MovieChat Forums > Bright Star (2009) Discussion > Most boring costume drama since Marie An...

Most boring costume drama since Marie Antoinette


Every second scene is utterly pointless and drawn out until it becomes painful to watch. The characters are mostly superficial, the dialogues uninspired - except for some of the quotes from Keats himself and a few snaps by a delightfully cynical Charles Armitage Brown (Paul Schneider).

Maybe one has to be a romantic at heart to find pleasure in the never ending portrayals of exaggerated feelings about the relationships of the characters. My capability to care has been over-strained.

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My capability to care about your post is over-strained.


I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.

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I am very amused by your post. You accuse this film of containing "exaggerated feelings" whereas others accuse it of being non engaged. I don't agree with either. I found this film to be so revelant of real reconizable feelings that it could almost hurt to watch it at times.

"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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Well said, noagenda. The feelings and emotions are so palpable that the film is as beautiful as it is painful to watch. Best Film of 09 alongside "A Single Man".

"I did cramps the way Meryl Streep did accents" - Calliope (Middlesex)

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I couldn’t agree with you more. This film was pure drivel from start to finish. I could barely stay awake.

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if you wanted more "action" between Fanny and her lover,i can understand what you write!
i saw it twice and i really liked the first time(acting/visual,the story is classic)but as i liked "public enemies" the first time(i didn't feel the "fever") so i saw again the movie and i was able to love every detail in the movie/story and i felt the "fever" between the protagonists!

it's better after every view,this movie will get old well!

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To vk-miesbach: If any character exhibited exaggerated feelings it was Schneider's portrayal of Chas. A. Brown. I don't know who you are, but it's obvious you know very little about the relationship between Brawne and Keats (actually you know nothing considering there's very little known about the relationship to begin with!). Read a biography or two about Keats, read his poetry, read Joanna Richardson's biography on Fanny Brawne, and think about how a young, just-turned 20 year old young woman who was NEVER in love before would have reacted upon hearing of the death of her intense, young genius poet.

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It would be intriguing to know what you'd imagine the reality of this relationship would be like? And if you need excitement to care at all about a brokenhearted dying poet, albeit one of the more famous, in the English language; chances are you should have chosen a different movie.

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No, I tend to like romance and period movies but I found this a total snore. Fanny Brawne just seemed incessantly whiny.

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Cringing Moon: Please cite specific examples of Fanny's "whiny-ness." It shouldn't be difficult since you used the adverb "incessantly." There is NO fine line between being whiny and being forthright. Frankly, I don't recall Fanny ever WHINING about anything. Standing up for herself (when confronted by Chas. Brown), yes; upset when she found out Keats was to leave her for the summer, yes; melodramatic when threatening to kill herself, yes. But remember, Cornish was playing an 18 year old in love for the first time to an intense and passionate young man she probably never REALLY understood. But INCESSANTLY WHINY -- no.

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Sometimes people complain that this film is too slow. I don't agree but I know that some would find it so. That's legit. Sometimes people complain about it being a period piece. Why that is a basis for complaint is beyond me, but they are undoubtedly correct. Some people say that the plot has very little action. That is also correct. But when someone comes here to complain about the quality of the characterizations or the performances I know that they are full of merde. As for it being boring, the human drama of living, loving, and surviving is not at all boring to me.

The best that any film can offer, IMO, are the small intimate details of one particular life in such a way that it breathes that life into its audience and creates a universal experience. Drama, comedy, tragedy, mystery...all of my favorite films have this rare sublime quality. Bright Star does it better than all the rest.

