Bush didnt even plant WMD in Iraq


these people into the particular conspiracy arent even using their heads.

Bush didnt plant WMD on iraq. theres the descrepancy that dooms the conspiracy.

they are suggesting these massive devious masterminded plans involving brainwashing,and cruise missles and secret demolition teams to knock down multiple buildings and hi-jack planes and so on and then we are to believe............

the actual reason for the invasion the whole pretext for all of this was left without any planning to cover their butts to have credibility.

doesnt work. it just doesnt. its a conflict.

the people who believe in the conspiracy are left with the undefendable notions Bush "didnt need to"---oh blah,these high level guys cover their buts. its CIA 101.

OR we are to believe Bush attempted to plant WMD but was unable to due to some circumstance---- another blah.

if you are going to allot devious planning to stage one... 911, dont suddenly switch gears and make us have to beleieve these same people had no plan for the invasion.the whole idea of the conspiracy was Bush or whoever needed credibility to go out and do what it wants in the world.

credibility is KEY. they would have planted mass amounts of WMD. it would have been possible if you are going to give them so much leeway with the WTC attack.

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He also after recruiting hundreds upon hundreds of people for the most elaborate hoax on the planet and pulling it off with incredible position, completely forgot to forge a link between the terrorists and Iraq.

So I'm supposed to believe that whilst planning and executing 9/11 as a 100% inside job he completely forgot to include the two major and infinitely easier parts of the conspiracy.

Ha, come on!

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Yeah, it would have been a lot easier to plant WMD in Iraq than orchestrate 9/11 especially given Saddam's past record, everyone would have believed it. You don't even have to plant WMD, a few lorry loads of the raw materials or precursors needed to manufacture chemical weapons would have been enough.

The reason why they didn't do this is very simple, it's impossible to keep something like this a secret. You just wouldn't take the risk because the penalty for being found out would be severe. Same goes for 9/11 only more so.

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It isnt about Irak solely, its about fighting terrorism all over the world for a long time. Thats what 9/11 was for.

We are supposed to believe terrorists are around the corner and could strike whenever wherever they want.

Well the planners of 9/11 sure got their way.

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It isnt about Irak solely, its about fighting terrorism all over the world for a long time. Thats what 9/11 was for.

It's "Iraq."

We are supposed to believe terrorists are around the corner and could strike whenever wherever they want.

Well the planners of 9/11 sure got their way.


Yes Zagorin, that's why they're called TERRORists.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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How easy u are fooled people.

Tell me, do you know any muslims personally?

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How easy u are fooled people.

Zagorin, you've drunk the truther kool aid. You've already admitted no evidence would change your mind. Being a truther is a religion to you. It's entirely faith-based.

Tell me, do you know any muslims personally?

Sure, I know two. Why? What difference does that make? Do you know any muslims?



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Im living among them.

Holland has 180 different nationalities living here.

Now talk to them if you have more than a superficial relationship with them and

get to know their opinion on taking over the world by the fundamentalists, if we should be afraid about terrorists around every corner and how many muslims share the idea of the fundamentalists.

Talk to the 'other side' and educate yourself.

You will see we are being brainwashed by our goverments to believe we have to fear the Islam because it wants to destroy the western world.

You will find that a massive majority of the muslims dont want anything to do with the sharia.

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Im living among them.

Holland has 180 different nationalities living here.


Muslim (or Islam more appropriately) is a religion, not a nationality. You continue to expose your ignorance.

Now talk to them if you have more than a superficial relationship with them and

get to know their opinion on taking over the world by the fundamentalists, if we should be afraid about terrorists around every corner and how many muslims share the idea of the fundamentalists.


I have no problem whatsoever with muslims. One of my best friends is muslim and he's a terrific guy. He's disgusted by the fundamentalists.

Talk to the 'other side' and educate yourself.

Already have. You might want to start doing that yourself though.

You will see we are being brainwashed by our goverments to believe we have to fear the Islam because it wants to destroy the western world.

Good lord, you are paranoid. No one I know fears Islam. No one I know is mistrustful of muslims. Grow up.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Man u are a moron.

With the different nationalities come different religions, do I have to draw it for you?

Thats good to hear, Kent. I would have expected that you would fear Islam because of 9/11. Thats what ur govermnent is telling us, that its around the corner.

In Holland we have stickers that say 'Holland versus terrorism' and they expect you to keep it mind every second of the day.

Cmon there are bigger problems then fundamentalists, would you say?

Like half the world starving of hunger but were selling em weapons.

Its all upside down.


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Man u are a moron.

With the different nationalities come different religions, do I have to draw it for you?


