...disguised as a something mainstream. A "horror" film with a message? Sorry, I thought Christians were against violence in cinema. Nice to know they have branched out to bring everyone their "message" of love, tolerance, and exclusion (i.e.- "we love you, burn in hell"). Its like turning the channel of your car radio to a station with music that sounds cool, until you hear what the lyrics are trying to convert you too.
shareYawn, how original of you.
shareWOW! The OP's post was one of the most unbelievably ignorant and narrow-minded posts I think I've ever read. Way to go man!
On the contrary, this movie looks great, and genuinely scary. Scary....where most modern horror movies are just stupid. Peretti and Dekker are amazing authors, and it's looks like it could be a pretty faithful adaptation.
Message to the OP: Grow up and stop stereotyping!
This was pretty much just stupid and nothing close to scary.
shareHave you even watched the trailer yet? Or did you just look at the other board posts and post regarding your own intolerance towards Christians?
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God operates on the line of logic. We must choose a side.
It is ironic, maybe, that those who rail against Christians for being intolerant are quite often just as, if not more, intolerant.
shareNot ironic, rather rational actually. We've been taught to be intolerant by the best: theists.
"There is only one way to be born, but a thousand ways to die."
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To the OP:
the Bible has everything you would find in a mainstream horror film: sex, violence, alcohol, you name it...it's there. If the Bible were made into a movie it would have an NC-17 rating.
Jesus ate with sinners and tax collectors...he never preached...he told stories...stories with messages...these are called parables.
Using the mainstream to send a positive message is nothing new. Oh...and it can be done without being religious in nature or from the point of view of other religions. As a Christian, I watch movies that have a positive message...even Star Wars with it's Buddhist persuasion. I'm not Buddhist...but I do believe we can learn from it. So instead of attacking this, why don't you watch it. If it seems preachy, then avoid it and tell your friends not to watch it. But maybe it wont come across as preachy but instead it will offer you hope. That doesn't mean you have to convert to Christianity...it just means you can leave with a good feeling instead of being all depressed. Last time I checked, this was considered a good thing.
I don't think the OP will be coming back here to read your post jerrys...I wish he would. I agree with you 100%. Intolerance is taken too personally by people regarding Christians...and some Christians take it too personally as well. People say the bible is black and white...I would agree that the bible was written in black and white. The letters are black and the pages are white. Otherwise, we as Christians are supposed to be intolerant of sin, but not the sinner. I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle...I still have good friends that are gay but they know where I stand on their lifestyle. We are to love the sinner but hate the sin. People need to realize this about us and us as Christians need to live that more without the feeling of hate and despise.
Everyone is more memrable when they're dead. Welcome to L.A.
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. . . what part of the word "PARABLE" don't you understand. Look it up in a dictionary; might help. (doubt it, though.)
~se7en
"No one OWNS God or the truth."
~Frank Black,("MillenniuM", S3,"Forcing The End")
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No, the Bible is a work of non-fiction. It's the past, the present and the future. It's Truth.
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Sorry, but it really is a work of fiction. Given what we know now of history and science, it is very silly for people to continue to believe in such myths. You might as well believe in Thor or Zeus.
Seriously, you don't need to take my word on it. Just read more about history, evolution , cosmology (from real experts, not christian ones) and specially other religions. If after all this you still feel the bible is the truth, then at least you will have made a conscious decision.
Since when did evolution become fact anyways? Last time I checked it was still a theory, and theories are not facts. Although, one or two areas of evolution do make sense (natural selection and micro-evolution are clearly the more sane choices here).
Also, take into consideration that the Bible is a collection of books written by a majority of different people. There are not any contradictions in the Bible. So, either its a pretty elaborate hoax, or it is not a work of fiction. I tend to believe the latter.
If you think there aren't any contradictions in the bible, you haven't read it.
shareIf you think there aren't any contradictions in the bible, you haven't read it
A small experiment: take an axe and hold it at arm's length above your head. Now let go.
That's right - you're just testing out Newton's THEORY of gravity; Einstein added to it, but its still just a theory. In scientific circles a theory has undergone rigourous examination and is accepted until it is disproven. Theories can never be proven, your comment that "it was still a theory" displays an ignorance of the scientific process - you are attempting to reject current scientific belief using a lay persons' definition of 'theory'.
The theory of evolution has been universally accepted by scientists (both Christian & non-Christian) who study the biological sciences. There is still discussion, but about the minutiae of evolution, not evolution itself.
I.e. what I am saying is that,even though the scientific world describes it as a 'theory' you can accept it as fact, and consider it as fact UNTIL it is disproven.
Well... Someone needs to read up on Newton..
He actually made some discoveries.. that yes withstood testing.. blah blah blah..
Fact is.. Those theories of his.. became LAW..
Sad that you missed it in school.. but here they are...
I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.
III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
These are called Laws, because they are more than theories...
92% of teens listen to rap. If you're part of the 8% that listens to real music use this signature.
physics... just a pure world with no interference...not reality
the perfect experiment/situation
all those laws have flaws
"Since when did evolution become fact anyways? Last time I checked it was still a theory, and theories are not facts."
