After watching the movie, I got curious and started reading more about the book and the different adaptions of the book on the internet. I discovered that some believed Fanny and Edmund weren't really in love, but only married because it seemed as the right thing to do. I haven't read the book so don't know what to belief- can someone help me, did Edmund love Fanny?
shareI believe he did love her and that Mary was nothing more than an infatuation.
But do yourself a favor and read the book. It's not as laugh-out-loud funny as some of Austen's other books, but it's worth reading.
I really think he loved her. They had grown up together and knew each others ways and likes and dislikes. Fanny really was the one they called when they wanted something. She was the best girl alive as Tom had said
Honestly, while I think Fanny was really, truly in love with Edmund, I'm not *entirely* sure about Edmund. It isn't all that difficult to believe that, once he got over Mary, he could easily fall in love with Fanny, since Fanny has essentially been molded by his opinions and beliefs into what would be, for him, the perfect woman (I haven't seen the movie so I don't know how their relationship is portrayed there, but in the book, Edmund is the only person who really concerns himself with Fanny and thusly is all but worshipped by her); however, there are some...odd...indications that he really doesn't see her as more than a sister.
(NOTE: there are spoilers coming up here)
For example, when Maria has run off with Henry and Julia has eloped with Yates, Edmund goes to Fanny and when he first sees her, he embraces her and says: "My Fanny-my only siser-my only comfort now." Granted, this is before he is entirely over Mary, but some (including me) find it hard to believe that he could get over his brotherly feelings for Fanny and fall in love with her so quickly. Later on, after all the trouble has passed and everyone is left to readjust to their lives after all the drama that's happened, Edmund thinks about "whether it might not be a possible, an hopeful undertaking to persuade her that her warm and sisterly regard for him would be foundation enough for wedded love." While this is kind of vague, it seems to me that he's content with marrying her, even if the bond between them is strictly platonic, suggesting that as much as he loves her, he might not really be *in* love with her.
But really, this is just my opinion. I'm probably a little biased, since I've usually found Edmund to be too oblivious to be worthy of Fanny, and it's been pointed out to me that my opinion concerning the characters of this book are constantly wavering, so I'm probably not the most reliable source, either. However, this is how I (usually) see their relationship in the book. If you really want the answer, though, you should read it yourself. It's not exactly one of Austen's most exciting novels, but the characters are more realistic than in her other novels and though there isn't as much humor as in her other novels, her famous wit is still there.
And oh my God, I just realized this has metastasized into a book review. Holy crap. Anyways, I'll leave now, so good luck with that question. The entire fandom's been trying to figure it out for ages. ^_^
Okay, it's me again, here to correct a few things that have been pointed out to me. : p One of my freinds read my little review of the Edmund/Fanny relationship and has this to say about Edmund's little "sister/comfort" speech: he has just "lost" (at least in his eyes) both of his sisters; they really don't mean that much to him, but they're his sisters and so, in shock, he latches onto the closest female companion for whom he has platonic feelings. He doesn't see her as a sister and cannot see her as a lover (remember, Mary Crawford) and so she's a friend (albeit a very dear and sweet one), and when the role of sister is suddenly left gaping open, he projects it upon her, since she is the most comforting person he *has* right now and the comfort that he *wants* is his sisters back. Though this is the one part of the book I will always (happily) latch onto whenever I want to criticize Fanny and Edmund's relationship, I will (grudgingly) concede that this is possible, for the sake of those who are still undecided about Edmund's feelings regarding Fanny and haven't had the chance to read the book yet and decide for themselves.
My friend also asked me to voice her opinion on the "sisterly regard" situation as well (for the sake of being thorough, I suppose): *She* believes that Edmund has truly fallen for Fanny, but he still thinks that she only sees him as a brother/cousin; despite this, he hopes that maybe he can convince her that a platonic, nonsexual bond between the two would be enough to make them happy for the rest of their lives as a married couple, and doesn't care if she loves him or not, just as long as he can be with her and see her (relatively) happy for the rest of their lives.
