Problems with film.


Hey Guys,

I hate to be the bad guy here. The film was somewhat enjoyable. But...

All of these ideas have been expressed before. Didn't Camille Paglia write a whole book on the themes in "The Birds"? I think Susan Sontag also wrote a whole book on "Vertigo". Maybe I have the names wrong, but all of these movies have been analyzed to death, in much greater lengths. What is the point of this?

I mean "City Lights"? This movie has been dissected a million times. "You can see Now?" "Yes I can see". This ending has been talked about for ages.

What is Zizek adding to the analysis that already exists?

Analyzing "Alien" and "Return of the Sith" seemed juvenile. Those are both bad movies.

And Tarkovsky? There are books on the guy, what is Zizek adding to what we already have?

The only movie that seemed interesting was "Blue". Because it is relatively new, I don't think there is that much analysis available. Other than that I knew about everything he was referring to, and I don't consider myself a cinephile.

Would someone who really knows about movies get anything out of this that is new?

Roman

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I think what Zizek has to offer in his approach to these much discussed films are his psychoanalytical preoccupations: subjects like the gaze, subjectivity, the abyss of the other, partial autonomous objects, the relationships between the real and the imaginary, the structure of the Freudian human subject (superego, ego, id), etc.

Films like Vertigo and The Birds, to name just two, are so rich in meaning that it can never be enough to simply say 'well, there's been a couple of books written about them already, so that's enough.'. There are probably thousands, if not tens of thousands of books about Hamlet and more being written as we speak. Different people and different generations find new things to say about important works, so I think there's plenty of room for Zizek's intervention.

It's partial, too short and somewhat obsessional but I found his approach is fascinating, entertaining and thought provoking. And in addition to the famous films you mention, there are revelations too, like his inclusion of the 1931 film 'Possession' in the opening few minutes.

I think it will be a sad day when film scholars agree that there is nothing more to be said about Tarkovsky or Hitchcock and in many ways you can see this documentary as more of an introduction to psychoanalytical themes than a guide to the films in question. You might argue that the title is therefore misleading but that's just Zizek for you. He's always amusing and provocative. And his analyses of The Conversation and the Lynch movies are very illuminating I think. The whole thing is beautifully staged and directed as well and for these reasons I think the film more than earns its place.

All the best.

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Just by saying that 'Alien' is a bad film I refuse to accept your opinion.

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I second that.

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So you're saying I need to watch Alien again? I haven't seen it since about 10 years ago. I always thought it was Jaws in space. But, you guys are saying otherwise.

Thanks for the tip.

Roman

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Yeah, Alien is a classic.
I think Pervert's Guide is incredibly worthwhile, because it's like a condensed notes analysis of Lynch and Hitchcock films, and others.
When I watch Lynch movies, I usually come away wanting to understand what I have just seen a bit more than I do. Pervert's Guide helps with this understanding in an entertaining way. The host is quirky but brilliant, and holds my attention throughout. The choice of films explored shows just how film savvy the makers of this thing are...the conversation, fight club, vertigo, mullholland drive etc etc...all very satisfying cinematic experiences for a pervert such as myself.
Sure there have been books written on much of this material, but to have these films analyzed together in one doco is awesome. And because something has already been covered, doesn't mean it can't be improved on in the future. I don't see rehashing as a problem, but rather it's a familiar element of human existence, physically, and mentally.
I write scripts and for me personally, this film was invaluable.

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It's not Jaws in space, it's more like Friday the 13th in space. But it is chock full of disturbing imagery compliments of H.R. Giger, which is what makes it interesting. Bad script, good design and acting.

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Not a bad script, I would say an okay script. So-so. Nothing fantastic but there is some amazing imagery.

"Ass to ass. Ha ha ha ha. ASS TO ASS!"; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa5z77EI8y0

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Well by now I must be the Trillionth second to your predilection for Alien...fellow pervert...

...bar is closed people stagger out
the pretty, the crippled, and the proud.

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I think your argument is valid only if other writers have already explored the points Zizek has- I can't verify that as I haven't read all of those books. And I imagine very few others have. And this is where Zizek (and even the role of TV) comes in- to make these theories more accessible. Most people who watch this doc won't be clued in, and Zizek is acting as an Idiot's Guide to Film Psychoanalysis.

I haven't seen the documentary, so I don't know his point about Star Wars EP3, but I don't think his point is whether a film is good or bad, it's about their psychoanalytic attributes, about what's under the surface.

Alien is certainly more than Jaws, and worth re-watching. For me it's the perfect example of the modern human, living in its antiseptic and asexual environment, coming face to face with its id (I think at one stage Ian Holm calls it perfection). And hell, you could spend hours displaying how the creature and its layer represent the vagina, sexuality, etc.

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Zizek is not some film critic who makes value judgements whether the film is good or not, at least that's not his prime preoccupation. As a psychoanalyst and philosopher he's interested in what for instance the movies of Hollywood tell about western culture and what they tell about the subconscious fantasies and ideologies that are inherent in those movies. In his books that deal wide variety of subject from politics, philosophy, psychology to popculture etc. he has talked about Titanic, Sound of Music or even 300 (the Zack Snyder action flick) etc. as wells as those higly esteemed art directors Kieslowski, Lynch, Hitchcock etc. He believes that cinema tells a lot about the condition and the mental state of the culture where it is produced and consumed. So even a *beep* melodrama like Titanic can be interesting in that sense.

And about the question did he bring anything new? Show me the books that gives a lacanian-marxist reading of those filmmakers and their movies, other than Zizek's. I know there's been a lot of freudian interpretation of Hitchcock, but in this documentary Zizek gives interesting readings of Lynch, Coppola, Trier, Fight Club, Alien etc. and in a highly entertaining and even humorous as well as quite easily consumable way (many academic texts about movies are really boring).

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I have done something really bad and I should be ashamed of myself but I couldn't resist. I cut the movie in the place that I thought was appropriate to make this movie little better. You can look at it in YouTube under name: "The Pervert's Guide to Cinema (2006) shorter cut done by me". You could choose to put English or french subtitles. I explained there why I did that.

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"Alien" is a bad movie? The hell you say!


"Ass to ass. Ha ha ha ha. ASS TO ASS!"; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa5z77EI8y0

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"Alien, a bad movie" Well you lost me right there.

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