why was the word *beep* used in this film {why play that *beep* music?}?
it seemed so out of context that people one step from death and persecuted at every moment should be derogatory about other human beings
for a brief moment i lost all sympathy for the prisoners
"why was the word *beep* used in this film {why play that *beep* music?}? "
There's a very simple answer to your question:
"N-word Music" was the term the Nazis used for jazz.
As for the inmates using the Nazi term, there are a few possibilities, the way I see it.
1) Despite their hatred of Nazism in general, the inmates had internalized the Nazis' dislike for (what was then) modern music and, thus, used the then-common derogatory term for it.
2) They were using the Nazis' term for it, but in an ironic sense. They, too, were opponents of the Nazis and, thus, used the term with a derisive irony.
3) They weren't really aware of how strongly racist the term was, especially since they probably never met a black person in their lives. After all, these concentration camp inmates were 1930s/1940s Europeans. In that era, there were very, very, few Afro-Europeans.
Also, keep in mind that they used a German word. (I speak some German and know the word, but I won't type it here, lest the IMDB administrators delete this post). It may not have had the same extreme connotation that the English-language n-word does.
4) Maybe they really didn't like black people, though I find that the least likely explanation.
"it seemed so out of context that people one step from death and persecuted at every moment should be derogatory about other human beings"
Even people subjected to persecution for their own race, religion, political beliefs, etc. often retain their own petty prejudices. That, unfortunately, is the way of the world.
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I'm quite positive that it is suggestion number 3.
The German word, that i won't write as well, if someone feels offended, hasn't the connotation of the English n-word. It's not positive either, but was not that derrogative.
I think that God has got a sick sense of humor and when I die I expect to find him laughing.
You are correct. The German word used was basically the German word for the color black. This word is often still misunderstood today, much like the descriptive word in English has evolved over time, although of course some of them that have been used are derogatory and offensive. Others are simply descriptive.
shareMaybe it was that being in a situation where you are seen as the lowest rung of the ladder, it makes you feel a little better to have someone you can look down on, too. It's just human nature
shareI think this whole discussion is based on a misunderstanding. Maybe I missed it, but I only heard the use of the N-word once, to criticize the music being played by some of the inmates (why this N music, as if there weren't any good German music). The film didn't really show clearly, but I thought the person who said it was the older "gentleman" who proudly announced he had always been an upstanding citizen and objected to being placed with those lowly criminals. In other words, he is an assimilated snob, who appeals to the Nazis that he has been a good German all his life, and appears to have internalized their attitudes (such as racism). So, this term was only used by one of the inmates (moreover the one who insisted on his clear difference from the others) and should not be assumed to reflect upon the other inmates or suggest that, although persecuted for their race, they themselves were all racist. After all, who do you think was playing the "N-music"? The SS troops?
shareIt was actually Swing music they were referring to. It was banned by the Nazi's. There was a movie made years ago about it called Swing Kids with Christian Bale. It wasn't the greatest movie but it was entertaining.
BTW this is for the poster who mentioned something to the effect that perhaps Germans didn't really know of black people. Germans were very familiar with black people. The First World War brought a lot of Afro American GI's to Europe. Before the black GI's got to Europe white GI's had spread the rumor that black men had tails, so they were very interested in seeing if this was true. My grandfather who fought in WWI told me about the curious looks he got when he went there. There were a lot of black people particularly in the Rhineland region where 'Rhine bastards', children who were born to German women and French West African ( Senegalese) occupation troops in the 1920s. Also before the Nazi plenty of black musicians played in Germany. I believe one black jazz artist was actually in a concentration camp. Up to 30,000 black people are said to been in Concentration camps. Plenty black people also came from the African countries in which Germany colonized. Cameroon, Namibia, Tanganyika (Tanzania) andlet's not forgetNorthern Africa where the Nazi's were very active. So black people were no strangers to Germans.
This movie being politically quite incorrect I think the correct answer is that the characters simply did not give one iota. As far as I know (I am from 1963) the general Eureopean attitude was very indifferent towards American racial problems.
shareTo a extent I agree. But I do sense a air of European superiority when it comes to them comparing racism in their countries to racism in the US. They claim everybody is accepted there and they have very few problems. While we as American are basically less then normal because of the amount of racism practiced here. Well I am not falling for that because they do have a plethora of problems particularly with skinheads and immigrants from formerly colonized countries.
Places like France were electing people who espoused racist beliefs openly. I lived in the Netherlands and I know the real deal. And the fact that European countries like Portugal, England, France etc. who were big in the slave trade never practiced slavery in their own countries, they practiced it everywhere else. They do not have to deal with the psychological damage slavery of slavery and a system that encouraged racial inequality that it was law, whose remnants still stand today . No matter if a black man was elected President. We would of elected Barney Rubble and Fred Flintstone if they ran on the Democratic ticket we were so sick of the crazy conservatives and their Grand Boobbah George Bush.
