NAzi symbolism?


Do you think , there are many Inspired Nazi Hitlerian simbolism in this movie?

reply

It all started with the makers of the first film completely misunderstanding Heinlein. So from idea of truly earned citizenship and ass-kicking Good they created Hitler Youth 90210 in Space. But I think that in the 3rd movie they finally got to really play with this idea: pop-singing high commander, collectible merchandise on the totalitarian state network and all the fun they had with religion.

reply

It's no misunderstanding. He was attacked relentlessly over the political views in his book. They called it fascism, militarism, utopianism, and tried to have the book banned as they considered it dangerous. A glorified, pro-military recruiting poster. So these movies, while I like them, they're very entertaining. I like that Marauder really paid homage to the book. They're still a total satirical mockery of the book and they're taking shots at Heinlein.

As for the style of government. It basically says that citizenship is not earned. The author stated that it's not entirely military, most of it isn't. The state has to find a place for anyone who wants to become a citizen to try and serve. The military is one way, it's extremely brutal(90% washout or die rate). But, it's also stated that the MI are all combat troops. No military personnel in logistics. So military logistics, experimental medical testing are paths to citizenship. Point being that all the jobs which earn citizenship be dangerous. So that the person in effect lays down their life for the Federation. After they've taken responsibility for everyone as the expensive of themselves, they earn the right to exercise the ultimate responsibility. It's a noble idea, but it's as easily corruptable as anything else. Personally I don't think that's the source of the attacks. Right now we have electoral colleges that are the only people allowed to vote for president. It's slanted towards academics. The Terran Federation slants things atleast from what you'd understand by reading the book once, away from academics to the military. Big suprise that critics feel such a desire to tear that concept apart.

Which reguarding that last little snippet there always entertained me about such an idea for a government. People try to argue intellectually against it, but you can always just accuse them of being a selfish coward and shut down the opposition easily. Especially with the our huge appreciation for veterans these days.

reply

I think its a beautiful idea: what separates a citizen and a person simply living in a country using whatever privileges that gives you? Your ability to put yourself into a "thin green line" protecting your values and your beliefs.
I mean, look around: we live in the age where you have people with medieval mentality living in a democracy but sharing none of its values and claiming no loyalty to their new home. At the same time demanding recognition of their ways and abusing the system.

reply

I suppose if you're the type of person who believes that Darwinism in our society is sorely lacking and is responsible for many social issues. Then the politics of Starship Troopers it the best solution to such a problem. Enforcing survival of the fittest within the ruling class, while those who are unwilling to see if by nature, they deserve to exist carry on merrily without serious consequences to the state as a whole.

reply

Just be honest and admit Heinlein was pushing his version of fascism, Orwell or whatever.

reply

Many people were still in strong agreement with the Nazi party's values, even decades after World War II. Many people were totally against anything the Nazi's believed and did, for many decades after World War II, precisely because of what the Nazis did. So there are people who like Nazi symbolism, and people who satirise it. It could be either. Or, the director could be appealing to both neo-Nazis and anti-Nazis.

reply

Fascism in Italy (where it all started) grew out of the extreme right wing of the catholic church.

Nazi germany was a further refinement where belief in the german race and state (embodied by the fuhrer) was an absolute virtue replacing in some way supernaturalist belief.

The Federation in ST1 (movie) went even further as without service to the state you can't 1) vote 2) journalize 3) breed!

ST3 just brings them all together at the end with them brewing up a perfect storm of speciesist bigotry, fascist government and established religion.

The satire is laid on pretty thick, but I kind of liked it that way.

Roy 72.

reply

actually, going by the movie, you could breed without being a citizen, you just needed a licence (see the discussion in the shower scene). I'm fairly sure neither or Johnny's parents had served (or maybe his dad had and that's why he was so against the idea?)

reply

You are a bit unclear about fascism, fascism in Italy started during WW1 as a revolutionary, pro-war, anticapitalist, and moderately anticatholic movement. They were very similar to extreme left but were, on the contrary to them, 100% pro-war (communists were against as they considered it to be an "imperialists' war"). Then due to opportunism to grow and be more than a underground troublemaking party causing riots, they left away their revolutionary anticapitalist anti-elites program away when they did notice they could benefit from the fears caused by extreme left/communism troubles Italy faced back then to get support from the conservatives elites who were -logically- afraid of the communist threat within. They tried to play the card "we are the #1 wall against communism" to get support and get out of underground while carrying on their riots but with bigger funds and unofficial support. Same to nazism case, "elites" thought it would be easily maintained under control, history proved them to be wrong in both cases and themselves became some kind of "servants" to the totalitarianism regimes.

reply