Educate yourself. There are, in fact, multiple definitions for "theory". In science, the word theory is used to describe an explanation of observations based on observable facts. It remains a theory until there is any evidence to the contrary that disputes it, i.e. new facts. The fact that you and so many other "christians" don't understand this basic 4th grade science concept is astounding to me.
Stop being a parrot and read a book (one that they don't serve up on sundays)
Scientific Theories and facts are not mutually exclusive.
The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory. It is also fact.
There are smaller aspects of the overall theory that are still disputed, but there is no debate whatsoever in the scientific community over whether or not evolution is a fact.
Gravity is a theory. The earth revolving around the sun is a theory. These are also facts.
Get it?
I can kill you with my brain.
"Last time I checked [evolution] was still a theory..."
Scientific Theory. Gravity is also a theory. Or does God make everything go up and down too?
A theory is a scientific GUESTAMATION not having all the answers to all the questions but using what data is available to point an arrow to the most logical answer. I learned that in science class in elemetary, junior high, high school, and college...and all of my teachers all said the same thing when it came to theories...
It doesn't make them fact.
You can talk about gravity still being a theory all you want...gravity won't answer the question on evolution or the big bang. I'm not apart of this argument nor shall I ever be...I just had to clearify your remark on theory. We should be proud that we have proved gravity correct. Now do your research on evoltion and...please...don't take a picture of a chimp and your mug and say they look alike. That's old. If you actually delved into the study of evolution and trying to prove it a fact...it becomes much more complicated then you think. With each breakdown of the human and chimp DNA they find more and more complexities that distance the two...and yes, they also find things that make them similar, but just to point out that it is still a VERY complex study that we just can't go on a whim and say it is because a group of people with high IQ's say so. All they keep doing in their study is point the arrow to a logical choice. Maybe it's right, and maybe it's not. But what we do know is that we're alive and not a whole lot of time in the grand scheam of things to be bickering and aruging about something that hasn't been proven yet...and I mean that on all sides. Not just the science geeks. (I'm sorry if that offended you. If it helps, I'm a movie geek. Geeks are geeks no matter what.)
Stop the arguing and start living your lives the way you believe they should be lived and STOP forcing other people to think your way. Enough ideals and beliefs have been shoved down enough peoples throats with this election by the two candidates to last the next 4 years. Lets end it now.
Everyone is more memrable when they're dead. Welcome to L.A.
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Sorry, but it really is a work of fiction
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Let's take for example, a random book from Dan Brown.
--Okay.
He bases his books on history and science. Does that make the "Da Vinci Code" more real? No.
--Of course not but it uses an element of the real world for interest.
Does history inside the Bible make it more real? No.
--That is the stupidest excuse ever for the Bible not being true. History is something that is real and happened in the past. The Da Vinci Code is fiction and based in history, parts of the Bible are history. That's the difference. Also there have been many archaeological findings to prove many events, people found in the Bible did exist.
You really need to understand that you can't prove that God exists.
--I can't prove anything. The Holy Spirit helps open our eyes to his existence through faith. Unless you're willing to even consider the possibility of God existing you'll just come across as a stubborn mule.
People once believed that the Earth was flat, the church believed that the Earth was the center of the Universe and killed everyone that said otherwise.
--There is no evidence for this - the killing everyone to silence them is so fiction. Yes, they often did things that were wrong but for them it was about power and wealth and not about God.
Those who believed the Earth was flat back in that day didn't have access to the Bible. It clearly states that God made the world round and that the Earth isn't at the centre of the universe. How could mankind have known about that before Galileo or whatever? Divine inspiration. Isn't it funny how the truth was claimed as heretical by the very church which built their beliefs on what God said through the Bible?
Etc, etc.
--You sir, are running out of material.
Then you should believe in Zeus and Jupiter, Mars and Venus, Seth and Horus.
--I don't know how you came to that conclusion. They're interesting to read about but no I shouldn't believe in them. Their is no historical evidence for them, whereas there is significant historical evidence of Jesus existing (historically even if you don't believe the Son of God part).
You think they are a myth. Ok. So do I.
--Okay.
In another 2000 years, people will believe that God was a myth.
Shame you won't be here to see it.
--In 2,000 years you and I will be dead, so neither of us will see it, if it happens, which I don't believe it will. If Jesus hasn't returned by then, there will still be far less Christians then there are today.
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You really need to understand that you can't prove that God exists.
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You still didn't prove to me that God exists
I'll assume by now that you can't prove it
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I have chosen to stay out of this for good reason. I believe that this thread shouldn't be on this board because we stopped talking about House on page 1. However, in my opinion, this has gone on long enough.
To put it simply, what you are looking for does not exist in the sense you are wanting it to. There is (and most likely won't be until the end of days) no tangible evidence that Jesus Christ is the one and only unique Son of God. But this is for a good reason.
If there were 100% indisputable evidence, what is the point of faith? God has never been in the market for "robot worshipers" that praise Him only because there is no other choice. God gave us free will so we could choose to refute Him or follow Him. That is what faith is, trusting in God by my own choice, no one else's. Not my parent's, not my friends, I am the one who decided to follow God.
I won't try to guess why you won't consider God as a possibility, assumptions usually end horribly. All I can tell you is why I have chosen to follow God instead of this world. Everything I've experienced that this world has shown and offered me left me empty inside. No matter how much I tried to fill my life with stuff like school, friends, hobbies, etc.., it never satisfied me.
