GAWD BLESS MURICA


Am I the only one who was seriously put off by the Americanisation of it?

She says at one point in the film "soccer ball" when asking Rudy about the contents of his bag. Really? "Soccer>"? Germans say Fussball which directly translates to football. I could get over the fact that they were speaking mostly English, but to say a word that is neither used in England or Germany seemed ridiculous.

Then near the end, when the war is lost it says at the bottom of the screen "US troops occupy Germany". Oh did they now? No Russian, British or French involvement? Was it really that hard for them to say "Allied forces occupy Germany"? It was the Russians who got to Berlin first anyway so why are the Americans getting all the credit?

The Apple product placement right at the end wasn't even half subtle. It took most of the screen up.

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I know what you mean but the film is an American/German co production so for the sake of Americans it is a soccer ball,and yes I was surprised that the "US TROOPS OCCUPY GERMAN" but if they had said allies it might have confused people since they were showing American soldiers.

I was amazed that the locals were cheering the American troops,I don't believe that happened too much in Germany.

Your points are valid,but don't forget that the Americans played a huge part in liberating europe.
The film,which I liked,seemed almost a children's tale so we should not expect the story too be very complicated?

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Your points are valid,but don't forget that the Americans played a huge part in liberating europe


We could hardly forget, these days, that America played a huge role in liberating Europe.

Though it's evidently easy to forget that Britain and Russia played a huge role.



The cheering - yes - very odd, indeed. Not quite in line with historical reality.

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They could not show all the allies so they showed the Americans I guess.


If you look at the page for the film BLACK BOOK you see people complaining that the Canadian army is shown liberating Holland even although this is historically accurate.
In SAVING PRIVATE RYAN the only reference to the British is a negative comment by Tom Hanks.

On the other hand in THE MONUMENTS MEN the characters keep bumping into cheery British troops.

I am looking forward to the Russian film about the cooperation between nazi Germany and the USSR in 1939-1941.

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I am looking forward to the Russian film about the cooperation between nazi Germany and the USSR in 1939-1941.

Don't be. Although Russia itself is beginning to look more and more like the late '30-s Germany (propaganda, personality cult, intolerance, invasive doctrine etc.), those pages of history have been burned and forgotten in Russia a long time ago, and the authorities are doing their utmost to make sure they stay forgotten.

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Sadly, I think you will have to wait a very long time for that Russian film.
When I was in Russia many years ago, a woman asked me whether we (that is the UK)
were in the war. It is still controversial to adhere to the belief that the surprise attack on the Soviet Union succeeded because Stalin changed the defense
doctrine of the military and believed that German and France would fight each other until they would both be exhausted and then the Red Army would sweep across Europe and conquer it all both East and West. Google "Viktor Suvorov" and "The Icebreaker" for more info. I actually met the author some years ago and he seemed to know what he was talking about.

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Sadly, I think you will have to wait a very long time for that Russian film.
When I was in Russia many years ago, a woman asked me whether we (that is the UK)
were in the war. It is still controversial to adhere to the belief that the surprise attack on the Soviet Union succeeded because Stalin changed the defense
doctrine of the military and believed that German and France would fight each other until they would both be exhausted and then the Red Army would sweep across Europe and conquer it all both East and West. Google "Viktor Suvorov" and "The Icebreaker" for more info. I actually met the author some years ago and he seemed to know what he was talking about.

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Sadly, I think you will have to wait a very long time for that Russian film.
When I was in Russia many years ago, a woman asked me whether we (that is the UK)
were in the war. It is still controversial to adhere to the belief that the surprise attack on the Soviet Union succeeded because Stalin changed the defense
doctrine of the military and believed that German and France would fight each other until they would both be exhausted and then the Red Army would sweep across Europe and conquer it all both East and West. Google "Viktor Suvorov" and "The Icebreaker" for more info. I actually met the author some years ago and he seemed to know what he was talking about.

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as an American I can appreciate your remarks about Britain and Russia, however the truth of the matter is that Britain was the "last man standing" when it came to the German onslaught and if not for FDR sending war supplies to Britain via the lend-lease program well, history would be much different. Russia was also the "last man standing" on the eastern front and through willpower and a knowledge of their winters and how to survive them they managed to defeat the Germans. But enough history lessons for the day, I am anxious to watch this movie and am also a little surprised at the soccer ball comment, hell most American's know that the sport is called football outside of the US and the producers should have given us a little more credit than that.

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Don't be coy:), I enjoy history lessons. Are you in some way suggesting that while the British, Russian and American contributions were all 'huge', the US contribution was somehow the most significant?

