I just saw the trailer and I'm never seeing this movie. - Forever Strong (2008) Discussion

[–] Laulau56 16 years ago

Dont watch then

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Yeah, don't watch it then.

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[–] jwsel 16 years ago

Why are the All Blacks allowed to do the Haka, when their membership includes whites? The reason is that there is a large Maori population in New Zealand, and their customs influenced the nation and rugby.

That is the same reason why Highland High does the Haka. Utah has a large contingent of Polynesians. Largely because of Mormonism, many Polynesians have moved to Utah resulting in it having relatively large populations of people of Maori, Samoan, and Tongan descent. They brought their traditions, including rugby, to Utah. With them also came the Haka.

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[–] fudgenuts101 16 years ago

Its about the Kiwi history where the Haka originated. It is not something you parade around. Just because you have the right to do something, i.e. young, dumb americans, doesn't mean you have to do it. The haka is very personal and has a deep historical significance to many people. You should either have a good goddamn reason for doing it (like getting permission from a tribe) or not do it at all.

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[–] ben27-1 16 years ago

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

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[–] the_dutch_adonis 16 years ago

Its not ridiculous you retard! How many people chanting kamate kamate in this film actually even know what the *beep* it means?

It is soooooo irrelevant on a rugby field in the US.

Im a white new zealander and a lot of Maori issues piss me off but to have a movie rip the *beep* out of a particular tribes haka is pretty damn tacky.

Haha and rugby is not all that drama bullsh!t....

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[–] Maxpepsi01 9 years ago

This...is...a... movie......retard.

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[–] meininky 16 years ago

They do the haka at my high school, the soccer and football teams. It's just a cool chant thing, no big

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[–] zaboron 16 years ago

This attitude is exactly why people from New Zealand are getting angry about this. The haka is not "just a cool chant thing".

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[–] fudgenuts101 16 years ago

Yes, this film looks like a horrible American bastardization of Rugby and the Haka.

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[–] Shalomp 16 years ago

i just watched the trailer too and i agree totally. but i'm still gonna watch it up to the point where i get to see them do the haka.

if its not done properly the way the all blacks do it i will walk out and tell everyone not to watch it.

if its done properly, i'll still walk out cos those damn bloody mericans should not even be imitating it for some lousy film.

in fact, i know that this movie is gonna suck big time anyway!

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[–] hike_on 16 years ago

Why are kiwis being such bitches about this? Do you object when non-Maori/non-NZ teams do a war dance before their games? You know, teams like Tonga and Samoa? As others have said, Highland HS in Utah (just like most rugby in Utah) has a huge percentage of Polynesians. Should they be forever cut off from their cultural heritage just because they or their parents emigrated to the US instead of to NZ?

And what is the "proper" way to do it? You don't have to go too far back in time to see the All Blacks treating the whole thing like a bit of a laugh - half of them didn't seem to know the words or the moves. Colin Meads, the greatest All Black ever never carried on doing the haka 1% as much as is done now.

I agree on one thing. This movie, like virtually all sports movies (particularly the inspirational kind) is probably going to suck big time.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] sportzgal0189 16 years ago

Ok, really people? it's a movie for crying out loud! it's a person's view on something, just as if an author were to write a book on a certain subject. It's only natural that there will be people who are going to pissed off, but what's the point in being so degrading and crude? Just because one American director made the movie in a way you may not like doesn't make the rest of us Americans "dumb" and "stupid". So get over it! If you're so pissed, write the director, or complain to someone else, or continue to boycott the movie, but stop being such a baby over it. There are plenty of other movies that get cultures wrong, but that's just a human mistake! It's not like the director did this deliberately to piss you off. Maybe they're just trying to educate people in America on rugby, and they only way some people will listen is through an "inspiration sports movie." Most of all, IT'S JUST A MOVIE. It's not to degrade anyone or piss people off. So really, get over it.
(Another thing, how in the world does mormonism even get dragged into a discussion about a rugby movie? FYI, the LDS church is throughout the entire world, not just American. Get your facts straight before you start ripping on people you obviously don't know anything about)