I think this is rather selfish (afterall, what if she finds someone she's in love with *after* the wedding?), but it does seem possible since the text is rather vague as to the feelings behind the plan to persuade Fanny into marriage. Edmund also seems like the type who would value an emotional, friendly connection over a sweet, yet meaningless, romantic relationship (especially after what has happened with Mary), and would also have no problem marrying someone whom he is not in love with (though it would have to be someone for whom he did care about to *some* extent, since he's not the type who would whore himself out to the highest bidder); therefore, this really doesn't seem all that out of character for Edmund, even if it would be a little selfish of him.
All of that said, I have to say again that anyone who wants to properly interpret this relationship for themselves should read the book. Everyone sees the characters from Mansfield Park differently so it's impossible to really know what *you* would think until you've read the book yourself. While I started out reading Pride and Prejudice on my own and managed to struggle through with no help, a few of my friends say that it's very helpful to start out watching a few of the movie adaptions before or while you're reading the novel if you're not used to reading Jane Austen. None of us have seen any good adaptations of Mansfield Park and though we haven't seen this version, the people we know who *have* seen it have said that it doesn't really do the book justice, so I'd reccommend you start out with a different novel by Austen. The 2005 version of Pride and Prejudice with Kiera Knightley is really popular with my friends, so I'd reccommend that if you're new to Jane Austen.
And my friend has just informed my that I've written about four paragraphs now and I should shut up. I'll take her advice. ^_^
well, in all honesty, I don't believe he was ever in love with her. I think Fanny loved him because he paid attention to her. But I honestly thought that Edmond was a real jerk in the book. He kept trying to change Fanny and whenever she was upset he would talk her ear off until she was forced to agree with him. He never really let her speak her own mind or make up her own mind. I often felt that Edmond only wanted Fanny to be happy on his terms, as long as she did what he told her to or thought the way he said she should. The only time she didn't let her change her mind about something was when it came to Henry Crawford which was a shame because Crawford was the only one in the book who really cared what her real thoughts and opinions were.
shareI got this feeling too! Although Henry was a bit of a player i think he did truly love her but Fanny believed herself to be in love with Edmund so she crushed Henry.
Do you think Jane Austen meant the ending to be ironic? It was very different from her other books, perhaps she was a bit depressed when she wrote it because i dont think the ending was happy.
I was wondering what she meant of the ending as well. It just seems like she didn't put effort into it like the others, not even bothering to have more than a few sentences on how he came to want to marry Fanny. It's so entirely different from her other books and it upsets me. However, I like to believe he always loved her, but was too infatuated with Mary to ever realize her love for him and to fall in love with her. But in the other books there's no denying that the heroine and her certain male counterpart would absolutely get together, but in Mansfield Park if a little was changed, both Fanny and Edmund would have wound up with different spouses. It just seems odd.
shareEdmund had always loved Fanny since they were both children. He deeply respected her and felt like it was his duty to look after her, because no one else would.
Later on, he decided to marry her, after understanding in himself that his life long affection for her would eventually turn into something deeper. But I think at the time he decided to marry her, maybe his love for her hadn't quite turned into anything that was less than that general, semi platonic love that he had felt for her all his life.... but he knew it would come in time because he knew that him and Fanny had the foundation for a happy, 'real' marriage.
Does that make sense?
And in that darkness when I'm blind
with what I can't forget...
I think Edmund loved her, but wasn't in love with her despite what the ending in this may tell you. Fanny was truly in love with him though, all her life and had to suffer through his crush for Mary until he saw her true self.
As for Henry, his eye may have wandered but I think he really developed feelings for Fanny and when she rejected him, sought out Mariah (Maria) again to "get over it".
I haven't read the novel yet but this is what I interpreted so far.
"I promise you, before I die I'll surely come to your doorstep"
I think he did love her but it was a different more profound love than the lust he had for Mary Crawford. More spiritual.
shareI was surprised at how they represented Henry in this version. He was so totally self serving in the book and I really doubt that he would ever have settled down and remain faithful to Fanny. He was manipulative and played on her emotions to get what he wanted. There were several instances where he and his sister both willfully misled her and misrepresented what she thought.
He was not worthy of Fanny anyway. I really don't see her respecting a man who willfully sought after an engaged woman when taken into their home and friendship. After a while of competing for her he may have had some notions of actually going through with what he was saying, but it wouldn't have been too long before his eye began wandering again.