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Americans have NEVER forgotten how Britain and Russia played huge role. We were ALLIES. In school, it is taught...over and over again. The ALLIES vs. THE AXIS. Not sure why every time I'm on IMDb blog, some Brit or European is always downing America for how they make movies.

When America makes a film, sometimes the director (NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS AT LARGE) makes decision to use terms which are different than European. Who cares how they refer to soccer??

Stop having an inferiority complex over a film's words. And once again, it's NOT AMERICANS AT LARGE who make these decisions. So, all you Europeans and Brits stop saying....."Why do those Americans do this or that, or say this or that in a movie...?" - WE have no control over it. Just like you have no control over how bad Downton Abbey's 4th season is horrible.

(Yes, we know Russia went into Germany. It was discussed by the military and the politicians on which nation would be located where to free people) - VERY political!

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I agree with you but BRITISH people are europeans and Scottish people are British.

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well it might depend where the pub is but many British people know they are europeans even if they don't like the EU,and all Scottish people are British as a matter of fact.

Not everybody in Britain is a SUN READING UKIP VOTING ignorant person.
Glad to say that not everybody in Scotland is a Scottish Nationalist.

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Well, as an American of Scot and Irish ancestry (and German too), I would be delighted to see both Scotland and the whole of the island of Ireland become totally independent nations. The time to reverse the abuses of the English is long overdue. What the English did to the Irish and Scots (and Indians) was not that different than what Stalin did to the Ukraine and what Hitler did to Poland.

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American of Scot and Irish ancestry (and German too),


Nice to know where your irrational prejudices come from.

What the English did to the Irish and Scots (and Indians) was not that different than what Stalin did to the Ukraine and what Hitler did to Poland.


You're either a Stalin apologist or a Neo Nazi.

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What the English did to the Irish and Scots (and Indians) was not that different than what Stalin did to the Ukraine and what Hitler did to Poland.


Or the Americans did to indian americans (let us just NOT refer to the african americans for a second to do you some favors). I mean I'm not Brit but how 'bout everybody looks at his/her own nation's hump before pointing out the ones of others huh?

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At no point did Russia have any intention of liberating Europe. In fact, quite the opposite, they were on a mission to claim territory to join the communist cause and reshape the political map of Europe. The Russians were on a mission for vengeance against the Germans, raping and pillaging as they drove towards Berlin. The Russians don't get much credit for the liberation of Europe because they were just as bad as the Nazis for human rights violations.

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True. The people of Poland sure didn't seem to feel very liberated, that's for sure.


I got girls up here do more tricks than a god damn monkey on a hundred yards of grape vine.

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Not to point out the obvious since you probably just phrased it awkwardly, but Russia played no role in liberating Europe. Quite the opposite. They helped defeat the Nazis, but they were themselves every bit as bad and enslaved half of Europe for decades more after the war. If I come upon some poor fellow being robbed and I chase off the robber, but then take the victim's money for myself should I really get any credit for stopping a robbery? And we have the little issue of Stalin being a much greater butcher than even Hitler was. Hollywood just doesn't like to make movies about that though.

Americans get accused of provincialism a lot, but it happens with Western Europeans as well since they seem to forget their brothers in the East did not fare so well with the outcome of the war and needed liberating themselves. The Russian dissidents will tell you that it took Reagan and 'Murica to even give them any hope of changing things.

Outside of that I found it odd that sometimes the movie used the English pronunciations of words and other times they used the German. Also, they would switch between using a German word and the English word which is its equivalent in an annoying and inconsistent manner. I don't remember them all now but "no" and "nein" come to mind. Several times I was taken out of the movie because of this since it was clear the director could not make up his mind how he wanted to handle the problem of German characters speaking English.

But I would never say something stupid and condescending like "the devil with Europe" over it because that would just show my own bigotry. It is really not acceptable to mock America because a director did a poor job handling a common problem in movies which are meant for various markets.

I guess if I were to try to defend the director's inconsistency I would say that Lissell apparently spent most of her life in the US (if I remember the ending well enough since it has been a while since I saw it). Immigrants often mix words from their native tongue and their adopted one. "Football" would be one she would have to drop because that word is taken in the US by another sport. No one would understand her. So while she could get away with using "nein" since it is commonly understood she would not have that option with football or any variation of it. If she were thinking back and writing any of this down it would be difficult to say which words she would choose. It would likely depend on her intended audience, just as the director here hedged things to where he thought he might get the biggest box office. I don't think that is a strong argument since the director failed to clearly establish that point, but it would have made at least some sort of sense.