When my mother took me to church, I was rebellious at first, to me, it was just sitting in a pew for an hour while some guy at the front talked and talked and talked. But as I began to listen instead of just passing off what he was saying, something began stirring in me. I was hearing about a God who not only created me for a purpose, but loved me despite all the things I've done wrong. And as I began to get more involved in things my church provided, the more I fell in love with God. And that is when I took my leap of faith, and dedicated my life, my love, and my being to following God.
I don't have all the answers, quite frankly I'm not supposed too. How is a mortal man like myself supposed to know the inner most workings of an infinite, omnipotent, and omniscient being. That is why there is faith, to trust the things we can not know. It's not easy, and it doesn't always make sense, but things like grace, forgiveness, and love rarely do.
"Light came into the darkness, but the darkness did not understand it" John 1:5
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Do you, at all, realize how transparent you are?
So, you just believe in it because you feel like it
Say what you will about me, it doesn't change the fact that my God loves you.
"Light came into the darkness, but the darkness did not understand it" John 1:5
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If a parent punishes a child, does that affect the love that parent has for that child?
Hell is the punishment for denying God and Jesus as Savior. But I know that God loves you, that's why He sent His Son to die for you. The choice between Heaven and Hell is ours to make, that's why God gives us this time on earth, to choose to follow Him or to reject Him. And that choice determines if we go to spend eternity with God or away from God.
"Light came into the darkness, but the darkness did not understand it" John 1:5
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I've told some of the holes that are controversial
since reason doesn't work with them
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If Hell exists as many people traditionally understand it (eternal horrible punishment for sin), then God would be unjust. Consider: would it be just for God to punish someone eternaly for any amount of sin that could be committed in a finite lifetime? Also how "bad" do you have to be to deserve such a Hell? By what standard or scale is this evaluated? (Likewise how "good" do you have to be to deserve the traditional concept of Heaven?) Surely a God of love is above such petty judgments and Christians should stop all the hell-threats. If people have faith only to avoid the threat of hell (or to gain the reward of heaven) then it's only a religion based on self-interest. A truly divine religion must be better than that. There are more progressive and enlightened forms of Christianity than this.
shareWow you're a condescending little prick aren't you?
I'm not even taking a side here, but I notice instead of having a discussion you're insulting someone's entire religion.
Maybe I'll just sit here and bleed at you.
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You're like a guy putting his hands over his ears and singing "Flintstones! Meet the Flintstones!"
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have you actualy read the bible
have you compared what historians have found from the information contained in it compared to historical artifacts
e.g. nobody thought that the pharohs of egypt used chariots as they didn't have horses, several historians studied into this and found
a) chariots and horses skeletons dated back to the parting of the red sea in the bottom of the red sea
b) stables not far from the pyryamids of egypt
there is no core evidence for evolution, just a theory which cannot be proven scientifically
carbon dating doesn't work at all
science, what do you mean which science?
So you do agree that the Bible is a work of fiction
You religion fanatics just need to have an excuse to everything
so you don't believe in the bible, honestly i don't care.
but i do, and i'm not going to bash someone that believes otherwise.
i don't think it's stupid that hindus worship a cow, because they believe that it has done good things for them, like christians believe god has done good for them.
just stop being ignorant and let people believe what they want to believe.
don't push your beliefs down my throat and i will have the same respect.
I love you so much it's retarded.
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You obviously know nothing about the historicity of Christ. Just a word of advice, when you know nothing about something, it's best to just hold your tongue.
"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus
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Haha! You think that "us believers" have all had the same instruction as you? Just a few "usual lessons at the church"? Wrong. Some of us have devoted our lives to studying the Bible and Christian apologetics (not to mention world religions, philosophy, etc).
I'm not sure what dragons, vampires, witches and so forth have to do with Christianity, maybe you could enlighten me?
I'm not blinded by anything, certainly not witch hunts and "old religion propaganda".
I don't see how you can say that the teachings of religions "aren't bad", but they are based on something that is fake. How can something based on a lie be a good thing?
Believing that you, a mortal, created being knows for sure that there is no God, and no religion is true is the ultimate arrogance (and stupidity).
Believe in your convictions and live by them, that is true life.
"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus
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I believe there is nothing beyond us. There's only us and the universe. We all have the same importance. Your God needs to feel superior and praised by you so he can save you, rather arrogant isn't it?
--No, he didn't need to save humankind, he chose too. And he is superior, he's God!
Anyway, dragons, vampires and witches have something to do with Christianity. Many people in the world believed they were real, at least in the past. Same goes with your religion, you may think God exists, but some day christianity will end up being a myth, like the roman and greek ones.
Just a glympse in the past, to people to study and be enlighted about, but nothing more.
--No, it's not. It's survived this far despite many people trying to get rid of it. I'm sure it will survive much longer. Also, Vampires came from Christian belief about those who rejected God's grace - Bram Stoker was a Christian. The stories of dragons are elaborated tales of dinosaurs and witches (they exist - people who are on Satan's side of the fence).
I still can't understand how you don't get it. Religions come and go, they are created by men, to fool men, in order for them to believe in things that don't exist. It's as simple as that. Why can't you get it? Sheesh!
