MovieChat Forums > Sublime (2007) Discussion > questions.....*spoi lers*

questions.....spoi lers

posted 17 years ago by RenKuroda
44 replies | jump to latest

I dont get the movie at all.

Is the wrong surgery and flesh eating bacteria a coincident and not staged by the doctors?

Who is really mandigo? is he working alone to *beep* George and the bandaged man alone?

Why were George's presents were on the PVS channel?

Whats with all the sad looking patients in the east ward?

What's with the tree tattoos in mandigo and zoe's body? what does it mean? Why were George looks all surprised when mandigo shows him the tattoo?

So at the end, all the sht that took place were the things George heard (and we see) from are manifestations of the stuff George heard from his friends/brother and the doubt his brother gave him of his wife?

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] RenKuroda 17 years ago

whoa, the movie seems pointless then -.-

[–] johnsonjohnson 17 years ago

-_-

George lives the american dream - a life without meaning. He has a family, a wife, and kids, but its the worry that continuously appears front centre in his conscience. His brother, the only character in his life that seems to stick out of his perfect picture, is rooted into a life of - some would argue - meaning (eg. retreat to africa, detatchment from first world living).

When George slides into his coma he loses everything, thereby allowing him to experience the fragility of his reality. His american dream is lost, and what's left is nothing but the only thing - i'd argue - that mattered truly: his fear.

He sees his 'dream' (family, technology, money) as nothing but apparations on the Shopping network, and his SUBLIME fears take over his reality.

It seems that when he dreamt of what was perfect (such as 'seeing a soul by looking into the eyes of someone') he arguably lost touch with what was real (his paranoia, his racist thoughts, his sex drive, his wife leaving him). Within the coma, he was able to flip his world inside out, his dreams fading, and his 'core reality' become phyiscally manifested. This was too much to handle, and the realization that THAT would be what the rest of his life was became an incentive to end it all.

THE POINT - in response to the pointlessness comment - of the film is that what is REAL, that is, the most RAWEST, PUREST, form of ourselves, is too dark and too horrific. Instead, we are left to create these 'dreams' of the perfect family, the perfect children, the perfect house, the perfect friends. Without the hope of such things, it becomes the 7th floor East ward - the more real side of the world. We - as rich first class north americans - would rather DIE than face the truth.

I am not even scratching the surface.

The movie is both a crtique and a reinforcement of The American Dream. Unfortunetly, it's much too subtle - or, if i may, sublime - for most audiences to actually comprehend. It touches on multitudes of academia and is under-appreciated, much like James Joyce would be under-appreciated by the average reader. It's also unforuntely that most of the people that'll read this post, or respond to it, won't understand my post nor the significance of this movie.

It's not a horror.
It's much too smart to be a horror.

[–] johnsonjohnson 17 years ago

btw.

The soundtrack - as a musician/producer - is stunning.

That's imo. If you don't like it, that's fine.

Also, to Zaratustra, I love Fred.N.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] acwatson 17 years ago

Haha!

[–] burner_wr 17 years ago

THANK YOU johnsonjohnson, im glad to see that someone else out there besides myself is able to appreciate this film. It seems 95% of the people who see this movie were looking for nothing but blood, guts and scares, not wanting, or able to look at the film metaphorically, because that would require use of their brain. Its because of those 95% that all we get nowadays are recycled hollywood bull$hit movies.

Use you brains people, its there for a reason.

[–] dizzydarko 17 years ago

THANK YOU johnsonjohnson, im glad to see that someone else out there besides myself is able to appreciate this film. It seems 95% of the people who see this movie were looking for nothing but blood, guts and scares, not wanting, or able to look at the film metaphorically, because that would require use of their brain. Its because of those 95% that all we get nowadays are recycled hollywood bull$hit movies.

Use you brains people, its there for a reason.

Such costly errors when referring to others stupidity.

