I hated the last two episodes - Burn Notice (2007) Discussion

[–] SullyTheStrange 11 years ago

That would've been all well and fine if not for Michael starting to lose himself, like what Sam brought up in the big fight scene between the two of them: what would Michael do when someone got in his way? Can you really look at Michael in that scene and the way he reacted, and tell me it's the same Michael helping people in the beginning of the series? He was on the slippery slope Larry always wanted to push him down, and it would've only gotten worse.

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[–] StealthCougar81 11 years ago

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I'm having trouble reconciling Michael's betrayal of the organization for Fiona.

Also, while Michael was working with Sonja, he had reservations for some actions and Michael even says that he had issues with the ways things occurred. He killed a friend to further cement his alliance with James, but that was at the behest of his CIA handler who told him to get the job done no matter what. Essentially he would have to "lose" himself no matter what.

I think Michael was pretty damn lucid for someone described to be lost which is why I can't begin to think that things actually worked out for the best. I don't see any point in Madeline dying. It's just noble for noble's sake and doesn't make sense to me. I mean, what Madeline did made sense, but the fact that she was in that position at all didn't make sense to me. I kept looking at Fiona in scenes after the roof top and I kept wanting Michael to at least rip her head off. I kept thinking he was lost then. Too many things happened where he realized that he was merely a pawn which was exactly the case when he was initially burned. Twice he's been burned by the side he chose and he kept running to them. James' group, while ruthless, was going to lose the head of the organization that allowed for the ruthless behavior and Michael's never been far from the edge before that so I don't understand why he would suddenly lose it now.

I'm just genuinely confused about the whole thing and it's starting to make me hate the show.

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[–] WhiskeySam 11 years ago

That's just poor writing, though. They made the CIA worse than James' group and then expected everyone watching to think it's a bad thing Michael would go against the CIA. Why should I be happy with that ending? They could have very easily written it that Michael didn't lose himself and instead did exactly what the OP described: doing what he has always done to help people on a larger scale which his friends would have been okay with. It doesn't help that the moral weight of the argument is made by Fiona who is a self-righteous sociopath.

___________________________
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[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 10 years ago

But he didn't go back to the CIA, either. Both organizations were bad, but James' organization Michael could actually eliminate. Plus there was the little part about James knowing he was part of the CIA so his days were numbered one way or another.

Fiona's been two-faced throughout the series, I can't deny it. Michael took the job in the first place because Fi went rogue and decided to detonate Dead Larry, not trusting Michael to work his way out of it like he had several times already. But I don't think Fi represented the moral high ground in this case; it was more the way out for him. Out from under both the CIA and James' organization.

---
"Is this the band? Betcha U2 must be s***tin' themselves."---The Commitments

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[–] tcmx743 11 years ago

I completely agree.

I'm really not sure why they decided that Michael had to become evil when he decided to take over Jame's organization, why couldn't he stay the same character he always has been? I think that Sonya did need to die, but I think it could have played better if she was somehow killed by the CIA. I'm not saying I prefer Fiona over Sonya but obviously with their history and the fact Fiona is a major character they would end up together and of course Michael cannot have both. Had Michael just sat his friends down and explained everything, with Sonya gone, Michael would be the sole head of the organization and his friends could be his lieutenants. They could keep Michael grounded and not lose himself. They would continue helping people just as they have been doing just on a much larger scale.

As for the ending, are we supposed to believe Michael and Fiona are just going to live peacefully in Ireland? Michael is a spy and needs to help people, it's who he always has been and always will be. Fiona of course is a former member of the IRA and current bounty hunter and small arms dealer. What are they going to do now? They have no job history or resume, no real skills for a normal life and they'll be bored doing anything else.

Almost certainly they'll end up helping people like they did in Miami. But now without Sam and Jesse or their hundreds of friends / connections in the DMV, local police, FBI, etc, they will need to recruit new members / connections to aide their cause. Voila, they're well on their way to forming their own organization to help people.

Besides Michael is of course a super spy and his group is incredibly talented, it seems a waste of raw talent to take down a local drug thug over the drug smuggler for an entire country or protecting a local business owner over a world leader promoting peace in the middle east.

I also found Fiona to be a little unconvincing. She would rather die then live in a world where the Michael she believed in didn't exist, but yet just three episodes prior she was done with Michael and in love with Carlos?