Is there a Christian nationality? Is there a Buddist nationality? No, they are religions. Being American, British or Dutch is a nationality. You might want to buy a dictionary at some point and at least try to make an effort. Debating you is laughably easy. You discredit yourself!

Thats good to hear, Kent. I would have expected that you would fear Islam because of 9/11. Thats what ur govermnent is telling us, that its around the corner.

The government is telling us no such thing. Please.

In Holland we have stickers that say 'Holland versus terrorism' and they expect you to keep it mind every second of the day.

What about that sticker says "Holland versus Islam"? It's you who are making the connection between terrorism and muslims.

Cmon there are bigger problems then fundamentalists, would you say?

Like half the world starving of hunger but were selling em weapons.

Its all upside down.


Well, it's just that the fundamentalists are the ones who came over here and attacked us. Someone comes up and punches you in the face and your reaction is what? To go make a sandwich for a hungry person?

Helping starving people is great and it's something everyone should support, but please.





No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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If ur sticking on setting me straight on nationality isnt religion, fine.
I havent said it was anywhere, I just presumed you could figure out yourself that amongst 180 nationalities there ought to be some muslims.

Ill put it this way, There are 85.000 thousand muslims of the 600.000 citizens in my town.

Clearer?


Is ur govermnent speaking of others than muslims as terrorist?


So ur reaction is invade 2 countries and disrupt the complete social life?
And this because of 19 hijackers planning this from a village?



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Ever hear of Franz Fuchs? David Copeland? Baruch Goldstein? Meir Kahane? Timothy McVeigh? Terry Nichols? Ted Kaczynski? James von Brunn?

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Ill put it this way, There are 85.000 thousand muslims of the 600.000 citizens in my town.

Clearer?


Clear what? I didn't ask for census figures on your town. You referred to religion as a nationality. Don't get pissy because I called you on it. Grow up.


Is ur govermnent speaking of others than muslims as terrorist?

Yes they are. There are domestic terrorists who have nothing to do with Islam.

Clearer?

So ur reaction is invade 2 countries and disrupt the complete social life?
And this because of 19 hijackers planning this from a village?


Planning this from a village? What village did they plan this from?

Don't be ridiculous yet again. This was a massive effort that involved far more than just these 19 hijackers. And it resulted in the deaths of nearly 3000 completely innocent civilians.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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You disappoint me Kent.

You are implying I said there are 180 religions in my country. I would think I had come across a bit more educated than that.


Oh is that so? So which are the ones being tracked now by ur government?


Thats a good question, which village, which country? Does a nation bare responsiblity for those acts? Do you need to send your troops in there to get a handfull of Al Qaeda followers?

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You disappoint me Kent.

You are implying I said there are 180 religions in my country. I would think I had come across a bit more educated than that.


I implied nothing of the sort. Work on your reading skills.

Oh is that so? So which are the ones being tracked now by ur government?

Which religions? Sorry Zagorin, we don't track RELIGIONS for terrorism. We track terrorist groups. We don't profile religions in that way. Maybe they do that in Holland, but not in the United States.

I'll refer you to Tom Veil's post about domestic terrorists:
"Franz Fuchs? David Copeland? Baruch Goldstein? Meir Kahane? Timothy McVeigh? Terry Nichols? Ted Kaczynski? James von Brunn?"

These are all domestic terrorists. We certainly recognize other terrorists other than just muslims.

Thats a good question, which village, which country?

Yes, you said they all planned this from a village. Which one? My implication was that you had no idea how or where it was planned from. I see that I'm correct.

Does a nation bare responsiblity for those acts? Do you need to send your troops in there to get a handfull of Al Qaeda followers?

Well, I'd like to think that a nation would not knowingly harbor terrorists. If so, then they won't have a friend in the U.S.

Why do you even ask this question if you don't even think Al-Qaeda exists?



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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LOL ur impossible. I have to work om my reading skills...Do you even know what you wrote a cpl of posts ago?

Im letting that one go, cause u obviously have a short term memory.


I believe AL Qaeda exists and its a patsy for 9/11.

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LOL ur impossible. I have to work om my reading skills...Do you even know what you wrote a cpl of posts ago?

Im letting that one go, cause u obviously have a short term memory.


Keep on backtracking. You know what you said.

I believe AL Qaeda exists and its a patsy for 9/11.

Then why did you once said "Al Queda is a fraud."? Do you have a short term memory problem?

You also once said "Im not dismissing credible material"... then after I presented you lots of credible material, you said, "Well after seeing Tower 7 fall nothing can take away my doubt." So I guess you CAN dismiss credible material. Even if you didn't think my material is credible, you just said "nothing can take away my doubt." So you're also contradicting yourself.