This film has no higher level or underlying genius meaning. The dialogue is terrible, acting horrendous and overall story easily seen without any need to think.

*Spoilerish* Of course I was looking for guts and scares, they said it was a horror movie! It took 51 minutes before there was anything remotely scary. The point was suppose to be he lived his life in worry and his fears manifested themselves for him to experience for the rest of time and we know this when towards the end Mandigo says it to him and they have a flashback of him asking his son if he worries to much. Terrible, let me realize this plot line on my own by giving hints or let me see him worry don't just come out and say it that this is the plot line. I like a movie that I have to think about and figure out, this one just said it.

The dialogue between people was weak and boring, there was no emotion by any actors.

The worst part of this movie was that its about a man being consumed of his fears after living his life afraid of everything, but wait all the fears that manifested were just scary things people talked to him about at the party! They were never even shown to be his own fears that he lived with. Basically, someone told him a scary story and he had nightmare about it. Awful.

The one good thing is that they showed a reverse cowgirl, which is not something you see too often in a movie.

I would gladly be part of the 95% and watch mostly recycled hollywood bs if it meant i'd never have to see such a terrible b movie.

Cemetery Man is something you should watch. It has gasp! blood, guts and a couple scares all the while giving you a story line you really have to think about.

[–] AdamD04 17 years ago

"The one good thing is that they showed a reverse cowgirl, which is not something you see too often in a movie. "

Probably the funniest thing I've ever seen slipped into a legitimate critique on an IMDB post. Thank you Darko

[–] Korrd 17 years ago

I laughed at that, too. He's got a point, though. I think that was really the only part where I sat up and said, "Ooh, what's this now?"

[–] Korrd 17 years ago

That was pretty much my reaction to the film as well. I fail to see any real depth or meaning to it, despite others' claims. And the bit about it somehow being political commentary? I missed that as well.

As you say, awful. I enjoyed a couple members of the cast, but only because they got screen time. The acting itself was, almost universally, very bland.

I'm not big on blood and guts movies, but I'll be watching Cemetery Man for comparison...

It's unlikely I'd enjoy it any less than Sublime.

[–] whraglyn-2 17 years ago

Thanks for the tip, dizzydarko.

Had been considering Cemetery Man the last few weeks, just needed a second opinion to confirm.
Your exposition of the vacuity of academics justifying their distaste for all things American through the creation and recurring examination of such intellectualized crap as 'Sublime'helped me decide in favor of Rupert, et al. Looking forward to a bit if sublime stimulation. <g>

Also, found your handle ingenious and amusing.
Among truly stimulating, engrossing, and engaging films, Donnie Darko is near the top of my list(s) of the finest such films seen in my 40 years of cinemania.

Cheers, buddy!

[–] taffy_taylor 17 years ago

very well said burner_wr, i totally agree!!!!

[–] Amel1a 17 years ago

I am perfectly able to look at films metaphorically, and was not particularly looking for blood, guts or scares - however the extensive use of symbolism, metaphors and non-linear plotlines does not automatically make a good artistic work.

I don't think that the lead actor was convincing, and most of the acting did not really engage me as it should, even though some of the actors have been great in other stuff (Paget Brewster, for instance).

Maybe a few more scares along the way would have livened things up a bit? I must admit, by the time the "scissors" scene came along, I just found it nasty rather than scary, and the whole film had just become tiresome. Didn't watch the film right to the end (which is very unusual for me) - perhaps there was a major plot revelation at the end, but by then I just didn't CARE.

Part of the problem, perhaps is that I've just finished watching series 2 of the BBC TV show "Life on Mars" which explores similar themes of what is real and what is fantasy, and where you are never quite sure whether the protagonist is in a coma or not. However, the writing and characterisation was far more fully realised and multi-dimensional, wheras Sublime just seemed to sink deeper and deeper into its own pretentious mire.

