MovieChat Forums > The Visitor (2008) Discussion > One Word: 'WOW!!'

One Word: 'WOW!!'

posted 16 years ago by Ninja_GaiDaniel
40 replies | jump to latest

Totally impressive. I mean, the movie seemed to be going no-where, but it got a few giggles out of me. It seemed to be making some generalized and uninteresting statements about racial diversity that will only enlighten the very obtuse. But it had an old white guy playing a street drum like a black man, so I chuckled a bit, and hoped to actually start caring about the characters to some degree.

But then, right smack dab in the center of the movie, it unexpectedly turns into a big heaping bowl of liberal propaganda about illegal immigrants and the heartless organism that is the U.S. of A!

Wow! Where the Hell did that come from?

I had the rare pleasure to be able to see this movie without knowing ANYTHING about it. To bad that pleasure had to be squashed by depictions of state agents that don't care about human beings, and an all-too-literal rant from a formerly-apathetic 'enlightened' white man.

Yeah, yeah... he just wanted to play his drums and live life and spread love. What's so wrong with that baby? Well, it's really easy to point to a fictitious depiction DESIGNED to illustrate a specific point-of-view, and somehow exemplify that MADE-UP scenario as 'typical' and 'eye-opening'.

I don't mind movies that have a certain point-of-view, even when they differ from my own, even when they are unexpected. But when it's as blatant and subversive as The Visitor was, I'm not going to judge it as a film, I'm going to judge it by the political AGENDA that is very obviously being shoved down my throat. In that respect, I don't think it's a loony-tunes position that we can all make music and live together and be hippies and blah blah blah PER SE....

But my problem with liberal (sorry for the generalized term) view-points, isn't that they have a thought-line that is irrational, it's that I rarely see suggestions for practical alternatives. Do we degrade the standards by which we allow people to move here? Are we to let anyone and everyone through our boarders? Do we destroy this illusion of 'boarders' and let free roaming reign? Screw security, assume the best in all men and trust your brothers and sisters? All rights and benefits, like welfare, are open and flowing the moment you step off the boat? Are you really so short-sighted to think any of these are practical and viable solutions? For most people, they know these are not options, and that's way they aren't seriously suggested. But I don't hear any truly, usable suggestions, really. And that's my point.

But let's pretend for a moment that Tarek was a real person and his case an actual event. Would I care if he spent his days playing the drums in the street, though he was here illegally? Not really, it wouldn't bother me much. Stay out of trouble and pay your taxes.

But if he gets caught and deported? I'm not going to cry.

Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!

[–] jordan-355 16 years ago

You hit the nail on the head! Perfect!

[–] jedwards8 16 years ago

Yeah, I was offended by the fact that the movie wasn't really about Walter when it was marketed as so. And of course I don't think that undocumented immigrants should be able to roam free on our soil. I thought The Visitor was saying they should---but when I read some media on the site mentioned at the end of the movie (www.participate.net) I found out it wasn't saying that at all. They're really trying to raise awareness about conditions in detainment centers, and questions such as:

-Should illegal immigrants be treated the same as criminals who have done direct harm to others?

-Should detainment be outsourced to private contract facilities? What problems could this cause?

-Must we deport illegal immigrants who were trying to escape persecution in their home countries? Should we grant more refugees the right to live in our country?

I think the main alternative that The Visitor proposed was that detainees have right to a fair trial so that we can solve the above problems without letting anyone and everyone swarm through our borders. Of course not everyone wants to just be happy and play drums all day! There are seriously malevolent people who want to get through our borders. But there are also well-meaning people who try to come here---and according to this movie and other things I've heard (I don't know too much about the subject) they get treated very poorly and under recent laws have very little freedom to defend themselves. That was a major complaint of the movie---Tarek was deported without even getting to defend himself.

[–] Ninja_GaiDaniel 16 years ago

Fact: The United States accepts more refugees than every other nation on this planet put together. I'm going to be the 'cold bastard' that has to stand up and say we can't take everyone and we must turn some people away.

And why should they get a trail? Those are your tax dollars and mine going towards a VERY pricey effort that can be solved with one question: "Where is your green card?" Don't have one? Get back on the boat.

I really don't want to be black and white with this, I get that these are human beings. But we simply can NOT take every sob story on the planet. We MUST turn people back.