No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Does saying 'Al Qaeda is a fraud' imply that they dont exist?

'In the broadest sense, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual.'


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Does saying 'Al Qaeda is a fraud' imply that they dont exist?

'In the broadest sense, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual.'


Do you even read what you write? So what you are saying is "Al Qaeda is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual."

So Al-Qaeda is an intentional deception, in your words. So yes, that implies at least that they are not what they appear to be. But you said they DO exist and they are just a patsy. Again, those are YOUR words.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Intentional deception as in being the patsy for 9/11.

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Intentional deception as in being the patsy for 9/11.

Okay, so we're changing the definition of "intentional deception" then?

Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself SO badly, it's not even funny anymore.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Well Im not bothered Kent, maybe u are for me, thats nice of you.

Fraud or no fraud in the absolute meaning of it, Al Qaeda is used as a patsy for 9/11.

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Fraud or no fraud in the absolute meaning of it, Al Qaeda is used as a patsy for 9/11.

And you've still provided no proof of that at all. Bravo. Keep up the good work of not backing up anything you say.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Heres your proof

No. You make a claim and back it up. You don't throw up everything you have and demand I read it all like a reading assignment.

The second article you posted makes claims such as:

1. "Stories quickly surfaced in the media that some of these "suicide hijackers" were in fact alive and living outside the United States."

Then, it lists an article to back it up that DISPROVES IT'S OWN CLAIM! The article is actually entitled "False Identities Mislead FBI." Are you serious, Zagorin!? Did YOU read any of it?

2. "This from grossly-incompetent putative pilot Hani Hanjour."

It has already been long established that Hanjour was a licensed pilot and was well capable of flying American 77.

3. "Not much specific information seems to be available on the September 2001 version. Fulton's "exercise" may have been a part of it. There also seem to have been other parallel or component exercises (Vigilant Warrior, Northern Guardian etc). "

There is a LOT of information about this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Guardian

So what? You expect me to go into all these articles and debunk everything?

Grow a pair. Make a specific claim and back it up.


No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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The links i gave you covers the whole storyline so about point:

1. They say 'stories quickly surfaced'. This is a fact but the stories have been disproved by later discoveries. Fair enough.

2. Where is it established that Hanjour was capable of flying the airliner?

Hanjour began making cross-country flights in August 2001 to test security, and tried to rent a small Cessna 172 plane from Freeway Airport in Maryland, though he was declined after exhibiting poor flying skills.



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The links i gave you covers the whole storyline

Yes and much of it doesn't prove anything. It just makes vague assumptions.

Where is it established that Hanjour was capable of flying the airliner?

"In 1996, Hanjour returned to the United States to pursue flight training,after being rejected by a Saudi flight school. He checked out flight schools in Florida, California, and Arizona; and he briefly started at a couple of them before returning to Saudi Arabia. In 1997, he returned to Florida and then, along with two friends, went back to Arizona and began his flight training there in earnest. After about three months, Hanjour was able to obtain his private pilot's license. Several more months of training yielded him a commercial pilot certificate, issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in April 1999."
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-243.html

"Settling in Mesa, Hanjour began refresher training at his old school,Arizona Aviation. He wanted to train on multi-engine planes, but had difficulties because his English was not good enough.The instructor advised him to discontinue but Hanjour said he could not go home without completing the training. In early 2001, he started training on a Boeing 737 simulator at Pan Am International Flight Academy in Mesa.An instructor there found his work well below standard and discouraged him from continuing.Again, Hanjour persevered; he completed the initial training by the end of March 2001."
http://www.faqs.org/docs/911/911Report-244.html

"FBI agents have questioned and administered a lie detector test to one of Hanjour's instructors in Arizona who was an Arab American and had signed off on Hanjour's flight instruction credentials before he got his pilot's license.
That instructor said he told agents that Hanjour was "a very average pilot, maybe struggling a little bit." The instructor added, "Maybe his English wasn't very good."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/10/attack/main508656.shtml

And one of his own flight instructors (Marcel Bernard) said, "Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said."
http://www.911myths.com/html/flight_school_dropouts.html

So Hanjour wasn't a great pilot. He didn't have to be. See here:
As I've explained in at least one prior column, Hani Hanjour's flying was hardly the show-quality demonstration often described. It was exceptional only in its recklessness. If anything, his loops and turns and spirals above the nation's capital revealed him to be exactly the *beep* pilot he by all accounts was. To hit the Pentagon squarely he needed only a bit of luck, and he got it, possibly with help from the 757's autopilot. Striking a stationary object -- even a large one like the Pentagon -- at high speed and from a steep angle is very difficult. To make the job easier, he came in obliquely, tearing down light poles as he roared across the Pentagon's lawn.