I'd like to say that there was genuine affection and love between Edmund and Fanny though I can offer no contextual proof. It has been a year or two since I've read it, but I feel like I'm remembering it correctly.
I still enjoyed the movie though. Wasn't really right in places and really rushed, but still interesting.
I posted this on the 99 board but thought I should repost it here after reading the latest comments
Well if you're just going off the movie, than sure you are going to want her to end up with Edmond. But the book is a different story.
In the book Edmond loved her only as a sister, he had no romantic affection for her until after there was no chance of him being with Mary, which in my opinion makes him worse than Crawford who did originally begin his attentions to Fanny after the Miss Bertrams left, but he credited it to her having become very pretty since they left. (added on) in all reality though, in the book Edmond sort of married her because she was there. I was left feeling like he had no hope of ever feeling anything more for her than he already did, but also didn't believe he'd ever care for anyone more so he might as well marry her.
Also it stated very clearly in the book that Henry did love Fanny, "rationally and passionately". He did end up loving Fanny for who she was. Edmond was constantly trying to change Fanny and make her opinion his, he was always persuading her to think as he did, which to me was very annoying.
Also there is the difference that Henry stated he wanted to make her happy (on her terms of course) and Edmond wanted to see her happy, on his. Or so it seemed to me. I would have prefered she ended up with Henry. Edmond was a total jerk in my opinion and I really didn't like him. (added on) One of my favorite scenes in the book, that for whatever reason didn't make it into the movie (really none of the scenes in the book made it into the movie, was when Henry was reading to Lady Bertrum. At the end of his reading she said that she thought he should have a theater in his house. And he said "No, there shall never be a theater in my house" the scene was being watched by Fanny and Edmond and Edmond's thoughts were being displayed throughout the whole scene, he took Crawford's meaning as "that lady will never allow a theater in our house"
(added) It also explains at the end that if it hadn't been for Crawford's vanity and the previous attentions he had received from Mariah as well as the coldness in which she received him again, he wouldn't have even been remotly interested in her. And in fact wasn't, he simply wanted back onto her good side, he didn't realize that she was in love with him and that she was going to drag him down. She was very pissed off when she found out he intended to marry Fanny and it was her satisfaction at the end that she was the one who put in end to it. Which just goes to show what a nasty piece of work she is.
By the time I finished the book (two weeks ago) I very firmly believe that Edmond had no romantic feelings for Fanny and his love for Mary was very much real.
I don't agree with Edmond's love for Mary being real. He was in love with who he thought she was rather than who she actually was.
I may be a hopeless romantic, but I always liked to believe that Edmond really was in love with Fanny at the time of their marriage. I think he saw in her all the traits he had imagined in Mary. He even says sometimes in the book that he wishes Mary would be more like Fanny.
One sugar-plum fairy... waiting on posting quota
he also says in the book that Mary is the only woman he wants to be his wife. As far as him wanting Mary to be more like Fanny, I think he meant that in the sense that he wanted her to be easily persuadable like Fanny. He talked Fanny into thinking his way all the time. Mary had her own thoughts and mind and her own feelings about things, and because it wasn't his thoughts and feelings he often blamed them on her other friends. I found that very hypocritical of him. I think you must be a hopeless romantic, because there is no hope that he was actually in love with anyone other than Mary Crawford. It was sad that they didn't end up together simply because of other's mistakes. I honestly don't believe he was just in love with the idea, he did love her. This story is by all means a tragedy. And it was meant to be that way. Mary Crawford was like Jane Austen herself, and like Jane Austen, she didn't end up with the man she wanted. Jane was more than likely sharing that sense of sorrow in this story.
share>>he also says in the book that Mary is the only woman he wants to be his wife.
But men often say things like that in the heat of the moment, later when they calm down and are more rational they change their minds. :)
Mary Crawford was like Jane Austen herself
there is no hope that he was actually in love with anyone other than Mary Crawford
I honestly don't believe he was just in love with the idea, he did love her.
He talked Fanny into thinking his way all the time.
he also says in the book that Mary is the only woman he wants to be his wife. As far as him wanting Mary to be more like Fanny, I think he meant that in the sense that he wanted her to be easily persuadable like Fanny
No, he means he wants her to be more virtuous. Less shallow. Less materialistic. Less attention-seeking. Not speak ill of her uncle.