--Because I'm not stupid. I'm not parroting what someone else said, I've thought long and hard about my beliefs and why I believe them. You are the one who hasn't given it much thought.
Why do you choose to believe there was someone in Earth, about 2000 years ago, that could do miracles, rather than believe that there is nothing out there?
--Because it's true, it gives worth to the world and everyone in it. It provides hope for the future. Also because if we can't rely on ourselves when we fail in life, who can we rely on? That's right. No one human at least. Jesus is the Truth, an absolute by which good and evil are valued.
Maybe your life would lose all your meaning? Well, life ain't fair. Deal with it instead of relying on old tales.
--Closed minds, closed hearts. I've heard it all before. Of course my beliefs give my life meaning. It's important to know who you are and your purpose.
Life isn't fair, you're right, but you're not being fair either. You don't listen to a word I say. If you prefer to think you're a cosmic accident, why do you care about anything? Friends, family etc.? Aren't they all meaningless then?
I really think you are the one who needs to think long and hard (yourself), not just taking from other people's arguments and constructing flimsy arguements/statements etc.
It's as simple as that
I believe there is nothing beyond us. There's only us and the universe. We all have the same importance. Your God needs to feel superior and praised by you so he can save you, rather arrogant isn't it?
Anyway, dragons, vampires and witches have something to do with Christianity. Many people in the world believed they were real, at least in the past. Same goes with your religion, you may think God exists, but some day christianity will end up being a myth, like the roman and greek ones.
I still can't understand how you don't get it. Religions come and go, they are created by men, to fool men, in order for them to believe in things that don't exist. It's as simple as that. Why can't you get it? Sheesh!
Maybe your life would lose all your meaning? Well, life ain't fair. Deal with it instead of relying on old tales.
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God left us a book with many loopholes in it
Since it's the word of God, everything in the Bible should be the absolute truth, but since many of it has been proven false
Logic and simple, right?
Every religion says you're going to "hell" (or something similar) if you don't believe in that religion
You're too deep to figure it out
Once again your ignorance knows no bounds.
God left us a book with many loopholes in it. Since it's the word of God, everything in the Bible should be the absolute truth, but since many of it has been proven false... does that mean that God was wrong? Yes, it does.
--What parts were proved wrong? The Bible is made up of many genres - history, poem, apocalyptic symbolism, laws - the list goes on.
If God is God, God can't be wrong. Then, God cannot exist.
--First you have to establish who God is first. Is he the Christian God or something other. If he's the Christian God, he's the Truth and can't be wrong but this doesn't negate his existence at all.
Logic and simple, right?
--No, you aren't making any sense and your arguements are terribly thought out.
Point two: Every religion says you're going to "hell" (or something similar) if you don't believe in that religion. You realize that everyone in the world is going to "hell", right?
--Yes, almost every religion has their own version of Hell (although there are many that also don't). Not everyone is going to Hell. Those who accept Jesus Christ as Lord go to Heaven.
If all religions are sacred and must be respected, then, all of them have equal rights to be true. If all of them are true, the "hell" rule is true in all of them.
--Almost. The people who believe other things should be respected, but a Christian doesn't need to respect their actual beliefs and hold them to be sacred. If all religions are true, what determines truth? How can all religions be true if God says only those who come to him through his Son Jesus can be saved. That indicates one path to salvation.
Since you can't have (by logic reasons), more than 1 religion, you'll go to hell.
--Like I said, not if you accept Jesus is truth, then you will go to Heaven.
Ergo, having a religion doesn't make sense, because you're never going to be saved anyway. You're preaching to your doom. NICE!
--Well done, you just proved you have nothing to argue with.
Self-righteousness is not attractive.
You're too deep to figure it out, take a deep breath, look from above and realize, like Nietzsche, that "God is dead".
--How can God be dead if you believe he doesn't even exist? Why are you offended by someone you believe doesn't exist? Now that doesn't make sense.
Also saying God's dead isn't going to make him dead. Sure it seems like he doesn't care sometimes but that's our own fallen nature giving us that perspective. You prefer being your own God? Making up your own truth? What happens when you bugger up in life? Who do you turn too?
Your straw man argument is alight.
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Our country was founded on religion. Did you not take that class in school? Or did you just not believe it? The people that did not follow the Church of England left there to go to America where they wouldn't be under the former church and could worship the way they wanted. You call us fanatics when Anthiests (I'm sorry...you call yourselves Agnostics now) are monopolizing everything in our society. Our government was founded on the priniples taught in the bible. John Adams even said, "The bible shall be the fulcrom of our government and have it be taught in the schools so all shall know where their laws come from." Oh, did that offend you? My using an actual quote from one of our founding fathers? I've been reading your posts as well as the others and they are right...you're not arguing or debating, you're ranting. You're trying to pretty up your words like someone passing themselves off as a scholar to impress some dumb blonde at a bar when really you don't know what you are talking about.
The person you were refering to just then wasn't being ignorant by any means, even if I am a believer. He was saying that he had respect for other peoples beliefs and were not going to throw them down anyone's throats but he knew where he stood in his faith and that his faith was right. He wasn't condemning anyone...there are Christian churches all over India...even in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Afganistan, China...places where it is illegal for Christian churches or Christianity at all...they're there and ecessable to anyone who wants to find out more about the teachings of Jesus. But some people are ignorant (*cough*you*cough*) and start to argue something they have no idea about.
