MovieChat Forums > Evangelion Shin Gekijôban: Ha (2009) Discussion > Only thing that got me annoyed.

Only thing that got me annoyed.

posted 13 years ago by Wezqu
16 replies | jump to latest

They removed Toji from being a pilot. I would have taken him as new pilot anyday than this Asuka copy in pink plugsuit. I really hope Toji is the pilot of the Eva-08 or they really made the badest decision of the life time. In the original series Eva-03 fight was one of the best scenes in the whole series as Shinji fought his "best" friend and ended up hurting him badly. Then you could really believe they might kill the character but in this the moment I heard Asuka is going to pilot it there was no reason to believe they would kill her off. It also felt like over playing the scene when Eva-01 had the tube in its mouth. I liked more of the old one where Shinji sees it being crushed by the Eva-01 hand.

[–] Druff 13 years ago

Why not just watch the original series again?

[–] Wezqu 13 years ago

I have to ask what is you point in saying that to me? Why would I watch the old show again when I want to see what this new one looks like? They just wasted great scene by making it less pointless in this new version. Thats just my opinion of that scene.

[–] taterboob 13 years ago

I believe that Druff's point is to say that, even if you don't like the way that they handled the scene in the Rebuild movies, the original series will still be there. I personally have loved the original series for thirteen years now, and I love the new movies as well. As powerful as the original series' take on the Unit 03 pilot situation was, I can understand why Anno and his fellow cohorts at Khara felt it necessary to switch things up.

1. Longtime fans of the TV series/EoE know the story inside out, and this is a way of presenting them with something that would be fresh (I know I was certainly surprised). I guess it's kind of a similar concept to the Walking Dead TV series diverting from the storyline of the comic book.

2. Inversely, new fans that were introduced to the world of Eva through these movies will probably say "I kind of dig this Evangelion thing, maybe I'll check out the older stuff". They will also be presented with something unexpected, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I'm not saying that I don't see your point of view however. As an example, I personally hated the '09 remake/reboot of Friday the 13th, because I have loved that movie series for the better part of two decades now, and I didn't feel that the '09 film represented what made the series great (I could say the same thing about Resident Evil 4, Dragonball GT, Indy 4, Alien 3+, George Romero's more recent 'Dead' films, the Star Wars Prequels, etc.). The Jason Vorhees from the remake acted nothing like the original, taking prisoners, setting traps, and many other uncharacteristic acts. It wasn't until much later that I stepped back, took a few breaths, and realized that even though I didn't like the new movie, the series that I had grown to love over the years would always be there.

tl;dr I encourage you to rewatch Eva 2.22 again with a more open mind, because it is very good in its own right. Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that the original series will remain as great as it ever was.

[–] Wezqu 13 years ago

Just to point out to both of you this movie got 10 from me. I'm not that blind that I would rate a good movie badly just because I prefered one scene from the original series to be better. Its still a good scene but I was just saying I prefer the older one as it was more dramatic. It might also be that I didn't ever be much of a Asuka fan but I liked Toji's character and if they really are leaving him to be a side character in this new version is a mistake on my opinion.

[–] zwoopmugen 11 years ago

New fans would not relate to Toji since we only see him punch Shinji. It's not hard to understand why they switched to Asuka. However, considering how annoying she is, I don't think new fans will care about her either. Now, if they had used Rei instead, nobody would be complaining. I mean, she is a clone right? Why risk a good pilot on a new untested robot.

[–] Druff 13 years ago

Because the core of your complaint is "Arg, they changed something from the original series!" You're welcome to your opinion, obviously. I happen to value every change they make in this rebuild. The bigger the changes, the better. I've already seen two forms of the original series, multiple times over the last 14 years. I'm more than ready for new stuff, for better or worse. Bringing in a new character and not making Toji a pilot is, if nothing else, fresh. Not stale. For me the main thing is, does the change make sense *IN THE CONTEXT OF THE NEW STORY?* In this case I think the answer, so far, is yes.

[–] Wezqu 13 years ago

No, it really isn't the core of my complaint as its not really even a complaint. My post is basicly just constructive critisim and it is just my opinion of a scene that I think was pulled off better in the original. Some people really should learn how to read what people write and not classify every negative comment as some fanboy crying how they ruined something. This is a discussion forum but its always clear that negative posts are usually attacked by people who see the movie/series perfect and don't want anyone saying anything bad about them. Just to note as I said earlier that I gave this movie 10 stars here so I'm not even claiming the movie is bad.

[–] Druff 13 years ago

When you point out that something annoys you, that's a complaint. There's nothing wrong with complaining per se, but if someone is going to go out of their way to make their opinion known in a public space, shouldn't they be prepared to hear from people with the opposite opinion i.e. disagree?

How could it possibly be classified as "constructive criticism"? "Constructive criticism" is when you criticize flaws so that they can be improved/fixed. Do you think Gainax is going to read your post and take your advice when they do another EVA rebuild in 15 years?

They made a change in the rebuild, and you prefer what they did in the original. I have a different opinion, and I replied to your post. And while I admit I was glib, sticking with the original version does seem to me to be the solution to the issue you have with this show.

[–] Wezqu 13 years ago

To me the word annoyed ment that the scene was not all it could have been. That doesn't make it a complaint. Just my observation of the scene. Also I didn't go out my way to post that as I am on this sites boards almost every day. So to me posting here is quite common. Your point of opposite opinion would be valid if you yourself could have posted the first time something that ment something that might not be considered childish comment against me.

