Does Natsuki like Shizuru ?
her feeling towards shizuru actually ?
shareI don't really know.
I can't tell if she's a lesbian or what.
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I: That's straight up gangsterrrrr!
B: It's gangsta! GANGSTAAAA!!
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MovieChat Forums > Mai-HiME (2004) Discussion > Does Natsuki like Shizuru ?
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Lol, so far a lot of the info you are providing seems to contradict alot of what I've read from director and character designer interviews.
And what you are claiming is speculation (Natsuki and Shizuru having kids...with men??). Also according to Yoshino (script writer), Mai Otome is entirely AU and reused characters are just homage to the originals with no specific connection. That's what the whole "Character Star System" is all about according to Sunrise themselves. You take characters and place them in a completely different stage as if they were actors taking on a different role.
According to the Mai Otome data books, Natsuki Kruger and Shizuru Viola are known to be an unseperable pair and loyal to each other in business and private matters. Even if and when they choose to retire, Shizuru had vowed to stay by Natsuki's side.
Here are some tidbits from the "Mai Otome Perfect Guide" (Still available on Amazon JP)
Hiroyuki's comments: No matter how I played around [with her character], [Shizuru] is the only one who hasn't changed. Natsuki is still her most important person while nothing else concerns her much. And as long as it is for Natsuki, she will do anything without hesitation. She isn't the type of person to be enemies with.
Natsuki Kruger (Taken from Mai Otome Perfect Guide):
Stats:
[Natsuki is] the Gakuenchou of Garderobe, which at the same time makes her the head of its special autonomous district. She is the second column of the 5 Columns by the title "Ice Silver Crystal." From her school days, [Natsuki] has been close to her irreplaceable partner Shizuru in both public and private matters. Natsuki has worried about her close friend Mai ever since [her story] is declared in the news. Despite her strong appearance, [Natsuki] has her awkward moments, including having been accused for disrespecting public morality and inappropriate public display.
More to come...
Ha Ha Indiana Jones reference. That was a lame surprise. Also I agree about the groping. If Haruka walked over to Natsuki and felt her up, she would have been kicked in the pool by Yukino Natsuki and Shizuru. It sure would have been funny 2 c though.
go ahead, struggle, i'll just make it hurt worse
According to the director, Masakazu Obara, the idea was that "love" transends all gender and there isn't supposed to be specific labels on love. So is Natsuki a Lesbian? Well while nothing states that, she DOES loves Shizuru...without having her own "label".
Also if you heard the dialogue in Mai Hime correctly (I suggest listening to the Region 2 DVDs), Natsuki uses "past tense" when she claims that she couldn't feel that way towards Shizuru. And keep in mind that this is before the end of the Carnival...then we fast forward to the end of the series where Mai asks (during the picnic), "It's a good thing to love, right? Both Mikoto and Natsuki both respond with a "yes."
He also noted that it was purposely left ambigious in the anime..in Japan ambiguity is something that native viewers tend to eat up. And this allows something a bit more concrete for future merchandise in the form of 2 Official Mai Hime animation data books that provide a bit of an epilogue between Shizuru and Natsuki hinted that during the day of Shizuru's graduation, their relationship progressed...again it was left ambiguous until you read Natsuki's backstory entitled "Natsuki no Prelude" which covers incidents of when she was in middle school, her encounters with Shizuru, why Shizuru decided to run for the SeitoKaichou position, Nagi's first meeting, and her actual Awakening as a Hime. The short novel ends with Natsuki reflecting upon two people...one was Takeda which she decided to send a letter saying, "Thank and I'm sorry." After she had sent the rejection letter to Takeda, Takeda himself was never able to muster a reply though on the other hand, she had thought about the "other" person and realized and decided that she would accept that person's feelings.
