MovieChat Forums > The Visitor (2008) Discussion > The Preachiness Is Too Much For Me

The Preachiness Is Too Much For Me

posted 10 years ago by kingofafrica
12 replies | jump to latest

Let me start this post by stating that as far as morality goes, there is no black and white, only different shades of gray. And in case someone wants to throw out some outlandish hypothetical scenario, ("What if someone burns down your house, murders your entire family, and then cuts your arm off and leaves you in the desert to die FOR NO REASON!!!"), I'll elaborate one step further. There is no moral issue worth making a movie about that is completely black and white.

The reason that these issues are not completely black and white is that we all see ourselves as the heroes of our own story. Even the most diabolical villains have reasoning to back up their ideas, and in their minds, the pros of their actions outweigh the cons.

Now let's extend this idea to The Visitor, where the good guys want immigration reform and the bad guys want to keep immigration laws constant. First of all, immigration is objectively a very split issue in this country, with many intriguing arguments both for and against reform. But if your only knowledge on the subject was this movie, is that the idea you would get?

From about the 30 minute mark of the movie, (Tarek's arrest), the audience is barraged with scene after scene of immigrants being abused, deported, and completely dehumanized without a single line of dialogue even attempting to defend the actions of the immigration officers. There isn't a character on the "bad guy" side of the argument who is given more than a handful of lines of dialogue, and those lines are mostly limited to something to the effect of "Please step away from the window, Sir."

It might not have been so bad if you got the sense that the immigration officers were at least fairly decent people outside of their jobs, but Tom McCarthy can't even grace us with that. The absolute worst part of this movie for me was when the waiter at the cafe by the holding cell makes an offhand comment about how the immigration officers don't tip. It's such a cheap shot, completely unnecessary and has nothing to do with the message of the movie.

You don't gain respect for a boxer by watching him hit a punching bag for a few minutes. You gain respect for him when you see him go toe to toe with a formidable opponent and knock him out in the tenth round. The villains of The Visitor fall way too far on the punching bag side of this analogy, and the movie really suffers as a result.

[–] dept_of_cuteness 10 years ago

Well said.

[–] jellyree 10 years ago

Your thread title was curious since you wanted to drone on for 6 paragraphs.
Sadly I'll never know what you typed nor will I ever see another of your posts.

[–] kingofafrica 10 years ago

Sorry if I struck a nerve. Just stating an opinion. I'm happy to discuss if you change your mind about me. :)

Nice zinger, too. I never really saw the irony of my admittedly long winded post.

[–] SpiltPersonality 10 years ago

Hmm, my memory of this movie was twofold.

Firstly, the beauty of the drumming and the friendship creation; and,
Secondly the tradgedy of Tarek's immigration story.

I think you make a good point about the second part. It may be, however that immigration officers are reasonably accurately portrayed. It seems to me that MANY (not all) law enforcement officers have a poor ability to hold onto their humanity. Many seem to put up a fascade so that they don't have to inwardly deal with what is an unpleasant situation.

However, that said, I think it important to have viewpoints like yours at least addressed to balance the story.

[–] kingofafrica 10 years ago

The drumming scenes and blossoming friendships were very well done. I think the thing that made me most upset about Tarek's arrest so early in the movie is that we wouldn't get to see a couple more scenes of him and Richard palling around in New York, haha.

No arguments on the officers' portrayals, either. Working as one of those immigration officers would be an incredibly tough job. To have to deal with matters of deportation firsthand on a day to day basis would be emotionally draining, to say the least. Involving yourself in the lives of your deportees would make work almost unbearable, given what they're going through.

I think the addition of a short scene that addresses the feelings we just discussed would have improved the movie. When Richard is berating the officer at the holding center, for example, the officer could say that he is really sorry about Tarek's situation, but there's nothing he can do, and he's doing his best to uphold the laws of our country. It would give the character some much needed depth, and advance the major plot point past "The people holding Tarek are evil," to "Immigration law needs reform." It doesn't even change the message of the film, it just personifies the "villains" a bit and takes the edge off.

