Genocide and ethnic cleansing


I think we should come to grips with what was done to the Natives of this land: genocide and ethnic cleansing of the worst kind. Yes, genocide and ethnic cleansing in our own country. As of today, most Native Americans live in third-world conditions, ghettoized in the same reservations that were created in the 19th century, and not amount of "casino licenses" is going to make up for what we did to these people. There has to be some sort of reparation; our society needs to come to grips with this injustice and help the few surviving tribes for their advancement.

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Casinos. End of reparations issue.

"Librarians are hiding something."

Stephen Colbert

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So every Indian should be given a casino? Is that your idea of "reparations" for genocide? How many casinos should be built? Should reservations be kept as they stand today?

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today is not the world of yesterday, i think the reservations should be either givin free brandnew houses built and buildings for recreation and nourish the land back to heath if it's povrished. I mean most are given free money here and there for their ancestors but it's not enough to clean up their rez.I know the government has it.

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The funniest part of the casinos is that only a few intelligent and greedy savages are making any cash.

Nice language usage, pal.
They're as dirty as the next race.

And what race would that be?
Just because they got their butts handed to them by a superior enemy, doesn't mean the world should feel sorry for them. If they were in the same position as white folk back then, they would have done the same damn thing, it's just that people love a so-called underdog.

Wow, I want the 10 seconds I wasted reading your utterly ill informed and ill conceived shi t back.


Ignore/Idiots '07: rimeshot, culture warrior, hmcphee, dinoperson867, JakeHeke08

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Casinos won't help all the tribes that can't profit from them.

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Talk about some ignorant language. We didn't give them a thing. We took their land than said here have this but kept moving the boarders as we saw fit. Then we murdered them at Wounded knee to thank them for their troubles. They were here first. Here is a scenerio lets say a superior alien race comes to this planet and tells you that they are smarter and knows what is best for you and force you to move. Would you like it?

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Survival of the fittest. If you can't realize the world is a brutal and awful place, do not blame me.

We can pretend to care and be civilized all we want, but when push comes to shove, you would murder any form of life in order to feed your own mouth or get what you want. Be real.

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Then that is not civilized. We have to progress beyound that if we are suppose to be. I guess you think than it was okay what the Nazis did to the Jews, because that was surivial of the fittess.

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Never said it was ok, but to think it never happens or will never happen again is being foolish. Darfur, hell, it happens in Africa all the time, *beep* everywhere. Why are the Indians such a special people? Oh, because we are white, and we're supposed to feel way way bad for things that happened a billion years ago. Great.

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Because we have to remember incidents like this. If we forget what the Nazis did to the Jews or what the U.S government did to Native Americans it will happen again. I think it is awful that we allow what is going on in Dafur and what happened in Rwanda. The West don't care which is embarassing as a civilized world.

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Yes because you are white and are the people who did it and is still living from the fruits of it. Denial is a heck of thing, isn't it?

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Never said it was ok

No but your justifiying the means with the ends and thats just plain old fashioned stupidity on your part. Read a book, redneck.
but to think it never happens or will never happen again is being foolish. Darfur, hell, it happens in Africa all the time, *beep* everywhere.

So what your ancestors did is justifiable? Is that what you are saying?
Why are the Indians such a special people?

Because they were the first Americans. They were here before you came here.
Oh, because we are white, and we're supposed to feel way way bad for things that happened a billion years ago. Great.

Like I said, pick up a book ya redneck moron.




Ignore/Idiots '07: rimeshot, culture warrior, hmcphee, dinoperson867, JakeHeke08

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by - Bucky_Bleichert on Sun May 27 2007 21:09:47

No but your justifiying the means with the ends and thats just plain old fashioned stupidity on your part. Read a book, redneck.

So what your ancestors did is justifiable? Is that what you are saying?

Because they were the first Americans. They were here before you came here.

Like I said, pick up a book ya redneck moron.