It's true there's only a vestigial similarity between the cockpit of a light trainer and the flight deck of a Boeing. To put it mildly, the attackers, as private pilots, were completely out of their league. However, they were not setting out to perform single-engine missed approaches or Category 3 instrument landings with a failed hydraulic system. For good measure, at least two of the terrorist pilots had rented simulator time in jet aircraft, but striking the Pentagon, or navigating along the Hudson River to Manhattan on a cloudless morning, with the sole intention of steering head-on into a building, did not require a mastery of airmanship. The perpetrators had purchased manuals and videos describing the flight management systems of the 757/767, and as any desktop simulator enthusiast will tell you, elementary operation of the planes' navigational units and autopilots is chiefly an exercise in data programming. You can learn it at home. You won't be good, but you'll be good enough.

"They'd done their homework and they had what they needed," says a United Airlines pilot (name withheld on request), who has flown every model of Boeing from the 737 up. "Rudimentary knowledge and fearlessness."

"As everyone saw, their flying was sloppy and aggressive," says Michael (last name withheld), a pilot with several thousand hours in 757s and 767s. "Their skills and experience, or lack thereof, just weren't relevant."

"The hijackers required only the shallow understanding of the aircraft," agrees Ken Hertz, an airline pilot rated on the 757/767. "In much the same way that a person needn't be an experienced physician in order to perform CPR or set a broken bone."

That sentiment is echoed by Joe d'Eon, airline pilot and host of the "Fly With Me" podcast series. "It's the difference between a doctor and a butcher," says d'Eon.
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/05/19/askthepilot186/

Experienced pilot Giulio Bernacchia agrees:
"In my opinion the official version of the fact is absolutely plausible, does not require exceptional circumstances, bending of any law of physics or superhuman capabilities. Like other (real pilots) have said, the manoeuvres required of the hijackers were within their (very limited) capabilities, they were performed without any degree of finesse and resulted in damage to the targets only after desperate overmanoeuvring of the planes. The hijackers took advantage of anything that might make their job easier, and decided not to rely on their low piloting skills. It is misleading to make people believe that the hijackers HAD to possess superior pilot skills to do what they did."
http://www.911myths.com/Another_Expert.pdf





No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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A lot of experienced pilots disagree he could have flown it into the Pentagon like he did.

Their best guess is remote control.

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A lot of experienced pilots disagree he could have flown it into the Pentagon like he did.

And I just showed you a number of examples of pilots who disagree. And you don't bother to show me anything.

Their best guess is remote control.

There's no evidence that a Boeing has been or could be modified for remote control.

Also:
"Unmanned planes have proved invaluable in military operations, but their accident rate has added to domestic air-safety concerns. Predators, 27-foot-long propeller-driven planes which are among the biggest and best known drones in the Air Force, are used daily in Iraq and Afghanistan to track enemy targets with high-powered cameras and infrared sensors. Predators feed images to pilots on the ground or troops and are also equipped with missiles for their own attack missions. A recent report by the Congressional Research Service said their accident rate is 100 times that of manned aircraft, and noted that of 135 Predator unmanned surveillance-and-attack planes delivered and used in military operations, 50 have been lost and 34 more have had serious accidents.

To be sure, combat is different from commercial flight, but Air Force officials say that all of the crashes so far were the result of malfunctions or errors by pilots who are often as far away as Nevada and lack the sensation of being in the cockpit."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115491642950528436.html?mod=todays_us_ marketplace

Not exactly reliable, is it? Seems kind of crazy to execute such a critical attack by remote control. And if that's the case, what happened to the passengers?




No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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[deleted]

[deleted]

How many "completely innocent civilians" has the US murdered in Iraq since 1990?
Were all these deaths "accidents" or were they the work of "bad apples"?


It's called a "war." It unfortunately happens. And I'm not a fan of the war either. Did we intentionally go over there to murder innocent people? No. Did they come here to murder innocent people? Yes. Read Bin Laden's fatwa.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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[deleted]

Did you intentionally go over there to murder innocent people? YES.
Why on Earth would anyone think otherwise?


No we did not. I'm sorry you are so poorly informed. If you believe we went over there to kill innocent women and children, then you have a completely backward view of the U.S.

Who are "THEY"? Iraqis? I mentioned only Iraq on my previous post. Did the Iraqi army attack you on 9/11? If not, then why did you invade and destroy Iraq?

I was referring to the terrorists from 9/11, since that is what most of these topics are about. No, Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11, so that statement was an error on my part.

