I believed in god and I prayed all the time all the way up until I was about 17, I remember I just started getting depressed.
I think just one day I realized that I didn't believe in it anymore then after that I started to feel better, like I started things a new.
Not really that much of a life changing story, but I bet other folks can do better. Let's hear your stories!
Only people with money say that money doesn't matter.
Mine is even more boring. I didn't even believe that much in the christian god, the god of the religion I grew up around, and I certainly didn't pray; that is, other than the occasional 'please don't have [insert cause] happen to me'-occurrences.
And even then my pleads weren't rectified the majority of the time; Only about the same amount of times as whenever I didn't bother to plead - praying in a nutshell.
Perhaps more than anything I wanted to believe in some universal karma; that if bad *beep* happened to you then you were promised good stuff in return. That was probably the one religious thing I clung onto the most during the worse times. But that was also a belief I dropped once I reached the age of reason because it obviously weren't any universal truth.
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Come, lovely child! Oh come thou with me!
For many a game I will play with thee!
I was never religious because I always knew the bible was crap but I know SEVERAL people who have left Christianity after seeing what a FRAUD it is. Look below to see how clearly Jesus was copied from Horus & other pagan gods!
Both were the ONLY begotten son, both of royal descent, both born in a cave, both had birth announcements by an angel, both births were heralded by a star, both have birth dates on the winter solstice, Shephard witnessed BOTH births, Herut tried to kill Horus while Herod tried to kill Jesus, both had rituals at age 12, both have data missing from age 12 to 30, both were baptized at age 30 and BOTH their baptizers were beheaded!
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm
Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!
You can also read this for more information on this subject:
http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/
WRONG Marsala! Your link has been thoroughly debunked! I have even spoken to a Christian pastor and even he ADMITTED that most of what you find in Christianity you can find in earlier religions too! Notice even a Christian clergyman found 80% similarity between Christianity and previous religions!
Plus if you do your research you'll find MANY gods before Jesus were called god, son of god, savior, performed miracles, born of a shepard,had disciples, resurrected, ascented to heaven, etc. There are CLEAR similarities and the official Christian position is to simply say "Satan did it" because they have NO explanation for the OBVIOUS fact most of the Jesus story was simply copied from previous gods!
From a response in the link itself:
With the utmost respect, your link to the touchstonemag is bias and not worthy of a academic citation, as its facts are in favour towards a Christians view and not historical facts. Pagans followed the seasons, especially in relation to the sun, such as the summer and winter solstice, and the Roman from the 270’s revered Sol Invictus (unconquered sun), and the Roman date for his birth and festival was December 25th. The first recorded Christian festival celebrating Christ’s birth was recorded in 354 CE.[http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_01_dedicatio.htm.] In the chronography of that year, part 12 clearly shows VIII kal. Ian natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae, which means 8 days before the calendar of January (Dec. 25th) for the birth of Christ in Bethlehem, Judaea.[http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_12_depositions_martyrs.htm] On the calendar of December for the 25th day, you will see the inscription N.INVICTI.CM.XXX, which is the birthday of the sun god Sol Invictus.[ibid part 6, at the bottom of the page when you scroll down]
The Roman Church chose this date to coincide with that of Sol Invictus festival.
further information that Christmas and Easter are of pagan origin, as Christianity adopted as many as 80% of practices from paganism, this is what the eminent theologian and scholar, Cardinal John Henry Newman (1801-90) on Christianity/Catholicism, wrote: …The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church….[Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, John Henry Newman, p. 373 (1906 edition)] Two of the seasons Newman was discussing as of Pagan origins are Christmas (Winter solstice) and Easter (Summer Solstice).
Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!
I KNOW that Dec 25 was orginally a pagon holiday and the Catholic Church chose that day to replace it with a day to celebrate Jesus' day of birth. Everyone Knows that his actual birthday is not known. Same with Easter. All though we do know that Jesus was crucified during the Jewish celebration of Passover. Over 400 years ago Martin Luther revealed that Roman Catholic church added saints, etc, etc, to their bible. That's why Christians don't pay attention to that stuff.
So what. They were making Catholicism the law of the land. They used those two pagon holidays. Big deal.
Of course there were Gods before Jesus. Everyone knows this. And as far as your friend the clergymen, you can say the same about all three Abrahamic religions. Judaism & Islam also. Why aren't you going after them? Trying to Disprove thier faith?
And think about this, Why does it mean SO Much to you? If I'm wrong, what's it to you? I live in a country were Everyone can believe what they want and we all live together. If I'm wrong what have I lost??? Nothing.
