MovieChat Forums > Islam: What the West Needs to Know (2006) Discussion > Low-Budget Experts :)

Low-Budget Experts :)

posted 14 years ago by hughv28
23 replies | jump to latest

And after the show, the experts gathered together on a boat and sailed off to teach fishermen the real art of fishing.

To be an expert on something, you have to live it. Islam is a way of life.

I wasn't surprised to see FOX News is the only real sponsor for this video. The reason you couldn't find an intelligent set of experts for this propaganda is simple. There aren't any.

One expert claimed that some versus in the Book cancel out other versus :) Then he said, he couldn't understand the Book without the use of other writings like Hadith, as supplement :)

There are nearly 2 Billion people on earth that live and breathe by this Book. When the call to prayer is chanted five times a day, a quarter of the earths population responds to this call every time.

Among them are top-notch scholars, world leaders, doctors, scientists, engineers and professionals of every rank. Check out what portion of the top guys at JPL are Muslims.

Jet Propulsion Laboratory - You know, the rocket scientists that build spaceships for NASA.

What cracked me up most was the elderly lady who commented on the quest to turn everyone Muslim. Lady, Islam is very particular about the fact that only the Lord can put religion into a person's heart. Whether it's Islam, Christianity or Judaism. Islam means willful surrender to the Lord.

Islam can not be understood over night, by glancing at a verse, or reading the Book in a week. It's a way of life. One can begin by reading the Book over in a year's time, slowly, grasping each verse with inner certainty before moving to the next, and the Lord will do the rest for you if He so wills.

Peace.

[–] r_cadell 14 years ago

^^An excellent post.

[–] ssseuth 14 years ago

2 billion? So many sheep?

[–] hughv28 14 years ago

dear ssseuth, i'm sure there's a decent community college close to where you live. you might wanna check it out... why not? right?

[–] rorydaulton 14 years ago

Did you pay close attention to the movie, Hughv28?

>To be an expert on something, you have to live it.

One of the commenters did indeed "live the life" and was a member of the PLO. Even so, it is often helpful to get an outsider's perspective on something. I am a Christian, but I benefit from the comments of non-Christians (and indeed I regularly seek out such comments). And the people in the film did not pretend to be experts in all aspects of Islam, just in the few points that were emphasized in the film.

If you want to discredit the movie, you need to point out actual statements that were made that are not true and give some supporting evidence. I do not see that you have done that in your post.

> One expert claimed that some versus [sic] in the Book cancel out other versus [sic]:) Then he said, he couldn't understand the Book without the use of other writings like Hadith, as supplement :)

Yes, they did say those things. Are you seriously denying those things? Do you deny the existence of the doctrine of Abrogation, and that some statements in the Quran contradict earlier statements? (Some of those verses were quoted in the film.) Do you deny that many statements in the Quran are not intelligible without the context which the Hadith supplies? (I have seen many such verses in the Quran.)

> There are nearly 2 Billion people on earth that live and breathe by this Book [...]

That figure seems to be inflated. But even if true or nearly true, what does that have to do with the themes of the film? How does that contradict even a single statement by the interviewees? Could you actually supply some *examples* and *evidence* of falsity in the movie?

> [...] the elderly lady who commented on the quest to turn everyone Muslim.

Bat Ye'or and the others were very clear that Islam technically does not try to "turn everyone Muslim." They claimed that Islam does try to turn everyone to obey Shariah (Islamic law), and that non-Muslims would have second-class status under Shariah. They supported these claims with quotes from the Quran and from the Hadith as well as examples from history.

> Islam means willful surrender to the Lord.

I believe that the word "Islam" simply means surrender. Where is the concept of "willful" in the derivation of that word?

> Islam can not be understood over night, by glancing at a verse, or reading the Book in a week.

Nonsense! Islam is a fairly simple religion (or so missionaries for Islam have told me). The basics can be understood in ten minutes. I have taught the good news of Jesus (what you might call Christianity) to people, and a child can understand the basics of the Gospel in ten minutes or so. Islam is not more difficult to understand. Both Christianity and Islam have depths that take a long time to understand, but the movie was not talking about such depths.

So, do you actually disagree with anything stated in the film? If so, which statements, and where is the evidence that those statements are false? (I have no brief for the film, but I did not see any falsehoods proclaimed by the movie and would like you to point any out.)

