The punchline of it all.


4 threads. 4 threads about people discussing how voting is pointless. Just a small handfull of people who realize what a fruitless endeavor it all is.

Take this and turn on the news, and watch...

The viceral anger about a comment from Kerry-stein. Hours of debate about whether he's a communist or just a lousy comedian.

Hear the people scream about a congress who might have hid a pedophile's activities for years.

Hatred spewed at Bush, Pelosi, Kennedy and Santorum.

Hatred spewed by Bush, Pelosi, Kennedy and Santorum.

Listen to the never ending details of economic scandals, sexual perversions, idiotic comments and people who run the world but have no clue as to what's going on in it.

Watch tapes of a radio announcer doing a tasteless impression of an actor battling a crippling disease. Listen to the partisan rhetoric back and forth about what a great hero or what a cowardly shill Michael J. Fox is.

Mekaka

See cranky old men argue about technology when you know they still have a pulse dial phone. Especially the one who regulates the internet without ever having experienced it.

Take a look at some nice attack adds, claiming faults of character everywhere from being a thief and a sexual predator to being a ... CANADIAN <gasp>.

Turn on the radio and listen to how liberals are traitors and conservatives are nazis. Call up, let your opinion be known to the world.

Tax the poor, fight for the rights of the rich. And check out how illegal aliens are breaking into America to steal your job.

Oh yeah, and that little war thingy. Iran, North Korea, Darfur and a whole lot of other parts of the world where we act or don't act depending on the will of our elected <pfft> officials.

4 threads. A few thousand electrons, on a half dozen capacitors in the basement of some university that represent the real truth about what this grand democracy really is.

It's almost funny. Almost. But I guess I botched the joke.


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[deleted]

totally great post.

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So now that we all agree with you, what are we going to do about it?

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There are a list of three things you can do.

1) Nothing. When I say nothing, I mean escape the realm of politics as best you can. This is the option most people have chosen obviously since only half the eligible voters ever show up. Dismiss leadership as something that just happens like the rain and really get into important things like reality tv. A very strong option!

2) Join em'. This is becoming increasingly popular. It's pretty easy to do. Just cheer the republicans or whomever is in charge. Anyone who tries to debate you, call them a liberal pansy cry baby. It'll peave them off and you can get pleasure from other people's misery. It's like watching an episode of fear factor. Learn to enjoy the pain others endure at the same time denying any responsibility in the process. Act dumb. Make magnanomous lies about what the other side wants. Join others. And bask in the glow that you are on the right side. Humanity is very flexible, and any action or inaction can be argued to be good.

3) Fight em'. It's always been a viable option. Spend your life in a virtual alley up against 10 men who want to rape you. You'll lose. And you will lose bad. But at least you can give yourself a pat on the back for fighting the good fight. Most of your life will be spent in abject misery. But every once in a while, your team will gain a yard. Only to lose 10 on the next play. But live for that yard. Die for that yard.

Remember, Orwell said that the vision of humanity... It's symbol.. Is a boot stomping your face into the ground FOREVER. These are powerful forces. I'm just a 5' tall chick. One can't change the currents in the ocean. One must decide what sort of niche they want to pursue. Fight the current, go with the current, or jump over board and drown.

Have a nice day ;)

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I disagree completely that fighting corruption is pointless. Bev Harris is doing it, and winning. Many revolutions have been successful with the participation of less than 5% of the population. Sure the vast majority of people would rather follow than lead, but they would rather follow what's right than what's obviously wrong.

Besides, I HAVE to fight corruption. My conscience wouldn't let me sleep at night otherwise.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"What is it about our voting system that encourages rebuke from lesbians? What a strange phenomenon."

What is it about you that assumes you can determine someone's sexual preference from a posting which makes no reference to it whatsoever? What is it about you that assumes an opinion is a rebuke? What is it about your voting system that gives you the slightest confidence in it? What a strange phenomenon.

"The manner in which they were all smugly laughing in certain situations was rather disgusting."

Maybe they were just trying to see some humour in a very serious situation. How is that disgusting?

"They seem pretty fanatical, obsessive almost."

Gee, maybe if I had reams of evidence showing democracy was being destroyed right before my eyes, I'd be a little fanatical, even obsessed about it. Hey, call me misguided...

"People like that tend to start fitting the facts to their system."