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[–] StealthCougar81 11 years ago

I don't think Sonya had to die at all. She was willing to let Fiona leave despite telling Michael that she was a problem. Going against one's own instinct is incredible when you realize they've been operating with that instinct for a long time or what can be thought to be a long time. James shows mercy, but with a menacing growl. Sonya showed actual mercy and maybe even empathy for someone she doesn't really care for. Despite being James' protege, she actually looked better than the man that was going to give himself up so that Fiona, Jesse, and Sam could live free of the oppressive CIA. I mean, wow.

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[–] StealthCougar81 11 years ago

Sonya was not pure evil. I hate when people editorialized and they have evidence in front of them that contradicts their statement.

A pure evil person would have shot Fiona outright instead of give her a chance to leave. A pure evil person after making such a declaration wouldn't wait and try to convince another person that someone is a problem before killing said problem. Sonya is a bit more pragmatic and while that doesn't stop someone from being ruthless, it also doesn't stop someone from being kind. However, pure evil Sonya is not.

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[–] gjackson3 11 years ago

"but yet just three episodes prior she was done with Michael and in love with Carlos?"

You must not know a single woman in the world! :-)

I felt sorry for Sonya, even though she was pure evil. That look of betrayal on her face, as she realized she was dying, was powerful. [great acting]

I hated that Mattie had to die, but that's one of the things about the show, sometimes it threw you for a loop.

I'm gonna miss the show. All of the main characters were the sort you really liked, and it was good TV. I hated to see it end, but I guess better to end when it has a big following before it turned to crap, like many shows that wear out their welcome do.

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[–] StealthCougar81 11 years ago

Sonya was not pure evil. I hate when people editorialized and they have evidence in front of them that contradicts their statement.

A pure evil person would have shot Fiona outright instead of give her a chance to leave. A pure evil person after making such a declaration wouldn't wait and try to convince another person that someone is a problem before killing said problem. Sonya is a bit more pragmatic and while that doesn't stop someone from being ruthless, it also doesn't stop someone from being kind. However, pure evil Sonya is not.

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[–] gameaddict27 11 years ago

I completely agree, Michael should've knocked Fi out, and let the CIA take Kendrick. Once he has some control of the organization he can take the "guards" away from his mom and plot a way to turn Sonya over to the CIA as well. Little to no bloodshed for the same result, and guess what, the sociopath Fi ruined the whole thing. For someone who doesn't want to kill anyone his decisions certainly create a lot of killing. Not to mention he shot Sonya in the back, after "the organization" gave him a second chance. Instead running back to the CIA and Fi that constantly screw with him.

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[–] naxself 11 years ago

Agreed with the OP. The last two episodes were garbage. During the rooftop scene, I was actively rooting for Fi's death so that Michael could take over for James. The friends were the worst part about the last two episodes, until the horrific music choices (so, so cliche) and the creative decision to let Michael and Fi live through the oh-so-ridiculous final shootout ruined everything.

Having Michael take over James's organization would've been an awesome ending and it would've let him make occasional appearances in the Sam/Jesse spinoff show.

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[–] kingzayd 11 years ago

Second last episode was fine. It makes sense that Michael's friends would act that way.

Last episode wasn't so good. Michael believed in James's mission (even if he wasn't too keen on the methods employed). For him to side with the CIA again so suddenly despite all the stuff he's gone through this season just doesn't make sense.

He should have taken over the organisation, and done what he's been doing throughout the series. Help people.

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[–] GreenBayPagan 11 years ago

I really like this line of reasoning. I hated that Michael murdered Sonja for that stupid Fi. And I dont buy for one minute that Fi wouldnt want to live in a world without Michael; shes been an opportunist for the whole series.

Sonja on the other hand was a great character and hardly pure evil. She could be ruthless when she had to be but if she were as evil as people say she is, she would have killed Fi as soon as she saw her and not even given Michael a chance to talk her down.

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[–] Felixthecat34213 10 years ago

Sonja on the other hand was a great character and hardly pure evil. She could be ruthless when she had to be but if she were as evil as people say she is, she would have killed Fi as soon as she saw her and not even given Michael a chance to talk her down.

Um….this sounds contradictory, also what total nonsense. So Fi was evil because ….why because she wanted to save Michael from turning into a sociopath like James was??

What exactly makes Fiona's character evil, a bitch, or an opportunist? I'm very confused here. Fiona clearly just wants to help Michael get away from what appears to be a very cult-like group of people. Maybe their cause is noble, but the road to hell is paved in good intentions. Eventually Michael would have turned into James or worse Larry if he kept working for the CIA.