So racism in Europe does not exist in the way it does here, but it certainly does exist. But when it comes down to it other then a lot of Europeans blowing a lot of hot air about the so called racial utopia they live in they really are indifferent to racism here because they do not know of the history and the ramifications of having slavery practiced in Europe like it was here and don't want to know. So they are basically clueless.
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I agree. I remember living in London in the 1990's and the British like to effect this attitude that Americans are un-evolved and London didn't have racial problems. Well, while I lived there, there were riots in Brixton, when the Nationalists (sort of like a white supremacist political group) marched there.
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I'm not sure where you got all of your information from (besides your grandfather), but speaking as someone who was born in Germany in 1947 and lived there until 1957, I rarely saw what one defines as black people. I lived in several towns and cities during this 10 year period, two of which were very popular with American Armed Forces personnel as well as having tourist from all over.
I could count on 10 fingers the total number of black people I saw in that 10 year period. Every person of color that I did see was a soldier stationed at a local Army base. Two of the towns I lived in had large tourist attractions and I never once recalled seeing anyone resembling an African, though I did see some people of other cultures.
So, to make it sound like "Germans were very familiar with black people" is distorting it a bit. Please read this article, which backs up most of what I'm saying. The article states that most of these non-white children were a "TINY" minority and actually most were the result of interaction of German missionaries with natives in Africa, who then later came back to Germany with their families. Also, they were called "Rhine-Land Bastards" for a reason, it was a SPECIFIC AREA of Germany. Rhine Land is not a nickname for Germany, it refers to the area in and around the Rhine river, just as the Mississippi Delta refers to areas around the Mississippi River ONLY, not the entire United States.
It further goes on to state that the entire black population was around 500-800 out of a total German population of 65 MILLION, at the time of the Third Reich formation. Hardly "a lot of black people" as you put it. It may have been slightly higher at the time of WWI because of the constant movement of troops along specific routes, so perhaps some of those Germans in that area did manage to see quite a few more than most, but please don't generalize and say "Germans were very familiar with black people" as if it were common knowledge to everyone who lived in that country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_Bastard
I recall one instance where a group of us saw 3 black soldiers walking about, doing the tourist thing, and we all ended up following them around, gawking at them, fascinated by them. We were all around 6 to 8 years of age and had never laid eyes on a black person before and many grown ups ended up joining our little parade. I'm pretty certain that your grandfather got curious looks simply because he was still a rarity due to his darker skin color and nothing else.
You make Germans sound backward that they would believe a story about men with tails. Just because there were few black people to actually see up close, there were certainly plenty of magazines and books that would have pointed that black men don't have tails. Most Germans were quite familiar with the United States and the history of black people there, as well as black men from the African continent - from being taught about it in schools, even before World War I.
Very interesting comment.
I'd add see the book "Destined to Witness: Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany" by
Hans J. Massaquoi.
He's the son of a German Woman, and of a prominent African diplomat, who survives encountering racism under the Nuremberg laws, but also mostly puzzlement from the other (white) kids and adults.
In those times, the german expression which was probably translated to the "n-word" here, didn't have a negative connotation by itself. Even until today, it's not as negative as the english word you are refering to, although it has a negative touch and is therefore not used anymore.
A similiar example would be the german word for "Jew". The word is used very cautiously and only when you talk about religion, never if you talk about origin and cultural belonging (you would rather say something like "he is jewish").
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German is my mother language, and the n-word was used in Germany without negative connotation until the late 60ies.
Because of its similarity to the English n-word, which since the times of slavery had a degrading character, it was strongly recommended since the 70ies to use the German translation for "africans" or "black americans" instead as politically correct.
Only since the 90ies the German n-word is considered as an insult.
timberlady1 is absolutely right. I'd like to add that the German word "Neger" (and I think that they're talking about "Negermusik", IIRC) equals the English word "negro", *not* the "other" n-word.
I grew up (late 50s/60s) learning to use "Neger" without any connotation and with the simple meaning "black person" (cf. Latin "niger", Spanish "negro", Italian "nero", French "noir" = black). Even if the Nazis used the word in a derogatory sense, my post-war generation didn't. On the other hand, when someone talked about "die Schwarzen" (blacks) it was generally meant to be negative.
It was only after it became widely known that African Americans did no longer want to be called Negroes that people thought of switching to different expressions. Since "Schwarze" did not seem neutral, most figured that the politically correct term to use was, of all things, "Farbige" -- coloreds, a word that had gone out of style even before "negroes" with those who are affected.
On the other hand, you still have the "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People" as well as the "United Negro College Fund" in the States, hardly vestiges of racist thinking.
This shows that a word as such (and I don't mean those with a clearly negative denotation, like s.o.b., a..hole) is primarily neutral and subject to changing times. I wonder if it's always a good idea to quit using those words just because someone is misusing them. It surrenders the power to define language to the racists and other radicals, and with the replacement definition the cycle starts anew.
Why is everyone so afraid of mentioning the word? I mean there is a difference between using the word and just talking about it.
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