The rather contrived conceit where Mr. Death narrated the tale seemed kluged on. That didn't really add anything at all in my opinion and should have been scrapped since the story was really told from Lissel's point of view. The only time we got a perspective other than hers was when the narration was present. And the only real point of film making and story telling is to make us forget our own mortality and our own lives for a while. We don't need to be reminded that no one gets out alive. Pointing out the survivors in this story eventually died is like pointing out that they often relieve themselves or breath in and out. It doesn't add anything at all.

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Yes, I'm rather mortified that I said the Russians liberated Europe - arguably they enabled the western allies to liberate Europe but the Russian occupation of the non axis countries of Eastern Europe cannot be described in any way as a 'liberation'.

Americans get accused of provincialism a lot, but it happens with Western Europeans as well since they seem to forget their brothers in the East did not fare so well with the outcome of the war and needed liberating themselves.


I'd probably say the Western Europeans are probably worse than the Americans at this.

It is really not acceptable to mock America because a director did a poor job handling a common problem in movies which are meant for various markets.


The accents and word switching was a bit jarring but what stuck out for me was the liberation scene - eg US troops occupy Germany and German civilians cheering (?), waving US flags. The representation is far from the truth, but I wouldn't criticise the 'Americans' for it, especially as the director and writer were English and Australian.

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Yeah, like when the Russians liberated Poland...and Czechoslovakia...and Hungary...and Austria...and Romania...and Bulgaria...oh wait, the Russians didn't actually liberate anyone, did they?


I got girls up here do more tricks than a god damn monkey on a hundred yards of grape vine.

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The book was written by an Australian author.
Here a Football is a far different thing...
Hence the Soccer ball reference.

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I was amazed that the locals were cheering the American troops,I don't believe that happened too much in Germany.


In the scene the adults are indifferent to the rolling trucks. It was probably months into the occupation so nothing special about U.S. Army trucks passing through town. The kids excitedly chase the trucks, probably because GI's were famous for handing out sweets.

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It's interesting, I don't recall hearing her using the word soccer so I wonder if either it didn't register with me or if they replaced some dialogue for the american release.

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People here think that the word soccer,along with other words that I can't recall at the moment were used in the film to help the American audience?

The film is odd because sometimes it is almost a children/Disney sort of film but it deals with adult themes.

I don't mind the soccer ball stuff but the Germans cheering the American liberators did annoy me,the Germans might have grown to know and like their occupiers but I don't think they cheered them in 1945?

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I don't think it's entirely unrealistic that they were cheering, If you're a german after years of bombing and war you'll probably welcome the americans rolling peacefully into town when the alternative was the Russians who weren't really known for rolling peacefully into town.
There was probably a bit more too it then the "American liberators" but I think people like to look at these things through the lens of recent events like Iraq etc so suddenly it looks like some sort of propaganda to them even though it was different circumstances back then.

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Cheering crowds is unrealistic to the extent that it never happened.

It also gives the misleading impression that the US and British were welcomed - which they were not. From the German point of view, these were exactly the people that had been bombing them and killing their soldiers. Also, it's important not to ignore the fact many were still Nazis, and of those who were not, there were many who were traditionally German - proud, rather xenophobic, very suspicious of democracy and the individual. Even if a German welcomed the allies, I doubt they would show it for fear of what their neighbours might do. The mentality of conformity is what made the Gestapo so successful.

Another way to look at it is from the UK and US point of view - They declared themselves to be the 'conquerors' not the 'liberators'. The German people were an enemy population and fraternisation with this enemy civilian population was forbidden for many years after the war. These people were seen as possibly beyond redemption - In its 70 year history Germany was mainly characterised by autocracy, aggressive militarism and war.

When we look back at 1945 from 2014, we see the Germans through the lens of the past 70 years, and not the 70 years prior to WW2. It might seem reasonable that the democratic, peaceful Germans of today would have welcomed the US and UK - but historically it is completely wrong.

It's interesting what you say about Iraq - implication being that crowds welcoming US troops must be propaganda - because as we soon discovered, the Iraq liberation quickly turned into insurgency.

Occupation didn't turn into insurgency in Germany because the allies were far more brutal than in Iraq.

Most of the able bodied men were sent to prison camps in allied countries, in Iraq, the US was stupid enough to sack all the soldiers and send them home, where they could do nothing else but seethe and plot.

Iraqis were quickly installed in the occupation administration. Germans were completely excluded from administration (except, ironically in the Soviet zone).

Bad Nenndorf made Abu Ghraib look like a five star hotel.

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When the Allies occupied Berlin there were no cheering crowds that I can remember reading about. That's not to say Germans were not happy to see American troops and not Soviet troops.

Most German women were glad if they saw Americans because it meant the odds of them being raped and their children going hungry went way down.