Keep in mind that these 2 volumes were conceived 6 months before the last airdate of Mai Hime which was in April of 2005. Since most of the materials were replicated in another country the turnaround time takes a lot longer plus the editing of the content itself took a couple months. They've included original concepts of the series as well so it's a good item to check out. Originally Shizuru was a 4th main character and Reito had a Child which oddly looked like Rad from Mai Otome. Though all elements are really just part of Sunrise's character Star System which they continue to implement in all incarnation of the Hime-verse.
LOL, I could go on forever but this would take long. If there is anything else that people need to know, send a message out to me. I've got every single Mai Hime/Otome data book so pulling out info is no problem. I'm in the middle of translating one of the interviews anyway...oddly enough I found out that one of the director's favorite characters is Shizuru while Hisayuki (the character designer) seems to favor Natsuki more over the two.
Anyhow in conclusion, does Natsuki love Shizuru? Well the answer is yes, as it has been confirmed...but in what way does she love Shizuru? See, this is where the studio leaves you guessing until you've purchased all the merchandise to find out....one can blame it on Sunrise trying to avoid the criticism and "frowning upon" by the (Japanese Ministry of Culture) who monitors the broadcast entertainment....at least printed material isn't viewed by the mass public...one must make the purchase and unwrap the product(s) ^_-
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"2) Yes, she vowed to stay by Natsuki’s side. Keep in mind, they could be perfectly straight and can be as close as Natsuki and Shizuru appeared to be. However, Shizuru clearly wouldn’t be the loyal partner if she had sex with Tomoe. Especially with the “I had some fun” line. The only other possibility is they have an open relationship(which the Otome manga KIND of maybe suggests?), but based on Natsuki getting jealous like mad crazy in the anime, I doubt this. "
Ummm...that's called sacrifice on Shizuru's part. She would do anything to keep Natsuki alive. You can't argue with the director also saying that Shizuru adores Natsuki. And if you listen to the drama CD's (which sounds like you haven't, it blatantly explains how Shizuru in her younger years (when she had first been slapped by Natsuki and treated very genuine by her, started to experience feelings of "koi"...also in the 2nd Otome drama CD which takes place after Nao and Natsuki were caught hitch-hiking, it has Natsuki practically confirming her relationship to Nao. Yukino was trying to find out Natsuki and Shizuru's true "relationship" and commissioned Nao to get answers. So Nao had pretended to "fall" for Natsuki and snuck into her shower stall. NAtsuki had thought that Nao ate something "bad" and assumed that she was experiencing the after-effects, but then Nao started groping Natsuki to which Natsuki herself yell, "HEY, THAT's FOR SHIZURU ONLY!!!!!"
There were other tracks in the CD as well like Natsuki Memoirs of her getting to know the "real" SHizuru and admitted to begin falling for the "real" SHizuru and not the "Pearl-otome" image that she willfully instructed. Shizuru inturn had her own track entitled "Shizuru's Memoirs" which also deals with her fated encounter with Natsuki and how she originally thought of Natsuki as one of her "fangirls." It wasn't until she tried to make a move on Natsuki that she realized that Natsuki truly respected her...and not for superficial reasons like her typical fans would. She was truly starting to fall for her....and just to add that this Memoirs track of Shizuru took place while Shizuru was in Tomoe's custody recalling her early days and present time with Natsuki.
She had concluded in her monologue that the note she had received in secret (Natsuki had sent her a secret letter stating that she would do all she could to save her since she was incarcerated) had truly, truly made her happy (you can hear the sincerity of her words when she says this and her voice begins to break as if she was tearing up)
"3) Question, do you understand Japanese? Or are you simply going by the region you watched? *Also, love isn’t just romantic.* "
Yes, I understand Nihongo as everything I have (anime-wise) is in Japanese. I used to be a translator myself....contracted with Bandai Entertainment a few years ago.
