MovieChat Forums > Sakebi (2007) Discussion > Why such a low rating?

Why such a low rating?


I was shocked to see this movie had such a low rating.

Or maybe I wasn't so shocked, after all. If, like many of the people who have posted their views here, you're looking for an American-style ghost story in which everything is explained and all the ends neatly tidied off, this isn't for you. If, for example, you preferred Hollywood's Pulse remake to Kurosawa's uniquely troubling original, you should definitely steer clear.

If, on the other hand, you're looking for something rich in atmosphere and metaphor, something that hits you in those parts where Hollywood films rarely reach, give this one a chance. Allow yourself to go with the flow and not demand easy explanations, and you'll be rewarded with one of the most haunting film experiences in years.

I never cease to be amazed at how Kurosawa manages to find new methods of introducing ghosts into the frame in ways that will give you the creeps. I'm a hardened horror fan who has seen it all (or nearly all) over the past half century, but several hours after watching this film I was still sufficiently spooked to want to sleep with the light on.

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It has something to do with imdb rating system. When a movie appears on imdb, looks like it starts with a low rating by default.

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I'm not intending to rain on your parade, but this movie lacked insight and wasn't catchy in the least. I for one don't like Hollywood cinema, but this movie isn't an example of how things should be done. Plot was lacking, acting was average (and I watch lots of Japanese movies, so it's not that I'm not used to the "foreign" feeling), but worse was the fact that no scene gave me an itch of thrill.

Of course, this is all my personal opinion. If you liked Sakebi, that's awesome, good for you. It didn't do the trick for me. No cookie for Kurosawa on this one :(

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Don't worry epremuz, you're not raining on my parade in the least, though I'm not sure what you mean by 'catchy', which is a word usually applied more to songs and tunes than to movies.

Have you seen Kurosawa's Pulse, say, or Cure? I would be interested in knowing what you thought of those, since there are certain themes running through all of Kurosawa's films, and if you didn't find those 'catchy' then it's probable you just don't like his work, full stop.

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i do know that this movie does not necessarily tie up and bit of lose ends, but it still bothers me with a few surface questions!

if the lady in the scarlet dress was haunting him, was it because he killed her years ago when he visited her after he saw her at the window, or another reason? if so, was the main motive due to him having to leave her and in the fit of argument and anger, he killed her, to the fact that she would say smth along the line of being alone, and being left behind? or was it true that she died waiting for someone, preferably him to come?

if indeed he did not come, why does she haunt him? is the reason because she saw him on the ferry as it went by the building? and if he did not come, why did the ghost of her say that she forgive only him when went to the building? maybe he really did not even went to see her before years back, as his visit in the film showed that he was unfamiliar to the place. but there is the possibility of him going amnesiac after his "murder"?

but it drives to another branch of questions that her bones remains looked as though she simply stood there till she died, but what was that supposed burnt marks (if there were indeed burnt marks) that stood like a shadow from her remains? and so, it leaves us with the last question regarding the red lady, why does she forgive him and loves him when you look at both branches, he did not affect her in any way romantic.

maybe she was a lunatic, with a deranged mind that she was crazy, if so, why does she want everyone dead, when she is protecting him? the red lady is a big mystery here, her story is very interesting. but other than this, we should also look at another major question mark point. the girlfriend, whom we all know is dead, that she died. was it in his hands that she really died? died in the same way as the other victims, when there is the possibility of the red lady possessing him to kill her as she has done so with the other suspects?

but if that was true, then why was there a scene of the other policeman who was on sedative at the quack, which explains/explores the bit on him seeing and helping out in an accident where he is now being haunted by his victim, whom happen to be the lead character's girlfriend? or am i thinking on the wrong route as there could be a chance that he is now being haunted by a ghost after he sees an accident?

