MovieChat Forums > The Last Sin Eater (2007) Discussion > hypocrisy

hypocrisy

posted 17 years ago by gibbsa
13 replies | jump to latest

I was reading a few of the other posts, mostly the ones where the OUTRAGED members of other religions railed against the movie and its Christian themes and I'm wondering....how comfortable they would be if a Christian went on to say...Brokeback Mountain's board and ranted there, which I am sure some have and they were not well received. Point is, it's a free country...unless you're Christian. It's freedom of speech...unless that speech has anything to do with Jesus. It's spiritual openmindedness...unless we're talking about Christians. It's funny that everything Christians have been (often falsely) accused of doing is being done to them in the name of...spiritual openness, which is just another way of saying deceit.

If you don't like the message...don't watch the movie. And don't reveal your hypocrisy by rubbing your paganism in other people's faces and then yelling at Christians for rubbing their beliefs in your faces...by making a movie that no one is forcing you to watch. Honestly. Grow up.

[–] Lord_Raven 17 years ago

This entire post will no doubt be misinterpreted and flamed, but here goes regardless:

Freedom of religion means freedom to practice ANY religion, or NONE AT ALL. Those who seek true equal religious rights are seeking to balance the equation, not rally against Christianity, despite what you may perceive. When one particular religion enjoys freedoms that others do not - it is not discrimination to remove special privileges that others do not enjoy. That is called equality. If one group says that they have the freedom of speech while NO OTHERS should, THAT is hypocrisy. If one group feels they should be able to practice openly while others cannot, THAT is hypocrisy. If you fail to understand that Christianity has enjoyed freedoms that no other religion has, and that every other religion has been discriminated against in the past because of it, then you are blind.

To cover the bases, the above is in reference only to the U.S. - I have not spent enough time in other countries, nor do I know enough about their particular religious freedoms or lack thereof to make any kind of comment on them in that regard.

Now, with regards to this movie, I have not read the boards extensively, but if anyone goes to the boards of any movie with obvious Christian elements, then complains that it has Christian elements, then those people have a sense of entitlement that rivals a spoiled child. How DARE someone make a movie they don't agree with?? How DARE someone put in elements that they disagree with?? How DARE someone make a movie that may not agree with what they personally believe?

It's patently absurd. Every major religion in the world right now, from the more widespread pagan religions, to the monotheistic main three . . . EVERY one has some element that is, to the effect of "love thy neighbor as thyself", as well as "live and let live". Everybody picks and chooses what they want to follow in their own particular sacred text, but it's interesting how very very few choose to follow those tenants.

A friend (pagan one at that) posted the trailer for this in her blog and raved about what a great movie it is. After watching the trailer, it looks like something I will probably pick up at some point to check out. For me, personally, whether it has religious elements of any kind or not is irrelevant in determining if it's a good movie or not. Well, that's a lie. Religious elements, same as any other elements, can make or break a plot, depending on how they are incorporated and dealt with. But if anyone looks at a movie and actually gets angry because it was obviously not made for them specifically, then their problems extend FAR beyond a wasted couple of hours.

/my .02

[–] russell_anam 17 years ago

Nice post Lord_Raven.

[–] poeticlicensetokill 17 years ago

I will openly say that I am a Christian. But I do not believe that it is ethical to shove my religion down someone's throat. I do however believe in presenting it to those I think that need it personally. I am often looked down upon and warned by other more hardcore Christian followers for including pieces of buddhism, taoism, native american, and modern spiritualism into my main theology that is often Christ and Holy Spirit centered. Besides wasn't the basic principle that Jesus taught us was to love one other? Also, that passing judgment on others because of who they are is wrong? It seems that many Christians nowadays are too quick to judge something as condemnable instead of first looking into it to find any semblance of good. Which is quite sad and very narrow minded in my eyes. To close, I too will say I thought this movie was very very good.

[–] smoke0 16 years ago

You say that you do not believe it is ethical to shove your religion down someone's throat, (I don't believe ethics have anything to do with it, but I digress..) but in your next sentence you state that you will present your religion to those that you think need it. Isn't that contradicting your first statement? Do you not then proceed to shove your religion down someone's throat after deeming them personally worthy of your intervention?

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Livana_Faolan 17 years ago

Bravo, gibbsa!

Unfortunately, some people believe that their life's purpose is to harass people they disagree with.

"Way to go, Furball."
(Wolverine - "X-Men: The Last Stand")

[–] rhiannon39 16 years ago

I just wanted to chime in here for a quick minute about HYPOCRISY....