That constructive criticism comment was again you taking it literal meaning of the thing when I ment it as criticism that can be talked about here on the forum. I'm not expecting anyone of the makers of this movie to ever even read this.

You are entitled to your opinion and as you yourself pointed that your first post was not really a good one so I'm not holding it against you. I will say this again as you don't seem to get what I'm saying. I'm not taking a side here of what I would rather watch as I enjoy both and I don't really even understand you opinion that I should just stick with the old series when I have several times stated that I see these movies as good as the original series. I just don't have to agree that everything in these new movies is somehow better than it was in the original series. This topic was ment as a discussion of if others agree or don't. I welcome any opinion if its not just one sentence saying something like "Stick with the original series then" as thats not even an opinion. I also like to say that nothing I say here should be taken personally as its not really ment that way.

[–] taterboob 13 years ago

"Your point of opposite opinion would be valid if you yourself could have posted the first time something that ment something that might not be considered childish comment against me."

Childish comment? Dude, all he said was you can always watch the original series again if you think that version of this scene is better. You're responding like he said something horrible about your mother. Nobody is doubting your enjoyment of these films. Not that it matters anyway, everybody's entitled to their opinions. Heck, that's what these forums are for. I just find your slight overreaction to this simple comment puzzling and a little silly. No need to be so defensive, 'sall I'm saying.

[–] Wezqu 13 years ago

I'm not overreacting as I'm not taking it personally, but his comment was not constructive or even had anything to say about the subject. It might not be childish when he posted it but after two of his answers it really starts to feel like it. His response was in short him telling me what to do even if it was made look like a question. I even answered his question by asking why I would go watch the old series when I want to see what happens in these movies? He then goes to expain not really even answering and then even nitpicking my post because it wasn't grammatically correct. He then proceed to repeat his statement in the end of his third post making it seem that I would have to somehow agree with his opinion and go watch the old series. This is like me telling you twice to go make a ham sandwich when you rather would have tuna sandwich. It still doesn't mean you don't like the ham sandwich but you just don't feel like eating one right now.

[–] Druff 13 years ago

Wow. You know what, I retract my statement. Have a nice day.

[–] SW_Jones 13 years ago

"I have to ask what is you point in saying that to me?"

Saying that to YOU? This is why people are reacting the way they are to you, dude. Make of it what you will.

It's not because they disagree with you, you disagree with them. It's because your *tone* is coming across as personally offended.

I loved all the plot twists and changes, personally. Even right down to Asuka trying to slap Rei on the elevator, and Rei actually stopping her by *SPOILERS*

grabbing her wrist.

[–] nearlyprescient 13 years ago

I think the idea is that they're pushing the romance this time around. Where in the original series, there was the whole "Who is the new pilot?" build up, and of all the hints at Toji, here it was the sort of growing romance. Asuka seemed to be genuinely interested in Shinji. That's why we have her half of the conversation with Misato, which to me, at least, came across as pretty phony. Or, I mean, she was trying to convince herself she felt that way though she didn't actually.

In a way, they even added in the whole depression thing from the end of the series, I think, as Asuka can't even pilot unit 2 when they make her the test pilot for 03. Yet, being a pilot is important to her. They try to make her a little more likable, and make her struggle to impress Shinji more resonant. I think that was the logic.

I don't think it's as effective because they still use the dummy system. I think it would have been a totally different scene if Shinji attacked anyway, regardless of whether he actually knew or not. Realistically, I think that would have been more in line with the feeling they were trying to inspire.

[–] jamasian_man 12 years ago

I liked the new series, but the only thing I disliked was the use of those two japanese songs in Evangelion 2.0 It was okay the first time, but when they used another one for the end it got repetitive.

Also I love Mari, she's pretty cool and can't wait to see what they do with her character.

[–] endofthegame 12 years ago

Honestly, I thought the same thing. While I loved the movie (wasn't as fond of 1.0) I too couldn't help but compare it to the original series. The music that was added to that particular scene the OP brought up took away from it's dark matter. I loved the movie, and thought the fight scenes were for the most part excellent, but the movie did have A LOT of cheesey dialogue, and some of the animation looked 3D, which I'm sure some people dig, but I'm not one of them. I like things that look hand drawn, not computer animated. They also took out one of the best scenes, when Asuka gets mind raped. And they dumbed down the best scene in the series, when Toji gets slaughtered.

In the movie, Shinji can't see what's going on, so that was a big fail, it took away from the horror the original had. I appreciate that the remake was supposed to make changes, and I really enjoyed most of them as they were new and fresh, but that scene in particular was perfect in the series, and they didn't need to change it - in my opinion.

I take it this is why the OP started this thread, to see if others, like me, thought the same as him. If you told me to watch the original series instead, that's fair enough, but then what's the point of having an open forum? We naturally compare things, and enjoy discussing these comparisons, are you going to tell people on The Ring forum that they should stick to the original Japanese film if they pointed out one thing in the US version they didn't like? Then again, the comment was totally fair, the OP is the one who made a deal out of it.

But yes, I agree, that scene was completely stripped of it's original atmosphere; a step backwards in my honest opinion. And just so you know, right after that scene I paused the movie and watched the original scene from the series, I then tried to forget the one I saw in the remake and turned it on again.