The kind of love that Natsuki and Shizuru have for each other in Mai Otome is the same kind of love that Shizuru had in Mai Hime....which is "Koi"....the director did NOT use "Ai". He mentioned "koi"
This is something that Masakazu-san had explained once. He basically wanted you to make guesses with Mai Hime (regarding Natsuki) but with Mai Otome it was pretty concrete.
I mean seriously,
The character designer himself had said that Shizuru is probably the only one that had not really changed from the previous incarnation and we all know from the previous incarnation that she had experienced "koi" with Natsuki....Hisayuki-san proved it once again that Mai Otome's Shizuru has the same kind of "koi" and wasn't someone to mess with when it comes to Natsuki.
However, if you're going to ignore legitimate documentation from Sunrise/Kadokawa then this argument is moot since you're probably another one of those "Generation Y" kids that believe in opinion over fact.
Let me know if anyone else has any other issues and questions...all I have to do is pull out source material. *sigh*
"4) Er, so they released a guidebook that would be spoiler crazy before the series ended? You must’ve worded that wrong because it appears the VA for Tate wasn’t able to get a role in Otome because he spoiled that he would fight in the end. "
What? Are you a dimwit? I said that production of a book typically last abnout 6 months....I never said that the book was released 6 months in advanced. The release date of this book after the release date of the last airdate. I had mentioned the turnaround manufacturing time because people assume that the added"epilogue" was just added in after the initial craze of the infamous "ShizNat."
Just my luck that this forum doesn't accept Unicode...ah well. So much for nihongo...
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Hi jp3183,
Yeah that's more or less what the dialogue was aiming for. Here's what I translated:
"I was someone who never trusted anybody. But then I came here and you were the first to embrace me. But...*I WASN'T able to reciprocate my feelings in the way that you wanted.* Still...I am flattered that you fell in love with me. I love you, Shizuru."
I'm pretty confident with my keigo since I have to utilize it within business matters but just to be certain I had my "work-senpai" listen over the dialogue during that time.
Also another thing about Natsuki's dialogue was that she was using her own form of "kougotai" which is typically casual/comfortable talk and sort of neutralizes both parties in the whole "hiearchy level".
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She's not a lesbian, she's a Shizurusexual, imo. Take a look at the booklet that came out in the 9th dvd called "Natsuki's Prelude"
here is the translated English version:
http://apollyon-0.livejournal.com/8637.html
To end the argument I'll post this segment:
Spoilers XD
Thinking about it now, maybe that time - maybe that first fight with Mikoto had indeed been the beginning of everything.
This bitter thought accompanied Natsuki as she stood on that cliff, on the one that had taken her mother from her, watching the huge star shrouding the moon as it glittered.
- What if we hadn't fought there, back then...?
Maybe if after her fall from that bridge she hadn't so persistently chased after Mikoto, to compensate for the wounds she had suffered at the girl's hands...
- Could fate change, I wonder...
But, thinking about that was no good any more.
The 'her' of that time had known nothing. Had not wanted to know anything.
Nothing about Shizuru's feelings. Nothing about Hime. And most of all, nothing about herself.
"Why such a bright young woman would do such deeds is beyond my imagination... But, Doctor Kuga loved you. If nothing else, that is certain."
Sakomizu's whisper, low and quiet.
To comfort, perhaps? That pitying tone of voice was irritating and yet strangely pleasant.
"I believe in the mother inside me. Therefore... it's fine now."
Natsuki smiled faintly.
What had her mother planned, relating with Searrs? Why had her mother fled with her? The truth, all of it, was below this cliff.
- Then, I will just believe... that mother was trying to save me. Even if that may be a false judgement...
"Perhaps it is because people have things they cherish... because these things are truly precious, they get lost, make mistakes..."
"... You may be right. Fujino-san too, she - well, fell in love, with you - and because you were so dear to her, she - "
Love. The emotion Shizuru harboured for her. When her feelings were rejected, Shizuru was shattered.
Love... To Natsuki, who had not yet truly desired anything, it was still all too remote.