[–] specialuse117 17 years ago

An insightful comment but I am afraid you miss the point for most people. I did not buy this movie to see a social commentary by filmakers with an obvious ignorance, prejudice, and intolerance toward successful white males. The official product description desribes this movie as "fear-drenched psychological thriller" and "Graphic, bold, sexual and utterly horrifying." Can you in any way justify describing this film in that fashion? This marketing is what is irritating and dissapointing, not that this pretentious film is to parapharse you "too subtle for most audiences to comprehend." Most of the audience (including me) who purchase this were deceieved. If the film makers were deceptive about promoting their product because they know the audience would not want to see it, then how in any manner can we have belief in any mesage they have to say. You state that it's much too smart to be a horror - no it;s just too dishonest a film to be anything but boring and misleading. I do not want to "scrath the surface" of a film that is not what it is advertised to be.

[–] hatebreeder_2099 17 years ago

In response to the soundtrack; it reminded me of the video game Silent Hill. I have the soundtracks from all the games, and this one just reminded me of those. I thought the soundtrack to this film was brilliant!

[–] johnsonjohnson 17 years ago

I agree whole-heartedly. It was extremely inappropriate to categorize it as a horror.

It reminds me of how American Psycho was placed into the horror genre at the video store.

[–] KitsunegariBlu 17 years ago

I have to agree the movie bored me so much I couldn't even finnish watching it. It was Tom Cavannaugh at a dinner party with his pals kvetching and seemingly disassociated hospital scenes.

If I want to see odd things happening at a hospital, that seem a tetch disarming and could be thought of as 'horror' I'll watch the J-Horror flick "Infection".

I'm all for the thinking woman's horror movie, but for me this just wasn't hitting the spot. I don't know what the Maxim reviewer was talking about when he said this was like a really great Twilight Zone.

I think they crammed American Psycho in the Horror genre because they didn't want to make another section for Psychological Graphic Thriller. And for the guy singing the praises of a reverse cowgirl. All I can say, as a woman. I appreciated Christian Bale in American Psycho's sex scene MUCH more. I mean c'mon Tom Cavannaugh as a sex symbol? Because I assume that's who the scene is with. He's got beautiful blue eyes, and is in shape, but he's NOT making me ovulate.

Maybe that's why the reviewer from E! Entertainment said it was Surreal. Because TC as a sex idol hit's me as pretty absurdist, and surreal.
Love, Grace & Peace, Gunner

This Witty Quip Space For Rent

[–] hanstaal 17 years ago

Johnsonjohnson said: most of the people that'll read this post, or respond to it, won't understand my post nor the significance of this movie

- I do, you have given some good points here

Johnsonjohnson said: I am not even scratching the surface

- This movie is indeed not just a horror like most of them, it's one of those movies to see the meaning behind it. Not just to look at, but to analise, and that's what Johnsonjohnson tried to explain.
Acting and special effects are not the top, but this movie touched me. The music is perfect for this movie.

[–] Tristan_Sinns 17 years ago

Well said johnsonjohnson! While I can appreciate blood, guts, and a reverse cowgirl any day of the week, it's awesome to see a film with some depth and thought to it.

I haven't even begun to digest it (just finished watching 10 minutes ago), but your comments seem right on the mark.

[–] rokyo 17 years ago

I agree with both sides on this one: On the one hand I liked the movie and I see Johnson's point, how it would make sense as a critique of the American Dream. On the other hand I, too, expected something else when I rented this: A horror or splatter flick. So the PR was definitely kind of misleading, but well, maybe that's what it takes to get some people to watch this movie. Personally, I didn't mind the faulty categorization because I enjoyed this movie nevertheless.

But in my opinion one question remains: Johnson, why do you think this could also be a reinforcement of the American Dream? To me the outlook of either living the rest of your life in fear or killing yourself (the choice the main character had to face at the end according to your interpretation - on which I agree by the way) doesn't seem too "dream reinforcing". Or do you think that maybe his wife's behavior ("one year ago, I was thinking about myself, about leaving, but now I want to keep you alive till the end of my life" [quote from the movie]) was meant to tell us that there is still hope because some people do not act selfish?