[–] bricksnmortar82 10 years ago

Spoken like a person who's never had a negative experience with police before...

Let alone get forcibly taken to a small, uncomfortable place, against the last few ounces of what remains of your will...Let alone wonder if your stay in your new cold filthy confines will last a mere hour, or two, or ten, or days to weeks to more, if possible. And as you come to the realization of how truly powerless you are in this world, the sinister notion quickly creeps up into your head that your entire life as you'd known it when you woke up that morning might be gone forever - that all the people, places, and things you knew and loved might just as well have all been fantasy like those wonderful dreams that quickly fade from further from memory almost immediately after that awful realization hits that you've awoke.

Imagine not being sure if who and what you were and had in your life will be taken forever. I guarantee you it's such a terrifying prospect to face that you'd never act like such a condescending prick towards anyone who isn't a true criminal (ie, one who hurts others habitually) getting jammed up like that ever again. Especially if, as happened to yours truly, you were actually truly innocent of what the state says you did. MOST especially if you've found yourself, as I did, locked away all because one of those law-enforcement officers you're so quick to defend decided, he hadn't outgrown being the playground bully and that to ruin someone's life is just fine should he bump into someone who rubs him the wrong way when he's in that sort of mood.

These are such soul-crushing events. And they happen to people every single day. When you become a victim of an actual crimes at the very hands of those who are supposedly paid to stop them, and then end up in detention to top it off - your bleeding-heart sympathy for cops being the only people who have to work a 'tough job' will quickly evaporate.

And hopefully you'll understand why scenarios such as those depicted in this film are much more accurate and true-to-life than you know.

[–] kingofafrica 9 years ago

Oh come on, give me more credit than that. My comments speak nothing to my opinion of real world deportation policy, (which I'm sure is beyond terrifying for anyone involved), they speak to the effectiveness of the movie in portraying it's message.

To me, a movie is most effective when you can understand all character's points of view, including the villains. This movie does not do a good job of that. There are several movies with similar messages, (Fruitvale Station is the first that comes to mind), that do a better job of allowing me to put myself in the villains' shoes.

I assure you, I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else who has gone through an experience similar to Tarek in real life. I'm sorry if you took my posts that way. I agree with the movie's message, just not it's execution.

[–] davidhowe6328 8 years ago

Minor characters do not need depth. The film is not about that person's experiences.

Well, hip-hip hooray for your cheap climax!

[–] clearthinkernow 8 years ago

As morality goes, it's all black and white. Follow the law (whether government or Bible). Everyone wants there to be an exception for their reason for breaking the law and it just can't be that way. It's either for everyone or it's for no one. For example, no one wants drunk people driving cars. We've all had some knowledge of a death or permanent injury caused by drunk drivers. On the other hand, people keep getting in their cars after they've become affected by alcohol because the truth is we don't want other drunks to drive, just us. And that's what happens when you pretend it's gray instead of black and white. Do not break the law for the health and safety of everyone; it is quite black and white.

[–] clearthinkernow 8 years ago

Now I'd like to address the subject of your post: "preachiness". I did not find this movie to be preachy at all. I started out believing that all immigration must be legal and those who break the law must suffer the consequences. I left the movie with the same opinion. Yes, I loved the friendship established between Walter and Tarek and even with Walter and Tarek's mother; however, they did break the law and now must pay the price. Without consequences, others will continue to break the law. Our parents taught us from young children that our actions and choices bring on consequences. We would have been wild without that life lesson and so it is with immigration also.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] davidhowe6328 8 years ago

This film is far from preachy. It is deeply sympathetic to the immigrants. It is also, conversely, NOT hostile to the authorities. The film is about the emotional consequences of this situation to those most profoundly affected by it. This film is not about the experiences of the authorities.

Well, hip-hip hooray for your cheap climax!