And any respectful understanding of the movie's message was lost on me when Tarek's mother said "This is just like Syria." Excuse-fuvcking-me?? I don't get offended in general, and especially from some movie, but that came close to pissing me off something fierce. The United States and it's immigration policies ARE LIKE SYRIA? Anyone who gives sympathy to this idea should plan their next vacation for Syria, since they are apparently so used to an evil regime invading their lives. So many Americans (me included) are so incredibly SPOILED by what they have compared to the rest of the world. Even ghettos and trailer parks are 10 steps up from what many people spend their entire LIVES in.

But The Visitor disagrees.... No, we're no better than Syria.

Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!

[–] bloovee 16 years ago

I presume you know that your remark that the USA "accepts more refugees than every other nation" is true only in terms of official resettlement - not in terms of how many refugees each country actually takes over its borders (where the countries who take the most are those adjacent to where the refugees are fleeing). Even so, there are nearly a million refugees in the USA, but that's not like 10% of the population, as it is for Syria.

Surely the point about comparing the USA to Syria is that she fled Syria because of injustice, and feels that injustice is what she's getting from the USA.

[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 8 years ago

Ok. I hate to be "that guy" but seriously???

You don't know the difference between borders and boarders and trail and trial????

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

[–] smidget28 14 years ago

Oh, gee, I thought this movie was TOTALLY about WALTER....I can't believe you didn't see that? It's about his personal journey to discover his life again with the assistance of this situation.....

Now Playing: Whatever movie I am commenting on for the time being.

[–] robschmidt 16 years ago

Considering you thought the movie had an agenda, it's too bad you misunderstood what the agenda was. It was NOT to allow illegal immigrants to roam free with all the rights and benefits of citizens. It was to treat those immigrants like human beings---to treat them fairly, decently, humanely. And NOT to lock them up for months without a hearing and then deport them without a word to their loved ones.

Let me reiterate that. The movie didn't treat Tarek's deportation as a terrible tragedy. The main tragedy was the effect on his girlfriend and mother. Their lives were overturned too--and they didn't receive anything from the US government. Not even a courtesy phone call or postcard.

[–] skotheim 14 years ago

They where illegals too! Even if the government wanted to send them a postcard, how would it reach them if their whereabouts where unknown.

The movie raises some questions though: Why treat illegals like Tarek as criminals, in fact, worse than criminals since there was no information about the length of his imprisonment. Some people in his situation even spend years there, not knowing and not having a chance to explain. His mother might have done wrong, but he didn't, he was a kid when leaving Syria and where not informed about the official letter telling them to leave. I think the real wrong doing of the bureaucracy happened when it spent three years(!) to decide whether or not they could stay. This is not unusual and this practice gives asylum seekers time to build a new life just to take it away from them. It would be more human to turn down their application after a few days or weeks. But I guess the immigration lawyers wouldn't make as much money that way. I think that no rich free country can have open borders and stay rich and free, not when travel is as easy as it is today. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be sad and angry if Tarek and his mother where my friends. I did not see this movie as propaganda, just a story about loneliness, friendship and an unfair world. But the biggest unfairness here of course happens in the dictatorship that is Syria.

[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 8 years ago

They where illegals too! Even if the government wanted to send them a postcard, how would it reach them if their whereabouts where unknown.

Oops! Didn't see your post and posted the same thing below.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 8 years ago

and they didn't receive anything from the US government. Not even a courtesy phone call or postcard.

Well since they were illegals too you can hardly blame the US government for that, but still I totally agree with the rest of your post.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

[–] robschmidt 16 years ago

[–] Ninja_GaiDaniel 16 years ago

hum.... Please allow me time to reconsider the movie under the premise you've given me.

Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!

[–] robschmidt 16 years ago

The biggest injustice was Tarek's being arrested in the first place. As we saw, he didn't do anything. Yet the police stopped him, harassed him, and arrested him.

Why...because they knew he was illegal? No, because he didn't look "right." Because the police have the power to screw with people whether they're Americans or not.

[–] SylvesterMcMonkeyMcBean 16 years ago

He got Walter through the turnstile on his Metrocard and then I think he tried to use the same card to get himself through. Can't do that. That's why the turnstile didn't turn.

[–] PopperTheKungFu-Dragon 8 years ago

Yeah, but is that such a huge crime that they actually have police waiting around to catch people trying to jump over the turnstile?

