Will it make it?


I am a big fan of System of a Down but I'm not sure that this movie will actually be loved by America. Are Americans really interested in the genocide? Who thinks this movie will make alot of money?

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Hopefully it will. But I expect good from the movie if it actually comes out around Canada because I really want to see it! If the movie does do good SOAD haters are gonna bitch all night on it. haha, anyways good luck to the movie and it's makers.

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[deleted]

History must be learned and humankind must know the truth about its unhuman past.
Today the Bush/Turkish powers are trying to hide the truth for the good of their business but one day justice will prevail and the gudge will say his word.
If we don't correct the mistakes that we have made so far this madness will continue over and over again. In god we trust and bombs away.
Nobody can silence the voice of the truth.
For every action there is a reaction. SoHm


[email protected]

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Well said but it looks like you got that from the triler. :D On this thread though, you have to answer if the movie will make it...

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Even gor a mere second, if we accept the alleged genocide of Armenians by Ottomans, thiis movie/documentary willnot make anything nither in the financial matters nor in changing and/or enlightining people's minds. Personally, I believe that genocide is a lie. It's just a disguise for the hatred between two counteries and countrymen. Had the Turks have a lobby as powerful as Armenians in world politics, we would be watching a movie by a Turkish director, traveling with a Turkish band which would be pointing the finger to Armenians and accusing them for genocide against Turks.

Finally, if i want to watch people bitching against each other, i wouldn't go to the theather for it.

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I don't think that monetary profit was the reason behind making the film, I believe it was made for the purpose of opening eyes in the western world to atrocities which still happen as much today as they ever did.

I just hope that it makes it to theatres in the UK, I'd love to see it.

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Hey sharaph I completely agree with you. I personally think the Jewish genocide didn't happen either. Your a degenerate.

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[deleted]

sharaph, you are a effing moron. Trust me, the genocide did happen. There is historical facts to prove it and many Turks admit that it actually happened. I myself am a descendant of the genocide.

I hate these retards that think they know something when they don't.

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First of all I've never ever happened to see that historical facts of yours, secondly to determine which historical events or facts or whatsoever constitute genocide and which are only criminal or inhuman behavior is not a clear-cut matter. Furthermore, in every case if there are accusations of genocide, partisans and nationalists and also idiots like you try to dispute the interpretation and "historical facts" of the event.
Can we also say that Armenians did the same crime which is the very crime they are accsusing the turks with. I don't need any historical fact or books for the Karadagh-Azerbaijan incident back in 90s. And can we call what USA did to native indians a genocide as well? And all the other examples from all over the world. what can we call genocide?
I dont remember who said it but here it goes : "If you kill one, it's murder; if you kill thousands, it's statistics" STATISTICS not genocide.

By the way; To people who can't tolerate the free speech and also to the ones which want me or my family to burn in hell, i can only say one thing.....
I'LL PUT THAT VERY HELL INTO YOUR AND YOUR LOVED ONES' ,errr, shall we say, WHERE IT DOESN'T SHINE.

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So you're saying that nobody should have protected themselves and should have sat back and died? What crime did the Armenians do? Protect themselves a couple of times? Is that what they did? It's called human nature!

An Armenian would never allow himself to kill a person the way turks(don't deserve a capitalization) did.
And if it really never happened, why would a famous and a smart Turkish writer say that it actually happened. You know who I'm talking about.

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Guys the real problem is not understanding what Turks say. Turks don't say no Armenians got killed. Similarly those people who you refer to as educated Turks also said "Hundreds of thousands of Armenians died/killed" I don't believe there was a genocide but I agree that many died/killed. Don't refer to Taner Akcam as a reliable source without knowing his past.

Just think, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians.... lived under Ottoman Rule for over 600 years yet when the empire dissolved they were Christians and still speaking their own languages. Then think of American Indians, Aborigines, French colonies in Africa. Do I need to list more? Fate is the same, killed, enslaved, converted, assimilated. And in how many years? So take this as a starting point. There's no such thing as racism in Ottoman Empire.

Let me note that 800,000 Turks were killed by Armenians during that period. With every single individual's name documented in the archives. Still people find mass graves full of Turkish bodies once in a while. I think the fact that all Armenian "documentaries" omit this concrete fact deliberately is denialism at its peak. Armenian losses get a lot more recognition from Turks you're complaining about.

If you take a look at the timeline, argument that Armenians were protecting themselves has no validity. Check Armenian Revolutionary organizations which were founded in Geneva, Tiblisi and Lebanon in the period 1885-1890. These were all backed up by France, Russia and Britain and their goal was explicitly states as armed revolution against the Ottoman Empire. There're many revolts, a failed attempt to assasinate the Sultan, taking over of Ottoman Bank, bombings in public places. Armenian bandits especially ambushed Kurdish villages and Kurds attacked back to the nearest Armenian village for revenge while often bandits would come from Russia, attack and go in hiding. So Kurds would kill unaware, innocent Armenians thinking that they were the ones who attacked. Sultan reacts disproportionately in 1896-1897 which is referred to as Hamidian Massacres, many rebels and many more innocent people get killed. While Armenian Revolutionaries claim that they protected Armenians against Hamidia they were the real reason to justify (justification in the eye of who ordered it) such an attack in the first place. In the city of Van, Armenian Revolutionaries set Armenian houses on fire to incite them against Turks. Mayor who's Armenian finds out that arsons were Armenian bandits and bandits threat him to stay out of this which leads up to his killing by Armenian bandits. There are tons of incidents like this. It gets even worse with WW1. Just one example.

"On 12 November 1914, Bogos Nubar Pasha suggested collaboration to the British authorities in Cairo with the following words: 'Armenians in Cilicia are ready to enlist as volunteers to support a landing in Iskenderun, Mersin or Adana. Armenians in mountainous areas can also provide valuable support; they will rebel against Turks if they are supplied with arms and ammunition.'"

So there's a whole plot of inciting revolts, making Turks and Armenians enemies which lived side by side for hundreds of years. After a point it goes out of hand. But why? Just think. Would you rather send your troops for fight or make locals kill each other? It is an easy question. And we both know there are a lot of examples in the recent history how this works. Otherwise why would it happen? The name Young Turks is just unfortunate and I'm sure a lot of ignorant people buy it with but Young Turks had nothing to do with racism, their cabinet had Armenian members as well.

Even the deportation order came several months after arresting of Armenian intellectuals (brains behind the revolt) hoping that within that period things would settle. But it didn't.

So comparing it with Holocaust or Rwanda or Khmer Rouge... is excuse me but just *beep* Neither of these were openly collaborating with the enemy for armed rebellion. Neither of these killed a comparable number of people who killed them. So calling what happened between Armenians and Turk-Kurds a civil war is by no means incorrect.