But later there were cheering Germans when the Americans airlifted food into Berlin.

Soccer or football? They are equally stupid to me. I think showing Germans at the end of WWII cheering anything or anyone is just as stupid.

I can't remember who the occupation governor was right now. Neither can I remember enough to quote this accurately. When he first spoke to the civilians he told them something like they could expect to be treated at least as well as they have treated the rest of the world for the last six or eight years. Then he started feeding them.

As far as who "won" WWII goes... Being an American and old enough to have personally known WWII vets I wish I could say that everything we did was great. That's not exactly true but we did send our sons and husbands to fight someone else's war. Before Japan brought us into the war the average American did not want to fight that war. By the time we entered the war the British had taken a beating. I don't say that in a disrespectful way either because I think we should have helped sooner. Had it not been for the never quitting British the Americans would not had a war to fight. Hitler would have ran over them who knows how things would have ended. At the same time if the Americans had not helped supply the British with arms, etc. they would have fell sooner than later.

But no, there were no cheering Germans at the end of WWII that I have ever heard of.

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Hitler would have ran over them who knows how things would have ended. At the same time if the Americans had not helped supply the British with arms, etc. they would have fell sooner than later.


This point of view, which seems to be believed by all Americans (at least in this thread) is the one that leads them to assume that America did indeed win WW2 (ie does deserve the credit). The logic goes that while there were other allies - the most important contribution was the American because the USSR and UK would not have existed if it were not for the US.

Hence, the logic goes, it is ok to ignore (downplay or even criticise - SPR) other allies' efforts in film (eg US TROOPS OCCUPY GERMANY) and complaining Brits etc just have an inferiority complex.

The quoted point of view is incorrect. Germany could not beat the British (even without lend lease support for UK). US support did not 'save' Britain, it only allowed the UK to continue the war. Likewise, US support did not 'save' the USSR.

Of course, US involvement was essential to winning the war. But UK and USSR involvement was equally essential to winning the war. The UK could not have won the war if the USA wasn't in it - but also, the USA could not have won if the UK weren't in it.



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Complete fiction, the notion Germans cheered for Americans coming into their towns. That was what happened in Italy and France, but never so in Germany. The Italians and French were being freed from the Gertman yoke, so they cheered. The Germans BENEFITTED FINANCIALLY throughout the war FROM the war, as Germany sucked billions of dollars from the nations they occupied to pay for the war, to keep German taxes low, to spread among the Germans the wealth they stole from the Jews and each nation they plundered. See the mountain of facts to this end in "Hitler's Beneficiaries" by Gotz Aly, 431 pages (2005). The US was seen as part of the forces that ended the party, and plunged Germany into states of destruction and impoverishment. That's how the German people saw the US rolling into town. That it was Hitler's fault was like blaming the end of Christmas on Santa.

~ Native Angeleno

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Hitler would have ran over them who knows how things would have ended


If you enjoy reading I highly recommend a book by C. J. Sansom called Dominion. Obviously it's fiction but it's written in an alternate universe Britain where Churchill didn't win the elections and Britain did indeed fold and became a member of the axis. A fascinating and terrifying read!

As for who actually won WW2 http://www.oxidayfoundation.org/the-story-of-oxi-day/the-story/ ;)

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I know it's hard for you anti-American idiots to admit, but the United States won WWII. America does deserves the credit. If not for us, Europe would've been immersed in a devastating war that could have gone on for years. Europe would look totally different today. If we want to say "US troops occupy Germany" then too bad, but it's the truth. This may have been a small town in what was once West Germany, so it's accurate. Tough toenails.

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I am not anti American (see my many posts on IMDB)and I understand that the film mentions the Americans because the town where the film is set was in an area occupied by the Americans,but people mention it because the role of the other allies is often overlooked in films and films are where so many people get their history lessons.
I say this not just about Americans but people from everywhere,I am British.

I saw Monument Men recently and it is a good but not a great film but I liked the way they showed the British led forces occupying Belgium and Holland.
I say British led because I wonder if people understand that British empire/commonwealth troops from all over the world took part in World War 2?


(I was in Banff Canada in 1988,in a park a army cadet band were playing for free,they played MEN OF HARLECH,it was beautiful.
2 American tourists next to me said "I did not know Canada had an army",but I know there are ignorant people everywhere.)

Can we really say the US won World War 2,certainly the huge armed forces and the industrial might so well organised was crucial,but the USSR was also vital and if Britain had fallen in 1940 where would the allies have launched D DAY from?

World war 2,ALLIED VICTORY,AXIS DEFEAT,there is a quote about blood (Russia)Time (Britain)but I forget what it is.

