I feel like lots of people overlook this, but if this movie is about a Trans woman, then shouldn't she be played by a Trans woman? This also applies to that Elle Fanning Trans movie, and even Transparent (even that show does have other Trans actors on its cast). I mean, I'm sure that there are Trans actors in Hollywood who would do just as good a job. Am I the only one who thinks this?
shareI feel like lots of people overlook this, but if this movie is about a Trans woman, then shouldn't she be played by a Trans woman?
I'm yet to be convinced by his acting ability.
Yes, he can do a good impression of Stephen Hawking...
But what does he know about hardship and discrimination?
He's literally the most privileged actor in Hollywood.
Ex-model who was school buddies with the future King of England.
He's an actor they are supposed to be able to get into the mind of characters and other humans. You don't even know him personally you don't know what kind of things he could have witnessed in his life. For example Jamie Foxx wasn't a homeless musician with a mental illness when he was in the ''Soloist''. Leonardo Dicaprio didn't have an intellectual disability in ''What's eating Gilbert Grape'' Charlize Theron was never a prostitute abused by every single person around her and neglected by the state when she was in ''Monster''.
shareYou should watch Savage Grace, probably his best performance, but undeniably a film that is not meant to be enjoyed.
Film Reverie: http://filmreverie.blogspot.com.au/
My film diary: http://letterboxd.com/filmreverie/
But what does he know about hardship and discrimination?
only trans people have had to deal with hardship and discrimination
But what does he know about hardship and discrimination?
I'm not trans...
My issue with this is not specifically the subject matter,
but mostly the fact that I consider Redmayne a very poor actor.
If he was born from a regular working-class couple he would not have his career.
And btw, I have got round to actually seeing this film now.
Absolute garbage. Laughable that it got nominated for ANY Oscars.
His Oscar and BAFTA awards would say that people that know good acting as an art would disagree with you, who are.. Who again are you? How many of those awards have you voted on or received?
shareOh yeah... because I haven't won an Oscar, that makes my opinion completely worthless. Funny that can also be applied to you and your own irrelevant views. I gladly accept that he did a very good impression of Stephen Hawking. But I think it makes more sense to judge the entire career, which shows Redmanye to be mediocre in the majority of his roles.
shareOh for chrissakes!!!
He is an ACTOR! Do you grasp the concept?????
God the stupidity on these forums....
What I did say is that Eddie is an ex-model who was school buddies with the future King of England, and had a silver spoon shoved up his ass from birth.
What he knows about "hardship" can be written on a postage stamp.
Really? Like using Chinese actors to play Japanese women in Memoirs of Geisha? LOL! Like there is no difference between the two and their are TONS of great Japanese actresses. But because of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon they went with actresses of the moment. I'm actually surprised the actresses took the roles.
The point here is that they probably didn't even LOOK for a transsexual actor who could play the part well, they went with a name who would fill seats and was probably at the time of filming a shoe in for an Oscar and thus would fill more seats.
There are plenty of British actors playing Americans, so why not Chinese actors playing Japanese? Should Ryan Gosling and Ryan Reynolds only plsy characters that are Canadians?
Likewise transgenders don't look different from the rest, anyone can play one, just like gay people can play heterosexual characters.
Beside, the story of the movie is about a man who wants to transition. We never really see the post-operation result so there's no reason why it HAS to be a transgender playing the role. The character needed to be a man.
The point here is that they probably didn't even LOOK for a transsexual actor who could play the part well, they went with a name who would fill seats and was probably at the time of filming a shoe in for an Oscar and thus would fill more seats.
Revenge is the most important meal of the day.share
Does a heroin addict need to be played by an actual addict? Does a thief need to be played by a real thief? A cancer patient by an actual cancer patient? A dude dressed as a woman is playing a dude who chose to live as a woman. What the hell do you want? If you want a documentary, watch one, They're out there. This is a movie with actors.
shareAs a trans woman I do get why they cast a cis male actor in this role since it's about transitioning. But it is frustrating too since thats all cis people seem to care about which it's so not. But yeah casting a male actor when it's not about transitioning is unacceptable COUGH*jared leto*COUGH. But they've been better over the last couple of years with casting, though mostly on television.
shareI dont think its unacceptable at all to cast the best actor available to play whatever role. Thats what this business is about. I'd love to see a truly amazing trans actor one day, but I wouldn't just want producers to give people roles out of political correctness.
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As a yellow cartoon, what the *beep* is a cis male actor?
shareCis is someone who identifies as the gender they're born with. Eddie is cis male because he was born male and identifies as male.
shareThey are otherwise known as male actors. Some people want to create a false dichotomy where the world is made up of trans people and cis people, even though one of the groups is a miniscule size compared to the other. I fully support trans people living the lives they want to live, but this "cis" thing is stupid.