The guy was a sociopath, charming, glib, superficial, will take out anything in his path to get his way. Sonya was an unfortunate victim in his scheme, she was manipulated into believing she was fighting for a cause. To an extent there was a cause, but James was a power hungry lunatic who needed to control everything. However let's not forget that Sonya clearly believed killing Fiona was the only way to get rid of the last barrier in Michael Weston. Sonya would have killed MIchael Weston if she believed him to be an enemy, remember the few episodes back where she has a gun to his freaking face? Or were you people not watching…..never seen Fiona do that on the show...

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[–] slayme69 11 years ago

sucks to be you - i loved um

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[–] 1patte 11 years ago

I didn't like the last 2 episodes either. I felt they were very contrived to bring about an ending that was planned solely to elicit an emotional response. After 7 years we fans do come to care about the characters. We also get to know them in some ways and so much of the last 2 episodes were very out of character. Yes There are so many ways they could have made that explosive detonate without her holding it, it was just so unnecessary, it was obvious it was done just to get a response from us. There are just way too many other endings that would have been more reasonable and still have gotten the emotional response they were going for.

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[–] pv71989-1 11 years ago

I think everyone is missing the point.

Remember the old saying "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

James' organization was corrupt top to bottom. It doesn't mean everyone was evil, just willing to do what it took to achieve their goals. As we saw with the men going after Michael and Fi and with the people going after Maddie, Charlie and Jessie, they were willing to kill to keep their mission going.

Michael Westen being in charge was not going to change them into noble people. In fact, if he made too many "changes," Sonya and company would probably have shot him.

I know it's a stretch, but think of "Lord of the Rings." Gandalf tells Frodo that, if he took the Ring, he'd be possessed with the desire to do good with it, but would fall under its evil spell.

Well, James' organization is the One Ring. Michael would have a desire to do good with it, but would eventually succumb to its corruption. Think of it like a moderate trying to take over the Taliban and having them build schools for girls.

James' organization had to be exposed and dismantled.

As for Sonya, Michael was not going to side with her. Though a lot of people seem to hate Fiona, she's been with Michael through thick and thin. Sonya, meanwhile, was a tool of James. Anyone who would pick Sonya over a woman who had his back time and again would not be a person I'd want to work for.

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[–] maggieameanderings 11 years ago

I think everyone is missing the point.

Remember the old saying "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

James' organization was corrupt top to bottom. It doesn't mean everyone was evil, just willing to do what it took to achieve their goals.

And that makes it different from the CIA how exactly?????

Because that sounds like an accurate description of the CIA on the show and in real life.

So how is helping one corrupt organization destroy another corrupt organization a good thing?

Do you prefer the Russian mob or the Mexican cartel?

I know. Let's support Iraq over Iran. Iraq was so much better what with gassing its own people.

You want it in terms of Lord of the Rings.......Sauron or Morgoth? (Because Morgoth/CIA has a lot more power than Sauron/James.)

You know which organization can do and has done more damage? The CIA.

So if you want to look at which was more evil, Michael actually ended up helping the eviler of the two organizations.

my website -- http://maggieameanderings.com/Archive.htm

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[–] StealthCougar81 11 years ago

+1 Maggie

It was even shown in the show how far the CIA was willing to go to get James. They gave a madman the ability to lead a group after Michael brought him in. I don't even remember all that happened with him, but I know he killed a number of people just because. Think his name was Simon.

Then they tell Michael (at least Strong did) that killing his friend was necessary to get the job done. Replace that guy with Sam, Jesse, or Fiona. That guy helped Michael out and Michael cared about him. Dude was even willing to give Michael money because he couldn't give him a job due to his reputation. Imagine that. Guy comes to you looking for a job. You can't give him one because his reputation would make doing business bad, but you're willing to feed the guy and give him money to get him on his feet. Not a loan either. And this is the guy Michael killed for the CIA to get closer to James. Both organizations merged right then and there. There was very little difference between the two which was that Strong had bosses, but his bosses would have viewed the murder as simple casualty.