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] hughv28 14 years ago

thank you for your reply.

i did not watch the movie carefully. not big on tv, film, media and my time is better spent in prayer and serving my purpose rather than debating individual statements from these iniquitous people - are you kidding :) that contradicts my faith.

my original post was for clarification only

this may sound funny, but it makes me uncomfortable to talk about this subject with anyone, unless i know they have thoroughly cleansed and purified themselves with water after having last satisfied a need of nature. so forgive me if i don't keep the argument going without assurances.

i'll will address your questions from top down:

first one:

i don't consider someone who was "formerly" muslim and now something else, to have lived the life of Islam. It simply doesn't work that way. if you don't get what i'm saying, we're simply on different pages of faith.

the simple fact remains - these folks are not muslims. they know nothing about Islam except what they have gathered from others. a confused mess of fragments.

who knows more about cars, Ford engineers or folks that read hotrod magazines? if you think the latter may possibly know more, then our philosophy differs.

what's so hard to understand about what i'm saying?

same thing is true between you and I. I am a life-long muslim, but all you know about Islam are fragments you've picked up from others. and now you are debating with me in favor of other folks who have gathered their knowledge through others as well.

you seem like very fair, genuine, loving and caring person by your writing and disposition. but you are not a worthy adversary in the subject matter of Islam, i'm afraid. neither are the folks in this film.

next:

the foremost fundamental about the book of truth is that it is complete in and of itself. if you don't know this, you know nothing about it! muslims know this very well.

hadith and sharia are wonderful, but they not supplements to understanding the Lord's (SWT) revelations. His (SWT) revelations are pure - clear in and of themselves.

muhammad asad's tasfir of the book of truth explains this misconception regarding abrogation in great detail. yes, i am denying it. it's just another thing people've "heard".

next:

the question part of your statement is repetitive, was addressed already.

next:

you might be right, i may have misunderstood her. i thought i heard her say something like: muslims are on a quest to turn everyone else muslim too, which is far from the truth. turning people's hearts and minds towards revelations through Christianity, Islam or Judaism is only for the Lord (SWT).

next:

yes, Islam means "willful surrender" to the Lord (SWT)- one can be forced to "surrender", that wouldn't count

next:

I would like to ask you a favor of writing PBUH (peace be upon him) when mentioning the name of Jesus (PBUH) son of Mariam (PBUH), or any other prophet.

this is not a subject that has a "basic" version. you either live for the Lord (SWT) or you don't.

what are you talking about - "basic" versus what?

who are these folks? talking about the greatest subject in life, without belonging? what is all this nonsense? my original post was just for clarification, not for debating with these goofballs

[–] cjoklb 14 years ago

you seem like very fair, genuine, loving and caring person by your writing and disposition. but you are not a worthy adversary in the subject matter of Islam, i'm afraid. neither are the folks in this film.

It's very telling that your long, rambling posts contain absolutely no valid arguments that contradict anything in the documentary. You even admitted that you "did not watch the movie carefully." So, predictably, you resort to the only thing Muslims can do when confronted with the facts of their own religion... try to discredit your opponent and then quickly try and change the subject.

The biggest adversary to Islam is the truth, which is that Muhammad was a pedophile mass murderer who beheaded between 600 and 900 young men and boys in the Banu Qurayza tribe AFTER they surrendered. He married a 6 year old girl and raped her when she was 9. He was also an illiterate thief, and a liar. I will give credit where credit is due, though. He was very smart. His lie about going into a cave and being approached by the angel Gabriel allowed him to go from a poor peasant to a rich, powerful warlord. He indulged in every humanly desire there is. He kept many sex slaves too. Despite all of this, about 1.5 billion people on the planet Earth consider him to be "the perfect man" and should be emulated for all time. It just goes to show you how stupid human beings are.

I know why you are here... you just can't stand that infidels are learning about the real Islam. People are starting to wake up and realize that Islam is not, never has been, nor ever will be, a "religion of peace" and you want to do your part in keeping us blind and ignorant. Unfortunately for you, there are many right now working to expose Islam and inform the free world what a dangerous death cult your religion is. Islam will be defeated just like any other fascist ideology in history, whether it be Nazism, communism, etc.

Take your taqiyya elsewhere.

[–] hughv28 14 years ago

drugs??

[–] cjoklb 14 years ago

Thanks for showcasing that you bring absolutely nothing of value to this discussion.

[–] cjoklb 14 years ago

I would like to ask you a favor of writing PBUH (peace be upon him) when mentioning the name of Jesus (PBUH) son of Mariam (PBUH), or any other prophet.

No. We are not Muslims, and Sharia is not the law of the land in our free country, so we are under no obligation to conform to your religion and beliefs. Don't like it? Move to Saudi Arabia.

[–] hughv28 14 years ago

huh?

[–] snnj10 14 years ago

"huh?"- is this all you got to say? the poster above must have hammered you senseless

[–] hughv28 14 years ago

rule #1: don't argue with idiots :-)

[–] cjoklb 14 years ago

rule #1: don't argue with idiots :-)

Says the Muslim who follows the teachings of an illiterate pedophile mass murderer named Muhammad.