Suppose I decide to set myself and a few of my friends apart from the rest of the human race and we become "og" people. Fine, no problem with that. Maybe it's not an unrealistic expectation to even expect non-og people to refer to us as og-people. But then we decide the rest of the human race are "ig" people, and not only do we refer to them as ig-people, but we try to impose our will on them and get them to refer to themselves as ig-people as well, instead of just, y'know, people.
See? Kinda sorta really stupid.
Cat Blanchett played a very convincing Bob Dylan. What does it really matter.
Film Reverie: http://filmreverie.blogspot.com.au/
My film diary: http://letterboxd.com/filmreverie/
The problem here is most of the transsexuals I know after they have transition no longer if they ever see themselves as transsexual. They have transitioned to male and female so finding an actor who still labels themselves as transsexual isn't easy because at least with those I know they are in wrong body and when they get into the right one the drop the label.
shareI don't see your logic, who would play the character before he starts transitioning? A different actor?
shareHere's my opinion on this matter: it is really important to have trans people play trans roles such as Jared Leto's role in Dallas Buyers Club. Theres needs to be more trans actors in Hollywood so that people can get a sense of what real trans people are like and so that trans characters don't become a stereotype. But, in movies like this, I think it's acceptable to have a cis male play the role only because if a trans woman had to play the role, they would have to act as a man for the majority of the movie. For cis people that are comfortable with their gender identity, acting as someone who identifies as the opposite gender is doable for them. But I'd imagine that a trans woman would not want to have to go act as a man. I'm not trans so I wouldn't really know, but wouldn't something like that trigger gender dysphoria? Wouldn't it make the trans actor extremely uncomfortable to have to play a gender who they'd probably have been forced to be for so long? Correct me if I'm wrong because I'd love to see more trans actors out there, but I think it might be a very difficult thing for a trans actor to act as the opposite gender after having to go through so much in their transition.
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Yes, I was actually going to use Laverne Cox's case of an example. I even heard she was willing to act as herself pre-transition but they didn't want to put her through that. And honestly, you're totally right. Trans characters should be more widespread through movies and television. It shouldn't be "brave" or "politically correct" to cast a trans actor, and if a trans actor is casted, their entire character shouldn't be focused so much around their transition, but more as them as a person. But in cases like this, it really is of paramount importance to show the process of the transition to present a juxtaposition for modern day trans people or even cis people of how different things were back then and how the whole revelation of being transgender arose. It's true that for most movies including trans people, everyone is way too obsessed with their transition, but I think it was really important to make this movie and include the transition. I really hope there are more trans characters in the future that explore the trans person's personality or character rather than them repeat the overdone phrase of "I was born in the wrong body".
shareBut what if most people after they transition are no longer transsexual or don't label themselves that way but as either male or female. Most of the transsexuals I encounter I never knew until much later they had transitioned simply because it was a process that led to them being in the right body. So I would argue that in Dalla's Buyers Club the character could have been played by a woman since in the end that was the body and sex the person identified with most.
Doesn't transsexual after all mean a person transitioning from one sex to the other. Like I said all the transsexuals I know don't stay transsexual.
How many of those are quality actors worthy of this part? Who cares if the actor is transgender ? Good luck finding one to fit all of the casting criteria...
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Because they can't audition because of people who think that "high caliber actors" are the only ones allowed to play parts. Who was Eddie Redmayne five years ago? Why is there all of a sudden this heiarchy of acting when it comes to transgender parts? Under your logic we would have never had Harrison Ford in Star Wars, or any actors ever for that matter besides Union actors.
shareWhy this doesn't make sense to me and wouldn't work logically is, Do we get a trans female who was previosuly male to play the role? The first half of the movie introduces the journey the character started on to tell their full story, So a female playing that would be hard to do as you'd have to CGI the body they have now or make frumpy suits that wouldn't really help, as people would notice it too much. So then if you get a male trans person who was previously a female, the issue that comes up is, are they a good actor? Eddie Redmayne is a proven solid actor and now has a name people will recognise. So this film will be seen by a wider audience, that is the most important thing here. To get a lot of people to see this not only for the money but to help educate more people. So maybe they just chose the best actor for the job. What I would much rather see now days, is a trans gender actor getting a job playing a character that is the same gender that they are at present and were from birth. Without them getting only the characters that are about trans people. An ordinary lead character, that is where I hope things will go to next. Then maybe we will get a trans Oscar winner too.
shareI disagree with most of the comments who say "Well, just because the role is about heroin addict,should they cast someone who is a heroin addict?" That is very disingenuous and disrespectful point of view. Should we cast ethnic characters (Black/Asian) as white simply because of box-office appeal or one particular role might require an experienced actor for the role. It's silly how people don't see this akin to "blackface" or "yellowface," it's completely distasteful to erase certain identities of people from being casted or being considered, then recast the character as cis-white person, even it's a historical piece or based on real events.
shareas cis-white person
1. They could've used a cis-actress, like originally planned Nicole Kidman.
2. Trans actresses who could've played that part:http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/02/28/4-transgender-actresses-who-could-have-been-cast-in-the-danish-girl-2736775?lt_source=external,manual 4 actresses - Candis Cayne, Michelle Hendly, Stephanie Michelini, and Jamie Clayton.