Before you talk about it please read and learn about it from both parties. Calling Turks denialists is just a simple way of convincing people that Turks just say it didn't happen and have no counter argument. I think rather than making propaganda movies, Armenian scholars should muster up the courage to face historians with opposing arguments in a panel or in a joint comission. Turkish government many times called for such a committee to be put together and issue shall be resolved by historians but Armenian historians never accepted. If they're quite sure they're right they should come up. I personally wouldn't avoid challange when I'm certain that I'm right.It is easy to convince the ignorant. So far it's the path they've chosen. Shame on them.





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Sharaph,

1. Educated Turks, like Orhan Pamuk, Elif Shafak, and Taner Akcam (who have shown that they really have something to lose) would disagree with you.

2. You underestimate the power of the Turkish side. See, they have actually convinced much of the world that it is in fact a matter up for debate when in fact it is not. They have essentially got the U.S. to believe the world is not sure whether the mathematical statement "a = a" is true or not and that we need to think long and hard about it and pour over the minutia to discover the truth. Luckily countries in Europe like France are not so easily swayed. But then again, they don't have military bases set up in Turkey.

3. As for the Karapagh conflict, I'm sorry to inform you, but yes as with anything else you do need historical facts to understand what that is about. But it comforts me to know people are so willing to pass judgment without knowing the facts.

4. And the U.S. vs. the Native American? Yes. Absolutely. There was an article in what I believe was the November '06 -- that would be last month for those of you who are still living in a time when brutal killing was trivial -- issue of The New Yorker (yes, THE New Yorker) discussing a book Taner Akcam wrote about the Armenian Genocide issue. The article itself brought up the treatment of the Native Americans by the Pilgrim Americans and concluded that Americans have a lot in common with Ottoman Turks.

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Arent Elif Shafak who wrote book named (Baba and pic) ?

Did you read that book ?

Nope ?

I read, There are no stable turkish character in that book. Every Turkish people had some kind of physholocigal problem ?

Why those books and views so biased against turk?

WHo support them ???

This will not work against us.

You say 3 name, I can give you 100 name also educated and has many more books than those 3.

Did you recognize them Educated TUrks also ?

No ?

Why ?

Before the saying bad Turks. Everone in this World have to face their sins...

US? Where is Native Americans? What happenet to Black Man before 1950 ?
European ? What About Emperialisim and Slavery before 1900 ?

Sorry guys, all your hands in full blood..

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"Before the saying bad Turks. Everone in this World have to face their sins..."

Absolutely. It is interesting that you go on to mention the US's crimes against Native Americans and Africans and African-Americans. The difference between the US and Turkey is that the US has admitted its part in these crimes and apologized. Turkey, on the other hand, still denies what it did.

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hahaha, you're such a ignorant prick it's actually funny.

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For one lets stop with the name calling here...

Second Seraph, how can you say Armenians didn't suffer genocide when there are pictures and documents saying that they were tortured, slain, and beaten to death. I don't see anything leading to the fact Turks were put through this. Armenians DID react and most likely they defended themselfs as Rwandans did in their genocide. Now Turks were probly killed at first before the genocide and this lead them to begin a mass killing. And to everyone, please keep this name calling to a minimum. If you can't say anything besides prick or *beep* then don't say anything at all!

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You just don't know it. You can find pictures of Turks beheaded by Armenians, little babies sticking out of their mother's wombs cut wide open. Even Armenian bandits posing with them. And believe me if more countries pass laws against discussing this matter. You'll never know.

Taking one step further Armenians killed not only Turks and Kurds but also Jews and Greeks (in Trabzon) in Ottoman Empire. If you do some research you'd see they were after serious ethnic cleansing so they could found the NEW Republic of Armenia ethnically pure. Here are some references if you care to read.

Stanford J. Shaw (1991), "The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the Turkish Republic", New York University Press, 1991, pp. 84.

Quoting from this paper "Several days of rioting and pillaging and attacks on Jews followed, with Armenian mobs devastating the Jewish quarter of the city, beating men, women and children alike."

Also see

Abraham Ben-Yakob (1978), "The Immigration of Iraki Jews to the Holy Land in the 19th Century", First International Congress for Study of Sephardic and Oriental Judaism, June 27, 1978

B. Braude and B. Lewis (1982) (eds.), "Christians and Jews in the Ottoman Empire", Holmes and Meier, 1982, pp. 185-207

Quoting from above

"the attacks were brutal and without mercy. Women, children, and aged Jewish men were frequently attacked, beaten and often killed"

Stanford J. Shaw (1991), "Christian Anti-Semitism in the Ottoman Empire", Belleten, Vol. LIV, No. 68, 1991, p. 1129.

I wonder how many Jews General Dro (Armenian national hero) killed with his 812th Battalion of Armenian volunteers when he sided with Hitler in WWII?

There's a lot of literature but they're not easy to find or write. Stanford Shaw's house was bombed by Armenian extremists while he taught at UCLA. Tactic is simple, propaganda, stop opposing argument from being heard, intimidate people who do not support you. And it seems to work pretty well. One day, I hope you'll start questioning the info you're fed. Wars made us question truthfullness of news channels which is I think a good start.

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////"If you kill one, it's murder; if you kill thousands, it's statistics"////
MILLIONS, not thousands... and Stalin said that.

/////"I'LL PUT THAT VERY HELL INTO YOUR AND YOUR LOVED ONES' ,errr, shall we say, WHERE IT DOESN'T SHINE"////
i have to agree with that... infact those people dont even know the very meaning of the word "hell"...

anyways, i do want to see the film because i am a fan of SOAD and every once-in-a-while i do agree with their points of views.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

OK "sharaph," im really sorry but your statements are waaaaaay far off. this movie was extremely accurate with its mentions of all those genocides, especially the Armenian Genocide. Do you think a country would randomly wake up one day and say, "Hey, let's go fussing about a fake genocide and blame Turkey for it?"

I think not. The Ottoman Turks DID commit this genocide and the fear of those countries to accept that fact is utterly outrageous.

Genocide is not a disguise for "hatred between two countries." Genocide is committed when a government annihilates a minority within its premises, and under the name of "relocation," moves everyone out. If you failed to remember from the movie, Armenian women and girls would have their breasts cut off, people would be raped, young children would witness the deaths of their siblings, parents, and cousins...its preposturous.

