When the professor gives his little speech in the IC about how Tarek did nothing wrong you had to wonder how many years of college it took before
you understand what the "illegal" part of illegal immigrant means. Nicely filmed, good acting but trying to put a human face on criminals who defy our borders and our laws is a waste of good filmmaking.
"trying to put a human face on criminals who defy our borders and our laws is a waste of good filmmaking"
is that a joke? did you think when you wrote that? putting a "human face" on anyone who is human and faces dehumanization is never a waste.
there's no place you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
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i LOVED the film, but i dont agree that tarek was a saint... he broke the law, and as much as i liked him as a charecter, he BROKE OUR LAWS..
it doesnt matter if he was self employed...HE BROKE OUR LAWS
you can put a human face on him... great... i am all for it... but at the same time you need to understand that HE BROKE OUR LAWS.
WHAT PART OF THAT DONT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND??????
if they have no respect for our laws trying to get in, do you think its any stretch of the imagination that he would break other, possibly more serious laws, whenever "desperation" comes calling again??
you people are so dense.. what are you all 12 years old??????
if I ever find an illegal, i will personally make sure they are deported... i urge all TRUE americans to do the same... We need to get tough people.. its our nations future we are talking about here....
Barack Obama: An Affirmative Action "success" story.
So other than "HE BROKE OUR LAWS," what did he do wrong?
shareif they have no respect for our laws trying to get in, do you think its any stretch of the imagination that he would break other, possibly more serious laws, whenever "desperation" comes calling again??
and that's how you show everybody you're an uneducated white trash who thinks he is someone because he is a "Citizen", who voted for Bush and who watches Fox News all days. PEople like u and Bush are the reason the world hates the US. People like Obama are the reason people love the US. Simple as that.
If u study a little bit you'll realize laws are made by humans, not by God.
Since when did the man-made borders that define our citizenship somehow make some people more deserving of basic human rights than others?
The source of most problems in this world is there are too many uneducated people. Since they are uneducated, they are manipulated by ruthless people, whether it's Fox News and the Bush administration who manipulated u using fear, or the Taliban organization enrolling uneducated children and promising them paradise if they kill people.
It's the same, uneducated people are so easy to manipulate.
Very well put Princess Zadig. I was about to say the exact same thing.
Anyway, wasn't it a matter of him moving and not getting the document he needed in the mail? I thought that was the only problem and was shocked when he was deported.
Actually the document did arrive, but his mother threw it away without telling him.
Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Criedshare
Agreed...
more than %50 of the american citizens are uneducated...
US population is around 200 Million... and only %3 is able to show you Where exactly Afghanistan is ON THE WORLD Map...
The same americans who are shouting the racism parodies here... Were coming to England to get medical services FREE before new laws... WHY because you have to pay to get medical care in the USA... This was not breaking the LAWS?
Besides... There is no such a race called "American" it is mixed race... And yes It is totally a mixed race...
German English and so on... Therefore many of you here who are talking about racism possibly have German or British or either any other country's descent...
Chill out MAN!!!!!!
this movie is just a great piece of ART... Good acting... Very touchy screenplay... What else I can say... Almost a no budget movie...
I really liked it... 9 out of 10... Keep the good work Thomas Mccarthy!
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Even if I dissaprove what you think! I will defend your right to say it!
You're Quite obviously an idiot. Did he break OUR laws? What are these laws on MINE again? This country was built top to bottom by the hands of immigrant workers. Our constitution was written by immigrants, WE ARE OUR YOU ME I are citizenz of an immigrant country.
America is a hypocrit, and this movie is right, it isn't really fair. People from other countries should be welcomed with open arms regardless of how fast they throw a baseball. Everyone should be given a fair chance to become an American citizen. It's what made America the great country it once was.
and your nation has turned to $HIT
and you, 'practical', are full of...yes, $HIT
"In your eyes, the light, the heat; in your eyes, I am complete"- Peter Gabriel
I think the point of the statement "He did nothing wrong!" was exactly piercing through the formal shield of the law. Tarek being an "illegal" immigrant did not mean he was doing anything harmful or "wrong" to anyone...
It was kind of a criticism to the law itself...cessante ratione legis, cessat et ipsa lex.
ATMVAWSER
"and your nation has turned to $HIT"
Perhaps you can explain why so many people are trying to enter this $HIT country as you called it. I guess your country is wide open and allows all who wish entry a free pass. Is that correct? Because if so please tell all those people in dire situations all over the world that your country is willing to take them.
I enjoyed the movie however it reminds me of the opening lines in an old TV show The Naked City. "There Are a Million Stories In the Naked City. This Is Just One of Them". If you wish to rely on emotions - there are people who are in more dreadful situations than this character who would love to emigrate. Their story just didn't get told.
