casualties", as if being poor and living in a slum makes a life less worthy. BOPE is not the solution. It's just part of the problem.
são paulo "ROTA" is the toughest one here in brasil
share