MovieChat Forums > Sublime (2007) Discussion > Interesting movie, but terribly flawed (...

Interesting movie, but terribly flawed (Spoilers)


I just finished watching the movie and I must say that while the premise is interesting, it's execution was extremely flawed.

The first (and probably most noticeable) flaw is the pacing itself. The movie's pace is slowed to a crawl thanks to the constant interswitching between flashbacks and present moments. I suppose this is for the purpose of keeping plot points intact within the viewers' mind, but what a terrible way to go about doing it. Using this method sacrifices good pacing and, while it does keep plot points fresh, the problem is that it can make the general plot-line more confusing due to the clashing of various points during this decreased pacing. The primary effect of this on the movie itself, I believe, is that the general plotline (xenophobia, ethnocentricity, general fear of unknown?) seems to have come out of nowhere.

Second problem I felt was the number of frivolous additional scenes to the movie. Once again, this was largely due to the constant flashbacks, but there were also a number of scenes which didn't really seem to serve an integral purpose to the plot. The most obvious of which was the inclusion of the sex scene (God, I hate it when movies do this), but a less noticeable one was the addition of that bandaged man. At first, it seemed to serve an important purpose, but after a while, the man and the consequential death seemed to dither away in importance other than as a reinforcement of "Mandingo's" ominous character (which was already extremely obvious) and for the political theme in this movie.

Lastly, while I have not much of a problem with the characters themselves, I really have to question some of the things they say. What I mean by this is that, at the most random of times, the characters seem to go into what I call "Drama Recession."

When they go into the Drama Recession, they say all sorts of things that seems to carry little to no sense of relevancy at all. The first major scene of this was probably the bandaged man. Out of nowhere, he started a tangent about politics? Then, of course, there was Mandingo's own political tangent. Of course, both of this is obviously relating to the movie's plot point that George is a uncultured, assuming man, yet the tangents remain obscure. Aside from that, I seriously have to ask what were the point of all those flashbacks if one of the primary plot points remain obscure regardless?

All in all, the one truly good moment in the movie was probably the end. At that point, the flashbacks stopped, and the pacing speed up considerably. What happens? Surprise, surprise, the movie became suspenseful and somewhat exciting. Not merely that, but ironically enough, the one part of the whole movie which didn't contain flashbacks was the one point in which symbolism seem to stand out the strongest.

If the end had been how the whole movie was, then this would have easily been a great movie.

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The tolerance of storyline inconsistency is why we have so many bad movies today.

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You have no idea about such mental states. For some people this movie is brilliant because it matches their states perfectly. If you don't get it, this movie may be dull for you.

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Sqned,

I apologize for asking, but what exactly did that have to do with my argument? I argued that this movie was flawed due to pacing, frivolous additions, and seemingly random tangents. Then you come in here and say that the reason this movie is dull for me is because I have no idea about such mental states (despite me not saying a thing about that particular plot point). Mm-hmm.

Here's a suggestion: Don't try to argue if you have no proper rebuttal.

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The tolerance of storyline inconsistency is why we have so many bad movies today.

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Allright then, please remind some frivolous additions, I wonder which they are.
Imo the slow progression in plot is an advantage here,

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I don't know so many people hate this movie, frankly it wasn't that bad. I've seen really really bad movies, and movies that a lot of people classify as great (like Crash) are just horrible to me. While this movie isn't exceptional or anything, it's certainly not as bad as some of you make it out to be.

The reason for the unnecessary political drama was 1) to throw the viewer off that it's not reality (however I had already figured this out the minute I found out the movie mentioned a surgery..)..but also a lot of the Madgino political talk was representative of the guy's own subconscious fears. He seemed to really be afraid of Black men, and it was manifesting ..i.e. the Black man poisons him, attacks him, and then subconscious sexual desires, etc.. etc..

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The pacing is actually one of the positive things of this movie. Any jackass hack like that Michael "Talentless Piece Of Crap" Bay can fast-pace a movie. It takes balls and talent to slow pace.

As Orson Welles once said, when he was comented that his earlier movies had longer takes and less intercutting within a scene then the average Hollywood moie, he replied: "that was how we seperate the men from the boys". It's obvious that the filmmakers of "Subleme" belong to the Men's club.

Whatever flaws this film has, pacing is not one of them. The pacing is perfect for the story it tells. The pacing of a movie is slave to only one thing only: the kind of story it tells, and not the expected atention span of the audiences. Movies that catter to the later always turn up as pieces of crap, and that's a fact.

"This are Nice shoes! Couldn't you afford some real Nike?"

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I agree wholeheartedly, LocalDoctor.

The movie was extremely pretentious. Slow pacing is not inherently bad, but it can be downright excruciating when a plot spins it wheels like this one.

We learn almost nothing about George throughout this movie, be it in the flashbacks or in the hospital. The flashbacks merely serve as exposition for unnecessary surgeries (Who discusses such random topics at a birthday party?), but do nothing to help us understand George's fears. Rather, his fears pop up periodically at the hospital without any context to his reasons for them. And as far as I can tell, they are fears that few others dread.

Mandingo is the perfect example of this. His speech at the end is way more painful than anything he can do to George's hands.

It could have been a much better movie. Personally, I think the bulk of the first hour ruined the fine payoff at the last 10 minutes. Too bad many people will have lost interest before then.

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I agree with you completely.
This film is indeed unique and interesting, and could have been great if done and written differently, and if it left politics out.
It is frustrating, confusing and depressing, it relies too heavily on symbolism, the pacing is too slow, there are too many flashbacks and superfluous dialogues, and the only very good part is the ending.
It is not a horror, but a very disturbing drama with a hint of fantasy themes.

Boycott movies that involve real animal violence! (and their directors too)

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