The USA has many things they can be proud of
I was overreacting in rage at the time due to a string of what I felt were awfully ignorant posts; I guess I ended up contributing to the ignorance, though...
"In your eyes, the light, the heat; in your eyes, I am complete"- Peter Gabriel
What you don't understand is that the point of the film is that we need to reevaluate those laws and the systemic extension of them. Much good art challenges the status quo. Would you be saying the same thing if a black man married a white woman when that used to be illegal in numerous states? Would you be saying that if you lived in germany and found a jew who wouldn;t move into the ghetto? Laws that do not make sense to some can and should be challenged by those people in an attempt to change them. Civil disobedience is a valid form of protest and art.
shareWhat in God's name are you??
Your racism and right wing political fanaticism is painfully apparent in your comment.
I have a few questions for you: Have you ever jay-walked? If so, then you BROKE OUR LAW!!!
Ever smoked a joint? If so, then you BROKE OUR LAW!!!!
Prior to a few decades ago if you had sex outside of marriage or slept with someone of the same sex or another race, then you BROKE OUR LAW!!!!
Ever strolled down the aisle of a grocery store and popped an unpaid-for grape in your mouth? Then you BROKE OUR LAW!!!
Face it; It's a lot easier for people like you to fall into lock-step with the ever increasing police-state mentality that is overtaking this country than to actually THINK! People are people regardless of where we come from. Borders are man-made and no one on this planet OWNS ANYTHING. Period.
Oh, and as for 12 year old mentality? Only a 12 year old would be so naive as to think he or she could "personally make sure" an illegal immigrant gets deported. You are precisely the type of easily brainwashed fodder that big brother is counting on. Snap out of it, dittohead!!
And putting people into prison and denying them the right to defend themselves is also breaking the law. We still have the same due process in our legal system.
And by the way, despite what Sarah Palin thinks, we're all TRUE Americans. Even when we disagree. You should read what it says at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty before you start spouting off such nonsense.
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It's obvious the OP was just posting this for attention.
shareThis was a beautiful film with an Oscar worthy performance by Richard Jenkins, but at the heart of the OP's statement is the fact that indeed Tarek WAS an illegal alien. So, yes, he was doing something against the law. In the same vein, however, if you drive your car faster than the speed limit, you too are doing something against the law. So, it really is about to what degree you perceive the illegality. I stopped getting so worked up about illegal aliens when I heard on TV that being in the USA illegally is not a felony offense. I then realized that I didn't hate the illegal (Mexican) taking my hamburger order in the driveup window at Wendy's. He was just trying to make a living in his minimum wage job. I don't know what the solution is to the illegal alien problem, but in my mind not most illegals are not monsters who should be thrown out of the US.
shareWhen Walter goes home and tells Zainab that Tarek has been arrested, he tells her, "he didn't do anything wrong". Meaning, he didn't actually jump the turnstile without paying, as the cops originally thought.
I believe that line is there to set up the outburst scene at the detention center where Walter uses the exact same line. From Walter's perspective, Tarek DIDN'T do anything wrong. Yes, he was here illegally, so his outburst is factually off-base. But the OP is ridiculous for chiding the film for putting a human face on these people.
You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi
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Even so it doesn't mean they shouldn't be given any information about how long they are going to stay in prison. Some stay even years. Even major criminals on death row know how long they have left. Not knowing is torture in itself and not worthy of a country calling itself free.
It's obvious the OP was just posting this for attention.
No, I was pointing out the obvious idiocy of the movie's concept. It doesn't matter if he was a nice guy, or he could teach a bored professor how to play a drum, or he wasn't afforded the opportunities in his own country. He broke our laws. If I break into your house and, while I'm there I fix your leaky faucet that doesn't take away from the fact that I broke into your house. Get it?
Every country has laws to control their immigration and every country has the right to enforce those laws. There is also an orderly process for immigrating here and we shouldn't make people wait years doing the right thing while the line jumpers get rewarded with sympathetic movies and platitudes from blabbering psuedo-intellectual fools who think we are all humans and should wander wherever we please.
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kpassa:"fools who think we are all humans and should wander wherever we please."
WOW,
I didn't believe there are people with this kind of thinking...
Oh well I guess you wont get it until you will be "forced" to imigrate (if that's going to happen) and realize that we need to have the opportunity to be humans and wander wherever we please.
but the thing, kpassa, is that with the quotas and restrictions as they are now (especially post-911) the legal process would still be ridiculously difficult & protracted even if illegal immigration stopped today (i.e. the legal line wouldn't move any faster if there were fewer to no illegals). the concept of "line jumping" doesn't really make much sense in this context.