We know what the Atheists science is. We were taught it in school, and had it beat into our heads by our culture. We get it, but we don't believe it. We know what the truth is and because it goes against some THEORIES about how the world came to be...we're fanatics? You might need to grab a dictionary or..you know what, just go back to school and take english all over again. And, take "speech and debate" while you're at it. If you are going to throw out something that we have to take seriously you need something to back it up with. That's what the other two you're "arguing" with have been doing. You just haven't caught on yet...
Everyone is more memrable when they're dead. Welcome to L.A.
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I'm not American. I'm Portuguese. At least, here in Portugal we don't explain to kids that Creacionism is the right theory.
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In some States, that is true.
But I guess you guys like to believe more in the Supernatural (never been proven to exist in the first place) than in Science (I guess we all agree that science does exist).
Religion = Supernatural = Never been proved.
Science = Basic Standard of Civilization.
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Oversimplifying?
C'mon !!!!!!!!
And don't try to say it was a figurative ressurection. It was a literal.
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Why do we need to make it complex?
Supernatural is impossible
If you're the most honest person in the world and you get killed in a gruesome way, they'll say "don't question god's will, it was what he wanted".
I mean, are you keep going to make up excuses just to hold your belief in religion?
All I've done in this thread it trying to demolish religion
Why should I believe in religion? Give me proof
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If you come from the perspective that totally dismisses the supernatural as existing in any form, of course you're going to have trouble swallowing anything of Christian belief that involves the supernatural (of which there is a lot).
Belief works on acceptance of Christ, and faith given by the Holy Spirit.
To anyone else it's nonsense.
As for Christianity, it centres around the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, not just the resurrection and not just the death, but the two together.
Science is used to understand the world, but that only helps us understand the physical world, science combined with faith can help us better understand the supernatural world.
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religion fanatics will always be blind
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There is no Jesus of Nazareth, in any historical record of the time, anywhere; and the Romans were notorious record-keepers.
That particular bit of history, I know to be true.
"As the Philosopher Jagger said, you can't always get what you want."
Then you haven't done any research, because it is there (and certainly not just in the Bible).
shareThere is no Jesus of Nazareth, in any historical record of the time, anywhere; and the Romans were notorious record-keepers.
I now it was a hoax. Maybe some day you'll wake up and see that Jesus is one too
Yeah, we really do and at least we have something to believe in. Check it out. Maybe you should hear what people like Peretti and Dekker have to say. You seem to be searching for truth, but when you make truth relative, there is no such thing as truth. We have truth that's true whether you believe it or not, whether you receive it or not, and whether you like it or not.
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I guess religion fanatics will never listen to reason
This thread wasn't made for something like this. This is a movie thread and here you people are arguing about what...something that you can convince the other person in in 50 words or less? You all sound like children who have studied the dictionary since they were two.
Christians, you can not win an argument like this. You need to bring the truth that leads to conviction, not arguments. You can't push them into a corner and make them feel like they have no where else to go or believe but your way. That is not right by any standards.
And non-believers...I'm getting pissed off with this new generation. We think that because we're young and going to take over the stability of the world after our parents that we can be jerks to whoever and for whatever reason we choose because..."that's who we are and no one can makes up conform." Get off your high horse. That's the biggest bunch of BS. And I'm expecting you all to have some sort of comeback by saying, "I'm not a jerk! You're being a hypocrite, that's not the Christian way, cry cry cry cry cry!!" This generation is a bunch of babies...just all around, doesn't matter who you are babies that think they can get away with what they want because that's the in-thing these days is and you lable it "self-expression". I call it copping out. Honestly, is it very hard to let some people believe what they want to believe? Because with you guys coming on here (and I know it you guys who started it because this is a Christian movie and the majority of people on here are Christian) and telling people their wrong and you're right makes you no better than them and all you're doing is spreading your religion that there is no God that loves us and cares for us and meets our needs...so we don't get each other (Christian/Atheism) confused you should put a book or maybe even a collection of books together to talk about what you think and why you think it, have everyone that agrees with you read it so they know what they are talking about when they speak about it with other people, set certain people aside that can teach people so no one is left in the dark...maybe even build a building that you all can meet at on a routine basis and be together, sing some songs, have a cup of coffee and listen to your teacher!!!
What you believe is religion in the fact that you're fanatic enough to try to argue with people to make them believe...in what? Not believing? It must be a bad thing to believe in an all powerful being that loves us so much that he sent his own flesh and blood to die for us so we could be with him forever because he is perfect in every way and because of that love and sacrifice we have eternal life after this one and so we have a better self asteem and outlook on life and that our God holds us to the highest of moral character so we strive to better ourselves, our community and the world around us by choosing the morally ethically responsable courses of action because everyone matters...yes...I can see what you see now...that's terrible! How dare they! Who does the right thing, honestly! They should burn!! Blasphemers! Our older monkey selves are the true Gods and we worship them!
Get off the high horse and take a chill pill. It's getting very, very, VERY old...
Everyone is more memrable when they're dead. Welcome to L.A.