Greetings
rokyo

[–] rjohns5 17 years ago

Wonderful commentary! I personally prefer movies that make you think, that go beyond a pretty package. I loved this film and wish there were more like it being made... and not the standard effects laden/weak story films out there.

[–] crissy_snow 17 years ago

wow johnsonjohnson you have really put the film into
a very understandable wording.

i loved the movie and so enjoy learning hidden meanings, trying to figure out
what the writer was trying to portray.

ok, i'm not sure but i am guessing the nurse with the tree of life on her back as kind of like the good ying/yang of "mango"?
and his frustration of not being able to be with her physically?

[b][red]Dream until your dreams come true;Life's a journey, not a destination*(steven tyler)

[–] matrixovo 17 years ago

wow i didnt get it at first but now i get it. I used to do american beauty at school. School i guess theres a corresponding theme.

[–] roomsixproductions 17 years ago

I agree with your assessment of the film, johnsonjohnson, however, I disagree with your statement that it's not a horror. It's only not a horror if you aren't aware of what's happening to you. The horror is knowing. Ignorance is bliss.

[–] gusdelund 17 years ago

Yeah, kind of Jacob's Leader.
But sorry this movie (Sublime) is not good.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] zombiefrank 17 years ago

Too smart to be a horror movie is ridiculous considering many horror films have already subverted the same themes of this film, and much better as well. One of the most frustrating things on IMDB MB are the posters who have to self-righteously proclaim that a film is too smart for most people, because said person did not enjoy the film. When a film like "Sublime" can not genuinely criticise without using overt symbolism (symbology...?), it is very ineffective and really undermines the audiences intelligence. Films such as "Written on the Wind" by the great Douglas Sirk, is a deconstruction of the American dream as well, yet it masks itself very inconspicuosly as a mellowdrama. Im not trying to attack you Johnson, I just think that if you are going to argue that people will not understand your response as well, it should be because it is actually written with some meaning behind it and not a broad generaliztion.

[–] johnsonjohnson 17 years ago

You're right. The pretension was unnecessary. My apologies.

[–] zombiefrank 17 years ago

Ahh..dont worry man. Kudos to you in the first place for taking the time for your interesting input on the film. It is rare on these message boards that you get someone who is willing to discuss a film instead of going the down the sucks vs cool route. Like I said before I was not trying to attack you, but i was only dissapointed with the direction you took towards the end of your well written comment. I look forward to discussing films with you some more as well.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] jamesseller 17 years ago

Im angry at how poor this film was.

After reading comments on here before i actually watched it, i was expecting much much more and much more of an ending.

Awful, just awful and one of the few times i've really been mad at something for wasting my time.

The only good thing to say about this film was the nurse's looks.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] vanilla-acid 17 years ago

Im sorry, but that may be one of the dumbest things Ive read on here, and Ive read a lot of dumb things. You read the comments on here before watching the movie, 90% of which are people saying that they did not like the movie and how its a waste of time. You then watch the movie, then you get mad because you didnt like the movie and thought it was a waste of time. Do you not see the irony here?

[–] Clemicus 17 years ago

yes I do, I did the same thing lol

[–] bugzlayer 17 years ago

Right, I get it... it was all a dream. The constant cawing of the bird and the different paintings on the hospital room wall made that pretty clear.

But I too was wondering what all the people in the abandoned ward were doing there... Also, did they actually perform the wrong surgery? What was the deal with the red file? Why did the tree of life tatoo appear on Mandingo's chest?
I might have missed out on a line of dialogue because I'm pretty confused.

I was impressed by the cinematography and the actors' performance, yet I can't help but think that the film's subtext was trying to be too meaningful (if such a thing exists), thus making it pretentious. It really is a shame because it started off so well.