If the fact that he is illegal and came into this country without going through the process of being legal first and foremost bothers you so much, did you forget that he is deported anyway? Tarek is gone and his mother goes to him. Walter is upset that he can't make more of a difference because he connected to Tarek but this is hardly a liberal movie at all. Tarek is gone regardless.
Films are not reality. Reality is not film. Film is only an approximation of reality.
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm. jpg
shareOk, you simpletons, the word "Illegal" and "Wrong" are not synonyms. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it is wrong. And just because something is wrong, doesn't mean it is illegal.
I would write more but it wouldn't be worth my time...
I second the "facepalm."
i third that facepalm..
shareI fourth that.
For some people, "their law" means more than "humanity". But their eight years are gone, their man is gone, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee!
-Goodnight, mother of six!
-Goodnight, father of two!
If it's already been said, I apologize. but Tariq DID NOT do anything illegal or wrong. Here is why:
1) His family came to the US to attempt to flee Syria and gain political assylum in USA.
2) the assylum was not granted, and the US government sent the deportation letter to them via mail.
3) Tariq's mother got it, but threw it out and NEVER TOLD TARIQ
4) Tariq lived in the US without being aware his assylum was not granted. For all he knew, the appeal was still wandering through the court system.
Hell, he didn't even sneak onto the subway, he just missed the turnstile (I take the NYC subway everday, it happens).
Maybe his mother wilfully disregarded the law, but Tariq had no criminal intent or aforethought in what he did.
"and that's how you show everybody you're an uneducated white trash who thinks he is someone because he is a "Citizen","
How do you know he's white? That's racist.
By the way, Bush isn't in office anymore. So stop bitching.
^^^this
interesting blog article/anecdote on the immigration debate from both sides:
http://www.racialicious.com/2008/10/29/on-opposite-sides-of-the-immigration-debate/
the comments are pretty insightful too
There's a big difference between doing something illegal and doing something wrong.
shareThere's a big difference between doing something illegal and doing something wrong.
I just want to ask since I saw this film quite a while ago and only once - what exactly was he claiming asylum from? I remember a scene with them taking about how beautiful Syria is and how they miss a lot of it. It was never explained what they were running from, because their life in the United States seemed to be one of poverty purely because of their alien status.
Also when he went to the lawyer, they clearly didn't respond to letters and requests to appear at court dates to complete the process of their immigration applications. They didn't enter the US illegally in the first place, but they stayed there without going through the process and thus became illegal.
They had an excellent grasp of English and were clearly intelligent people, so pleading ignorance isn't acceptable in my eyes.
Once again, I only saw the film once when it came out so if I'm wrong about any scenes let me know.
I don't even know why they wanted to be in the USA. Any Western European nation is far far easier to stay in and afford the same liberties as the United States. My brother is an immigration officer (we're from the UK) and deals with these things every day. I deal with making sure applicants at my work have he right to work in the country and some people have had immigration applications pending for sometimes up to 10-15 years, but most of them have followed up on their appointments with the Border Agency and thus still have the right to live and work.
I agree. Good flick, but they were illegal.
shareYeah, I definitely think the "he didn't do anything wrong" line was in reference to the fact that Tarek didn't actually jump the turnstile. Had the entire subway scene not been misunderstood, Tarek could have continued living absolutely normally, playing his music and being with Zainab. He wouldn't have gotten caught for anything else for perhaps awhile, if it wasn't for the subway incident.
Therefore when Walter has his little outburst at the Detention facility, I think him saying "he didn't do anything wrong" was his anger at the fact that from this tiny little subway incident in which Tarek really didn't do anything wrong, it spiraled into a complete disaster, causing him to be deported. I don't think he was condoning illegal immigration, but when he found out more about Tarek, that he was just a young guy wanting to play his music and live in a free country, he understood that that is not such a crime. And if it weren't for that small misunderstanding (in which he didn't do anything wrong), he would have been safe. Kind of hard to explain, but that's the way I see it. I don't think Walter was pro illegal immigration when delivering that line. I think he was just upset at the chain events that emerged from something so ridiculous. That the law tends to go after innocent kids rather than being out there catching the real criminals.
And by 'innocent kids' I mean any young person taking public transport. I'm not sure how it works in the US, but here in Canada (or at least in my province), you need to have a student ID in order to get a monthly pass at the student rate. My friend once had her monthly pass, but her student ID had expired one day ago and she was on her way to get a new one. Lo and behold, the police decided to check IDs that day. They saw my friend's expired student card and no matter how much she tried to assure them that she was in the process of getting a new one but just didn't have the time to get one just yet, they cut up her ID and fined her $100. Therefore, I think Walter was mostly angry not at the detention centre so much, but at what happened in the first place, to land Tarek there. I think he was fed up with the injustice of the law in arresting young people for nonsensical reasons - because out of that something small, came a huge consequence.
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