Mary had her own thoughts and mind and her own feelings about things, and because it wasn't his thoughts and feelings he often blamed them on her other friends.
I disagree. I don't see Mary as a free thinker at all; she takes her cues from society. She parrots opinions rather than having any of her own. Her opinions come from what is fashionable for the times and from the general consensus among her social set.
"I speak what appears to me the general opinion; and where an opinion is general, it is usually correct. Though I have not seen much of the domestic lives of clergymen, it is seen by too many to leave any deficiency of information" (ch. 11).She admits to having little first hand knowledge of clergymen and states that her opinion is "right" because it is a general consensus (probably among people she sees as fashionable). share
Fanny Price easily persuadable? Sorry, have to respectfully disagree there. She may be quiet, but when it counts she has a backbone of steel and can't be talked out of what she thinks is right, not even when she's alone against the world.
Mary was never consistent in her feelings for Edmund, her feelings and behavoir to him changed constantly throughout the novel. She was too easily led by the thought of what her fashionable and shallow friends would say if she married a clergyman. Even Edmund couldn't ignore the change in her when she was with her London friends. And let's not forget that Mary was happily wishing poor Tom Bertram into his early grave so she could get a shot at being the next Lady Bertram, she was also happy to blame Fanny for the fact that her brother eloped with Maria. When Edmund said that Mary was the only woman he could think of as a wife he was suffering from a massive infatuation with a woman he didn't know until it was almost too late. To be blunt, like many male characters in Austen, he wasn't thinking with his brain. However, unlike characters like Mr Bennet, Mr Palmer and Mr Rushworth, Edmund had a very lucky escape IMO.
You pierce my soul. I am half agony, half hopeshare
In the book Edmond loved her only as a sister, he had no romantic affection for her until after there was no chance of him being with Mary, which in my opinion makes him worse than Crawford who did originally begin his attentions to Fanny after the Miss Bertrams left, but he credited it to her having become very pretty since they left. (added on) in all reality though, in the book Edmond sort of married her because she was there.
I disagree. Mansfield Park isn't primarily a love story (that's secondary), so Austen rushes through the lovers' "happy ending" rather than spend a lot of time gradually building up their love story. But that doesn't mean that Edmund doesn't really love Fanny. I've read the book more than five times (twice in 2007). IMO, Edmund loves Fanny.
As for Crawford, he only starts paying attention to Fanny because he knows she isn't interested in him, so he wants to "make a hole in her heart" (paraphrase). He's like a dog marking his territory. He's already marked both Julia and Maria, so now he tries for Fanny.
Recall what Mary says about all her friends who have been chasing Henry. He isn't interested in any of them. He's only interested in Fanny, imo, because she resists his smarmy charm.
It also explains at the end that if it hadn't been for Crawford's vanity and the previous attentions he had received from Mariah as well as the coldness in which she received him again, he wouldn't have even been remotly interested in her. And in fact wasn't, he simply wanted back onto her good side, he didn't realize that she was in love with him and that she was going to drag him down. She was very pissed off when she found out he intended to marry Fanny and it was her satisfaction at the end that she was the one who put in end to it.
But don't you think that's weak? The guy had no will power. I would never tolderate such behavior from a husband, a bf or a lover. And certainly, I would find these pathetic excuses the most flimsy attempts at jusitification!
Fanny was intelligent enough to recognize him for what he truly was (not what he was trying to be, or what he pretended to be). Can you really imagine Fanny having to endure the constant moritifications she would have been dealt as his wife? Henry flirting with Maria and Julia, Henry flirting with other women too. Fanny is not the type who could endure that. It would be excruciatingly painful to her to be subjected to such a lack of respect. IMO, Henry didn't deserve her and Fanny was very wise to resist him.
As for Edmund's feelings for Mary: She never was the woman he thought she was. It's as simple as that. The woman whom he was in love with simply did not exist.
I think Edmund does love Fanny, although in the beginning it wasn't a romantic kind of love, in the end he finally saw her in that light. In the 1999 version there's a scene where Mary Crawford teased Edmund saying that he must love Fanny and he replied, "of course I love her, but there are as many forms of love as there are moments in time." I LOVE that line! In the end just before they kissed, he said "I love you Fannie, as a man loves a woman, as a hero loves a heroine..." indicating the change of nature of his love for her. IHMO, his feelings for Mary might have been more of an infatuation, because of her class Mary is much more suitable to be his wife – and she does a great job of flattering him also – but I don't think he's ever really sure she's "the one." As he learned of Mary's true nature, he finally realized she was only "a creature of my imagination."
shareLet's go straight to the source, shall we?