and so why was she screaming without a voice to him, to tell him the way she died or simply because she was involved in an accident where she was screaming so loud? now that leaves the doctor, why was he so affected? it was as though he was in the know about a ghost who have the ability to do what it does? or was he also dreaming of the ghost? think about it, if i was dreaming of a pretty ghost in red, and i am a psychiatric who have patients who are dreaming of pretty ghost in red haunting them in dreams too, i would gladly discuss with him more on what the hell is going on!

i know it may sound funny, but when you consider these facts, im still so puzzled with it all. i do like watching things that help me explain, cos the thinking that i go through is so not worth it (like now where i probably have opened up some branches of more questions!)

but kudos to this movie for being able to make write a "review" so long! even the movie jacket didnt gardner such a response from me. so indeed it deserve more stars than what it got!

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Well, this movie tied up perfectly to me, I undertand what the director try to do, but I don´t like the results. The acting was terrible and I really enjoy the work of the actors in Kairo, but here they are just like reading from a paper, I just don´t see any feeling. The father that murders his son is the worst of all, and the detective is not much behind. The economy of takes is really stupid, the interrogation scene could be done beautifuly, but in that one shot that don´t give anything is so wasted...

I just dont know what was going in Kurosawa´s head when he was writing and directing this thing, Kairo is excelent but this one I honestly though it was like a bad student first film

If you want to see a different way to introduce a ghost, try with Let´s scare jessica to death, that is a great ghost story

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I was just about towatch this, but i'll skip it if you didn't like it. Got plenty of others to watch.
Top5 Films:Seven Samurai,A Chinese Ghost Story,Treasure of Sierra Madre, Throne of Blood,Goodfellas

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Dont guide only for my word... a lot of people like this piece of uter crap... Cant se why though...

"I think there is a difference between a work of art and an Oscar." Roger Corman

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I wouldn't usually base what i watch on one person's opinion. But i have a lot of stuff to watch, and this just doesn't sound worth it.
Top5 Films:Seven Samurai,A Chinese Ghost Story,Treasure of Sierra Madre, Throne of Blood,Goodfellas

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and this just doesn't sound worth it.

And is not.

"I think there is a difference between a work of art and an Oscar." Roger Corman

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The acting was very good but the plot is too convoluted for its own good. Don't get me wrong, I love thought-provoking films but something happens to me whenever I am watching a film directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa. His movies are too 'japanese', which is not a bad thing, but they tends to alienate all those who are not keen on japanese culture and their way of thinking.
Same happened when I watched Bright Future or when I saw Charisma and Doppelgänger. I am sure there is a social commentary beneath the surface of this ghost/crime thriller that japanese people get it but I don't know yet what exactly it is.
Well, I suppose most japanese people feels the same when they watch those Buñuel films filled with catholic references and imagery. Films that I understand perfectly because Buñuel is my compatriot, but for people with a different background, Buñuel films might be undecipherable as Kiyoshi Kurosawa's films usually are for me.

Sakebi is interesting from a technical point of view but as a ghost story it isn't particularly original and as a crime thriller it's not interesting enough. That's all I can say.




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Take a look at my profile and my list of favorite horror films. I love convulted twisted weird films, those are among my favorites. And I also love to death the japanese culture, I love movies from Ozu (You cant go any more japanese than that on films), Kurosawa (The good one), Miike, etc... but this movie was just badly done from pretty much every angle.

Y desde la técnica Sakebi falla, te lo dice un estudiante de cine....

"I think there is a difference between a work of art and an Oscar." Roger Corman

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I love Ozu and Miike but their movies have an universal appeal unlike most Kiyoshi Kurosawa films. I have never had any kind of problem trying to empathize with Ozu or Miike. but with Kiyoshi the story is different, as I've already expressed I feel alienated when watching his films. Like somebody who is invited to a party where nobody talks to him. That's it.