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] doublek30 16 years ago

You dumb stupid americans!!! the haka is like our *beep* national anthem for sports games its not just used for rugby games its used whenever new zealand does something spectacular! so having americans do the haka is like us singing your national anthem or talking that stupid pledge you guys do before an international game. one it is an new zealand custom for new zealands including maoris not freaking polynesians they are totally different. two mormonism its totally bogus y wud u believe that crap anyway! three the hakas a symbol of pride of being a kiwi. four im as white as white can be and the haka orginated from my tribe im am maori and im proud of it n dont get mad at us if we are mad at pussy americans taking the piss outta our national anthem when you dont even understand how the haka orignated or anything look it the *beep* up before you start calling us bitches BITCH!Rugby is no where near a sdramatic as football is to you guys theres no life family dramas wiht it no one in new zealand treats the game that way its if your good play if your not dont you dont have the pressure of your whole family and town on you expecting you to win.

CoRt - NZ

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The haka is a traditional genre of Māori dance. This depiction of a haka as a war dance dates far back as 1700.

Rugby was not invented until the 1870's. The Māori actually used this dance before each Rugby match because they felt as if each Match was a testament of war.

In 2006, "Kapa o Pango", the new haka of the New Zealand rugby union team, the All Blacks created much controversy when a gesture of a thumb drawn down the throat was interpreted by many observers as implying throat slitting. The gesture as understood by the All Blacks and Māori has a significantly different meaning, of "hauora", drawing the breath of life into the heart and lungs.

Many have called for the "Kapa o Pango" haka to be banned, either by the International Rugby Board (IRB) or the New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU), most notably Australian coach John Connolly. A poll conducted in early July showed 60% of the New Zealand population support the new haka.

The All Blacks first performed "Kapa o Pango" against South Africa at Carisbrook in Dunedin on August 27, 2005, after having used the "Ka Mate" haka for almost a century.

So in reference to your post busted 1 89, The All Blacks dont even use the "Ka Mate" anymore. Your society of peers actually want the "Kapa o Pango" more than the original. Therefore making the original HAKA dance fair game for other
people around the globe to use. And also making the dance a FORMER Māori war dance.

Also more than 90% of my fellow Americans can at least write a few sentences down that actually make sence to the reader. You my friend, are an embarrasment to your entire country. Why cant other countries especially THE U.S.A. use other culture's rituals and/or traditions? We have every single race and religion you can think of. Wouldn't you want to teach someone your history? I think deep down you LOVE that WE are making a movie about RUGBY and pieces of your culture.

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[–] busted_1_89 16 years ago

PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH buuuullllly!!!

CoRt - NZ

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[–] daymond-c 12 years ago

I don't know how I got back onto this post 4 years later. But gosh that was embarrassing, what an immature loser I was.

I was reading this thread, justifying the movie (which I still haven't seen) thinking, I'm sure the actors were briefed about the importance of the Maori traditions, and it's probably a Kiwi who taught them and it is based on a true story....then I see my name fighting against it.

Silly me.

But still, I am not an embarrassment to my country. Four years later there are still far more American embarrassments, I even had the "pleasure" of living there to prove my point. As for your 90% of Americans who can apparently write sentences, less than 10% of those can locate your country on a map, and I got that from a documentary, made and presented in America about Americans, so what now?

Once again, an American who thinks the know everything, your country has made plenty of mistakes yet they never learn, but you're all so quick to punish the mistakes of others, tut, tut.

And over the past 4 years, I have seen in person with my own eyes Kamate Kamate used by the All Blacks, they switch on and off with Kapa O Pango. As per usual copy and pasting from Wikipedia never works out well for the "writer" I've never heard of something being far game for other countries to claim as their own just because there is another option to be used now. That's just silly small minded American thinking on your part. Then again, who am I to judge, I am speaking the you that is 4 years younger, less wise. So I hope you see the light now just as I. If not, then oh poor you. :-)

"Fighting on the internet is like being in the special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded"

I hope our lesson has been learnt.

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[–] doublek30 11 years ago

I don't know how I got back onto this post 4 years later. But gosh that was embarrassing, what an immature loser I was.

Agreed....

It is alright that it took you 4 years to realize this, but hey we are not perfect.

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[–] alexvw-2 16 years ago

Look. It was a New Zealander on the team who suggested the Haka in the first place. HE TAUGHT the team. This was MANY years ago, before every team around the world did it. It was NOT suggested as a way to "scare" the opposition, or to show off in ANY way! It is done for team unity, to learn teamwork and sportsmanship. If any of you EVER bother to see this film, you will learn a lot about things every warrior knows and reveres. Now quit your tongue until you know what you are complaining about; this was one of the BEST movies I've ever seen. I laughed at the jokes, and cried-twice-at the deeper meanings I learned through watching this film. Give it a chance.