I am Pagan but was raised as a Southern Pentecostal and do believe there is a higher power AND I believe that Jesus Christ was a very spiritual MAN & TEACHER and that the bible was written by MEN (and women but we won't go there!). So to say I have a few issues regarding Christianity is an understatement. Never in any other religion have I witnessed such hypocrisy & non-tolerance of others who do not agree with their beliefs! These are from my own witnessed accounts and personal experiences...not from what others say or believe.

Unfortunately I have to say to Gibbsa, you must really open your eyes and take a much closer look at the world around you. Of all religions in this world, Christians are the ones that are FREE!

For example: I live in a very small community with the majority, as most places, being Christian. And I am very close friends with VERY Christian people who know that I am Pagan and think my beliefs are beautiful.(mostly because they now know what Paganism REALLY is and is NOT!) There is a man in my town that drives a minivan that is plastered(and I'm not exaggerating)with stickers and handwritten signs about Jesus, burning in hell, Santa Claus is the devil, etc etc. He parks his van on the main road and walks up and down holding a huge bible and picket-sign about wanting to save souls! Now....here's my frustration with this....

This man is clearly exercising his freedom of religion and speech...but, what do you imagine would happen if I chose to park right next to him expressing my beliefs? Doing the exact same thing he is doing but honoring Mother Earth? Who do you think would be asked to leave? How long do you think it would take before there is a complaint? And if I refuse to leave, what next? Police? News reporters?....just imagine.

So, judging from this man's actions, who is being the tolerant one? Him or me? I am not out there picketing him or screaming to my county officers with complaints about my rights. But I guarantee that if the shoe were on the other foot, this man and many Christians would definitely have something to say about me expressing my beliefs! He is showing his intolerance by forcing Christianity in each person's face that drives past. No, you don't have to stop and talk to him, no you don't have to believe what his signs say, but you do HAVE to look at it every single day. There is only one way in and out of our town and he is strategically positioned so you HAVE to see him. This is an invasion of MY rights. But again, I am the tolerant one who understands that he truly believes he is trying to save someone's soul.

As far as this movie is concerned, I did not look for religious undertones. I looked for a message...a "what does it mean" kind of thing. Even if the religion factor is obvious, because I am so open minded, I see through it and look deeper. The message is a good one and I would recommend this movie to friends. (even Pagan ones!) LOL

[–] Gewher 16 years ago

Can't speak for other Christian denominations... But the reason (or what should be the reason) why Catholics try to convert people is to help them get to heaven. We don't believe in other religions and believe ours is the only one BECAUSE, believing in other religions is /extremely/ redundant. Personally, I'm Catholic, and love it. And I know my religion is the right one, but I'm not going to hate you or shove mine down your throat. But I have hopes that you would believe so that you can go to heaven. I'm not saying you'll go to hell, but a very wise preist once told me: "If you aim for heaven, at least you'll have the net of purgatory to catch you. If you aim for purgatory, what happens if you miss?" So, maybe in the end you will go to heaven, but it's taking a rish isn't it?

[–] omaldy_subs 16 years ago

Dear Gewher,
Purgatory is a human invention. It is not a "net" to save those who aim for Heaven. Christ is the only "net" that can save a sinner. Inventions, books regarding "saving", textbooks on how to save oneself... the world's full of them. The basis of ALL Pagan religions is salvation by works. They all have their "textbooks". Yet the Bible is the only book granted us from our Heavenly Father to fully disclose the Truth. The only thing is that one can miss the Truth wide open if one will not accept the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That's the idea of the movie. Accept the Holy Spirit moving upon your soul as a child. THEN the Truth will disclose itself to you in its loveliness and simplicity.

Please, do not think I want to offend you. But I am forced to say that your Church stated that "there's no salvation outside the Catholic Church". God can and WILL save anyone irrespective of his or her church membership! The Bushman who never saw a Bible - or a Catholic for that matter - the animist, the Pagan who never had a chance to "taste of the Lord". I would never be member of an "exclusive club"! What would I tell people for whom Christ gave His life? "Only The Catholic Church saves." That would be a lie. Christ and only Christ saves - not a Church, not the Bible, not one's knowledge about Christ or the Bible, not one's particular membership... if it were so - if only the membership to the Catholic Church were able to save, then Christ's death on the cross would be useless, meaningless... not the relationship with a Church saves, but to a Person. Remember the woman who touched Jesus in faith and was healed? His disciples were aghast that He would ask "Who touched Me?" Of all who wander in this world, only those who touch Jesus will be saved; not those who touch crosses, books, statues, icon, "holy places"... you name it... Know Him, friend, and you'll see that all our pretense and beliefs are chaff worthy of being taken by the wind of trials. If I sounded somewhat harsh, please forgive me. I didn't mean to. I spoke from the bottom of my heart. I love people. I just can't accept false doctrines. Peace to you.