"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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wplains: I can understand, in a way, your complaint against what Charles Brown wore throughout the movie; however, not being able to get inside Campion's/Patterson's heads, I can't explain that. Brown was of Scots ancestry (even though he himself was not from Scotland) and he was, by nature, very economical (as all "good" Scots are reputed to be)so I imagine maybe Campion was trying to express that aspect of his personality. . . (?). Actually, what he wore are called "trews" -- close-fitting trousers usually of tartan (a plaid fabric of Scottish origin, as you probably already know). However, I wonder about your "garish and vulgar" comment about the rest of the costuming. Keats's clothing certainly was neither, nor was Fanny's. The real Fanny Brawne had an interest in fashion, both contemporary (for her time) and historical, kept fashion scrapbooks throughout her life (you can see the real things if you ever get a chance to visit the London Archives), and even designed her own clothes and either sewed them herself or took her plans to her dressmaker. She was, most likely, on the "cutting edge" of what was fashionably popular during her time, and it's highly probable she wore "frocks" that were quite different from her contemporaries. I suspect Campion's intention was to reveal to the audience that aspect of Fanny's creative personality through the clothing she wore. Beau Brummel was a cousin of hers; that relationship is important and explains quite a bit, if you know anything about him.

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Fair enough. Fanny was brazen , flamboyant and crass by all accounts .But her stitching was first class. I think this is all conveyed in the film. Please attribute her character thus.

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Drtimk: I agree with you that Fanny was brazen (for her time), definately flamboyant, but CRASS!? Really?

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Yes definitely by Brown and by most of Keats' friends by accounts. e.g When she pretends to have read Milton's Paradise lost and Brown finds her out ---His attitude expresses "CRASS". However, She doesn't come across as crass in the film generally. We see her from a different perspective.

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wplains: They were bachelors, for crying out loud, in the early 19th century. And by the way, that wasn't dirt under Keats's/Whishaw's nails. Considering Keats spent an unusually large amount of time writing poetry and letters and was using pens that were considerably different from what most of us use to write with today (for example: KEYBOARDS that require no quill and inkwell!), I hazard a logical inference that what you mistook as dirt was most likely INK!!

Actually, the time span was from the summer of 1818 until the fall of 1820. And if we are going to split hairs and be petty about this whole costume thing, Keats was dirt poor and probably didn't have much of a wardrobe and maybe Brown had multiple sets of the same outfit (ha. . .![?]). ANYWAY, THE CLOTHING IS IRRELEVANT; THE POETRY AND PROSE IS NOT.

And Georgette Heyer??? Come on now . . .

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Excuse me, wplains, but I'm not too sure of computer "etiquette" considering I prefer communicating with people either face-to-face or verbally, if you will. If in the world of high-tech, all caps indicates shouting, accept my apologies, please. I put that in all caps because my intentions were to stress what's really important about this whole thing. And I don't appreciate the fact that you have inferred I have a problem with your dislike of the film. Frankly, your opinion is fine with me (by the way, as much as I like Johnny Depp, "The Libertine" sucked [probably figuratively as well as literally]).
What I don't understand is your dissatisfaction with the probable reality of ink under a poet's nails (I believe the right thumb, to be specific) -- especially one from 180+ years ago. Are you forgetting that the film is not about a 21st century writer, or do you not care about the director's desire to make the visuals as real to the time period as possible?
Have you seen "Far and Away" with Tom Cruise? He had loads of dirt under his nails; however, he was playing a dirt-poor (please pardon the pun) Irishman. Funny though how immaculate his teeth were. . . In reality, they should have been "scrunged" up a bit, as well.

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Oh who cares...I've already yelled once in this thread!
I beg to differ however about The Libertine. I liked that film...very gritty and dirty...
Tom Cruise with bad teeth? Never!
I thought the visuals and costuming of Bright Star were superb and this film should have been nominated for every award under the sun.



I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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ah, wplains, we FINALLY (I'm not shouting - I'm stressing!!)agree. I can not stand Tom Cruise, either. Highly overrated!!

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"And someone explain to me with the Mr. Brown character wore the same plaid suit from the very beginning to very end of the movie? Couldn't they afford another costume for him?"