You mean that guy that you still haven't found the necessary incriminating evidence to officially prove he was responsible for 9/11?

The evidence linking Bin Laden to 9/11 is quite vast. Again, I'm sorry you're so poorly informed.

An Al-Qaeda statement justifying the attacks:
http://www.mepc.org/journal_vol10/alqaeda.html

Al Qaeda released a tape lauding the hijackers involved, all as named by the US:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/16/september11.usa2

A claim of responsibility before the anniversary of the attacks:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2002-09/10/article02.shtml

Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed explained how they planned the attacks to Al Jazeera:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/08/60II/main524794.shtml

Bin Ladin in 2004:
http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/1964.cfm

in 2006 they tried to tell us that Moussaoui had no part in 9/11, explaining Ihat Bin Ladin picked the hijackers himself:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006 052301262.html

JICI document indicated Bin Laden's intentions to strike within the U.S.:
[urlhttp://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/defense/538G.pdf[/url

Operation Bojinka - the precurser to 9/11:
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/03/11/gen.phil.ter ror.blueprint/?related

FBI statement that evidence linking Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda is clear and irrefutable:
http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/watson020602.htm

So yeah...

How is OsamaBL related with Iraq? I mentioned only Iraq on my previous post.

You jumped in the middle of a conversation I was having with someone else on 9/11. Try to keep up in you're going to join the debate.

No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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You've been killing Muslims non-stop for the last twenty years.

Bullsh!t.

The US went over there and attacked them FIRST!

When did we do that? Never did we attack first. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, we went over at the request of Saudi Arabia. Again, Iraq ATTACKED first. We intervened at the request of a neighboring country that was afraid of being invaded.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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[deleted]

So you admit you attacked Iraq first.
Has Iraq ever attacked the United States of America, YES or NO?
Have the United States of America ever attacked Iraq, YES or NO?
These are simple YES/NO questions.


Did Iraq attack us? No. Did we attack them? Yes.

Let me ask you something... Is Iraq a quiet and peaceful country or have they ever invaded another nation? And one other question... did the country that was invaded by Iraq request our help? These are simple yes and no questions.

And by the same logic, we also attacked Germany in WWII first. Germany never attacked us. So since you are vilifying the U.S. for attacking Iraq, then you must be against the U.S. involvement in World War 2, correct?

How about when Iraq invaded Iran?

Did one of those nations formally request our assistance? No.

BTW it's not only Iraq. Let us not forget the Iranian coup (1953).

Yeah, the Brits didn't have anything to do with that. It's ALL on the U.S.
Please.

And the sanctions the US imposed on Iraq to force a regime change and Saddam out of the picture. The sanctions that did not harm Saddam even a bit, literally devastated the Iraqi people.

The United Nations Security Council imposed the sanctions, not the U.S.

9/11 was a typical case of blowback. The only country that is to be blamed for 9/11 is America.

Pretty typical America-hating response. Your ignorance is disappointing, but hardly surprising. You might want to do some research and inform yourself. Good luck.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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[deleted]

YES. Iraq has invaded two nations in the recent past :
-Iran with your FULL backing.
-Kuwait.

How does the fact that Iraq has invaded another nation help you make a case here?


How? Wow, you're a little slow on the uptake, aren't you? Well, it's not as if we just invaded a peaceful nation that hadn't done anything to anyone, did we? And I see you didn't answer my second question. The answer was yes, we did intervene at the request of another nation.

How many nations has the US invaded the last 50-60 years?

Who cares? Your belief seems to be that the U.S. is the ultimate evil in the world. It is not and I feel sorry for someone who is so misinformed. Yes, our government has gotten involved in actions I do not agree with. I don't agree with the invasion of Iraq. We never should have gone there. But we did not go there to murder innocent people. The fact that you say so just shows your anti-American bias.

Germany DID attack you first. A German U-boat sunk a US destroyer in the Atlantic, before Pearl Harbor. The US also declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor, and the Germans, being allies with the Japanese, were obliged to attack the US (see Tripartite Act).

We were aiding the British, the Germans enemy.

Boy, you're ignorant.

Check the mirror, chief. Your America-hated has blinded you. Please show me a statement where Iraq formally requested help from the United States.

Iraq invaded Iran with US help. Iraq also used WMDs and military intelligence the US provided to fight Iran - when it seemed the Iranians where getting the upper hand. So, YES. Iraq requested your help and you provided help.

You obviously can't read. Please show me a statement where Iraq FORMALLY requested assistance.

Iran also requested your help and you provided help. Ever heard the Iran-Contra affair?