[–] lauriloo38c 17 years ago

I just finished watching it, including the director/writer's commentary which was very illuminating to all the symbolism. It's really about current day's events with our trouble in the middle east (hence the trouble happening in the "east ward" (eastward). The main character, "George Grieves" represents both the US and George Bush. He's proud of his wealth and accomplishments and thinks he knows how other people feel/their needs by simply looking into their eyes but obviously he can't read people that well. His well-experienced brother represents Europe and their views of how we are handling the middle east. Mandingo in some ways represents both George's fear of Muslims and of black people (white guilt). Mandingo makes George face his fears and choose his fate. There's also a little bit of the Terri Schaivo controversy thrown in and whether hanging on to someone is really the right thing to do when all hope is lost. The commentary spells it all out in detail and it's very interesting.

I agree, it's not really what I would call a horror movie, but more of a suspense/thriller with a message.

[–] metro_west_dude 17 years ago

The gore that was 'tossed in' brought any message the movie 'may' have been trying to convey down several notches. Totally unnecessary.

Music was better than the movie itself.

There are many people that can see a piece of dung on the wall and write 6 paragraphs on why it is meaningful. This may or may not apply in this case.

Artie 'Fatty' Langhorn is an untalented smelly pseudo-beast.

[–] Clemicus 17 years ago

I think thats an overstatement, or at least pushing the metaphors to the extreme.

If that was the message, then what was the message at the end?

[–] stlunarick999 17 years ago

Just for the hell of it, this movie was too slow to come about, and a rehash of movies that have done things better one million times b4.

[–] DWhitney89 17 years ago

I just got done watching this movie and I have to say that I am a little bit disapointed with it. The last time I was out renting movies, I picked this one up because of the dvd cover art. Being a major horror fan, it caught my eye (along with the unrated stamped on it). So I picked it up and started reading the back of it and it sounded pretty good. Phrases such as "fear drenched psychological thriller", "Sublime will keep you guessing as its puzzle pieces fall into place, and leave you stunned by it's anstonishing conclusion", "Graphic, bold, sexual, and utterly horrifying". After reading all of this, I thought it sounded like my kind of horror movie so I decided to rent it. I watched it tonight and didn't really like it. The ending was ok but not fantastic. (SPOLIERS)I kind of saw the whole coma thing coming (the part where he killed himself in the coma state which caused him to die in real life was new and probably the only interesting part of the movie). This movie was not graphic...there wasn't really any blood besides the whole finger cutting part and I didn't really find it bold...the sexual was there and the only thing that was utterly horrifying was the fact that I spent 2 hours of my life watching it. Once the credits began to roll, I questioned my judgement in movies (I always end up renting crappy movies that make absolutely no sense) and thought "why me? Why am I so attracted to such crappy movies" (examples: Tideland, Muhullond Dr., Stay,Eyes Wide Shut, etc.)And as I get on here and read some of the other posts about this movie, I read stuff about "metaphorical meaning" and such. I'm sorry, but unless the movie is a classic or literary work, I don't think that a person should have to sit there and look for metaphorical meaning in order to understand a movie...especially one that disguises itself as a horror movie. If you rent this movie, skip to the sex scenes and the very end because those are really the only parts worth watching.

danny

[–] Danimal_77 9 years ago

No, you obviously don't get it, even though you claim you do. There was NO wrong surgery performed. The correct surgery was performed, but it went wrong. There was NO Mandingo. There was NO red file. He was in a coma and all that you saw POST-surgery was in his MIND. All that was real was the end with his family (brother included) looking at what appeared to be a braindead man just lying there with his eyes open. We KNOW that he's not braindead and just cannot communicate and so, he finally LETS GO of life and dies. The end.

[–] kmll-1 17 years ago

i just watched this movie and at first i didnt get it until the ed when it all fit together we just a few unanswered questions that some of you helped me out to answer. The movie was awesome!!