Rushing to judgement before having knowledge is a sign of immaturity.

You're young; I forgive you.

Alex

P.S. If I've learned ANYTHING, it is this: NEVER judge a movie from its trailer!!!

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[–] kjones2428 16 years ago

Yep. Never going to see this one. I'm english, and rugby is just not american territory.

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[–] bookgurl_25 16 years ago

Ok, I already posted this on the Sean Faris page but here it is again:

P.S. some of this is about Sean so just bear with me for a moment.

And now Forever Strong? I dont know a lot about Rugby but i do know that it is hard work. You have a lot of training to do. Even though he doesnt play in RL (I dont think) he still has to have the appearance of a seasoned player. I know that a lot of you Brits are in a big tizzy because rugby is an overseas sport. Which I agree. But there arent that many rugby movies and I think its good for the sport to get some recognition. I personally love watching it. I think if i tried playing it I would really suck at it but watching it is enough for me. Thats usually why we leave it to you guys.

So for all of you complainers think about all the (hopefully!) recognition this sport will get in the U.S. if this movie is successful. In typical American fashion I plan on seeing it even if it is creating ripples over that big pond we call the ocean. Hope that you will decide to watch it too.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] GardenStateFan 16 years ago

I completely agree with the original post.

And in regards to comment above by james_bond-5, who must either be an idiot or very, very shallow.

1 - Quoting "its just a movie" is an insult to the people within the film industry. Movies have stopped wars, and can spread extremely important messages. Obviously not saying that this is one of those films, but the generalization of what you just said is offensive.

2 - Read above posts as to what's 'bad about it'; there is a reason. You say you are from NZ? Then maybe you should do some research into the haka? It is quite an important part of our history.

3 - Of course we haven't seen it, it's not released yet, but the trailer clearly shows what to expect in the film.

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[–] codyearley 16 years ago

I am from America...Texas for that matter where america Football is king. I have a few comments and am not trying to cause drama...I love Rugby. My roomate played club rugby in college and has been teaching me the game, i have started to practice with local club teams. I watch all international matches and really have a love for the game...Have already booked tickets to New Zealand for the WC in 2011...and am a big fan of a few teams (it is hard to root for Team USA since we suck so bad, but i do anyway) such as USA, England, and NZ...with that i have a few comments on previous post

1. This movie does look dumb...will i see it...probably but just because there is not any rugby movies and i want to see one.

2. As of this exact date 8/25/2008, the number one (accroding to USA today) high school football team in america is Trinity High School in Euless TX. This school does the HAKA before there games. The reason being that a majority of their students and athletes are Tongan, so they do the same version that the Tongan National Rugby Team does. There are lots of teams that use the haka so to claim that it is only an All Black thing and that no one else should do it is stupid. I understand it is very important and sacred to you guys but the All Blacks did not invent the haka they borrowed it form someone else at one point just like other people are borrowing from them...look at it this way a bunch of American kids want to be like the all blacks.

3. Lets be honest here...I love America but i know we are a little self centered and for the majority of Americans rugby is an international game like soccer. Alot of people see it as we have Football you can have Rugby. I want Rugby to grow in America but Rugby is on the sports food chain lower that Soccer which has never caught on here. If this movie can in anyway help Rugby grow in the states even a little bit it can be nothing but good for the sport, so in my mind even if this movie is completly corny and over the top but that is what alot of High School Americans like and it might help the game grow.

Any responses

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[–] wearenot 16 years ago

I'm from New Zealand and I couldn't give a *beep* about this movie. Not because of the haka or its insulting...because RUGBY IS BULLSH!T.

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[–] rfgoodwin 16 years ago

Honestly, i can understand the upset about New Zealanders (i donno if that's what you call yourselves but i'm going to run with it) having offense to the team doing the Haka because it is something only the All-Blacks do for Rugby and Rugby is a HUGE sport there. But as it is, this movie isn't really intended for you. It's intended for us, the Americans, as a way to get us interested in Rugby. I play Rugby at my college, and I love it, but people here don't know the sport/understand it. and in a society brought up with Football it's not worth the time to understand it since it's no big deal. But this movie should do for Rugby in America what NBD did for MMA in America. It will get us interested, and one thing that will have people talking is the haka so i don't see the big deal. What are you New Zealanders afraid of anyway? That the USA team is going to become a huge threat in the 2011 WC and do the Haka before the match?? C'mon, it's not intended to offend. Afterall, the sincerest form of flattery IS immitation.