Christians, you can not win an argument like this
Don't mean to put a downer on your reply...I can see how you feel justified by your words and respect that you have the conviction to stand up for your beliefs and you do so very articulately, but the fact is that all this overpowering love that your god has is the hoax to get people into the religion cause when one begins their study of what the bible really contains then damnation is the predominant part of the teachings. This love that you speak of doesn't reach out to those most in need of it...yes we see diseased people and tax collectors and hookers being forgiven, but it also condemns many more, like "sodomites"(gay people) and those with a high libido(normal sexually active people) and many more. Also for any historians out there then I'm sure you know that most of the Bible was made up by the Oecumenical Councils from back in the day. And the virgin birth excuse has been in use since the times of the Greek empire, as far back as 12th century B.C and probably further...women said they were impregnated by a god(such as Zues or his messenger Hermes) to cover up extra marital affairs or premarital sex/orgies.
Just to clarify I am playing devil's advocate here...seeing it from both perspectives leaves me with the logical conclusion that no one is being converted either way...clearly ye(the Christians) are very strong in ye're beliefs and thus were drawn to this movie(maybe it was mentioned during mass or service etc) but some watched it out of interest in the plot and were dissapointed by the clear and one sided Christian overtones, others came on to see what it was about and wished to express their dismay at a film which seemed to have an interesting premise, but was actually a vehicle for religion.
Putting it into perspective, how many Christians would watch or have watched a Scientology film? For those who have, was anyone offended by the obvious propoganda? If yes, That's how we(The non-Christians feel)about this...
If nothing we do matters...then all that matters is what we do...
all this overpowering love that your god has is the hoax to get people into the religion cause when one begins their study of what the bible really contains then damnation is the predominant part of the teachings
Also for any historians out there then I'm sure you know that most of the Bible was made up by the Oecumenical Councils from back in the day
And the virgin birth excuse has been in use since the times of the Greek empire
Putting it into perspective, how many Christians would watch or have watched a Scientology film?
was anyone offended by the obvious propoganda? If yes, That's how we(The non-Christians feel)about this...
some watched it out of interest in the plot and were dissapointed by the clear and one sided Christian overtones, others came on to see what it was about and wished to express their dismay at a film which seemed to have an interesting premise, but was actually a vehicle for religion
That's how we(The non-Christians feel)about this...
And non-believers...I'm getting pissed off with this new generation.
[deleted]
Wow still with the Homosexuality is a sin eh? Fine then do me a favour and pray for those who cut their hair, don't shave their beards, eat pork, plant more than one kind of seed in their fields. Tolerate these sinners and pray for their eternal souls. Let them know where you stand on these evil practices.
Alternatively do some research on the bible and the question of homosexuality. It remains heavily debated to this day. I tolerate most people but those who refuse to question, to learn and continue to judge others are sinning themselves.
Wow. What a bunch of amazing responses. Thank you all for that. As a christian filmmaker in the action horror genres this is really good to hear. Dekker and Peretti and Gibson have broken the mold, now lets work on craft and performance and we can tell stories the mainstream won't know what to do with. They will be stunned.
*mike
That old "good friend," defense gets me every time I hear it. Being gay isn't a lifestyle, just as being heterosexual isn't a lifestyle. I grew up being attracted to the same sex, just as you grew up attracted to the opposite sex (assuming you are straight, as people who have a problem with gays are usually gay themselves). How "good," are those gay friends of yours? So good that you don't want to see them happy. Would you rather they try and live the straight "lifestyle," just to please you?. This is why christians are always getting crap from people, because they are hypocrites who think their way of living is the only way of living. Step outside of your little safe world and open your eyes. You've got a lot to learn.
share*high-five*
I wish there were more christians were like you, man. You really hit the nail on the head.
However, the reason I'm posting at all is to encourage everyone who reads this to STOP REPLYING TO THIS THREAD.
It's only pushing it to the top of the House message board, making it more accessible for people wanting to know whether or not they should see the movie to find it.
Let it die.
Post on the other, worthwhile threads instead.
Don't let the trolls win. :)
... And don't forget Christ used marijuana.
As for the film, I just watched it last week. Bleh. Sorry, it does kind of try and hammer it's morality home. I don't like that in films Christian or other.
- I have a giant soap box and I intend to smash you with it.
While you're right that the Bible does have sex, violence, etc, it would never get an NC-17. Even if the MPAA didn't let it slide by (which they would), the political machine would rise up and fight such a rating.
Amen to that!
shareYour MOM told parables. D:
"God was a dream of good government."
I love how you use the Bible to justify mainstream horror flicks. Let's see. I believe Kill Bill was inspired by God's jealous character: Vengeance is Mine! Do you see the *beep* in all of this?
shareComing from one of the few hundred who have already seen this movie at the gathering screening, this movie is not all preachy. There are just things that are "Symbolic" in this movie. Its symbolic to our redemption as christians. This movie is not preachy, its just the story of redemption. Evil is shown as evil in itself, and good is shown even brighter.
You are ignorant to say that, when you, yourself, have not watched it yet.
Okay...so a "horror" movie that has a symbolic message that REFLECTS Christianity isn't okay. Yet some documentary about a crazed Agnostic comedian going out to LITERALY make fun of religion is perfectly okay.