I KNOW I live a better life then I did before I discovered Christ.
I'm not going to get involved with megafauna and his beliefs, but just as a response to your second last paragraph, "If I'm wrong what have I lost?:
Well, nothing as far as you yourself are concerned, since you won't know you are wrong until you've already spent your life. But do you really want to live your life investing time and interest in a lie, that you've actively participated in spreading? A lie that have had major implications on society, and continues to do so in varying degrees to this day?
And yes, I know your religion has done good as well; but to do good doesn't take a religion. The beneficence done by your religion could have been done without its existence. So the question is... would there have been done more good and less harm without christianity existing? I assume you don't belive that, but what if that was the case?
For instance: As per witch huntings in africa (that still takes place in big numbers by the way, and not just aimed at adults, http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/05/opinion/the-persecution-of-witches-21st-century-style.html?_r=0) would those murders have been replaced by other justifications? Difficult to say.
I also have a pet peeve with how many religions denounce determinism, to be able to contine to uphold ideas such as 'choices', 'good and evil' and so on. You know, so they can judge for you 'choosing' to be 'evil', completely disregarding the reasons why desperate people end up doing terrible things. Outdated ideas that are having bad influences on society.
Also, have you heard of this quote: “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”?
It isn't necessarily true, but have you pondered its meaning? You helping to keep these things alive isn't just 'nothing'.
_________________
Come, lovely child! Oh come thou with me!
For many a game I will play with thee!
Also, have you heard of this quote: “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”?
This is a good quote. Never heard it before, however I KNOW the evil that has been done AND is going on right now in the name of God. You know we are living though the Muslim Crusades. African Christians are being murdered right now as we speak in the name of Allah.
Just like every other war in the history of mankind, it's usually either over religion, Land or power.
If you eliminated all religions from the earth, mankind would still have war, famine, people fighting over food, water etc.
My point is, that wouldn't solve anything.
Yes, I agree that we would still have war, famine, people fighting over food, water etc. without religion. But your point of therefore religion is a non-factor and it wouldn't solve anything to not have it, I don't agree with. We could have created a lot more needless misery and suffering with it, and a lot less without it.
_________________
Come, lovely child! Oh come thou with me!
For many a game I will play with thee!
The bottom is, if you look at history, Christianity was spread mostly through FORCE and BRIBERY. Early Europeans followed Germanic, Celtic, Roman, and Greek gods. Many were NOT given a choice. They HAD to convert to Christianity! Remember for centuries those nations were Christian theocracies! They did NOT have choice like we do in the west today. IF they had choice many would NOT have become Christian to begin with.
You people who think Jesus is real have simply been brainwashed! I went to a church service and I noticed what an OBVIOUS fraud it was. That pastor could have been talking about ANY god or ANY religion! LOL..he even admitted to me after the service he could NOT prove anything in the bible was real! He said it's FAITH and not FACT!
Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!
This is a good quote. Never heard it before, however I KNOW the evil that has been done AND is going on right now in the name of God. You know we are living though the Muslim Crusades. African Christians are being murdered right now as we speak in the name of Allah.
Just like every other war in the history of mankind, it's usually either over religion, Land or power.
Who are a little wise the best fools be.share
Oh dear, we've started the 'Thelsttm' up.
He is a diehard, pseudo-intellectual catholic apologist who likes to use logical fallacies at every turn. I got tired of that sh!t a lot time ago, and ignored him. Take his words with a grain of salt.
_________________
Come, lovely child! Oh come thou with me!
For many a game I will play with thee!
With all due respect, you propably didn't have very intelligent ministers there where you grew up?
Most pastors and preachers I've met are well aware of the many intellectual problems christianity faces, and are not afraid of talking about them (unlike in mr. Maler's documentary film). In fact I've had my deepest philosophical debates with some well-educated moderate christians, because they really have to ponder these questions.
As for the life of Jesus, one has to admit that even if some parts of his life are propably made up and based on older religions, there is still a lot of originality in the New Testament when you compare it to the typical Roman or Jewish belif system of that era. So someone moderately wise around those time eras had to talk about those issues mentioned in the Bible in order for them to be written down there, right? Well, even if you don't believe in the so-called Biblical Jesus, what if you still believe in that "someone", and for the sake of simplicity call him "Jesus"? That way, your point can easily be dodged.
For the well-educated moderate christian, religion is not about the form of the belief. It is about the substance.