Ignore/Idiots '07: rimeshot, culture warrior, hmcphee, dinoperson867, JakeHeke08


And Bucky doesn't use racial slurs.

And, you guys the Dakota/Lakota/Nakota drove out the Cheyenne from the land that is now know as the Dakotas. It wasn't originally your land, so is what your ancestors did justifiable? The original home of the Siouan people are the Carolinas and Virginia.

They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken.


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Not billions of years ago. My Great-Grandmother before she passed away remembered a time when she was allowed to live with her people freely, a time when she was allowed to speak her native language and practice the religious beliefs that had been taught to her since birth. She remembered being forced to leave behind the only way she had ever lived to move to squalid conditions on a reservation. She also remembers the winter that most of her people starved to death on that reservation, because the rations they were promised them never came, men begging to be given something for their dying wives and children to eat, women boiling bones in water for "dinner". I hate to think about the position her Mother & father were in, because how do you explain this to a young girl? Had they not been forced onto the reservation they would have had food to eat, because they could provide for themselves.

So no, not billions of years ago, not billions of years ago at all. Not that long ago, and still it continues. Then of course we had the audacity to enter into a war to stop Hitler and the horrid things he did not so long after. Where was America's justice and compassion while these things were happening on its own soil. It is clearly a case of do as I say not as I do.

Why are Native Americans such a special people? That's hilarious! Because to America, they're not, not at all. You don't hear about Wounded Knee or what happened at the *beep* or even what happened on the reservation where my Great-grandmother spent her remaining youth. You hear about Little Big Horn, where those "savages" attacked and killed the great George Armstrong Custer. He needed shot, and I'm sure he's rotting in hell for all the women, children and elderly people he massacred on the *beep* and in other places. Though we hear about the Holocaust, we read about other things of this nature. But in American schools they do not teach or speak about the things they did wrong, the horrible things that were done to these people. The horrid conditions they were forced into, the horrid treatment they received. No we don't read about that, we're not taught about that. Nor do we read about how in the 1970's many many Native women were sterilized without their knowledge or consent. So no, the Native Americans are not viewed as "special" in fact it's quite the opposite, not viewed at all. Almost forgotten, really. Ignored. And still treated and viewed as second class people.

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Best post and eloquently put! Now if they would only return the Black Hills.

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Then that is not civilized. We have to progress beyound that if we are suppose to be. I guess you think than it was okay what the Nazis did to the Jews, because that was surivial of the fittess.


His philospohy is exactly what ethnic cleansing and genocide is based on. So of course he thinks what the nazi's did to the Jews is ok. Because his surivial of the fitest philosophy makes him sound just like a Nazi or some white Supremisist group member. Other then that did you read how he talked about other races. So I am sure he worships at the shrine of Uncle Adolph. Call 911, because the nuts are out tonight. I will ignore him because it is not in my fashion to listen to these nut cases.

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Technically speaking, we didn't take their land, we bought it.

The United States government has spent upwards of nearly one billion dollars in purchasing tribal lands. This is not to say that all of these financial transactions were fair and equitable, or that the means and methods used were honest. Calling the Indian Removal Act "voluntary" certainly stretches the definition of the word, or as Thomas Jefferson once said, "it is true that these purchases were sometimes made with the price in one hand and the sword in the other."

So although it can definitely be argued against from a moral standpoint, technically speaking, the land wasn't taken, it was bought.

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The U.S. took the Black Hills, didn't buy them.

Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

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Whites had all the power and still tried to give them something. It's not our fault the savages couldn't evolve and survive.

Tried to give them something that was already theirs. What kind of fu ckin' stupid statement is this?
They're lucky we didn't just off em all.

An estimated 50 million or about 12.5 million per 100 year clip from 1492 until 1890 sounds like a lot of people, smart guy.