Mr. Brown suffered from genteel poverty. Keats himself was very poor, surviving on the charity of friends. It was not uncommon for people of little to no means, in those times, to have only one or two changes of clothes, or as in Mr. Brown and Mr. Keat's cases, none at all. But there is also the factor that these were two bachelors living alone, working on high art, and not caring about their appearances. Paul Schneider has said that he modeled his character's attitude on today's punk rockers.

As for the costumes. They are fair representation of "fashion" of the day...particularly Fanny's. She was Beau Brummell's niece and her tastes reflected his flair for fashion if not his conservatism.


"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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Dear noagenda: I believe Fanny was a cousin of Beau Brummell. I could be mistaken, although it really makes no difference to true lovers of Keats!

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I read "uncle" in several places. But now I read that her father was a cousin of the Beau. That would make her a 1st cousin, once removed. This would, of course, have been a tentative distinction as Beau Brummell had fled to France in 1816 in disgrace from a great burden of unpaid debts.

"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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wplains, let me put my finger on it for you: the script. Campion directed it and wrote the script. In fairness, this is commonplace. Often directors have a very focused vision and so they write the script. It's clear that Campion made the film she wanted to, but she may have been too close to her own personal vision to see the weaknesses in the script.

I don't think she captured the essence of Brawne's character before she fell in love with Keats. When Keats met Brawne she was not just spirited and concerned about her fashion, she was also a coquette. This was Brown's objection to her. Campion seemed more intent on showing her as a spirited woman who fell in love with this brilliant poet and he, tentatively, fell in love with her. Campion, cut to the chase, as it were. She clearly saw their love as passion thwarted by societal convention and by the possessive male friendship of Brown towards Keats. That was the conflict that Campion played on.

I think most fans of the movie come with an undying love for Keats and so naturally this film can do no wrong. I, too, have long loved Keats' poetry. However, the film missed it's mark for me as a love story because we never see the moment they fall in love. Film is a visual experience that just isn't about the sets, the art direction, the locations, the costumes, etc, we must also VISUALLY experience the emotion. It's alright for the film to be simple and reflect the ordinariness of extraordinary, passionate love. A film can be exquisite in its simplicity, but it still must pack an emotional punch.

When did they fall in love?

I never saw it. In fact, Campion played it as if they were always in love. Like the film started after that electric moment. At the very beginning of the film Fanny brings an under-the-weather Keats his tea and it's clear that she is interested in him. When Fanny takes the book of poetry from her sister and is immediately swept away by the poetry, I think Campion takes for granted that the many Keats poetry lovers will identify with being 'swept away' by his exquisite verse. And clearly, his fans have. But that's not good filmmaking. The goal is to make people who are totally unaware of Keats the poet fall in love if not with the poet himself, but in love with the love story as well as the lovers themselves.

When Brown challenges Brawne's sincerity it comes off obnoxious in accordance with the way Cornish and Campion has chosen to portray this woman. This is followed by the Valentine note scene in which Fanny, heretofore portrayed as spirited by Cornish suddenly cannot find her voice. Huh??? The scene may have underscored Campion's belief that this was a triangle relationship but it did nothing in terms of building the intimacy of the relationship. Also, Campion's tendency to shoot sparingly in close-up does nothing to heighten the passion of this relationship.

Utltimately, I can understand the criticism by some. And the Academy did right to only recognize the Costumes.

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Edess - In defense of Jane I would like to interject here about some viewer's inability to see any emotion between the two characters. Jane has said in interviews that she was greatly influenced by the work of Robert Bresson's Diary of a Country Priest during her time away from film. I don't know if any of you have seen any of this director's work. I've seen several of his films and am always quite shocked at the lack of emotion in all the characters - but Jane has been accused of this before even before she admitted she was influenced by his work. In any case, it seems that everyone takes away something different from her work. Also, Jane is an artist. She went to art school - thus the reason her films always, no matter the content, look like works of art - to me anyway. Thanks for your points but I disagree that the costuming was the only reason to reward this film. How could you miss the cinematagraphy? Did you really think a work like District 9 or Avatar was more artistic then this film?