Yes we sent arms to Iran for the release of hostages. It shouldn't have been done. The scandal was exposed and people paid for what they did.

Iraq also invaded Kuwait after it received assurance from the US that it would not get involved.

Prove it.

Iraq invaded Kuwait AFTER Kuwait started drilling in disputed territory. Iraq warned Kuwait that there would be consequences, but neither Kuwait, nor anyone else listened.

By the time the ceasefire with Iran was signed in August 1988, Iraq was virtually bankrupt, with most of the debt owed to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Iraq pressured both nations to forgive the debts, but they refused. Yes, Kuwait did employ a slant-drilling operation, but Iraq owed them a massive amount of money. Are you actually saying Iraq was fully justified in invading another country? And the U.S. is the bad guy for coming to their aid? Don't tell me that's your argument.

The Brits requested your help. It was the CIA that carried out the coup.

WITH British assistance. Since 1913, the oil industry in Iran had been controlled exclusively by the British government-controlled Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, the UK's single largest overseas investment. The ejection of the British staff of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) from the now nationalized refineries in Iran triggered the Abadan Crisis, bringing the UK and Iran close to war. Britain accused Mosaddeq of violating the legal rights of the AIOC and mobilized a worldwide boycott of Iran's oil that plunged Iran into financial crisis.

Since you seem to respect UN decisions enough to shift the blame on them

I'm not shifting the blame on them, I'm just correcting your misrepresentation of what happened. You said the U.S. imposed sanctions. It did not. The U.N. did. If you are going to deliberately try to be misleading, then I'm going to call you on it.

Did the Security Council authorize the US to INVADE Iraq and Afghanistan and depose their governments? Did the Security Council authorize the US to topple Saddam?

The U.S. did not require authorization to invade Afghanistan. I won't defend the Iraq War since I do not agree with it.

No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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[deleted]

I rest my case. You are an idiot. If you are really a teacher resign and go live in a cave far away from any intelligent human being, so that you might not infect the rest of us with your retarded mentality.

You want me to live with you? That WOULD be far from any intelligent human being. Listen, I'm truly flattered. I really am. But I'm spoken for. Don't cry. You'll find someone. Good luck. It might help if you dropped the crazy woo woo claims... just a piece of advice.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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[deleted]

You forgot to comment on the part I quoted you on.

What's to comment on? Not a thing.

I can wait. Take your time, sunshine.

That your pet name for me? Good imagination.

Another one bites the dust...

You remind me of Jerome. You make vague conspiratorial claims, get shot down, back nothing up and claim victory.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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WMDs are not potatoes to "plant" them. WMDs are the products of science and technology.

Now explain HOW exactly would one go about "planting" WMDs to Iraq without leaving any trace.


You realize it's not LITERALLY planting, right?

It's not that hard. If we're the ones hunting for it, all we have to do is say we found it! Seriously, who's following up behind us to check? The Dutch?

Honestly, you retards are quite amusing.

Indeed! Your post is the funniest thing I've read in quite a while!



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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"You realize it's not LITERALLY planting, right?"

Notice the word "planting"? It is in quotation marks.


Yeah, I noticed that. It was sarcasm, it just went over your head.

What type of WMD's would you plant?
Provide the manufacturing date, supplier, quantity/volume.


That is irrelevant. Provide a manufacturing date? Really? That's your response? If I was asserting that WMD's WERE found for certain, THEN you could ask such a question. But if you're asking HOW they could be planted, then such a question is irrelevant and a little silly.

I have already told you that WMD's are products of science and technology.
Finding a container of Anthrax in a cave in the middle of nowhere is not proof Iraq had WMD's.


Sure, in the middle of nowhere, it wouldn't be proof. But if a factory in Iraq had weapons grade nuclear material, then that would be a strong indicator that they did indeed possess such weapons. If another factory maybe had traces of anthrax (to use your example), then again, that would be a strong indicator.

To prove Iraq had an active WMD program you would have to interrogate scientists that in turn would confess they were involved in the construction of WMD's, find fully equipped chemical and biological laboratories, discover facilities and warehouses full of NEWLY produced (after 1998) chemical or biological agents or NEWLY constructed ICBM's that would have been used to hit the US.

Uh, yes, if you wanted to prove this in a court of law. But to justify an invasion based on the presence of WMDs, we wouldn't have to go to court first. Are you new at this?

Every weapon -from a revolver, to a ballistic missile- has a history, and every component of every weapon can be traced back to it's original manufacturer using the appropriate forensic methodology. If you transported lets say 20 tonnes of anthrax from the US to "plant" them in Iraq, it would have been impossible for you to explain HOW the hell did this amount of anthrax appeared in Iraq out of nowhere.