Ignore/Idiots '07: rimeshot, culture warrior, hmcphee, dinoperson867, JakeHeke08

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Yes, I do agree with you, jcivitatus, Natives did suffer a silent physical and ethnic genocide. At first, it was outright killing, then killing of a culture. And the worst part? Hardly any "average Americans" are aware of this--they think that Natives are just some race all pissed off because the whites took their land. More was taken than land!

The poverty on the reservations in my state is devastating. However, part of the poverty problem is because of what the government gives to Natives. They give free houses, healthcare, and other things. This creates an attitude on the reservation--if I am given these things without working why should I work? Also, because these things are not earned, you see destruction of the houses and abuse of the free heathcare, because there is no pride attached to these things. The government's "help" does more harm than anything. This was even seen in Bury My Heart--the Natives that came to the medicine window for free handouts of "brown bottles."

In order for Natives to make an advancement and get out of poverty, the action needs to come from within the Native community. There can be no handouts--the change needs to be made from within. Society and the government can help by giving grants to help entrepreneurs or students, as long as they establish a viable business or complete their degree. Putting the power of money in the hands of those Natives who are motivated would be a positive start to get reservations out of their poverty slump.

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As important as it is for us to remember the past, it's even more important for us to respond to what is going on in the present. At present, some reservations are thriving due to tourism and casinos. Some, however, have third world living conditions. Unemployment, diabetes, alcoholism, poor education systems...these are all running rampant on some reservations.

As we look to the past, let's not get caught up. These things happened. What's important is moving on while honoring the past. Helping those who need help until they have the ability to help themselves seems a little more pertinent.

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jbludorn, your post is, by far, the most intelligent and accurate one I've read tonight.

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Hey, listen Native Americans got the raw end of a stick.

I dont think we "whites" got to together and decided to cleanse the world of Indians. Sorry, its like anything in the world. Two 'species' (not implying anything negative) are fighting for the same land and space, and one is going to win. Whites won. Indians couldnt adapt to technology or growing numbers.

Sorry.

I didnt do it, I dont want my tax dollars going to someone I dont know or frankly care about, that goes for people of ALL races, of ALL creeds. Make your own way in this world, despite your upbrining and surrodning.

No one is helping me out. I dont scream genocide against the McDonald clan in 1304? I could have been a Scottish Thane, wheres my humanity check?

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Is the McDonald clan an entire race? Are they still suffering nowadays? Do they endure prejudice? Hell no! Besides, Genocide is strictly a term for wiping out a race or ethnicity, like Jews or Darfurians.

You'll all call me crazy, but I'm not crazy, I'm the only one who's not crazy!

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Besides, Genocide is strictly a term for wiping out a race or ethnicity, like Jews or Darfurians.

But the Jews and people of Darfur weren't wiped out. Therefore can genocide be applied? Because the Indian was nearly wiped out. According to the 1890 census there were only about 250,000 recorded to be alive and they were penned up on reservations like animals.



Ignore/Idiots '07: rimeshot, culture warrior, hmcphee, dinoperson867, JakeHeke08

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Some good comments made here, and some ignorant ones. I think a wise man named Black Elk would just tell us, if he were alive, to "smoke the herb of understanding and let there be no more bad between us." We have created so much, yet we have destroyed so much too. The U.S. has become the true White Man's world, the way it was predicted by the Natives more than a century ago. Too many of those damn wasichus.


"Funny thing, killin' a man. You take away all he's got, and all he's ever gonna have."

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I do not get people.

Are Indians a race? No they are a group of people who culturally lived together for thousands of years. We are a race. The human race.

The McDonalds were a group of people who, others plotted to totally whip out and would have if a few didnt escape. Am I suffereing today? No but I could have been better off had that not happened is my point. Are there scottish people suffering today...yes because of English oppresion. Like Prima Noctre and other acts of real ethnic cleansing. Again where is my check for humantiy?

I didnt do anything against Native Americans. Why should I have to clean up for something that happened years ago?

You know what...just because you are Italian doesnt mean you need a humanity check becasue you may have been forced to fight in a slave arena.