Edmund had greatly the advantage of her in this respect. He had not to wait and wish with vacant affections for an object worthy to succeed her in them. Scarcely had he done regretting Mary Crawford, and observing to Fanny how impossible it was that he should ever meet with such another woman, before it began to strike him whether a very different kind of woman might not do just as well, or a great deal better: whether Fanny herself were not growing as dear, as important to him in all her smiles and all her ways, as Mary Crawford had ever been; and whether it might not be a possible, an hopeful undertaking to persuade her that her warm and sisterly regard for him would be foundation enough for wedded love.
I purposely abstain from dates on this occasion, that every one may be at liberty to fix their own, aware that the cure of unconquerable passions, and the transfer of unchanging attachments, must vary much as to time in different people. I only entreat everybody to believe that exactly at the time when it was quite natural that it should be so, and not a week earlier, Edmund did cease to care about Miss Crawford, and became as anxious to marry Fanny as Fanny herself could desire.
With such a regard for her, indeed, as his had long been, a regard founded on the most endearing claims of innocence and helplessness, and completed by every recommendation of growing worth, what could be more natural than the change? Loving, guiding, protecting her, as he had been doing ever since her being ten years old, her mind in so great a degree formed by his care, and her comfort depending on his kindness, an object to him of such close and peculiar interest, dearer by all his own importance with her than any one else at Mansfield, what was there now to add, but that he should learn to prefer soft light eyes to sparkling dark ones. And being always with her, and always talking confidentially, and his feelings exactly in that favourable state which a recent disappointment gives, those soft light eyes could not be very long in obtaining the pre-eminence.
Having once set out, and felt that he had done so on this road to happiness, there was nothing on the side of prudence to stop him or make his progress slow; no doubts of her deserving, no fears of opposition of taste, no need of drawing new hopes of happiness from dissimilarity of temper. Her mind, disposition, opinions, and habits wanted no half-concealment, no self-deception on the present, no reliance on future improvement. Even in the midst of his late infatuation, he had acknowledged Fanny’s mental superiority. What must be his sense of it now, therefore? She was of course only too good for him; but as nobody minds having what is too good for them, he was very steadily earnest in the pursuit of the blessing, and it was not possible that encouragement from her should be long wanting. Timid, anxious, doubting as she was, it was still impossible that such tenderness as hers should not, at times, hold out the strongest hope of success, though it remained for a later period to tell him the whole delightful and astonishing truth. His happiness in knowing himself to have been so long the beloved of such a heart, must have been great enough to warrant any strength of language in which he could clothe it to her or to himself; it must have been a delightful happiness. But there was happiness elsewhere which no description can reach. Let no one presume to give the feelings of a young woman on receiving the assurance of that affection of which she has scarcely allowed herself to entertain a hope.
It's long, I know, but I think it makes it pretty clear that Edmund did indeed love Fanny, just as much as he ever loved Mary, if not more so. Jane Austen calls it a "delightful happiness." I think that should set the record straight :)
Mildred! He's at it again. http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=8093247
But you must remember that Jane Austen was a satirist so a lot of what she writes is ironic.
Read what you posted keeping that in mind and the tone changes...its as if Austen is making fun of Edmund. But then again that is only my humble opinion.
I think he did fall in love with her but honestly I think they shouldn't have got married. Cause to me, the wedding seemed almost rushed so that Sir Thomas could at least say he had one good child or something or so Edmund could get over Mary. But maybe I'm being a little biased cause I really do not like Edmund, I mean I just think that he's too blind to see what is in front of him. I mean Mary repeatedly in the novel and the film showed signs of being a real bitch and he just laughed it off as if she was joking or something, it took his lvoestruck sister to elope with Henry to make her see what she truly was and that Fanny had always been right there for him. I know love makes you blind but does it also make you brain dead?
Everyday is a winding road, I get a little bit closer.
Forever Defying Gravity!
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