Records could be falsified. Again, we're not proving this in a court of law.

Last but not least, to PROVE that you were correct you would have to disclose every possible detail of every WMD you found in Iraq, and allow independent UN inspectors to analyze them.

Every possible detail? Are you part of the U.N. inspection team? Do you know this for certain? If so, please provide the documentation that shows this.



No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Either provide an explanation of HOW would you go about "planting" WMDs in Iraq or admit that it is not feasible.

I am a college english professor. Do I know the best explanation of planting WMDs in Iraq? Probably not. Do you? Probably not.

Tell me how to perform open heart surgery. If you cannot, then admit that it cannot be done.

Records could be falsified? And you're calling me funny and ignorant? I think you've been watching too many Mission Impossible movies.

Okay, so according to you, records cannot be falsified. Got it. I guess the 9/11 "official story" is completely true since records cannot be falsified. Glad we got that out of the way.

Lets say that the US produced a document that said Saddam possessed the ability to construct a nuclear missile (ICBM) to strike the US. It is a fact that Iraq would have had to obtain fissile material from another country.
Ergo, this falsified document would have to implicate a third country as the supplier of issile material that Iraq did NOT have...and to cut a long story short, then the SH!T would really hit the US in the face! Which country would the US falsely implicate? Russia? India? Pakistan? China? Germany? France?


Why would they have to obtain it through another country? Do you think they'd just go and buy it from the French government? Perhaps they stole it. Who knows.

Plus Iraq would need an ICBM to strike the US. Iraq never had such ICBMs. Also, everyone knows that before you actually launch such a missile against a real target, you need to test it first. The US, among other countries, has satellites that can easily detect such tests, yet no one has ever detected any such occurrence.

Why would Iraq NEED an ICBM? That would be the most difficult way to strike the U.S. It'd be far easier to develop a smaller size weapon and smuggle it into the country. Or to just develop a biological weapon or chemical weapon.

In other words, there was no way for the US to PROVE Iraq had a WMD PROGRAM unless Iraq actually had a WMD PROGRAM.

You haven't actually proven that. You've proven that it would be difficult. If you are saying it's absolutely impossible, then you are going WAY out on a limb. I'd conceed it wouldn't be easy, but it's hardly impossible.


No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Comments like the one above really damage your credibility.
Heart surgeries have been performed quite a few times, and have saved peoples lives. We know that, because that is a fact.


Wow. That went right over your head too, didn't it? Tell me something... what color is the short bus in your country?

Why go on and make such a ridiculous comparison?

Okay, so I'll go over it a little slower so even someone as dense as you can understand it. You were asking me (a college english professor) how one could plant WMD in Iraq. And you said if I (a college english professor) could not explain exactly how it could be done, then it COULD NOT BE DONE BY ANYONE. Tell me how I (a college english professor), would know all the nuances of exactly how to do such a thing? And how could I (a college english professor) apparently be the ultimate authority on it? Because if I couldn't do it, then it can't be done (your words not mine).

So I make the comparison of performing open heart surgery... it's the same thing! If you, and I'm assuming you are not a cardiothoracic surgeon, could not perform an open heart surgery (as a lay person who is not familiar with any of the techniques, JUST LIKE I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of falsifying evidence of intelligence activities and WMDS), then open heart surgery could not be performed by ANYONE!

DO you get it now? If you like, I could break it down into a little puppet show and put it on youtube for you to see. There'd be a lot of bright shiny colors to keep you entertained. Let me know. I'd be happy to help you learn.

I'm not the one supporting the US could falsify documents or "plant" weapons in Iraq, so I don't have to prove anything.

That's partially true. You have said that it's IMPOSSIBLE to do, which IS making a claim. But when you asked for proof that it was possible, you asked for manufacturing dates and exact descriptions of material. Which is silly. Because that's not proving it's possible, it's proving that it was done. Then you asked for the kind of evidence that you'd need to present in a court of law... which wouldn't be the case. So you don't seem to understand what a reasonable standard of evidence would be. That suggests to me that you're pretty unfamiliar with critical thinking.

As far as the people that support 9/11 was an inside job, they have presented their case and have a lot of engineers, demolition experts, and architects that agree with them.

That is quite untrue, as I hope you know.

Who have you got that is willing to support the US could "plant" WMDs in Iraq? Care to give us the names of a few experts or military/political analysts maybe?

Not really. I don't know of anyone who'd be so silly to say it's impossible to do though. Do you know of anyone?

FYI I'm not one of them, but looking at your weak rhetoric all around and after reading posts such as yours and OPs I'm starting to believe your case is pretty weak.