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[–] codyearley 16 years ago

actually the samoan and tongan rugby teams do the haka before their matches also

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[–] zaboron 16 years ago

No, they don't. They do their own wardances which are NOT called haka, they are called the siva tau (Samoa) and sipi tau (Tonga).

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[–] mre_azwildcat 16 years ago

If any of you read the history of the program in Utah, you would understand a little as well. Since 1986, the school has won 17 national championships; and in 1998 at the World Schools Rugby Championship, the same Highland High School took third overall by beating Tonga. The Highland Rams have mixture of students from many countries, including Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa as well as the U.S. I have a few friends in fact whose family moved from some of these countries to Utah just to play rugby for Highland. What Highland is doing is trying to change the way Americans think of rugby, and trying to recognize it as a national sport.

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[–] sharp_sharpie_sharp 16 years ago

First of all, calling New Zealanders Brits is like calling Americans Brits. It's not right. So whoever you are, a lot of the people replying who are in a 'tizz' are New Zealanders. Get educated.

Secondly, this is a matter of identity. I am Maori and I find it offensive that my language and customs are being used in a movie as a show piece. I understand that other countries have 'war dances' i.e. Samoa, Tonga, Fiji etc but this is a Maori haka which is used by New Zealanders and has been adopted by the All Blacks not as a show piece, but as a challenge to the opposing team. Culture should not be just bandied about because it makes a good movie. Maybe the makers of this movie need to get educated about the importance of culture, or maybe they don't identify with a specific culture themselves that would show them why this is wrong. Whatever the reasoning is, this is offensive.

Thirdly, I agree that Americans need to understand rugby more. The US has a national team and they are not actually that bad :). But using elements of another culture to do so doesn't allow Americans to identify with it themselves. It just allows them to identify with another culture. And 'mre azwildcat' I don't know many Australians who would be happy doing the haka so saying that there are members of the Highland team that are Australians doesn't really help your point. :)

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[–] thehookah 16 years ago

Sharp,

This movie is actually a very close representation of Highland High School, as others have said, a team that has strong Polynesian roots, and a team that does perform a Haka. The filmakers are not adding it as a gimmick.

Americans do need to understand more about Rugby, but those that are involved in the sport actually know a lot about the sport, it's cultures and history.

Clearly many of the responses on here are Kiwi's who are (in your words) in a Tizz. Sadly it seems that the topic of the Haka is the number 1 Tizz generator to all New Zealanders. Up until the 1990's the Haka was not taken seriously even by the All Blacks, the Buck Shelford started to raise it's profile, to the point now where people act as if it some kind of religious ceremony. The fact that the NZRFU created such a fuss in Wales the other year is a prime example of that, and having the team perform the Haka in the changing rooms as a protest was a pathetic case of a team chucking a tantrum because they wanted things their own way. During the recent tour of NZ by the (admittedly hopeless) England team I heard the NZ commentators muttering about the fact that the English came out in their tracksuits and took them off after the Haka. I think perhaps this whooe Haka business has got a bit out of control.

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[–] sharp_sharpie_sharp 16 years ago

I guess my main question is do they perform the Ka Mate haka on the highland team?

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[–] grafology 16 years ago

Samoa, Tonga and FIji have their own 'Ka Mate' is the NZ haka along with 'Kapa O Pango'so i guess the offence isnt that they are doing a haka just the particular haka is relevant to New Zealand.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] cuckookazoo 16 years ago

>>> Movies have stopped wars,

That's debatable. What movie ever stopped a war? This one appears to be starting one, at least in the confines of IMDB. Honestly, there's an awful lot of arrogance and hatred on these pages.

I knew nothing about Haka and very little about rugby before seeing this movie. To read these posts from people who for the most part hadn't even seen the movie before spouting off, one would almost think Haka is a bad thing, for the amount of hatred it has generated. But here is my impression of Haka after seeing the movie today: themes of brotherhood, honor, respect, integrity....