[–] hughv28 14 years ago

correction to rule #1: don't argue with angry idiots :-)

[–] snnj10 14 years ago

ok, so why don't you try to contradict the ex-muslim poster's review on the first page? (jarzan2003 from Vancouver, B.C.)

I am talking about nasikh, taquiya, etc. Can you refute his arguments?

[–] cjoklb 14 years ago

He can't refute anything in this documentary, which is why he has done nothing besides trying to discredit the film and the people featured in the film.

Literally, every single line is filled with an ad-hominem of some kind. First, he argues that since these experts are not Muslims, they can't understand Islam because "Islam is a way of life." Wrong. One does not need to be a Muslim in order to understand what Islam teaches. This is like saying that Roger Ebert can't understand movies enough to criticize them because he does not make movies himself. Clearly, this kind of logic is faulty.

Next, he says that because FOX News is a sponsor, all of the data in the documentary is wrong because, in the OP's opinion, FOX News is not a reliable source.

He then makes the claim that because Islam has "nearly 2 billion" members (actually, closer to 1.5 billion but hey, why not round up a half a billion people?), and that some Muslims are "top-notch scholars, world leaders, doctors, scientists, engineers and professionals of every rank", then there can't possibly be something fundamentally wrong with Islam. Incorrect. There were some very smart people in the Nazi party, but that doesn't mean that Nazi fascism was a good thing.

Next post...

this may sound funny, but it makes me uncomfortable to talk about this subject with anyone, unless i know they have thoroughly cleansed and purified themselves with water after having last satisfied a need of nature. so forgive me if i don't keep the argument going without assurances.

This is simply a cop-out excuse for not being able to argue against anything the previous poster said. By insinuating that other people are not worthy of an explanation, the OP is demonstrating an Islamic supremacist attitude in response to infidels, who, according to the Qur'an, are "the vilest of all creatures." (Quran 8:55).

i don't consider someone who was "formerly" muslim and now something else, to have lived the life of Islam. It simply doesn't work that way. if you don't get what i'm saying, we're simply on different pages of faith.

Another cop-out. Basically, if you can't understand his gibberish, it's because you're not a faithful Muslim like he is.

you seem like very fair, genuine, loving and caring person by your writing and disposition. but you are not a worthy adversary in the subject matter of Islam, i'm afraid. neither are the folks in this film.

He knows he can't defend Islam from the accusations made in this documentary, so he just says that it's all wrong, but won't explain why, because you're not good enough or worthy enough of an explanation. The truth is, he knows he will get shot down if he tries.

I would like to ask you a favor of writing PBUH (peace be upon him) when mentioning the name of Jesus (PBUH) son of Mariam (PBUH), or any other prophet.

He then has the audacity to pressure you into conforming to an element of Sharia law, despite the fact that you are in a free country. Muslims are required to put PBUH after the mentioning of any Islamic prophet, and they believe that all people should do the same. Remember, the goal of Muslims is to bring all people and nations into the dar al-Islam, and in Islamic societies, non-Muslims are second class citizens who are under the rule of Muslims. They are trying to force their culture and religion onto us, whether we like it or not.

[–] James_Dorman 14 years ago

This is the most intelligent, scathing response I've ever seen on IMDB.

[–] snnj10 14 years ago

seconded

[–] Warge 13 years ago

thirded

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My vote list: http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=21936262

[–] motleycorn 14 years ago

YEP, that was an excellent response.

I TOO was offended by the request for non-muslims to put(PBUH)into their posts.

NO SHARIA and NO HALAL. NO room for argument.

That being said, this Canadian needs to go draw a MoToon.

To include or not include his 6 year old, and favourite wife, Aisha in this MoToon? hmmm

[–] James_Dorman 14 years ago

Add her, the Muslims need to be reminded that their prophet was a pedophilic, disgusting child rapist.

[–] dontheproducer 13 years ago

I hear what is being said on this board about Islam and whether it is a dangerous religion or not. But what it really boils down to is the cherry-picking of ideas. I like this documentary a lot because it shows a bare bones portrayal of this religion/societal construct. You have a panel of experts on the religion and individuals who were part of the faith and almost no bias is shown through cinematics, music or the like. This is what a real documentary should be.

Islam at it's core is a faith that requires absolutely NO leeway on any other faiths and is not apologetic about its beliefs. This is true of Christianity as well but in a more passive way. In layman's terms, a traditional Muslim would say that all infidels are wrong and must be treated as second-class citizens while a traditional Christian would say that all non-believers are wrong and will see their punishment in the end. Those of each religion who do not share in these beliefs are simply cherry-picking at their religion (picking the parts that they like).

Don The Producer
Think for Yourself. Listen to Adam.
askadamleague.com