3. I said it was "akin" to playing blackface, because it is,especially when one group is not receiving equal opportunity and access to a role that they are suited to play.
4.The character was intersex, was not born cis-male. So, where is the requirement for a part to be played by a cisman.
5. So, if we are simply going by the most talented actor, how come we don't have talented actors playing more roles as queens and princesses, since gender isn't necessarily a requirement for a role. Or, in the mind frame that we should limit roles by gender?
So your actual problem is that it's a man in the role?
The first two are okay actors but they are not oscar worthy like Redmayne, I don't know the others and since one of them hasn't even worked much, she still has a long way to go to prove her acting chops. I don't see how it would be easier to have a woman play a male role and it not look inauthentic. I actually wanted you to name a male trans actor as good as Eddie Redmayne.
The character was intersex,that was only every speculated, since it was the 1920/30's and she was the first person to want this surgery, it can't be known by us now if she may have been intersex.
role that they are suited to play
So, if we are simply going by the most talented actor, how come we don't have talented actors playing more roles as queens and princesses, since gender isn't necessarily a requirement for a role. Or, in the mind frame that we should limit roles by gender?
Much of Lili's story takes place when she was still living as a man.
It's totally appropriate the part is played by a male actor.
It's more than merely appropriate that an actor as talented as Eddie Redmayne take on the role.
The filmmakers clearly wanted the best actor for the role.
The Wizard Has Spoken
Sure, you could cast one of those 4 no-name actresses for the part just because they're trans, but that would be a terrible business decision.
There's a reason established stars get cast in these niche movies, they bring attention to projects that would receive none without them.
Good point. Do you want the film to get made a bring to the wider world this story of a transsexual or are you so hell bent of having a transsexual play a transsexual at loss of the story ever getting an audience because no-names were in it. I think the problem here is not so much with filmmakers as it is with larger society as a whole seemingly only willing to spend money of the familiar (i.e. actors, directors etc) and movie producers knowing this and this to make money pick known names.
shareI think Cate Blanchett made a GREAT Bob Dylan. I'm all for males playing female roles and vice versa it is done on stage all the time. I saw an all female cast of Glengary Glennross that was amazing. I am mainly annoyed that people think the labels are ONE thing and don't have a myriad of varieties. Like black and white people from Chicago say are not the same as the Creole people of Louisiana but we don't raise hell when you get any actor play Creole or any actor to play a Chicago cop. Or a non-American to play MLK.
Or take a blockbuster like "Troy" how many Greek actors did they seek out to play Greeks? Probably none save for some extras. But should it get a pass merely because it is a mindless blockbuster?
So in the end I think it really matters less and less as time moves forward who plays what the point is telling the story and sharing in the universal themes they contain.
Shakespeare was never a King and yet he wrote some of the best plays about kings ever... We have to look beyond the specifics to see the universal.
As a side note to Blackface. Dooley Wilson of Casablanca fame started out doing racist whiteface stereotypes of Irish immigrants who during the 20s and 30s were seen as second class citizens. So even back then the racism lines where not so simple.
shareI never heard this before so I looked into it. It doesn't seem to be anything but a rumour mentioned by one guy. Dooley was in a film where a white girl puts cream all over his face and then she gets soot on her face to look black, it was supposed to be some kind of comedy film. There are no pictures of this suppossed "Whiteface" or any other info about it or pics or info of anyone doing it. Even though the Irish were treated badly. I doubt anyone would allow a black guy to get away with that, in those days. So I don't think it really happened.
shareI agree like getting a non-American to play MLK in Selma. Or getting any old white dude to play some Italian mobsters because white is all the same. Or have having Chinese actresses play Japanese geishas.
But the thing with a transsexual character is that you'd have to find somebody transitioning because as I've said elsewhere post-op the transsexuals I know don't see themselves as transsexuals any more they are male or female, straight or gay. The transsexual part dies after the transition.
Your logic is flawed. So you think heterosexual roles should only be played by heterosexual actors and only homosexuals can play homosexual characters? There's a reason why some gays can be in the closet; it's because physically there's no distinction between the two and it's the same with CIS and transgenders. Race is completely different because different races have distinctive physical characteristics.
shareFor the story of Einar/Lili this casting is appropriate.
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