Desde el punto de vista técnico Sakebi está muy bien lograda, te lo dice un cinéfilo que ya veía cine de vanguardia probablemente antes de que hubieras nacido

Vi tu lista, es interesante, pero una lista que no incluya una sola obra de Buñuel y al mismo tiempo incluya El libro de piedra, en mi opinión no puede ser una lista seria
Es en tono de broma, pero en serio. ¿Ni una sola de Buñuel? jo!

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But I told this from the point of view of renoun film critic Gerardo Yoel, really, there is nothing more japanese than Ozu : P
For myself I have never felt alienated by Kiyoshi, Not even with Pulse and that was a much more weird film than Sakebi... Sakebi was very simple to me and easy to understood but its.... Se me acabo el ingles para seguir esta idea.... decía que la puesta fue lo que me desagrado de Sakebi, hay tantas escenas tan mal logradas, la primera que me viene en mente es el interrogatorio policial con el padre del muchacho. Esa escena fue dolorosa de observar.

Por cierto, es mi lista de pelis favoritas de terror, no considero ninguna de Buñuel terror... ni siquiera con la escena del ojo cortado en Un perro andaluz.

"I think there is a difference between a work of art and an Oscar." Roger Corman

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Ozu may be as japanese as sushi. I'm agree with that, but as "sushi" his movies have universal appeal, something that Kiyoshi's films lacks. Or are you going to tell me that Bright Future is a film easy to understand for people not keen on japanese culture? c'mon! I mean you "could" admire the craftmanship of that film but I highly doubt any westerner who haven't studied japanese culture could fully understand what Kiyoshi Kurosawa is trying to express in Bright Future and another movies directed by him (like Sakebi).


Así que lo dijo Gerardo Yoel, ¿pero eso es lo que piensas TU tambien? o siempre repites todo lo que lees y escuchas? El Ayatollah Blanco, García Riera, Rogert Ebert, etc. todos dicen(decian) ciertas cosas con las que yo no estoy de acuerdo en lo absoluto y nunca estaré. Piensa por ti mismo, amigo.

Por cierto no me fijé que tu lista era exclusivamente de peliculas de horror, ese es un "horror" mio. De todos modos hay varios titulos de terror que no estan en tu lista y que yo hubiese incluido. Pero de eso se trata supongo, cada quien tiene sus gustos propios.

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From Kiyoshi the only movies I have seen are Pulse and Sakebi and I didnt find them to be as Japanese as, let's say, works like Onibaba or Kaidan... I should take a look at Bright Future if you say is a more representative piece of his work.

Y si cito a alguien no es por haber sido adoctrinado por él, simplemente porque es una importante figura de la teoría cinematográfica con la que concuerdo en sus ideas, específicamente en este punto. He tenido largas charlas con Yoel en las que he disentido en varios puntos y debimos dejarlo en un "Agree to disagree"... pero en este aspecto especifico concuerdo con el gordo.

Por ultimo, si crees que algún titulo ha quedado fuera de mi lista te pido que me lo nombres, tal vez aun no he visto dicho film por lo que una recomendación seria muy bienvenida : )

"I think there is a difference between a work of art and an Oscar." Roger Corman

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When you see that it's a Kiyoshi Kurosawa film you should expect minimalistic surrealism with an underlying tone of symbolism and basically being an allegory about society. Kurosawa reminds me a bit of a mixture of Lynch, and Carpenter's more serious works.

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If you think this film got trashed, check out the average IMDb rating for Loft, another great film that is destined to be rejected by the masses.

Asian Film List
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur10058980/boards/profile/

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Its low because its pretty lame and pointless. I was bored out of mind. The "ghost" was funny at best and there wasnt a lick of tension whatsoever. The movie felt like it was 4 hours long. What the hell was the point? Ive watched and enjoyed other Japanese horror, but this was silly, boring, and without purpose.

The plot jumped all over the place... what was the point of the doctor killing his kid? You never see him again after the interrogation scene? What the heck was.... ahh, nevermind.

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Wow, do you lack the mental capacity to understand any of that or something? This film was a masterpiece except for the ending, in my opinion. You're probably the type who only love mainstream crap, where all of the answers are fed to you instantly.