Here's a story I've heard from a teacher of mine:
On the death marches across the Desert of Der Zor, there was a mother and child. The daughter kept complaining about hunger and thirst, hunger and thirst. She kept asking where they were going. She wanted to know what was happening to them. Soon enough, her mother told her to sit down on this rock, while she would go get water. Of course, the mother never saw her daughter again. She left her daughter behind as to not witness the loss of her daughter.


THESE GENOCIDES ALL OCCURED. Armenian, Holocaust, Sudan, Rwanda, Cambodia, and Darfur...

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I am Armenian and my great grandfather and his brother were both in the genocide (what it exactly was). My great grandfather was sent out on a camel to die in the desert when he was 12, luckly the camel went the wrong direction and somebody found him. My great grandfathers brother went almost crazy with the things he saw. People called him crazy because they couldn't believe what he was saying, but now we know he was right. It was genocide and the only reason it's still a big deal is because idiots like you are saying it isn't.

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To bring the topic back on track I'll say that I believe people in general (not just in the U.S.) could not care less about the topic of this movie (which is a shame). I don't see it going as far as it should, especially since a lot of people still don't know there is an ethnic group called Armenians. I hope that it does well but I wouldn't put money on it.

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ikonoklastik, maybe a lot of people in the Americas don't know there is an ethnic group called Armenians, mainly because they don't know what's happening outside their continent, but in Europe and Asia, I'm pretty sure people know who Armenians are.
The Armenian Genocide is the second most talked about genocide in the world.

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It's true that many European countries already recognize the Armenian Genocide so in that sense I was probably being unfair when I said "not just in the U.S." I think even France was to pass legislation to criminalize the denial of it. But I think the movie's intention is to make an impact in the United States. And I guess the success of the movie is two-fold: whether it suceeds in making money and whether is succeeds in its purpose. Since it's probably low-budget I'd say it has a good chance of coming out on top financially when taking into account worldwide revenue. However, I think the result in the States will be that those who already agree with its perspective will hail it, some of those who disagree will see it and be very quick to criticize it, and most everyone else will not even know it is there.

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I agree with what you said.

BTW, France already passed a law to criminalize the denial of it.

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The Genocide did happen. You dont know the true facts about it, so your just saying things from off the top of your head, when you've lived all your life as an Armenian and heard the stories about your ancestors being tortured, then you know that when millions of people were killed it was indeed a genocide, no NOT thousand, its milions, get your facts straight, dont tell us anything when this is our history. The turks wanted to end the Armenian race, tried to burn our books so people wouldnt be able to learn Armenian, mothers left their children to save our Race, and I thank them everyday that im alive, ive been all over europe and when u mention ur Armenian they dont ask whats that, they say ohh my best friend is Armenian, Armenia might not be big, but Armenians are spread around everywhere, because when children lost their parents to the genocide they were in foster homes, and people from the US and Europe took them as their children. That is why are race is known all over the world, stupid people who dont look outside their race are the only ones that dont know. We dont need those kinds of poeple in this world. This movie will make it!!

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I'm not supporting neither the turks nor the armenians. (if capitalizations is a matter, this looks more fair) which concludes to the fact that I'm not going to bring historical proof or documents and also i won't listen to any bull****. There is no need to think about why western civilaztions support the people like Orhan Pamuk and etc. But there must be hell-of-a-lot educated turks saying genocide is ridicule. And why nobody knows these peoples names? I watched the teaser of the movie and all i could see was the extremist-nationalists in Turkey. To my opinion, any educated person with a right mind should be able to understand that this movie is missing the very foundation of its kind; objectivity. I don't care about its financial success, nor do i care about the impact to the people. Finally, me spending time with this forum and writing replies is such a waste of time. I care about THIS. I'm sorry for both sides and also pity them as well. but one thing comes to mind, maybe this isn't a genocide, JUST HUMAN NATURE.

turks=armenians
different races, same mentality.

W.D

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It's not the same mentality ass hole. Even when Armenia had power we still didn't kill people the way Turks did. Stop acting like a smart ass, when you don't know anything. I defined self-defence as human nature, not killing off an entire civilization. Another reason that you are a dumbass.

PS We already know there is a lot of educated Turks saying that because 99.9% of Turkey says that.

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turks and armenians are equally same in an argumentative way. Also the people who are claiming that they are the descendants of genocide victims prove this point. Furthermore all of the EU countries including some others as well which accepted this genocide are plain stupid. the reason is these laws were accepted in parliament without the help or authority of real historians. And i don't think they're doing this because of their sympathy to The armenians. I also read somewhere that turkey is counter-attacking these laws within the same ground. If you say there was a genocide you can face either prison or pay a fine. Same as frenchs but in the other direction. :) I also find these nonsense funny. As i told b4 i'm not supporting the turks but as this forum crowded with "clever-ass" armenians; i'm guilty of NOT-supporting them. anyway it'll always be fun to read some nonsense and reply to them.
If you kill someone and call it human nature, you must expect the very same. Don't you people see or at least try to find both sides arguments. I've seen a lot pics and docs from both sides. If you achieve the objectivisim you'll conclude to this small story.

Ottoman empire is crumbling by the forces within such as greeks, arabs, armenians, etc and also by outside forces like austria, france, italy... whils fighting outsiders, insiders try to grab whatever they can by any means necessary like killing people, torturing, burning. Then came 3 pashas you bloody sure know who they r. order all (careful not only armenians but all) non muslim elements out of main land. eiither with their will or by force. This ends tragicly because mostof them die of hunger famine, sickness or just torture and also ruthless killings. Overall it might look like a genocide but it isn't.

and one last thing if you google armenians and turkey all you'll find is just armenians facts, flip the coin see both sides and be persuasive maybe then you can find more docs and pics. until next time...

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If you kill someone and call it human nature, you must expect the very same.


I didn't say just killing someone. I said killing in self-defence. That is the reason you don't go to jail if you kill someone in self-defence, because it's human nature to not let someone kill you.

turks and armenians are equally same in an argumentative way. Also the people who are claiming that they are the descendants of genocide victims prove this point.


How do we prove that point?

This ends tragicly because mostof them die of hunger famine, sickness or just torture and also ruthless killings. Overall it might look like a genocide but it isn't.


Yup, and that's why they left the Armenians out in the desert with no food or water(which they promised).
What about the killing of the Armenian intellectuals on April 24th. Doesn't that give you a hint of genocide tendencies?