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[–] ixtrm-sol 11 years ago

the point is michael wasn't helping cia as much as helping himself and his friends to do what is right. slippery slope, if michael took over james' organization he'll inevitably turn into james or the people (and the people behind the people behind those people) that burned him in the first place, his friends were there to turn the situation from the slippery slope into a sudden cliff, and michael had to make the decision right there, right now instead of the gradual corruption from doing piecemeal 'whatever is necessary' to complete the job. michael was being honest about realizing cia was also corrupt but sam had a point that cia is still nominally accountable at least to the us government and its citizens where as james' organization is completely unaccountable to anyone. in the last episodes michael lost faith in the cia but james was still the bigger evil at the time, he wanted out from both sides and being a spy completely, but the only way out was to complete the mission, and play dead. after 7 seasons michael finally realized his friends and family is more important than his loyalty and duty to the cia.

i think the pacing of michael's corruption and sudden face-heel-turn was poorly done, but it otherwise fit with the theme of the show, michael doing what is right without succumbing to complete ruthlessness to complete the job disregarding collateral damages.

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[–] Felixthecat34213 10 years ago

Because that sounds like an accurate description of the CIA on the show and in real life.

So how is helping one corrupt organization destroy another corrupt organization a good thing?

Do you prefer the Russian mob or the Mexican cartel?

I know. Let's support Iraq over Iran. Iraq was so much better what with gassing its own people.

You want it in terms of Lord of the Rings.......Sauron or Morgoth? (Because Morgoth/CIA has a lot more power than Sauron/James.)

You know which organization can do and has done more damage? The CIA.

I think you guys are missing the point a bit here….Michael never sides with the CIA. The CIA is just a ticket out of their control, that's why Michael wants the hard drive. I thought it was obvious that both are pretty horrible. If he doesn't work with the CIA his friends would have had to sit in a cell their entire lives.

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[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 10 years ago

I think the key there is Michael still had some faith in the CIA up until the point Strong was willing to hire Simon to take down James. Tipping Point (the third-to-last ep) was exactly that, the tipping point. Sam, Fi, and Jesse were really the only moral compass Michael could follow at that point, and he wasn't listening.

You have to remember, Michael and Fi are now free of BOTH organizations. Everybody in the CIA thinks Michael and Fiona are dead. And Michael sure as hell couldn't take down the CIA even if he wanted to. But this was his way to get out (and get everybody else out), so better the devil you know.

---
"I wouldn't take it personally, Worf."
"I rather like the way you smell."---"Star Trek: DS9"

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[–] ih8tt 9 years ago

"As for Sonya, Michael was not going to side with her. Though a lot of people seem to hate Fiona, she's been with Michael through thick and thin. Sonya, meanwhile, was a tool of James. Anyone who would pick Sonya over a woman who had his back time and again would not be a person I'd want to work for."
&
StealthCougar81 - "I'm in the same boat as the OP. I'm having trouble reconciling Michael's betrayal of the organization for Fiona."

it was never going to be Sonya, it was always going to be Fiona...recall what Michael said in "Psychological Warfare" about why he blew up the builiding, even knowing there could be innocent people inside, 'my friends were in trouble, I did what I had to do'...and what was James most worried about when questioning him? 'your career has been marked by extreme loyalty, I need to know that you've left those people and alliances behind to join us now'...and he was right to be concerned, because, no matter that Michael had started to go down the dark path, when it came down to it, he chose Fiona over his 'new' friends, Sonya and James and their organization; Nix stayed true to the core of the character he'd created, even though he let him stray in season 7, it's like with an addict, he had to get all the way to the bottom, or, 'break,' as I thought of it (see below), before he could come back and be the man he really was

by 'break' I mean that, and this was brilliantly portrayed by Jeffrey Donovan, in S7E11, the aptly named, "Tipping Point," when James goes to the boathouse to 'rescue' Michael from what he was led to believe was an attack, even though the odds probably weren't good, Michael looks at James with disbelief and says, "You came back for me," and James answers in a kind of 'duh' way, "Of course," and you could almost see something "break" inside his Michael Westen brain, that here is this man he's supposed to be taking down, at the behest of a CIA revealed to be working with a monster (Simon - love Garret Dillahunt!), who showed more loyalty than he'd felt from anyone but Sam, Fi, Jesse & Madeline in a long time, and right then, James seemed like the more noble 'side,' and then when he saw Sonya being wrongfully accused of something he'd done, he jumped in to admit what he'd done, knowing he could die, knowing he'd probably trashed the (CIA) mission, but probably, a very tiny piece of him, hoping against hope, that James would forgive him....but then, on the rooftop, when Sonya is flat-out saying that Fiona had to be killed to 'protect the organization,' and Michael is begging for time to think, his brain kind of 'broke back' and he saw the organization for what it was (and I thought they should've played, in that audio montage, Sam's voice also asking what would happen when someone got in his way, not just Fi's reciting of it) and remember who he was, and 'did what he had to do to protect his friends'

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[–] noofy311 9 years ago

Very well stated.