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I just wanted to say, I'm not a mainstream film lover; my favorite films are by people as diverse Takeshi Kitano, Giuseppe Andrews, Alexandro Jodorowsky, etc......

This film is definitely no masterpiece.

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Why do you automatically assume that because some didn't like this film that they only like mainstream movies. I love the asian horror films especially Kairo but was bored out of my mind watching this film. I am glad you enjoyed this film but that doesn't mean everyone else who didn't only enjoys water-down american remakes.

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This is much more than a simple ghost story, smikey. You obviously didn't get it.
No wonder the rating's so low.

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there is a habit among avid movie goers to assume that because a casual viewer or fellow film lover does not like a movie, it is because they are (fill in the blank). Film isn't gospel. And if it was, I wouldn't watch it. Especially if the disciples chastised me for not enjoying its preachings.

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There are lots of great Asian horror films out there with complex plots and interesting symbolism -- Spider Forest, anyone? -- but this ain't one of them. It was a mess.

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If a large number of people didn't "get it", perhaps it is partially the creators fault and not just the viewer. I found the plot of the movie to be very strange as well. I only have a decent basis for understanding it's meaning (I think) because I watched Pulse previously and know the director likes to inject social symbolism stuff into his movies.

Here's my guess about the meaning (I just came up with it while watching the movie): The "old" part of town (society) is dying and being demolished for the modern town and the past is being erased and the people who suffered with it. The water is also rising (or the land sinking) along with the earthquakes. So the people drowning in seawater symbolizes the past and society sinking into oblivion and no one seems to appreciate it anymore or care. And it seems to be happening to the newer generations.

Or something like that. I know the detective was middle-aged when he killed the chick but his childhood of growing up in a more modern society with different values than the previous changed him to a less compassionate human being.

This post is very unrefined in it's structure as well, so....

Eat, my children, dance and eat!

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I've just watched this movie. Here's my take on it:

SPOILERS SPOILERS

Maybe back then Harue has done something to Yoshioka, making him angry and then drown her in saltwater. Like the old policeman said, it would be a form of "punishment" and with that in mind, there's no intention to kill. The case is otherwise for Yoshioka, accidentally killing her but leaving her remains behind so that she would always be at his house, alleviating the guilt that he has stored but *has chosen to forget* (as burchronicus said) as time passes on (represents by the development of the area)

However, the past always catches up. This is symbolizes in the conversation between Harue and Yoshioka about the new development plan has failed. A murder has happened, with evidence that all connects to him as the perpetrator (again, this is the Lady in Red's way of referring to the terrible thing he has done).

The Lady in Red is, out of all the people on the Bayside Ferry 15 years ago, noticed by Yoshioka. However, Yoshioka does not reach out to her, leaving her dying all alone. She then becomes a manifestation of guilt as Yoshioka (representing the outside world) has ignored her even when having detected her existence. More murders occurred, with the motive behind them originated from "isolation" (the Father Doctor --> cannot take care of his son fully / the Son --> does bad business with a senior, emotionally disconnects with his father; the workplace case --> the director splits with wife to follow the secretary / secretary --> emotionally isolates by the director as she is only a pawn for him to get what he wants). The same, IMO, can be linked somehow to Yoshioka and Harue.

The final line - further stresses my point above, for if a doctor, a director and even a nobody (in F18's case) could all isolate their emotions towards the one closest to them (link this point to the Bayside Ferry too - think distance in the literal way), then they all have the capability to kill one another. Cue in apocalyptic imagery, maybe even the random death of Yoshioka's assisting detective

As for the final image of Harue's screaming, it might represent how people want their voices to be heard, but by neglecting them (intentionally or not), they are invisible. Like the psychiatrist has said, it's all something along the lines of what you think/see inside is the truth.

...Correct or not, I dunno. But that's what I get from "Sakebi".

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