Edit: Try reading this
http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/armenia_talaatorders.htm

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Sharaph,
You're either a turk or you've been silver spooned your whole life. Which is why you don't care about anything. Maybe you need to experience some hardship. Maybe you need to see some hardship. The word "genocide" is in our vocabulary for a reason. "Statistics" is used in mathematical terms. "Genocide" is used in humanity terms. Didn't your home school teacher explain that to you? Go see the movie and then say what you have to say. Don't base it on a certain clip. The genocide DID happen. My grandfather was a survivor. I have many stories. Believe me, what the turks did to the Armenians and the way they did it to them is not human nature. It is the work of the devil. But then again, you may be a devil worshipper. I believe that God will give us our justice. Furthermore, if they spend some more money on P & A, it will definately make it. Good luck to you System of a Down and God Bless You for doing this. Thank You.

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INTRODUCTION

As a bridge between Asia and Europe, with its straits connecting The Black Sea with the Mediterranean and its geopolitical situation at a point where the Central Asian, Caucasian and Middle Eastern natural energy sources intersect, Turkey draws the attention of the entire world.

The Ottoman Empire in the past and Turkey at present has always been an arena for which intrigues were incessantly designed. The colonialist superpowers wishing to eradicate the Ottoman Empire from the world by dividing it did not fail to use in their schemes also the Armenians who coexisted in peace with the Turks for so many centuries.

There are today just like in the past, several countries striving to secure themselves political and economic benefits at the expense of Armenian community. Monuments accusing Turks and Turkey of having committed genocide are being erected in some countries; decisions intending to recognise the so called genocide are brought into the parliamentary agenda in several countries and even voted for in some others. Issues that need to be left to historians are turned into means of self interest by the politicians.

The Armenians who were ousted from one place to the other, pushed into wars, and treated as third rate citizens throughout the history by the Romans, Persians and Byzantines. After the advent of Turks into Anatolia, they benefited from the just, humane, tolerant and unifying traditions and beliefs of their new neighbours. The period that lasted until the end of the nineteenth century when the apogee of these developments and relations was attained, was the golden age of Armenians. In fact, the Armenians were by far the greatest beneficiaries of the opportunities offered by the Ottoman Empire to all industrious, capable, honest and straightforward citizens of the non-Moslem communities. Being exempted from the military service and to a large extent from taxation, they had the opportunity to excel themselves in trade, agriculture, craftsmanship and administration and therefore were rightly called the “loyal nation” because of their loyalty and ability to interact with the Ottomans. There were so many Armenians who spoke Turkish, who even conducted their rites in this language , who rose to topmost public service posts such as the Ministries and Under-Secretariats of State for the Public Works, Navy, Foreign Affairs, Finance, Treasury, Posts and Telegraph and Minting. There were some who even wrote books in Turkish and foreign languages on the Problems of the Ottoman Empire .

With the start of the decline of the Ottoman Empire, the European powers began to intervene in its affairs and degeneration became evident in the peaceful Turkish-Armenian relations. Great effort was displayed by the instigators whom the Western powers planted into the Ottoman Empire under clerical guise, to create a schism between Turks and Armenians in the religious, cultural, commercial, political and social fields. Thus, bloody clashes arose, in which the blunt of pain was borne by the Turks, and thousands of Armenians and Turks lost their lives in the revolts that broke out in Eastern Anatolia and spread all the way to Istanbul.

Though there were many Armenians fighting in the Ottoman armies against the enemy or serving in the rear ranks during the World War I, a considerable number had sided with the foes on the battlefronts and launched massacres against the population without distinction of women, children and the aged. Their toll was hundreds of thousands of Moslems and ruin in Eastern Anatolia.

The measures adopted by the Ottoman Empire to stop this violence were presented to the rest of the world under a completely different light and the Armenians, misguided by the promises and instigation of the Western Powers started to undermine the country where they had led a privileged life more than a thousand years.

The Hinchak, Tashnak, Toward Armenia, Young Armenians, Union and Salvation, Ramgavar, Paramilitaries, Black Cross societies and Hinchak Revolutionary Committee, which were established out of Anatolia, formed organisations urging the people for an armed revolt. These activities were the bloody uprisings that cost thousands of Turkish and Armenian lives.

During World War I, the Ottoman Empire was fighting against Russian armies in Eastern Anatolia, where the Armenian revolt was at its peak; and also against Armenian forces which supported the Russians. On the other hand, behind the lines it had to continue to fight against Armenian guerrillas that were burning Turkish villages and towns and attacking military convoys and reinforcements. In spite of this violence, the Ottoman Empire tried to solve the Armenian problem for months by taking local measures. Meanwhile, an operation was made against the Armenian guerillas and 2345 rebels were arrested for high treason. When it became evident that the Armenian community was also in rebellion against the state, the Ottoman Empire proceeded with the last resort of replacing only those Armenians in the region who actively participated in the rebellion. With this measure, the Ottoman Empire also intended to save the lives of the Armenians who were living in a medium of civil war because Turks started to counter-attack the Armenians who had performed bloody atrocities against Turkish communities.

Today, Armenia and some states using Armenians for their economic and political benefits have launched a massive propaganda campaign to present the replacement decision and the 24 April arrests as genocide to the world public opinion.

At the end of the World War I, when the armies of Allied States occupied The Ottoman Empire and the British officials among them arrested 143 Ottoman political and military leaders and intellectuals for “having committed war crimes toward Armenians” and exiled them to Malta where a trial was launched. However, the massive scrutiny made on the Ottoman, British, American archives in order to find evidence to incriminate these 143 persons failed to produce even the least iota of proof against them. In the end, the detainees in Malta were released without trial and even any indictment in 1922.

The United States archives contain an interesting document sent to Lord Curzon on 13 July 1921 by Mr. R.C. Craigie, the British Ambassador in Washington. The message was as follows: “I regret to state that there is nothing that may be used as evidence against the Turkish detainees in Malta. There are no events that may constitute adequate proofs. The said reports do not appear to contain even circumstantial evidence that could be useful to reinforce the information held by His Majesty’s Government against the Turks.”

On 29 July 1921, the legal advisers in London decided that the intended indictments drawn up against the persons on the British Foreign Ministry’s list were semi-political in nature and therefore these individuals should be treated separately from the Turks detained as criminals of war.

They also stated the following: “No statements were hitherto received from the witnesses to the effect that the indictments intended against the detainees are correct. Likewise it does not need to be restated that finding witnesses after so long a time is highly doubtful in a remote country like Armenia which is accessible only with great difficulties.” This statement was made also by none other than the legal advisers in London of His Majesty’s Government.

Yet, the efforts to smear the image of Turks with genocide claims did not come to an end as the British press published certain documents attempting to prove the existence of a massacre claimed to have been perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire while efforts were being made to start a lawsuit in Malta. It was stated that the documents were found by the British occupation forces in Syria, led by General Allenby. The inquiries subsequently made by the British Foreign Office revealed, however, that these documents were fakes prepared by the Armenian Nationalist Delegation in Paris and distributed to the Allied representatives.