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you have expressed yours with thoughtful intelligence. However, I do, for one, question your implied expertise on Fanny Brawne's character. "I don't think she [Jane Campion] captured the essence of Brawne's character before she fell in love with Keats."

Have you studied her? You seem to be saying so. As all of her letters to Keats were destroyed, we have been left with only her letters to his sister as well as her limited journal writing to get to know her. Jane Campion herself said she relied upon her knowledge of young girls in general, the descriptive language Keats used for her, as well as the few facts that are known, such as her devotion to the art and craft of fashion.

"When did they fall in love?" One of the conceits films often use is the "falling love moment." It does happen in life that one event totally refocuses a relationship, but in truth it is more reflective of how love forms and builds to layer it over time from attraction to infatuation to finally love. What are the critical moments when it crosses over from one stage to the other? Well, it flows back and forth a bit and would be very hard for outsiders to discern. The end result is obvious, but not necessarily the moments. That's one of the aspects of this film that I like, that it has that truth to it.

I'm not going to dispute your take on the Valentine's scene because your read of the entire scene is so off the mark that it is obvious that we perhaps saw two different films. And although you might agree with the Academy's decision to all but neglect this fine film, the vast majority of film critics across the globe have not written anything that agrees.


"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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Sorry, I disagree. The "hand scene" is clearly where they fall in love and I believe this is beautifully and poetically (as well suited) underplayed. Sorry , but as a lover of Keats, I found this movie exceeded my expectations. And not regarding Keats. It is much more a movie from Fanny's viewpoint . She is the sympathetic and gorgeous essence of this film and of course this film is far more than that. It captures both a simple yet complex love story , which is old yet needly modern.

But nearly as important as this, it captures a beautiful glimpse of Pre- Industrial/Dickinsonian Britain; "Cottage Industry" Britain if you like.

When life was slow and languid. Where people after working hard in fields , mines or whatever craft or skill they had, entertained themselves with shared home cooked meals,poetry, recitals, music, dancing and the long lost art of meaningful conversation. Where friends were friends, and family was utterly sacred. It is a gorgeous movie in so many ways. Superbly crafted, acted, directed and filmed. Mere costumes does it no justice whatsoever.

To fully appreciate this film , I believe you have to have your beauty, sensitivity, and emotional radars completely switched on. Let yourself go, and experience those wonderful emotions that are the essence of soul; and allow yourself to be fully human. Then you will see art in its highest form.

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Dear Drtimk,

"It captures both a simple yet complex love story , which is old yet needly modern.

But nearly as important as this, it captures a beautiful glimpse of Pre- Industrial/Dickinsonian Britain; "Cottage Industry" Britain if you like.

When life was slow and languid. Where people after working hard in fields , mines or whatever craft or skill they had, entertained themselves with shared home cooked meals,poetry, recitals, music, dancing and the long lost art of meaningful conversation. Where friends were friends, and family was utterly sacred. It is a gorgeous movie in so many ways. Superbly crafted, acted, directed and filmed. Mere costumes does it no justice whatsoever."


Very sweet and well stated. Many thanks for this.

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drimk, i wholeheartedly agree with your entire post. i couldn't find a thing wrong with this film. i loved every single thing about it, the acting, the costumes, the setting, the music, the cinematography, the smallest of details. it was breathtaking, i even shed a tear in more than one spot.

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"I don't think she captured the essence of Brawne's character before she fell in love with Keats."

I COMPLETELY AGREE.

"When did they fall in love? I never saw it. In fact, Campion played it as if they were always in love."

BRAVO! BRILLIANT ANALYSIS. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.


I think Campion takes for granted that the many Keats poetry lovers will identify with being 'swept away' by his exquisite verse. And clearly, his fans have. But that's not good filmmaking.