[–] mrbruto 16 years ago

What religion is more accepted in the world depends
on what side of the fence you're on. If you're a
so called Christian you might think Christians get
the short end of the stick. If you're a so called
Pagan then you'll think Pagans get the short end
of the stick, etc., generally speaking.

First of all I don't claim to be better than anyone.
I still have sin and mess up on a daily basis, but
it is required to agonize over sin and to die to
ones self on a daily basis. The outer man must die
and the inner man must take over eventually. I believe
this can be a life long process. I'm still pretty young
and I have a long way to go. One of my problems in
particular is rage, which comes mostly from living in
fear and abuse most of my life, but this probably
happened by God's will to mold me.

It's my belief that the Roman Catholic church is
not the real church. I was raised Roman Catholic.
Those who come to God come to God by His will and
His will alone. He draws to Him whom He wills. These
can be people out of Buddhism, some Christian
denomination, different forms of Paganism, an atheist
or whatever.

If you belong to God you will be shown how worthless
you are eventually and He will chastise you until
you change just like a parent does with their child,
I don't care if you are a Pagan, a Roman Catholic,
a Buddhist, an Atheist or what your ethnicity is
and not only will you be shown how worthless you are
and in need of redemption but you will want to change,
even though at times you may stray. It is not by the
will of man but the will of God that people are
saved. No man seeks after God, says the Bible. You
can't will to come to God and accept Christ. It is
all by God's will and grace, not our own.

God's church is the bride of Christ and sooner or
later God willing people have their eyes open, whom
He wills. God's church is not what men and women
call the church nor is it a building with four walls
and a ceiling, but it is the body of people redeemed
set aside before the foundation of the world, just
as it says in the Bible.

Roman Catholicism is at its core pagan and not
really Christian. I'm not talking about individual
Roman Catholics. Roman Catholics can be drawn to
God if He is willing just like anyone else but the
foundation of the Roman Catholic system is pagan
with an appearance of Christianity. The fact is
that all the atrocities committed in the name of
Christianity, for which "christianity" gets the
blame was really committed entirely or largely and
directly or influentially instigated by Rome, which
is now a religious entity called Roman Catholicism,
which was at one time a political entity, and some
may argue that it is still and has political influence
although disguised as religious. It may very well
be both.

Any Pagan who is deeply familiar with Paganism knows
that Roman Catholicism and much or most of what is
called Christianity is Pagan, especially Roman
Catholicism. Many so called Christian traditions and
customs are pagan.

Baptism as shown in this movie is wrong. Baptism is
by blood. Baptism also does not mean to submerge in
water. Baptism used to be a household term that meant
to dye or stain.

Most of what people perceive to be Christian is
because of what they hear from preachers who don't
know what they are saying. Much of Christianity as
is understood by most people is wrong. If they knew
what the Bible really says, science and the Bible
would probably be in agreement much more often.

I have no desire to argue. Anyone can take or leave
this message.

Articles:
Prayer for the Christ(X) Mass
http://graceandtruth.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&am p;id=47&Itemid=26
... You can read more there.

If you like videos:
Christmas, Halloween & Mardi Gras are the same thing. Demons don't exist.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6312077067443468012
... You can view more videos there by clicking on "More from this user"

This is not my opinion. This is what the Bible says.

http://thesentinel.fcpages.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Falc%C3%A3o

[–] audree7593 16 years ago

I agree with some of your comments, but did want to point out that Jesus Himself was baptized in water (by John the Baptist) and the Ethiopian eunuch was also baptized in water by Philip, as referenced in the book of Acts. (There are other references in Acts to baptism, as well.) So baptism in water is definitely Biblical. It is an outward evidence of the inward change in a believer's life.

[–] one28 16 years ago

Not to poke a hole in your bubble, but where in the Bible does it say that demons don't exist?
There is Scripture to prove that they do exist (James 2:29), but I'm not familiar with any that say that demons don't exist. So.....please enlighten me.

As for baptism, Christ commanded believers to be baptised (Matthew 28:19-20) and in Acts we learn that baptism is supposed to be by water. Again I would love to know where in the Bible you have found that we aren't to be baptised. Especially since you say that what you believe is Biblical.

One more thing I couldn't find a doctrinal statement on the Grace and Truth Ministries website, why is that and do you know where I could find one?

sempre reformanda

[–] 16 years ago

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