The Armenian Diaspora, who left no stone unturned to keep the genocide claims on the agenda despite all these facts, resorted to terrorism in the end. The so-called Armenian issue, which started to attract the attention of the world and Turkish public opinion through the smearing campaign launched by the Armenians against Turkey after 1965, in the ‘70s turned into terrorist attacks directed against the Turkish representations abroad. In Santa Barbara on January 27, 1973, the first individual terrorist attack was launched by an aged Armenian named Gurgen (Karekin) Yanikian. He murdered Mehmet Baydur and Bahadir Demir, the Turkish Consul General and Vice Consul in Los Angeles, and these murders turned into an organised campaign after 1975. The attacks against Turkish embassies, officials and institutions abroad gradually intensified.

A major increase in the attacks was noted after 1979 when an internal unease started in Turkey. The Armenian terrorists staged a total of 110 attacks at 38 cities of 21 countries. 39 of these acts were committed by small arms, 70 of them were realised by bombs and one was an outright occupation. 42 Turkish diplomats and 4 foreigners were killed and 15 Turks and 66 foreigners were wounded in these incidents.

As these actions received a strong reaction from the world public opinion, the Armenian terrorist organisations changed their tactics in 1980 and began to co-operate with the PKK terrorist group which was pushed into the scene by the Eruh and ªemdinli attacks as the ASALA and Armenian operations were stopped. The documents and evidence from Beqaa and Zeli camps show that the PKK and ASALA militants were trained there together.

The success achieved by the Turkish security forces made the Armenian terrorism pursue the so called genocide claims through the Armenian Diaspora and attempt to make the world believe in the existence of such an event by inducing several parliaments to adopt resolutions and laws which recognise it.

The goal of these terrorists is to plant into minds of people the existence of a genocide, to force Turkey to recognise it, to receive indemnity from Turkey and, finally, to snatch from Turkey the land needed for realising the dream of Great Armenia

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What can I say? Very well said mate. This is so far explaining and informative than the my-grandfather-was-a-victim-of-genocide-crap. And also whoever thinks I'm a Turk should read this so they can decide who is really Turk.
This guys knows what he says, also with "historical facts and proofs". I've read the most of documents and he sums them all in this mini article. And they are all true. If you check who "Mimar Sinan" is you can see that he was armenian and non-muslim, but then he became the best architect in Ottoman Empire.
I'm glad to see that there's a sensible and intellectual person in this thread.

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Thanks and you are right about Mimar Sinan as well as many other non-Muslim Ottomans in the history who made amazing contributions to the art and science. By the way the the info I put is from http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/intro/index.htm, which is a site for collective historical information gathered against the allegations. Of course, some blind minds will also call it site of denial etc, but it's there for the ones who want to know facts.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say that turks only wanted to eliminate those who were against the Ottoman Empire. If so, then read the telegram sent by Talaat Pasha:

September 16th

To the Prefecture of Aleppo:

You have already been advised that the Government, by order of the Djemiet, has decided to destroy completely all the indicated persons [Armenians] living in Turkey.

All who oppose this decision and command cannot remain on the official staff of the empire.

Their existence must come to an end, however tragic the means may be; and no regard must be paid to either age or sex, or to conscientious scruples.

Minister of the Interior, TALAAT.


Again, read this:
http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/armenia_talaatorders.htm
Go to this site if you want to know real facts, and it's not made by Armenians.

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So I guess since you or some website says that Talat wrote this, then it must be true. Of course, same as my mails and references but since you guys are the accusers, I think it's time that you show some original, real evidence or stop making things up. There had been 3 trials (in Malta, and rest of Europe) after the deportation and all of them accusations failed against Turks because these so called telegrams nor any other evidence existed. Please bring your senses and think like a non-brainwashed person for once.

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Yes, just like there's no way to prove that they are not his documents.
There has also been another trial, concerning the murder of Talaat Pasha commited by Soghomon Tehlirian out in the public with many witnesses. And guess what? He was chosen not guilty by the jury, because they realized that Talaat was the reason the genocide happened and his whole family was killed.

P.S. Just because there's no way to prove that he wrote those letters, doesn't mean that we're making stuff up. Again, there's also no way to prove that he didn't write those letters. He just denied writing them.

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RELOCATION
THE TELEGRAM ATTRIBUTED TO TALAT PASHA

One of the most significant Armenian allegations regarding the immigration implementations is the telegrams, which —also allegedly- contained Talaat Pasha’s orders for killing the Armenians. However, Talaat Pasha himself has expressed in number of occasions that the measures taken with regard to Armenians have no object of massacring them in any way. In fact; in a cryptic telegraph —communiqué wired on August 29, 1915 to the Governors of Hüdaverdigar, Ankara, Konya, Izmit, Adana, Maras, Urfa, Halep, Zor, Sivas, Kütahya, Karesi, Nigde, Mamuretülaziz, Diyarbekir, Karahisar-i Sahib, Erzurum and Kayseri Provinces and sub-Provinces; the purpose of the immigration was explained as the follows (1).

“The purpose of the Government regarding the moving of Armenians from their original settlements is to prevent their anti-governmental actions; and to discourage their ambitions of establishing an Armenian State. Their massacre is completely out of question; on the contrary the safety of the groups during immigration should be ensured; and while measures for their catering should be taken, the “Immigrants Allocation” should be used to meet the cost. Armenians who are allowed to stay in their original settlements should not be re-located afterwards. As it was stated before the immigration of the dependents of military forces; protestant and catholic Armenians; and artisans (in accordance with the need) are definitely prohibited by the Government severe legal measures. Against the gendarmes and government officials who attack the immigrating groups or those who lead such attacks severe legal measures should be taken and such individuals should immediately Court-Martialled. Relevant provincial and sub-provincial authorities shall be held responsible for such events.

In another cryptic note sent to Ankara on May 27 1915 it was said that; “The measures taken by the Government regarding the Armenians are based on the necessity to ensure and protect the welfare and order of the Country. Exclusion of the Catholic and Protestant Armenians —who are at present observed as impartial at the present- from immigration, is the indication that the Government has no intention to massacre them” (2).

However, the communiqué which was issued by the Government for deporting the terrorist Armenians and their Gang leaders has been understood incorrectly in some places. Hence, several Armenian Bands, which were caught, were sent to places in which they continued their actions more freely. Upon such occurrence’s Talaat Pasha issued another communiqué on June 1, 1915, stressing that such Armenians should be transported to the places where they would not be able to continue their harmful actions, and also there deportations should be limited to the terrorists and rebels only (3).