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Thank you jerryrip54 - you have just demonstrated the reason why many in the world hate Americans. I know, and am sure that there are, many intelligent and humble Americans. You, sir, are not one of them.

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The Allies, not the United States won World War II. Every Country that was involved (and many neutral ones too) all contributed to the victory. However, if you want to talk about who contributed the most, then you can't claim it was anyone other then the Soviet Union. World War II was, for all purposes, fought on Germany's Eastern front and, in the grander scheme of things, what happened in the West was irrelevant.

Just look at the casualties list for instance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The War was mostly fascism vs communism (natural enemies) and the democracies just had to choose a side.

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YOU are the idiot for your gross and arrogant ignorance. The Russians bore the brunt of the war by the Germans, and it was they who dealt the final deathblow to Naziism in Germany. The US, ther British AND the Canadians liberated Western Europe, but contributed less to defeating Hitler than the Russians.

To give you an idea of the gulf separating the contribution of the two countries to winning WW2, the Russians lost over 20 million fighting Hitler; the US in both the European and Pacific theaters lost 250,000, total. The Russians were allowed by the other three allies to occupy the largest chunk of Germany without argument.

Mull that over before you exhibit your foolishness the next time you make kneejerk gingoistic statements of fiction. Learn that you have been mislead by US propaganda to raise ourselves above all others, or as the Germans put it, equally delusionally, Deutschland Uber Alles.

~ Native Angeleno

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I wonder how many of those 20 million Russian deaths were doled out by their own comrades?

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And soccer ball is a direct translation of football. So?

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[deleted]

I didn't notice the soccer or the US troops - though I thought the cheering was something to be corrected.

U-571, SPR etc don't particularly bother me (the British can be just as inaccurate) but it is interesting seeing how our perception changes significantly over time, and the role that the media play.

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Still an American / German film.

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Who f-cking cares if it's "American/German"? It's in no way, shape, or form the American propaganda you or the OP wants to portray it as. Any attempts to do so only show your bias.

For my latest movie reviews and news:http://www.hesaidshesaidreviewsite.com/

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Well, it is an American film, arguably made for an audience which is mainly American. You may not realise it, but authors, filmmakers, writers etc, often take into account their audience (what they already know, what they speak) when telling a story etc.

Hence, the British director and/or Australian screenwriter or someone else chose the word 'soccer' instead of football to make it clear to an American audience. I can't really think of any other reason.

Similarly, 'US troops occupy Germany' is probably a simplification for clarity - and is of no concern considering the target audience is mainly American.

Thus, this is an 'Americanisation' and it is very interesting how Hollywood films 'Americanise' history, which of course they have to do to make it interesting, acceptable or accessible for their target audience.

This is all perfectly understandable, though there is the side effect that Americans' perceptions of the past are unduly influenced by an American perspective - which is subjective and therefore may not be accurate.

Still, nobody said anything about 'f-cking' propaganda.

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Still, nobody said anything about 'f-cking' propaganda.


I suppose this was a compliment then?

GAWD BLESS MURICA


For my latest movie reviews and news:http://www.hesaidshesaidreviewsite.com/

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It's clear what the OP meant if you read his opening post.

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It's time to lay this ridiculous argument to rest. Here's a FACT that no one has mentioned thus far:

The book on which this movie is based was written by an AUSTRALIAN. Not American, not British, not German.

In this book, the author uses the term "soccer," not "football."

The adapters of the script apparently chose to use the same word used by the book's author, an completely acceptable choice on the part of the filmmakers.

Now, doesn't this three-page blasting of one another's countries seem just a bit silly?

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Not sure why a British word is more appropriate for a German to say then an American.

But anyway....soccer is an American loan word from British English, it was coined by Brits in Britain, despite many associating it with America, it is as British as fish 'n' chips.

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Well, Americans really like to remind everyone that WWII was won by the Allied Forces thanks to their involvement, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again... But "God forbid" you mention some of the conflicts they've been involved in since then (hint: the US has lost quite a few).

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You’ll have to define loss. In Afghanistan and Iraq the US achieved what it set out to do--destroy Al Queda the former and regime change in the latter. The only other war that qualifies as a defeat was Vietnam and that indisputable was a defeat. But the real losers in that one were the Vietnamese. 40 years of authoritarian government after three decades of war equals a good 70 years of misery.

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The Americans liberated Stuttgart. The subtitle may be an overstatement, but in terms of the city the film is set in, it's true enough

Soccer/football, meh.

Hardly "Americanisation"

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The French captured Stuttgart. But anyway, I believe the film is set in a village near Munich which was captured by the US.

Of course, the US didn't 'liberate' Munich, they occupied it. At least the film got that right.

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