No, the violent emotion Shizuru had shown, and learning about the feelings that both Mai and Shiho harboured for Yuuichi, those words even filled her with terror.
"Then I... don't want to know about love."
Why, this. Why did people desire someone...? And why were these feelings so strong, why did they hold this maddening power...?
Still, even while she dreaded the strength of these feelings, to be told 'I like you' - being the object of someone's affection, just this far, was something that made her glad, that much was certain.
"But perhaps... perhaps people are able to live because they love..."
Sakomizu's nonchalant words betrayed the feelings he himself held, even as they were blurted out awkwardly like this.
"Fu..."
Natsuki smiled.
Distancing herself from Takeda's feelings had been easy for her, and thinking about it now filled her with relief, and a little nostalgia. As the school was closed down, besides sending the leaving Takeda a short message - "Thank you. I'm sorry." - she had not been able to muster any reply.
But, for Natsuki, there was still someone else - someone whose feelings she must truly accept.
Even if she didn't fully understand, even then she had to try her best to answer.
- If that's the case, I have decided what path to take...
Even if she might not hold the feelings Shizuru desired.
Because she loved Shizuru – that was the truth.
"I pray for your good fortune..."
With that whisper, Sakomizu left.
She turned towards the cliff, perhaps to absorb his sentiments.
END Spoiler XD
Now as far as Shizuru with Tomoe and the fact Shizuru said "I had fun" you assume that Shizuru had fun having sex with her. One should listen to the otome radio drama cd that a poster had mentioned already, that really wasn't the case at all. It's very much the same idea as the infamous scene where Shizuru "raped" Natsuki, which she didn't.
It is up to the individual that watches it, and decide. Why was Shizuru Interested in Natsuki anyways. She was always hateful, and selfish. When anyone asks her a question she avoids it, but she wants info. I laughed so hard when her precious panty collection was destroyed. XP
go ahead, struggle, i'll just make it hurt worse
If one would actually take the time to watch the show (and even better the translated drama cds) and understand the character's motivations, one would realize why she's so "hateful and selfish." Official=Shizuru likes and is in love with Natsuki. Official= Natsuki returns Shizuru's feelings. It's really not hard, it's official proof, or common sense. In Natsuki's Prelude that was an official release accompanied with the last Mai hime dvd in Japan states that Takeda sent Natsuki a note confessing his feelings for her but Natsuki turns him down and reflects (on a cliff) how she became a hime. At the end of her reminiscing she says she has on person that she'd accept her feelings toward. Common sense: there's only two people that was interested in Natsuki, so if it's not Takaeda it must be Shizuru. See? Easy. I own the prelude myself, it's officially a licensed product of Sunrise, written by the writer of the anime.
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I know all that stuff. I just wonder why Shizuru would like her.
go ahead, struggle, i'll just make it hurt worse
I was referring to ssj4vegeta83, and your post about Natsuki being selfish, and you're right she is and I merely explained why she is what she is. But, um, if you knew "all that stuff" and are still asking why Shizuru would like her...it's really kind of duh obvious why Shizuru would. And there are many reasons why people and fans of Natsuki that *would* like Natsuki in general. (she's cool, bad ass and kicks ass, plus that ducati. And that she's trustworthy and genuine, and a good friend till the end) As for Shizuru liking her From the obvious hints in the anime and the two Mai hime translated novels, the drama cds and the omake that gives hints too, she likes rebels. Meaning she likes the attitude Natsuki is sporting, the "bad girl" in her. Ofcourse she is attracted to her beauty But it's more than that, in both the official mai hime anime manga doujinshi:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/justmyimagination/Plzbuymystuff/MaiHime-DoujinAnthologies.jpg.)
and in the omake:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq8m544Yx2c) she says that despite her rough exterior reveals a genuine innocent girl with actual feelings. And this is why I suggested you watch the whole series, since, you know, "knew all that stuff" to begin with. *rolls eyes*