EXACTLY. I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO ADD.

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To Cringing--I agree with you. I would also go further and say that Keats, as portrayed in this film, is so insipid, pathetic, bloodless, and indeed LIFELESS--that I wonder anyone could find anything attractive enough about him to want to spend more that 3 seconds in his inert company. He's spineless and indecisive at best, and completely emasculated and infantilized at worst, by his malignant and insuffrable (and obviously in love with him) friend, Charles Brown.

How can anyone portrayed as so drained of all intensity and joie de vivre be able to write ANY poetry at all, let alone the stuff Keats actually wrote??! Had he been a fictional creation, Mssrs. Darcy, Heathcliff, and Rochester would've slapped this vague little pantywaist about the head and shoulders and tossed his consumptive a$$ out in the road.

I wasted 16 euros (because my daughter & I were invited to go with some friends) on this and I was literally writhing in my seat. I couldn't wait for the damn thing to be the hell over with. Forget the money, I want those two hours of my life back.

My daughter was enraged, because she could've stayed home and stared at the ceiling instead, and been much more entertained.

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure..."

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...I guess the opinion of someone who frequents films made from comic books must mean something, however, I'm not sure what...

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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Really Tiger, was I talking to you?! I was addressing myself to the OP. If you've got to resort to Ad Hominem attacks, it must mean you're really unable to keep up with the level of polite discourse taking place here. Perhaps you should just sit on the sidelines, watch and learn, and keep your condescension to yourself. Honestly!

It doesn't matter what boards I visit. I don't know you and I don't care about you. And I certainly don't care if you love this movie. Why don't you go post somewhere where they care about your opinion. The fact that MY opinion disturbed you enough that you stalked my username must mean that I've had an effect on you with my argument.

I saw this movie and thought it was stupid and lame. I made a number of very cogent criticisms of it on a thread entitled: "MOST BORING COSTUME DRAMA SINCE...." Those of us who DIDN'T like the damn thing should be able to go to a forum and discuss our views without having to waste time being ambushed by people like you.

If you care to stalk my posts further, you'll notice I very curteously didn't go onto a thread entitled, "BRIGHT STAR: BEST MOVIE EVER MADE, EVER!!!!!!!" and air my opinions there. So, bugger off. Pfft.


"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure..."

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I thought your talking about Keats being 'emasculated' was pretty off topic and inferring the homosexual inclination of another character also ad hominem since neither of those opinions have anything to do with how 'boring' the film was since that WAS/IS the topic "the most boring", etc. etc. Also, just for the record, when you post something on a public board, anyone can reply to it whether you like it or not. If you DON'T like it or don't want to discuss other opinions, then DON'T post anything. You're not going to teach me anything thus, there's no learning involved. We're discussing opinions and opinions are just that opinions and not facts. What you said was YOUR opinion and not a fact.
Funny how you resorted to childish tactics yet we are all supposed to learn from you?
As far as your opinion being different from mine, yes you're entitled to it but at least I didn't rant through 4 paragraphs of drivel about why YOU shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion now did I?

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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You need to go find out what ad hominem means. It means resorting to personal attacks, as in YOUR personal attacks on another user, namely me. Ad hominem has nothing to do with my opinion regarding the presentation of the characters in the film. I, at least, don't try to stifle opinions I don't like by making a snarky drive-by remark about their posting history in order to derail their post or embarrass them into silence, so...I'm posting anyway.

I don't think Keats' emasculation was off topic at all. In fact, it was very central to the topic. Call it whatever you want, but it certainly showed a distinct lack of character on his part when he's so easily swayed this way and that by the two people who have the most influence in his life. I also believe that the filmmakers portrayed the dynamic between Brown and Keats in such a way as to intimate a love attraction between them. I didn't use the term homosexual--you did. I call'em like I see'em and that's the subtext that I saw. Brown's interactions with Fanny were more those of a jealous lover attempting to prevent the advances of a potential rival. The fact that this spiteful catfight plays out over and over and over again can indeed be considered supremely boring, and I said so in my previous post, since Keats doesn't seem to have any will of his own to determine his own mind and his own fate. He very passively allows the two of them to get on with it. In fact, he appears to goad their malice and competitiveness toward one another by spouting encouraging poetry to each whenever he's dragged too near one side or the other. How manly, honorable or attractive is that?? It's not pretty to watch, either.