Furthermore, in still another cryptic note dated June 13, 1915 dispatched to Mamuretüllaziz province, it was stated that the Armenians, besides those who were handed to the Court Marshall should be kept at suitable locations within the province under a previous order, hence not necessarily sent to Mousul province (4).

In a cryptic note dated June 14, 1915 which was sent to Erzurum, Diyarbekir, Mamuretülaziz and Bitlis provinces, after stressing that the Armenians should be protected during the immigration process; it was mentioned that it was natural to take measures against those who would try to flee or rebel against the gendarmes; however in no case Moslem peoples should be involved in such corrective acts; and also no opportunities should be set to start conflicts between the Moslems and Armenians.

Coming to the telegraph which is the core of the alleged claims of Armenian massacre (5).

An Armenian named Aram Andonian referred to it in his book, titled : “Memoirs of Naim Bey / Official Turkish Documents Regarding the Deportation and Massacre of the Armenians” published in London in 1920. This book was published under the titles: “Official Documents Regarding the Massacre of the Armenians”; and “The Gross Offence, the Last Armenian Massacre and Talat Pasha; the Originals of the Signed Official Telegraphs” in Paris and Boston respectively.

The telegraphs in the book, which were attributed to Talat Pasha, are false documents, which were originated to create a “massacre criminal”. As a result of the examination and research which was carried out by Messrs. Sinasi Orel and Süreyya Yuca on the subject documents a number of positive evidences, which prove the falsity of them were found. Among these evidences are: “that the person named Naim Bey — from whom the documents have been said that obtained- had never been employed in the “Celleppo Re-Settlement Department, that neither the said documents were authentic, nor the type of the papers were the same of those used in the official communication of that time; that the original counterparts were not among the Ministry of Interior documents in the Prime Ministry’s Archives; that the deed numbers on the documents could not fond in the registration logs of the relevant department; that there were some mistakes on the dates according to Mohammedan and Gregorian Calendars; that there were inconsistencies between the signatures; and there were some big grammatical and spelling mistakes in them.”

Furthermore, although it was mentioned that; “the original copies of the documents which were used in the book were kept at the Armenian Office in Manchester” since then they have persistently been concealed from the examination of the World opinion, and since their “authenticity was based on the report of the Aleppo Armenian Unit during the Ottoman times; is an important indication of the falsehood of the alleged claims of Armenian massacre.

REFERENCES:
Hallacoglu, Prof. Dr. Yusuf, Ermeni Tehcirine Dair Gerekceler (1915), TTK Yayini, Ankara, 2001.

Published by:
Turkish Hutorical Association, Ankara, 2001.

FOOTNOTES:
1) DH. EUM 2. Branch, 68/80
2) DH. EUM 2. Branch, 68/71; 2. Branch 68/84 (see doc: 192, 200)
3) DH. EUM 2. Branch, 68x101 (see doc 217).
4) An Armenian group which consisted of 26.064 people and lived in Aleppo were not actually included in the immigration process. Because; the population re-settled in the new settlement location were brought from Anatolia. On the other hand while the number of those who arrived at Aleppo were given as around a hundred thousand, (see: DH EUM. 2nd Branch, 68/80) the population arrived here was taken as 100.000.
5) OREL, Sinasi, YUCA Sureyya, Ermenilerce Talat Pasa’ya Atfedilen Telgraflarin Gercek Yüzü, Turkish Historical Association Publication, Ankara 1983.

http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/relocation/telegram.html

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CIRCULATED TO THE KING AND WAR CABINET
[December 26, 1916]
ARMENIAN MASSACRES.
Report by an Eye-Witness, Lieutenant Sayied Ahmed Moukhtar Baas.

———————-

In April 1915 I was quartered at Erzeroum. An order came from Constantinople that Armenians inhabiting the frontier towns and village be deported to the interior. It was said then that this was only a precautional measure. I saw at that time large convoys of Armenians go through Erzeroum. They were mostly old men, women and children. Some of the able-bodied men had been recruited in the Turkish Army and many had fled to Russia. The massacres had not begun yet. In May 1915 I was transferred to Trebizond. In July an order came to deport to the interior all the Armenians in the Vilayet of Trebizond. Being a member of the Court Martial I knew that deportations meant massacres.

The Armenian Bishop of Trebizond was ordered to proceed under escort to Erzeroum to answer for charges trumped up against him. But instead of Erzeroum he was taken to Baipurt and from there to Gumush-Khana. The Governor of the latter place was then Colonel Abdul-Kadar Aintabli of the General Staff. He is famous for his atrocities against the Armenians. He had the Bishop murdered at night. The Bishop of Erzeroum was also murdered at Gumush-Khana.

Besides the deportation order referred to above an Imperial "Iradeh" was issued ordering that all deserters when caught, should be shot without trial. The secret order read "Armenians" in lieu of "deserters". The Sultan's "Iradeh" was accompanied by a "fatwa" from Sheikh-ul-Islam stating that the Armenians had shed Moslem blood and their killing was lawful. Then the deportations started. The children were kept back at first. The Government opened up a school for the grown up children and the American Consul of Trebizond instituted an asylum for the infants. When the first batches of Armenians arrived at Gumush-Khana all able-bodied men were sorted out with the excuse that they were going to be given work. The women and children were sent ahead under escort with the assurance by the Turkish authorities that their final destination was Mosul and that no harm will befall them. The men kept behind, were taken out of town in batches of 15 and 20, lined up on the edge of ditches prepared beforehand, shot and thrown into the ditches. Hundreds of men were shot every day in a similar manner. The women and children were attacked on their way by the ("Shotas") the armed bands organised by the Turkish Government who attacked them and seized a certain number. After plundering and committing the most dastardly outrages on the women and children they massacred them in cold blood. These attacks were a daily occurrence until every woman and child had been got rid of. The military escorts had strict orders not to interfere with the "Shotas".

The children that the Government had taken in charge were also deported and massacred.

The infants in the care of the American Consul of Trebizond were taken away with the pretext that they were going to be sent to Sivas where an asylum had been prepared for them. They were taken out to sea in little boats. At some distance out they were stabbed to death, put in sacks and thrown into the sea. A few days later some of their little bodies were washed up on the shore at Trebizond.