These events stripped Michael down to his core, allowing him to finally act on his beliefs, not on another person's orders or coercion.

As to the OP's take on the ending, I'm satisfied it didn't end with Michael becoming the new head of his own ops team. He had lost his brother, then his mother, and he finally saw a chance to have true peace in his life: a family with Fiona and Charlie. His obsession with "getting back in" nearly cost him everything he was fighting for. So, he racked up one last massive body count, faked his death, and moved on.

I thought the final touch of having him narrate to Charlie was a stroke of great writing, because that neatly bookends his narration of the entire series, as if we've gotten to experience the last 7 years of Michael's life through Charlie's eyes and ears, as an extended bedtime story. Clever, I felt.

=======
wait for iiiit

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[–] ih8tt 9 years ago

thank you :)

These events stripped Michael down to his core, allowing him to finally act on his beliefs, not on another person's orders or coercion.

exactly, he even says it in the VO, 'you have to make a choice,' at that moment, there was no Strong, no CIA, just Michael, doing what needed to be done, what was right

His obsession with "getting back in" nearly cost him everything he was fighting for.

something Fiona had tried to tell him countless times!

I thought the final touch of having him narrate to Charlie was a stroke of great writing, because that neatly bookends his narration of the entire series, as if we've gotten to experience the last 7 years of Michael's life through Charlie's eyes and ears, as an extended bedtime story. Clever, I felt.

me too, and I never saw it coming, all this time, I thought they were just 'asides,' almost a breaking of the 4th wall, speaking directly to the audience, but that it was to Charlie (and suggested by Fi, using those words we all had memorized from the opening) was so much better

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[–] centrd 9 years ago

Very much in agreement with these three posts.

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[–] albertdavin 11 years ago

they stretched it too much. all michael had to do was tell them he was taking down james and left them in the dark as to what his true plans were. all they needed to see was him walking james out and turning him over to the CIA and they would have been satisfied for the time being.

i'm with you. i was confused the entire 2nd to last episode as to why he didn't just tell them he was getting ready to take james down. that was pretty dumb.

was this the last season?

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[–] the_editor76 11 years ago

I loved the last two episodes and I loved the whole final season.

Cripes, The Chin vs Michael in an all out brawl? Who would've thunk it.

In my so humble opinion as a viewer and not a "poor writing, even though I've never written anything in my life" person, I would say Michael lost his way. He was seduced by having the chance of being in charge of an organisation and doing what he wanted.

The mission was always to take down James. It was all going well but Sonja was going to get executed infront of him. Michael should have let her die but he didn't. That tells you he lost his way, lost sight of the mission. Why should he care if Sonja gets killed? because he started to care for her. When an operative starts caring for the enemy, then he has been compromised.

Great finale, going back to the beginning with the trademark lines.

Should have a little spin off for Sam Axe.

I'd tune in.

- - - - - -
If you don't like the show, stop watching it!

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[–] clydeerwin 11 years ago

Mike's team ruined everything. They arbitrarily decide that Mike is changing sides when they never blew his cover in the past when they didn't know the score. Then they ruin a CIA operation because of how they "feel." I wanted to see them all killed after these last few episodes.

And how about the fact that Mike never fully explains why he is doing it all to them. There was never any reason for him to not fully spell it out to them. The final season had some ballsy moments that made me like it more than the previous two but it had the team acting like idiots throughout.

Glad it over. I spent too much time arguing with the TV screen these last few years of BN. I will always remember the early seasons and hold the characters in fond memory but it sucked in the end.

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[–] Felixthecat34213 10 years ago

Mike's team ruined everything. They arbitrarily decide that Mike is changing sides when they never blew his cover in the past when they didn't know the score. Then they ruin a CIA operation because of how they "feel." I wanted to see them all killed after these last few episodes.

It's not arbitrary, he does change sides otherwise why doesn't he turn James in after episode 11? Listen to what he tells Sam about James' organization. He liked the idea of having complete authority over missions and actually going after bad people. He says this to Sam after they fight.

Michael was confused, he became too absorbed into his role in James' organization. Personally I would have been grateful to see Michael go away after mistreating and abusing his friends for the past two seasons. Especially towards Sam and Fiona, he actually through his friend over a bridge…yeah the guy had lost it by the end. I think I started to hate him during season 5 episode 1 when he treated Sam like sht for not forcibly keeping Fiona from leaving his apartment. Michael is a control freak who thinks he can force people into doing what he believes is best.

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