News flash: 90% of movies and TV center around Athiesm. Is it okay if just once in a while a Christian produces a film that REFLECTS their view on faith?
Come on we're all adults. Why can't we just share the big screen without any conflict?
Being a Catholic,
I find some of thing said by you "Christians" just plain unbelievable.
Disproving evolution?
Kind sirs, do you fart?
Do you eat?
Do you have sex or have at least ever wanted to?
Do you pick your noses?
Do you salivate?
Yes, you do. Although I may be biting my tongue about the sex thing.
Do you know who else does all these things?
How about...and do brace yourselves, it may rock your world...animals?
Just accept the fact that we're all (relatively) shaven monkeys in suits. The Church has.
Second, what's all this hate the sin, but not the sinner thing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're supposed to FORGIVE the sin and love the sinner. Which is, of course, nearly impossible and that's why you don't get a saint behind every corner.
And about the movie...People are just trying to get a message through to other people. There's a moral behind nearly every film, and there's supposed to be one, so what is all this fuss about anyway?
And for once, please READ the Bible (or any other piece of literature) before going all commando with big words like parable ok?
Oh, and don't put the blame of your ignorance upon yourselves...blame it on the Man, the system or God. We all do anyway.
The spice must flow!
Please use the term "cult" properly. Some 43% of Americans state that they attend church regularly. Cults involve secrecy and being hidden from sight.
I disagree with the aims and views of the Democratic Party, but I'm sure not calling a group a cult just because it doesn't fit my view of the world.
'Cult' also refers to anything "that is popular or fashionable, especially among a particular section of society". 'Cult films' include the two Star Wars trilogies, the Star Treks, and Breakfast Club, to name a few; these films have large fanbases due to factors such as: theme, their use of (then-) state-of-the-art technology and the impact they had on filmmaking. Basically, anything with a devoted following can be considered a 'cult' of sorts.
... ladies.
Someone's tetchy and has so little understanding of film as a medium that they don't get that the word 'cult' when attached to film is generally a good thing. Stop feeling persecuted, no one's tossing you to the lions.
-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch
One of the few hundred? LOL!
Thousands of sinners like me saw this before you, it's called Pirate Bay!
And yes, it does get preachy, and not in a subtle way. I didn't like it for the same reason I don't like most of Spielberg's later flicks (A.I., Minority Report, etc..) They try to ram their point home so bluntly it ruins the film. I like a film to make me think, not try to think for me.
- I have a giant soap box and I intend to smash you with it.
jmaccano,
Your view of Christianity is narrow and rather shallow. You believe that Christianity is exclusive and intolerant. Christ was intolerant of sin. He knew it existed, but he still loved those of us who sin (which is everyone). I can't speak for others you have met which have said "We love you, burn in hell." That is definitely not the message of Christianity, but seems to be what others believe of those who follow Christ.
You have to ask this question. If it seems that Christians are intolerant of someone's actions there may be a reason why. If we are intolerant of those who are living a homosexual lifestyle as if it were normal, perhaps it is because the homosexual lifestyle does not agree with what God says of it. We are to love the person and hate the sin. Intolerance is never of the person, but of their actions.
Also we do not convert you. That is not our mission. Our mission is to share with you God's love for you in sending his own Son to be a sacrifice as payment for the sins you and I commit daily.
Please consider more than just the narrow vision you have of Christianity before you judge us.
Scott Strohkirch
Cyber-five, Scott!
shareOk Im not taking the p!ss here I relly dont understand this bit,
"God's love for you in sending his own Son to be a sacrifice as payment for the sins you and I commit daily."
so because we do things god does not like he sent his own son to earth to chat with us a bit then god used him as a sacrifice to god??
Please consider more than just the narrow vision you have of Christianity before you judge us.
That's a normally reasonable request, except for the fact that it's coming from a person who embraces a religion that encourages its followers to feel no qualms about sitting in judgement of others not of that faith.
In all my years, Helloween (and all your other IMDB names), I've never met someone with as narrow a definition, and intolerant a view, as you. You are not a Christian, but you are as hateful and bigoted as you charge, if not more so. The very things you claim to fight against likewise come from you.
sharePlease consider more than just the narrow vision you have of Christianity before you judge us.
That's a normally reasonable request, except for the fact that it's coming from a person who embraces a religion that encourages its followers to feel no qualms about sitting in judgement of others not of that faith.
I didn't reject it, just pointed out the hypocrisy.
Revenge is a dish that best goes stale.
Hey there, just putting it out there but I was raised in an Irish Catholic family, went to a catholic school, been baptised, communionised and confirmed, went to mass every sunday and on holy days...then I started to question....what is the point of feeling all superior like we're part of something that has the right to diminish the views of others..."love the person but hate the actions" or something to that effect, why? Why can't people of all sexual orientations be accepted? Why should christians act so patrionisingly toward them...? yes you do terrible things, but that doesn't mean i hate you, I just judge you...that is a far worse approach and extremely hippocritical...as an agnostic(since I abandoned my family's views) I do recognise that many people react to christians with comtempt and the same intolerance that is seen here, but that's because intolerance begets intolerance, christians don't spread the message of love...they spread the message of join us or be shunned and smitted by our god...it's just a lie. If only people could recognise that beyond all the bull surrounding the omnipotent beings that they all worship we're still just people fumbling through life, nothing like the bible can tell us really how to live cause that's not living!