In July 1915 I was ordered to accompany a convoy of deported Armenians. It was the last batch from Trebizond. There were in the convoy 120 men, 700 children and about 400 women. From Trebizond I took them to Gumish-Khana. Here the 120 men were taken away, and, as I was informed later, they were all killed. At Gumish-Khana I was ordered to take the women and children to Erzinjian. On the way I saw thousands of bodies of Armenians unburied. Several bands of "Shotas" met us on the way and wanted me to hand over to them women and children. But I persistently refused. I did leave on the way about 300 children with Moslem families who were willing to take care of them and educate them. The "Mutessarrif" of Erzinjian ordered me to proceed with the convoy to Kamack. At the latter place the authorities refused to take charge of the women and children. I fell ill and wanted to go back, but I was told that as long as the Armenians in my charge were alive I would be sent from one place to the other. However I managed to include my batch with the deported Armenians that had come from Erzeroum. In charge of the latter was a colleague of mine Mohamed Effendi from the Gendarmerie. He told me afterwards that after leaving Kamach they came to a valley where the Euphrates ran. A band of Shotas sprang out and stopped the convoy. They ordered the escort to keep away and then shot every one of the Armenians and threw them in the river.

At Trebizond the Moslems were warned that if they sheltered Armenians they would be liable to the death penalty.

Government officials at Trebizond picked up some of the prettiest Armenian women of the best families. After committing the worst outrages on them they had them killed.

Cases of rape of women and girls even publicly are very numerous. They were systematically murdered after the outrage.

The Armenians deported from Erzeroum started with their cattle and whatever possessions they could carry. When they reached Erzinjian they became suspicious seeing that all the Armenians had already been deported. The Vali of Erzeroum allayed their fears and assured them most solemnly that no harm would befall them. He told them that the first convoy should leave for Kamach, the others remaining at Erzeroum until they received word from their friends informing of their safe arrival to destination. And so it happened. Word came that the first batch had arrived safely at Kamach, which was true enough. But the men were kept at Kamach and shot, and the women were massacred by the Shotas after leaving that town.

The Turkish officials in charge of the deportation and extermination of the Armenians were: At Erzeroum, Bihas Eddin Shaker Bey; At Trebizond; Naiil Bey, Tewfik Bey Monastirly, Colonel of Gendarmerie, The Commissioner of Police; At Kamach; The member of Parliament for Erzinjian. The Shotas headquarters were also at Kamach. Their chief was the Kurd Murzabey who boasted that he alone had killed 70,000 Armenians. Afterwards he was thought to be dangerous by the Turks and thrown into prison charged with having hit a gendarme. He was eventually executed in secret.

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There are also eye witnesses to UFOs, flying cows, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq...
I don't mean to be offensive but WAKE UPPPPP!!!
You are fighting with your brothers for something didn't happen...
The result is imperialists benefit from it...

Have some honor and begin it with self-criticism.

I am out. Peace and logic and TRUTH be with you.

God help Armenians with this brainwashing...

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Goodbye, God help you too.

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You are the brainwashed one. Imperialism? That's funny coming from someone who lives in a country that took a Syrian sanjak (Alexandrette), a good chunk of historic Armenia, and refuses to allow the creation of a Kurdish state in northern Iraq (if it is created, Turkey has threatened to attack it).

Some Turks who are making a difference:
- Taner Akcam who published the book A Shameful Act, which is about the genocide of the Armenians by the Ottomans and Turkey's continued denial.
- Orhan Pamuk who was treated like crap from many in the Turkish community only for saying that 1 million Armenians and 30,000 Kurds were killed in Turkey and he was one of the only people who dared to say anything about it.
- Fatma Muge Gocek, a Turkish-American professor at the University of Michigan who recognizes the genocide and organized a conference on it in Istanbul.
- Elif Shafak was summoned to the court just because she included an Armenian character in one of her novels who discussed the genocide. Ridiculous.

I guess these Turks were capable of "self-criticism," unlike yourself.

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So when these names support you, they become cool but if they disagreed with you guys, they would be bad Turks?

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Did I say that?

In fact, if you read my previous post, you'd see that many of the aforementioned Turks did not even use the word "genocide," they merely said "Armenian killings" or had an Armenian character in their novels refer to the events.

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The idea is that special attention should be paid to those who have every reason to believe one thing, yet choose not to. And further attention still if they are, in all other respects, nationalistic (e.g. Shafak and Pamuk). This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Fighting it with rhetoric is a ridiculous effort.

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Those names are imperialists' ass kissers who live in and seek privileges from the imperialist world. Funny you forgot to mention that Pamuk won the nobel prize right after this speech of his about non-existing 1mil. Armenians. In 1915 there were less than half million Armenians in Anatolia.

Levon Dabagyan, one of the oldest and most respected Turkish-Armenian historian researcher can tell you these games and some real history in your language too since you don't understand in English.

The names you mentioned in your post are jokes and are not the only ones who dare to critisicize Turkey but are self-hating ingnorants. Pamuk's novels are full of plagirism because he is too much of a stranger to his own culture to write anything origianl. Though he still got the prize because his mouth smells like Armenian ass. Including me, many other Turks vocalize the wrong things and injustice anywhere including Turkey. This comment of yourself is irrelevant. If you want a Kurdish state, let them come to Yerevan, or to Glendale. Our Kurds are happy and we even had president in Turkey called Ozal. It's so obvious that you are a seperatist and can't wait to see Turkey being divided into those imperialist dogs' lands. But you are forgetting something; There are also Turks in Turkey and we got that land with our blood as much as your blood so these political games played by these self-hating so called Turks and brainwashed confused Armenian kids, will only bounce on your face.

If you like to bring a conutry into pieces so much, let's break California into pieces to native Americans, Mexicans, blacks and Armenians...

Please do not write me if you have some other aggression that was fed to you by your media and lobby. Tell me where 1.5 mil Armenians lived in Anatolia by numbers and names of the towns and give me a official resource. Because I looked into Armenian church records and the number was at 440.000s in 1915. Otherwise I don't have time to talk to walls.

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So many groundless assumptions. :(

By the way, I have read from a Turkish academician that Ozal was disliked by the Kurds, despite having some Kurdish ancestry. And if they are so happy, why do you arrest them for speaking their language in Parliament? Ridiculous. I won't get into this, as it is not about the Armenian genocide.

Very condescending and rude of you to use "your language" like that. I don't even know who Levon Dabagyan is.

You enjoy using examples that suit you best. I didn't say that I intended to take any piece of historic Armenia - I just used it as an example to show you that your country (the Republic of Turkey) is/was an imperialist one.

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I've had e-mail correspondence with Shafak directly. There is nothing self-hating about her. At the time, it was before she had charges brought upon her and she had positive things to say about the situation in Turkey. You only refer to these people as self-hating because they don't agree with you on this issue. You would be championing Pamuk as a Turkish success story if he never made a comment about Armenians.

I don't know how you were able to look at church records if most of them no longer exist.