Jsut drop the whole concept of different races amongst humans and racism and alot of these problems will go away.

People will be poor and start out with *beep* lives, its up to them to make it better...they are not entitled to anything.

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Um, just how exactly are the Scots today suffering 'English oppression' then? Prima Noctre?? A term you probably learned from watching the mad Australians Braveheart film?? You know, the one who thinks he is God's personal Movie Director, Anti Semite and an alcoholic??

I'm sure Edward Longshanks did order this to breed Scots out but I'm pretty sure Tony Blair hasnt. We're not 'ethnic cleansing' Scots you burke (hey, thats a Scottish word I believe!).

You actually used your own argument against yourself. You claim Native Americans shouldn't whine because you personally didnt do it and yet you are trying to show the Scots are a persecuted race. England has a lot to answer for globally but please put it into context.

I certainly wont be marching up to Glasgow to claim my right to a fine wee Scots girl because er, I'm pretty sure - no definite - that would be illegal.

yer big numpty.

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[deleted]

Ok well run that by all your family and friends and see if they want to up and move for a bunch of people they dont even know, I am sure they will be willing to do that.

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[deleted]

I think the only real way now would be to give the Indians their own set of states. Just move everyone out from 3 states where they can live their lives in their tradition.

Tribes aren't asking for this, nor do they want any such thing. What they do want is to regain or protect what powers of self-determination they've had. Ever since their powers of sovereignty were diminished in the Marshall Trilogy rulings, it's been a constant erosion of what powers they've had, and it's only been in the last 35 years or so that they've begun to regain the "domestic dependent nation" status that Marshall labeled them with long ago.

It's not a question of giving them their own set of states. The United States federal government is the trustee, the tribes are the wards, and increasing the size of their reservation or giving them their own state or set of states isn't going to change that relationship.

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[deleted]

What I was saying is that they should be given their own 'country' within the borders of the USA.

I may not be quite following you, but.....no way. There's a reason that Marshall ruled the way he did in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia. The U.S. didn't want the tribes making treaties with foreign countries, specifically the British. If troubles arose, then the tribes would be able to negotiate with those countries to have their soldiers come and protect them, and since the colonists had just fought a war a half century before trying to defeat and expel those soldiers, the last thing the U.S. Government wanted was to have hostile foreign soldiers within its own borders. The tribes have a "quasi-sovereign" status, but I can't see any good reason for a completely separate, independent, self-governed country other than one we already have to exist within our borders.

Self-determination? Sorry...that's up to the individual.

True enough, but when it comes to the tribes, in the eyes and laws of the Federal Government, it takes on a whole different meaning covering everything from self-government and self-sufficiency to maintaining culture, customs and religion.

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Nanaharas i hope your a troll or something cause it pains me to communicate with someone as dumb as you are.

People dont have sense of honor anymore? Ok maybe...but is it honorable for me to give up MY house, and MY land that I bought and sweated for and fought for, because Native Americans couldnt adapt to techonlogy and got driven from their homes?

Well *beep* I guess ill go back to Scotland. No wait, id probably have to go to Scandanavia, since the Angles and Jutes kicked the Picts and Celts out....no wait Id have to go to the Steppes of Russia....aww *beep* lets just go to Mesopatamia.

Yeah lets make another Israel situation, you idiot.

Youd probably give a homeless black guy 50 bucks if he said he was on the streets cause of racism...cause its honorable.

Honor is a cultural thing. Honor to one person is honor to a completely different person.

Do you think its honorable to kill yourself if you get pregant out of marriage?

Talk to some japaneese teenagers.

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[deleted]

Hey Hutchinson shove it?

Wow really nice rebuttle. Shows off your intellect and arguable points very well. You really did sound very credible, intelligent, and respectable when you said that.

I hope everyone realizes what a great and wise man you truly are.

Is telling people to shove it the way to get that perfect world you bleeding heart liberal?

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