If nothing we do matters...then all that matters is what we do...
Loved your words. Thanks. Especially the last bit. Is that a quote? Sounds a wee bit familiar. Cheers.
Those would be part of my signiture(see below) it's from the t.v. show Angel...the spin off from Buffy...and thanks for the support...now to get the rest of the world onto the peaceful means of dealing with religious disputes...Also I'm Irish and formally Catholic so I liked the reference to the troubles up North, they're still going on, albeit quietly and it never had anything to do with religion, not really, it was political and about land ownership. I just sound like a great big history nerd don't I? Sorry about that!!!
If nothing we do matters...then all that matters is what we do...
Eh, just wondering which part of the discussion you're on? Christians or the side I'm backing(non-christians)? Those final words would be part of my signiture(see below) it's from the t.v. show Angel...the spin off from Buffy...and thanks for the support...now to get the rest of the world onto the peaceful means of dealing with religious disputes...
Also I'm Irish and formally Catholic so I liked the reference to the troubles up North, they're still going on, albeit quietly and it never had anything to do with religion, not really, I mean it began that way, cause the english came over to take our land for queen and country and persecute the Irish not just for being Irish but cause they wouldn't side with Elizabeth's religious beliefs, penal laws anyone? Those were specifically for Irish Catholics, they couldn't buy back land unless following english rule and Protestantism. even now some catholic kids were attacked on their way to school by grown adult Prods cause they were going to a Cath school...it captured headlines a few years ago...so while there are various reasons for the troubles, religion is a huge part still because it's so involved in political life and society.
Here endeth the boring history lesson!!
If nothing we do matters...then all that matters is what we do...
Just jumping in here but your Angel sig is actually stolen from a David Rabe screenplay for a film called Casualties of War wherein one of the characters says the following in reference to the rape and murder of a Vietnamese woman:
"Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than we even know."
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"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch
"You have to ask this question. If it seems that Christians are intolerant of someone's actions there may be a reason why. If we are intolerant of those who are living a homosexual lifestyle as if it were normal, perhaps it is because the homosexual lifestyle does not agree with what God says of it".
But your "god" doesn't itself actually say anything about Homosexuality, "Thou shalt Not Be Homosexual" is NOT a Commandment, one would think if God were so uptight about Gays, then it WOULD be one of the 10 Commandments, you know if it's such a big SIN and all... Instead you stuff about "coveting your neighbours house, wife and ox", well, God obviously thinks being a bit jealous of the bloke who lives in the nice house with the attractive missus and who gets a new ox is more worthy of being all "fire and brimstone" about than living a homosexual lifestyle, innit....ROFLMAO.... Homosexuality isn't one of the "deadly sins" either... The closest is "lust", but lust certainly is not exclusively the preserve of homosexuals, far from it.... So, tell me, what exactly IS your lot's beef with gay people...? Because it seems to me that your just using your faith as an excuse to hate a group within society who happen to be "different" to you... You dont much like Heavy Metal fans either I'll bet, the "devil's music" and all...
Sorry man, the whole "Christian" theory just holds no relevancy in the world of 2008, as indeed neither does Islam or Judaism, which are all basically just variations on a theme (all this petty arguing amongst the "great religions" of who is right and wrong, well NONE of your are right and ALL of you are wrong, because you all just spout the same bull, just in a different way, but hey, you lot just continue to kill each other over the semantics and small details, just do everyone else a favour and do it FAR AWAY from the rest of us who just want to get on with our lives in peace...).
We dont live in caves anymore mate, we dont make fire by rubbing two sticks together.. We dont worship the Sun, or believe the Earth is flat, or believe the sun sets into the sea.... ALL of these things were BELIEFS at one point in our history and development, we MOVED ON, we EVOLVED, we found out about these things just were not the case, and we found this out through the sciences of Astronomy, Mathematics, Anthropology and Evolution... Mathematics, nature and Science are the ONLY Universal truths, and these things have developed us as a species a hell of a lot more than superstition, "beliefs" and voodoo.... The Bible, The Torah, The Koran all existed in far more ignorant and superstitious times in order to make sense of the world AS IT EXISTED THEN, before science, before enlightenment... Things have changed...
But if you don't believe in science, might I suggest you stop using electricity to run your computer and internet and try instead to run it on your faith.... At least the Amish aint hypocrites, they actually live life according to the real Christian principles, and that includes shunning ALL modernity and have no interest in seizing political power to dominate others for their own ends.... I can respect THEM because they do no harm to others, "conservative" Christians and people like Sarah fuggin' Palin on the other hand.....
Sorry man, the whole "Christian" theory just holds no relevancy in the world of 2008
The ten commandments aren't the one and only source of law in the Bible. In the New Testament, Paul lists numerous immoral acts not specifically mentioned in the commandments.
... ladies.
damnit. i wanted to watch it but if its made by filthy Christians, nah.
[deleted]
"(I have religious friends, and they're great. Just not the religious part of them)."
So, this is ok, but when we say that we hate homosexuality, but not homosexuals, that's somehow narrow-minded and hypocritical?
Chuh.