As for me, the problem that has bugged me the most since childhood is: if you do unselfish things in order to get to heaven, isn't that pretty selfish motivation? And if being saved equals unselfishness, doesn't that mean that you are not yet saved when you are a christian only for those reasons, as I would have been?
I have not yet heard a proper answer to that question. I am ready to reconsider my position, though (like all intelligent people should be), if someone gives me a proper explanation.
Or we could take a few steps further back and ask; is it feasible to do an unselfish act? Because, surely, even the most selfless people follows a desire to perform those selfless acts they perform, and so therefore aren't doing them for sake of kindness but merely as a slave to their own desires.
Even if a person doesn't get any fame or fortunate out of his acts, even if no one else will ever know what he did, then he will still internally feel that he has made a difference. He will still feel it is the best to do, get a pleasure for doing it, and so therefore are merely following his desire.
And if it isn't feasible.. then what are religions doing pretending it is (backing it up with divine expertise), and arguing about the repercussions and consequences of not doing it?
_________________
Come, lovely child! Oh come thou with me!
For many a game I will play with thee!
Haha I have to say that in everyday life, almost all "unselfish" deeds are indeed committed mostly so we can lie to ourselves about how good people we are. Often there are big (and yes very selfish) questions of identity behind those actions. But when you look closer to history, it is easy to find examples of people whose self-sacrificing deeds have gone too far to be explained simply that way. In fact modern psychology seems to find it hard to explain what desire can overcome your basic needs of survival, mental well-being, and social acceptance. If you give up both physical and mental well-being to help someone else while being judged by your own community only because of your sense of moral duty (these examples can sometimes be found especially in dictatorship-run countries), thus ending up in a situation where the mental and physical harm whoppingly exceeds the very small amount of pleasure you get, are you still being selfish?
Well, that determines how you determine "selfish", of course. If it is not about the amount of harm or pleasure you choose to encounter (as I understand the term), i.e. if "being selfless" equals "abandoning all personal desires", then I suppose it wouldn't be possible, since attempting such a thing would be just another personal desire. But if there are many desires inside of us, then at least we would be choocing the least selfish desire. I wonder if that would be enough for God, who seems to be quite demanding...
Some forms of christianity even suppose that there is a fixed number of those who will get saved throughout human history. In this case, the true unselfish deed, I suppose, would be to go to Hell in order for someone else to be saved. Now there is an idea for a new religion!
But when you look closer to history, it is easy to find examples of people whose self-sacrificing deeds have gone too far to be explained simply that way.
"being selfless" equals "abandoning all personal desires"
Some forms of christianity even suppose that there is a fixed number of those who will get saved throughout human history.
My exact background was full of people who did terrible things in the name of religion and there were always three responses:
1. "Well, Christians used to do the same things Muslims do now" which was more a slam of other religions than a real defense of any. That made me think that if the only way to defend your religion is to put down other ones, then that really isn't something that's working. It's like a 6th grader who defends hitting another kid because another kid did it last week.
2. "You can't blame the religion for why people do bad things." Except that you can. Most religions (especially monotheistic religions) have the violence baked right into the heart of them. They literally say that there is only one way to view the world--especially monotheistic religions--and that way should be followed and protected at all costs, as well as the sheer violence involved in many of their origin stories or beliefs. It's a throwback from a more violent time that keeps permeating this one.
3. "People who aren't religious do bad things too." But they don't have an overarching philosophy that justifies this, and the ones that do (like communist or facist regimes) just replace the religious ideology with a political monotheism. Plus, admitting that there is no real difference between religious people and non-religious people is actually admitting that religion is irrelevant and therefore unnecessary.
Never did, never have, never will, ever since I got my first book on dinosaurs and astronomy.
Unlike a lot of people I don't look down on religious folks. Just up the freeway is a state hospital with real certifiable nut cases that are there because they can't live in society. Do we look down on them? Not really.
Do we look down on kids for believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny? Maybe a little because everyone understands those to be fiction, but we look down on them because we know they're children and are inexperienced with life. But even then we don't condescend. Heck, we even placate to the fantasy of Claus, Fairy and Bunny until they grow out of it.
Even adults believing in something that's never been shown to exist, has been disproven, and the only reason they believe in it is because they register coincidence in their mind with the proof of a threat; i.e. miracles or rumors thereof (verbal or written), in my book, is mostly harmless.
Animals typically fear everything. It's how they survive. And so to me it makes total sense that a lot of human beings would fear something that they've never seen, regardless of whether it exists or not.
So, even knowing there is no god of any kind, nor any savior of any sort, I don't come down on the person who believes until they start trying to recruit me or force their beliefs on society.