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I think it's absolutely hilarious that you criticize hbfilmz and all who hold his point of view of lacking skepticism in their sources yet you decide to quote a Turkish historian who is known to be flagrantly bigoted and political. The same guy who goes well beyond what most Turks claim by saying that Armenians massacred the Turks. That is absurd. If you were approaching this from the objective standpoint you were claiming to hold, you would maintain your skepticism and not post such nonsense. Particularly, laughable nonsense about elusive cryptic communication that contained information that didn't need to be encrypted in secrecy in the first place.

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Every bit of information on that site can be debunked - I will post more information if requested.

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So if a Turk goes against Turkey, then he's a self-hating ignorant bastard.
However, if an Armenian goes against Armenia, then he's the oldest most respected professor in Turkey. I get it.

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No you don't. Dabagyan doesn't go against Armenia, and actually he loves his country (Armenia and Turkey) and his own people much more than some internet-patriots like you, by defending the true history against all the life theats from Armenian extremists. To be against Armenia, he'd make fascist comments like Pamuk, Akcam or Gocek and would not do anything else positive about the two cultures' relationships. When Dabagyan doesn't deny the massacres of Armenians, Pamuk, Akcam, and Gocek choose to ignore these facts :http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/album/ana5.html

And only but only make themselves busy about shunning their own history without knowing a bit. To understand what I am saying you must know something real about Turkish history, culture and then read Akcam books and Pamuk novels. I read them all and they are science-fiction. Pamuk doesn't even know how to describe a mosque... Though we must respect him because he is "brave" enough to make false comments and take his nobel up his...

Now do you get it?

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Are these the people those "terrorists" killed:
Talaat Pasha, assassinated by Soghomon Tehlirian on March 15, 1921. He was released with a 'not guilty' verdict by the German Court in June 1921.
Behboud Khan Jivanshir, assassinated by Misak Torlakian on July 28, 1921. He was acquitted by the British forces in November of 1921.
Sayid Halim Pasha, assassinated by Arshavir Shirakian on December 5, 1921. He was not captured and was back in Constantinople.
Jemal Azmi assassinated by Uhland, Arshavir Shirakian and Aram Yerganian on April 17 1922. They were not captured.
Behaeddin Shakir assassinated by Uhland, Arshavir Shirakian and Aram Yerganian on April 17 1922. They were not captured.
Cemal Pasha assassinated by Stepan Dzaghikian, Bedros Der Boghosian and Ardashes Kevorkian on July 25. They were not captured.
Enver Pasha killed by an Armenian Russian soldier in August 1922. (Note: this info is not verified)

I gotta tell you. Right now, they're not the most loved party in Armenia(far from it). But before just like with the first republic of Armenia, they actually looked like they could get things done. They did the right thing to kill those bastards.
You know what "Tehlirian" said after he killed Talaat?
I'll die, but you'll "die an animal"
In Armenian (maybe in Turkish also) there's two words for dieing. One is for humans, the other one for animals.


BTW, Just tell me what Dabagyan says.

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[deleted]

So basicly, all this guy is saying is that Armenians only died of disease and hunger. Try reading the trial of Soghomon Tehlirian and see how they killed his whole family.

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Trial_of_Soghoman_Tehlirian

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to tell you the truth
when i talk about the armenian genocide to anybody
they either dose off or get really bored of it
i am dyingg to see this movie because i am and armenian my self
as much as i wish and wish for this movie to make it
i know it wont

i am predicting that not many americans or other than armenians will go see this movie
unless they are into history and the armenian genocide

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This movie is only opening in 3 theaters. Do you people really think it's about making money?

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I'm just going to hope it opens up to more theaters or at least comes out on DVD sometime.

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I don't think that so-called Armenian genocide did happen, there were deaths in two sides but Turkish people did never try to kill all Armenian people in the country.
Now in Turkey, there a lot of Armenians living with us peacefully, they are pretty happy living with us. Whoever says contrary, I believe that Armenians and Turks are brothers from very beginning, and this "Armenian genocide" issue is only a political material that countries use while they insist something to Turkey.

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All so called genocide groupies are effin morons.

You have fallen for the imperialist game that became a bigger and bigger tool to divide and conquer other civilizations that can not be gobbled with one bite.

Turks-Kurds-Armenians lived peacefully for the longest time.

When did the *beep* start hitting the fan when the empire-states such as Britain and Russia started playing the GREAT GAME(For all you groupies google it).

Armenians joined forces with the enemy. My ancestors never has as an ideology without provokation raised their hands against civilians. Ottomans fought the enemy head on in the field or their leadership with Byzantine politics. They haven't under any circumstances deliberately targeted civilians for extermination.

Just because your hands are dirty does not mean my ancestors are too.

Read about Hitler and Stalin and their ideologies before comparing their dogma to what took place in eastern Anatolia you ignorant fools (They know who they are).

First youtube video I favorited was an interview with Hrant Dink that never aired. His sentiments are my sentiments.

Allah rahmet eylesin.

P.S: Don't pull oh but he was in the ignorant documentary that SOAD helped put together I know how you can cut anything in editing make it look like what you wanted to make it look like. Also never forget people learn and change uncovering of information as he self actualized as a person was what Hrant exactly did I wish I had a English version of that clip but I am going to put up the link for the clip anyways.

So sorry hate filled puppets of the neo-colonist powers you are way of *beep* base. It is incredibly insulting for you to compare what happened in 1915 with the holocaust or the western or eastern european atrocities commiteed in the 20 th century.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L3s7r6qM87c

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[deleted]

My veiws would be this... THERE SHOULD NEVER BE SUCH THING AS TURKISH OR ARMENIAN POWER THERE SHOULD BE EQUALITY. Also I do agree that the Armenian genocide happend but its not to say that the Armenians didn't fight back I mean if someone burned down your home and killed your family wouldn't you be mad? Like said before there is blood on both sides of the fence.

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Duna200 Quote: "You have fallen for the imperialist game that became a bigger and bigger tool to divide and conquer other civilizations that can not be gobbled with one bite."

Other civilizations? Lets get one thing straight. "Turkey" is occupying land which was taken from the Armenians.

Duna200 Quote: "So sorry hate filled puppets of the neo-colonist powers you are way of *beep* base. It is incredibly insulting for you to compare what happened in 1915 with the holocaust"

How is it off base to compare genocide to genocide? Regardles of what people were victimized, they were victimized for who they were. 6 million Jews were murdered by the Germans in WWII. 1.5 million Armenians were murdered 25 years earlier by the "peacful" Turks. Sim million is alot more then 1.5 million, but does that mean 1.5 million is a small number? Or that it wasn't a big deal or unimportant because fewer wer killed?


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