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

[–] jeanpaul984 16 years ago

Ninja GaiDanel:

I usually don't take the time to post anything on Imdb. However, your comment forced me to do so. First off, as sorry as you are for your anti liberal comments, what you point out still is still very offensive and careless. Sure, you don't have to care about Tarek's deportation. In fact no one has to care about anything. But unfortunately you have no clue what is it like to try to make it in this country as an alien immigrant. Clearly, somebody on your bloodline must have come to this place with the same hopes and dreams of becoming someone. You are someone because they did the job of putting themselves in a boat so you could compose a beautifully written complain about the film. Paradoxically held against your argument, USA is a country of immigrants. The social and cultural fabric of the USA is made up of people escaping their difficult circumstances at homes whether you like it or not.

I am a United States resident, originally from Colombia. I posses a green card and this issue touched me deeply. The way immigrants are treated in this country is unfair. They are not criminals and the way that Terek was treated was just incorrect and degrading. Also the fellow white American was treated in a unfair manner. I accept that this is the way this country works, but you cannot blame a film that tries to reconnect the spiritual loss of the white middle high class person with immigrants who are trying to bring joy and music to their lives. Because of these immigrants the white folk's life was made better. He was able to fall in love again and become alive.

This film is one of the most accurate depictions of the immigrant life and the lives they touch. The generosity and kindness of those who come here everyday to try to forge a new life.

I love this country, in fact I believe it to be one of the most beautiful countries in the world. But through continuous ignorant statements such this, the majority of citizens of USA will continue to misunderstand and forget the beauty and eloquence of this nation. One nation worth of Terek and his girlfriend, not really a nation where I would like to encounter people such yourself.

With all due respect,

jeanpaul984

[–] Ninja_GaiDaniel 16 years ago

jeanpaul984:

Well, I am delighted that you think anything I've written is beautiful, even if it (apparently) irritates you to some degree, or that it would prompt a non-poster such as yourself to make an exception. =) Sadly, I don't think the heart of my position really came across in this one post of mine. Below I copy/pasted a response from another thread that I hope might clarify some of my views:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0857191/board/nest/108244709

Sure, I can sympathize, even though my posts can make it looks like I'm soulless and uncaring.

But these are fictitious characters (I'm not being condescending, I'm making a point =). As such, it is the job of the writer, director, actor, to pull me in and make me forget I'm watching a movie and to care about them despite the fact they and their situations aren't real. Personally, while I think this movie had fine actors, they in the end failed to make me care much about their situation. I could go on about why, but in they end it just didn't do it for me.

As for looking at the situation as if it WERE real for the sake of a political discussion on immigration, like I said I would sympathize with someone in such a predicament. These are human beings, after all. But if you want to analyze the policies regarding who we allow to stay and who we kick out, we simply cannot as a government allow every illegal sob story to stick around. I know it sounds cold, but it's not; it's an unfortunate truth of practicality. Are we supposed to change our policies to "If you have a story so sad that it makes the Resident Chief of Deportation cry like a baby, then you can stay because we pity you so much"? Is THAT the new solution? Of course it's not, any reasonable person knows we can't base policy on arbitrary emotion. We have to apply a policy that works and is practical and resembles fair to all involved. And no matter WHAT policy you implement, there are ALWAYS going to be sob stories that do not fit into whatever criteria you utilize. That's not being cold, it's accepting a fact of politics.

And honestly, they might have manged to get one extra micron of sympathy from me if Tarek's mother didn't claim that the United States and her deportation policies were just like Syria. How this didn't piss off more people, I don't fully understand.

Additionally, I genuinely do dislike using words like 'liberal' or 'conservatist' because saying things like that almost always implies that you are one or the other and have a dislike for the 'opposing' side. For the record, I am neither, finding comfort somewhere down the center.

I may have misunderstood your point on previous generations of immigrants (mine included), but my general position on this is "So what?" This statement can be easily confused for apathy, because it is apathy. I have never been one of these folk to try to define themselves by what their great-great-great-grand-daddys did. I think it's fine to learn about one's heritage, and if you're ancestors beat on drums or played with Viking swords and you get interested in that stuff, then that's just Jim-Dandy. But I am not my forefathers, and I'm really not worried about what they did and what troubles they had; they does not define me. If this is not exactly what you meant, I am open to clarification.