Another aspect of the underlying sexual tension between Brown and Keats manifests with the Valentine's card Brown sends to Fanny. Brown very much seems to have a dual agenda with this gambit, especially since we've been given to understand these two despise one another and thus the card is not really to be taken at face value. First, it appears he wishes to 'neutralize' Fanny as a rival by coyly presenting himself to her as a suitor (if Brown courts her, perhaps she'll be diverted from her interest in Keats in a way that allows Brown's relationship with him to progress). Second, Fanny's curious acceptance of the Valentine's card can be (and indeed WAS) used by Brown to impress upon Keats the fickleness and inconstancy of Fanny's affections. Why did Fanny keep the Valentine's card rather than immediately returning it with disgust? Why didn't she vehemently reject the sentiments it expressed the moment she received it?? Brown even says as much to Keats in the woods: Fanny cannot be trusted; she's nothing but a wayward flirt.

This is not a normal man's interaction with his 'best mate' concerning the latter's girlfriend. Men just don't get involved that way because they know better. If your mate's GF is a tramp, you're better off letting him work it out by himself, because if you say anything against her, you're dooming your friendship with him. But Brown's actions only make sense if he's got a personal emotional stake in the issue: "Let her go, I won't misuse your affections like she will. Want proof...she kept the Valentine's card, didn't she?!" We could've had an end to this idiocy right there & then when Boy and Boy resolve their love for one another and go off arm in arm, while girl thanks her lucky stars for her reprieve and wanders home to make a better match with a suitable whelp from amongst the gentry. That, at least, could've been fun.

But no, the filmmakers seemed determined to wring every last snivel out of this dreary film. So, Keats' ambivalence and dithering back & forth between Brown and Fanny played out again and again. I was thinking, "they've painted themselves into a narrative corner; this seems set to go on forever." The same thought must've occurred to the director too, because just then, out of the blue, the decision was literally taken out of Keats' hands by the sudden revelation of Brown's offscreen dalliance with...the scullery maid!! Wow, talk about a lame-a$$ Deus Ex Machina to move this stalled horse-plop along! Brown seemed as put out about it as anyone, but as he can't support his unwelcome new family AND Keats, too, he's very unceremoniously shoved off the set. We don't hear from him again, after he's spent pretty much the whole picture being a total intrusive douche.

Well, Keats is finally set free (too bad we don't care). Unfortunately, Keats-as-autonomous decisionmaker is actually WORSE than Keats-as-puppet of more powerful personalities. You know it's a train wreck when Brown, the one character you spend the movie SO wishing he would just go away, would actually come back and take charge of these chimps! So, I'm not the one with the problem. This movie's the problem.

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure..."

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Wow, you really have nothing to do...you need to look up the word 'minimalism'.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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Also, I've been dying to say this: MARIE ANTOINETTE IS NOT A BLOODY BORING FILM. IT'S WONDERFUL AND I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE PUTTING *beep* ON ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL PERIOD PIECES EVER!!!
Ok. I'm done now.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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Are you really done now? Truly?? Great, now if you'd make like Mr. Brown and just go away, too, it'd be a perfect thread!

BTW--thanks for reading my ENTIRE post! It was designed to wear you out. Mission accomplished, I'd say.

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit...it's the only way to be sure..."

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Apparently you're not very good at reading between the lines. I never read your post because of it's length, thus the reason my retort was phrased as it was. So I'm afraid you're mission was not accomplished. FAIL.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

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