And all that done by us "stupid Americans", who according to some people on this board, don't know how to portray such themes, or at least can't get it "right". How insufferably arrogant. Remember, I had *never heard* of Haka before today, and I left the theater wanting to know more. But to read what some of you *supposed* believers in Haka are saying about anyone outside your own little world, own little culture, I'm not so sure. For everyone who has nasty things to say about others, before you go recommending that people "educate" themselves about what Haka really means, you might want to start living up to those values yourselves.

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[–] zozo_09 16 years ago

The haka thing was a bit off, but I'm just so psyched that there's FINALLY going to be a film about rugby!!!!!!! :D

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[–] lvstoddard 16 years ago

I can understand why you don't want to see it. But before you completely make a final decision, this is not about the Haka or about Rugby. This is the true story about a boy in Utah who ends up in jail for driving drunk (2nd offence) and causing an accident. The warden of the jail realizes this kid can continue his life down the path he has set for himself, or maybe it might be possible to help him. Sean Astin plays the man who helps this kid get in to Highland high school (n Salt Lake City, Utah) and on to the school team. The kid's father is coach or a rival team. And the movie also shows conflict between him and his son, and I hope how it isi resolved. From what I understand it is being called very inspiring. I do know Rugby is in the show all the way through because that is the sport the main character plays, I do not know how much of the Haka will be in the movie.

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[–] mpsports333 16 years ago

I'm just happy to see a mainstream movie being made about rugby; this, along with "The Human Factor", I hope will increase the popularity of rugby in America

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[–] karelva 16 years ago

I'm an American who played third division national in France for some 15 years. Just watching the trailer I can tell you right now that this is going to make a big mockery of the reality of the game. The first minute made me wince. It's regrettable, they could have made this movie about the raw beauty of a game that is little known and understood in the US and, instead, made it a pointless story about a troubled kid with daddy issues who goes to juvie. I've seen that movie before (Football: "The Program", Hockey: "Youngblood", I could go on and on). To be expected, unfortunately.

Rugby players are not big on this sort of theatrical nonsense stuff. They're people who keep quiet about their accomplishments on the field, like to give and take a beating, spend a lot of time together and have a few drinks. They're also incredibly focused on the technical, tactical and strategic aspects of the game, which (as far as my limited experience goes playing stateside), America never quite grasped.

For those who don't get why New Zealanders are offended by the cheap recycling of the Haka: You have no idea what this movie is messing with.

It equates to flag-burning in the US and certainly beats Borat butchering "the Star-Spangled Banner" in pig-Kazakh at a rodeo show.

This is not an anti-American tirade. It just seems like it's ok for us to offend the rest of the world when we take ownership of something sacred, that does not belong to us and deprecate it. But do it to us, and we'll bomb you.

Before commenting, please, do a little reading:

http://www.haka.co.nz/haka.php

Then watch this and tell me if some cheapo pile of Disney crapola could ever do it justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83U_Vg1GRvA

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[–] cuckookazoo 16 years ago

>>> Rugby players are not big on this sort of theatrical nonsense stuff.

As with nearly all sports movies, it was less about the sport than it was about the people and how the sport changed their lives for the better. That's hardly "nonsense".

>>> It equates to flag-burning in the US

Melodrama, much? Here's what I got from seeing the movie: A lift. A curiosity to know more about both rugby and the Haka, which as it was portrayed in the movie, seemed to me to be a beautiful tradition. I apologize if anyone is offended by my calling it a tradition, maybe that's the wrong word. The point is, I was impressed, very much liked the the themes of brotherhood, honor, respect, integrity.... Why on Earth would people be offended by such values? Why on Earth would anyone have the audacity or arrogance to suggest that only one group of people have the right to portray such values? Or that only one group of people can do it "right"?

>>> Then watch this and tell me if some cheapo pile of Disney crapola could ever do it justice.

Disney did not make this movie.

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[–] karelva 16 years ago

I am glad you enjoyed the movie. I hope you also play the sport, or at least watch it on TV, it puts it in perspective for you.

I agree with you: The outrage in the US caused by flag burning in the Middle-East and elsewhere is excessively melodramatic. Blame Fox News. If you don't believe me about the whole Haka thing, just read the rest of the forum...

Thanks for enlightening me about the Disney thing. Until you showed up, I was little more than ignorant fool.

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