As for The Visitor being an extremely accurate depiction of immigrant life.... well...... yes and no. I'm sure this is some general refection of something off-handedly similar to an idealized interpretation of any number of accounts. But let's keep in mind this film was made by people, people with certain viewpoints and standings, and they made a movie that reflected those opinions. Someone else could make a movie about good hardworking Americans not being about to find construction work in California of Texas because of illegal labor. That movie could also be an extremely accurate depiction of immigrant life, but just from a different angle. And that's one thing I didn't like about this movie: It's clear slant.
*I would like to specify that I don't think a movie about illegals stealing jobs would be fair or accurate, and those do not reflect my opinions. But nor does The Visitor.

The fact that you felt so strongly about my first post makes me very interested and eager to hear back from you regarding this one. I know I'm long-winded, but you're obviously a smart fellow and I'd enjoy a rebuttal. =)

Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of even ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!

[–] atmvawser 15 years ago

You are eloquent and you try to be fair, but you stand firm and you back up your position in a non-hysterical and non-hateful way

That's more than most can manage on the internet, sadly

(A few grammar problems- but hey, I'm a pedant with an English degree, a dangerous combination!)

You know, I was going to say that "surely this movie succeeds undeniably as an emotional experience, whether or not you agree with it intellectually", but then it hit me that the two aspects are almost unavoidably tied together; your intellectual response will most likely be tied into your political stance, and your emotions will be affected in a way that you either agree with and think is fair and correct, or not...so there's THAT theory out the window!

Anyway, thank you for posting, and providing an intelligent counter-point to my opinion on this most worthy of films about a most controversial subject; I think it's a good sign when a film like this, about an issue which is always going to divide us, gets intelligent conversation going (and sad when it gets blindly ignorant abuse, of course...)

and I'm glad that it turned out you had more to say than just one word...

"In your eyes, the light, the heat; in your eyes, I am complete"- Peter Gabriel

[–] Ninja_GaiDaniel 15 years ago

I'm a pedant with an English degree, a dangerous combination!
You.... ba$tard! ;)

Your paragraph about the inescapably of intellectual opinion and emotion attachment is well-put and spot-on. I'm glad you replied to what you may have figured was an old and forgotten post, and it's always a pleasure to read a thoughtful piece such as yours.

"Theres no way I'm gonna let you rob this nations children of ONE glass of wholesome nutritious milk!"

[–] powderuk 15 years ago

I'm sitting in my bedroom here in the UK just having watched this with my Colombian wife. We both thoroughly enjoyed the film, not becuase of we are liberal or conservative, left or right - it was just an excellent film. The story could be based on what millions have endured,whether it be trying to settle in the US, UK, Oz, Canada...you name it. I fully support a nations right to determine who should and should not be allowed to settle on their land. That aside, many who are rejected are good and honest people. This film touches on many things and if you've ever been on the receiving end of immigration control, this film really does touch many chords. BTW, having visted the States many times and having experienced the manner in which my Colombian wife has been treated, I'd say this film is not far off the mark in it's portrayal of US immigration personnel.

[–] mypcforums 15 years ago

One thing has been blatantly ignored in all of these posts. Tarek, Zainab and Mouna were all ILLEGAL aliens. They broke the law by staying in the US without a green card. If a US citizen had been driving a car without a driver's license, the person would be arrested and would have to pay the consequences for breaking the law. In the movie, Tarek didn't get a green card. He knew that he was an illegal alien but made no attempt to get a green card. The law is not there for some but for all. If illegal aliens are allowed to break the law while US citizens are not, we'd have mahem. It's bad enough that so many legal aliens are allowed into the US, taking jobs away from US citizens because they're willing to work for much less than US citizens, never mind illegal aliens. Also, spending tax dollars to have a trial for an illegal alien would make me very angry since I, and most people, work about 5 months out of a year to pay taxes. I'm not willing to have my pay taxed even more.

I would also like to speak out on one other point but it doesn't have to do with only what was shown in this movie. Over and over, I have seen the horrible manner in which "people of the law" speak to people, US citizens included. If they tell you to shut up, you had better shut up, and their language gets much cruder. The officer speaking to Walter in the subway while Tarek was being arrested is one example and the officer at the UCC telling Walter to step away from the window is another example. Walter, in both instances, was not an imposing figure but reserved, and could not have been seen as a threat in any way, yet was spoken to dishonorably.

[–] InsertWittyFilmReference 15 years ago

Just because one can't offer a practical alternative along with their criticism does not mean that criticism has no value. One could even accept our current procedural approach to illegal immigrants while still criticizing it for its lack of humanism.