So you're not one of "them" (one who supports the inside job theory), but you do believe that there are a lot of engineers, demolitions experts and architects that agree with them? Wow. The extent to which you are woefully ignorant is truly staggering. I assume you're one of those individuals who's too lame to put their nickle down. Not too surprising given your attitude.

What kind of records were -allegedly- falsified in 9/11?

Please.

Are you for real?

Are you?

Again, I remind you that 9/11 "truth movement" has presented a case and have posed valid debatable arguments supported by experts.

You make this statement, yet you are not one of "them." This statement is a ridiculous lie.

You clearly ARE one of them, but you know that any debate you'd get into with me you'd lose badly because there is no debatable argument yuo could win and no credible experts to back it up. So you dodge getting into a debate about the issue by saying you are not one of "them."

So lame. Move along and stop wasting everyone's time.





No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Let me use your analogy to put this issue at rest once and for all.

YOU claiming the US can PROVE there were WMDs where...


No FuzzyWuzzy. That isn't what you said. You said "Either provide an explanation of HOW would you go about "planting" WMDs in Iraq or admit that it is not feasible." Then I went into my analogy, which was quite accurate and apt. It's not my fault you have poor reading skills.

Secondly, I simply admitted there is an ongoing debate about WHO was responsible for 9/11. And you infer from this that I think the US government planned 9/11? And you are an English teacher? Your reasoning is childish.

Not at all. For one, there really isn't any reasoned debate going on about who was responsible. There hasn't been for years. Secondly, you made the comments:

As far as the people that support 9/11 was an inside job, they have presented their case and have a lot of engineers, demolition experts, and architects that agree with them.

and...

Again, I remind you that 9/11 "truth movement" has presented a case and have posed valid debatable arguments supported by experts.


Both of these statements are very easily defeated with a small amount of research. So it's pretty easy to reason that you have the same belief. If you didn't, you'd never make the statements because you'd be better informed. Which you aren't.

You want to know where I stand on this issue? Have a look at Chomsky's response, when he was asked if he thought the Bush administration planned and executed 9/11.

I know what Chomsky said. Are you capable of having an original thought of your own?

I believe that people should inquire more about the motives i.e. WHY 9/11 happened? And WHY it happened in the US? Could it be because the US has meddled with Iran, Iraq, and Palestine (among other countries) and has caused suffering to millions of people? Geez, you think?

If you read Bin Laden's fatwa, you have a pretty good idea of why it happened (even though the fatwa came several years before 9/11). Combine that with radical fundamentalists and you have a recipe for disaster.

Even if there was proof Bush himself placed the explosives in the WTC there is no way in hell an American president would be dragged to court, found guilty for murder and left to rot in jail along with most of his high ranking staff that allegedly conspired with him. It would have been a worldwide humiliation for the US, and would absolutely destroy your international credibility. For good.

You have no idea of how badly the Democrats wanted to do just that while Bush was in office. Yes, it would have been humiliating, but that wouldn't have stopped anyone from doing it.

What I think is that this 9/11 debate has served Bush and his merry gang of thugs go on with THEIR war while you bickered and barked about WHO did 9/11.
WHY is the question. Not WHO. Who cares who did it?


Yeah, you're right. No one cares about WHO committed a crime. If someone robs me and steals everything in my house, I don't want to know who did it. I want to know why. Is it because they wanted to sell everything I owned? Is that it? Oh good. Now I know. Yeah, the who isn't important. Criminals and terrorists should be allowed to get away with these things as long as we know why they did them. If anyone ever kills my family, I'll be happy to not press charges as long as they leave a note explaininig why they did it.

My god, you are the most deluded and ridiculous poster I've seen in a while. I thought Zagorin was beyond all hope. You are truly more hopeless than he is.


No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Oh, Fuzzy's trolling you now? I say "troll" because such incoherency has got to be an act.

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Oh, Fuzzy's trolling you now? I say "troll" because such incoherency has got to be an act.

Yeah, that makes sense. No one resides at this level of lame and clueless.


No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Geez Fuzzy, you're so incapable of original thought, you posted the same thing twice.

Well done. You just copied yourself.

No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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Everybody's thought:
Shut it

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Everybody's thought : WOW! America really deserved to be attacked on 9/11.
Actually, America deserves much worse - maybe a nuke? That would be sweet.


That's EVERYBODY'S thought, huh? You are a disturbed individual to think that a nuclear device killing millions of Americans would be "sweet".

CKent2 says :
3000 criminals dead. RIP (Rot in Piss) 9/11 victims.


I, of course, did not say that.


No way the girl in the pics is her since I slam girls like that on the weekends-Jerome66

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