That's a pretty serious charge. What's your evidence?

"They can no longer objectively review information because they are so convinced everything is some part of a mass conspiracy."

So why don't you take your own advice and look into this a little more? After all, you believe in democracy, don't you? You take election fraud seriously, don't you? Or are you one of these despicable scumbags that believes it's OK to steal elections as long as the "good guys" win?

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[deleted]

"I did look into it a little more, after initially seeing the documentary and getting the same shock effect that you appear to still harbor."

I've been going over the evidence in your country's ridiculous election system with a fine tooth comb since 2000, as have many other concerned people who realize that without a properly counted vote, you don't have democracy. The evidence is voluminous, irrefutable, and astounding in it's scope and brazenness.

The only shock I get about this topic these days is at the astounding naivete of people who can't see what's going on right under their noses!

"First, our democracy is not being stolen out from under us."

You can call having an unelected despot in the White House passing laws that totally destroy your Constitution, who ignores the Congress by writing over 800 "Signing Statements" on the Bills he signed which nullify the laws, who recently removed Habeus Corpus from your legal system - which is part of the Common Law system created in the 13th century, who uses lies to invade and occupy sovereign nations, what you want. I call a spade a spade.

"If any sort of serious manipulation were going on, there would be a disparity in exit polls and election results that is impossible to ignore. I'm not talking a 2004 Ohio Olberman/stat geek variation, but a completely impossible one."

You seem to be quite good at ignoring the fact that exit polls across your country showed that Kerry won in 2004, yet the election went to Bush. This is the first time in history that exit polls were wrong. But hey, if you think odds in the quintillions that the exit polls were wrong is still in the realm of possibility, that's your right. You deserve the government you get.

"You honestly think that the votes are less secure now today even with poorly secured systems than they were when individual people were hand by hand counting votes in districts and just passing the tallies to the state?"

Yes, I do. Before the HAVA, less than 50% of people voted using these ridiculously insecure and inaccurate machines. Now more than 80% are - and there is NO PAPER TRAIL to verify the machines are doing their job.

"What did the diebold marketing guy say, "Votes cannot be changed on the memory card because there is no executable code." This is the statement they are seen laughing at, when it's actually a factual statement."

It IS a factual statement, but it's not a relevent statement, which is why they were laughing. The card merely contained a file with positive and negative votes, that added up to zero. The self-check failed to detect that the file had negative votes in it.

"In the end, they get a guy to plant a virus on a card that changes votes."

That statement proves that you're obviously in way over your head here...

"That in no way refutes the DieBold guys statement, but they proceed to act like they just cracked the system wide open."

That's because they DID crack the system wide open! If you fail to see that, I can't help you.

"In the end, all they have is the claim that the system isn't secure. What system is?"

ANY system is more secure than this Diebold system. It has holes at many levels you could drive a truck through. Closed, proprietary systems with no public verification is as insecure as it gets. Paper ballots with published poll totals is the simplest, most transparent, most easily verifiable, and therefore the most secure system out there. It's not bloody rocket science, mate!

"They propose no solution..."

The solutions are obvious! Maybe you should watch the documentary again. Maybe you should go to blackboxvoting.org or any of the dozens of really good sites out there and read about the myriad solutions yourself. Or maybe you could help out by proposing a solution of your own, but you're probably content to have your votes stolen anyway. It's all OK if the "Good Guys" win anyway, right?

"...that's why when they show up at government proceedings in Ohio where the state is purchasing a bunch of voting machines and ache and cry, nobody cares."

Actually it was a county in Ohio, not the whole state, and they spent $22 million of taxpayer dollars (federal dollars, under the HAVA) on machines which have been proven time and time again to be insecure and unreliable. Other counties have thrown out Diebold for lying and incompetence. They're facing dozens of lawsuits, their stock is in the toilet, they've lost several executive officers due to scandel, and entire states have banned them from selling their machines! Their reputation is now so bad, it'll be a miracle if they could sell their crap to anybody ever again without having to bribe somebody (but that would never happen, would it?).

"If Americans ever wanted change, no amount of election rigging could prevent it. The fact is, they don't want it. Americans are too caught up in their own lives to worry about the big picture, and as a result the big picture will continue to grow uglier."

OK. You get the government you deserve. How sad and pathetic your view of your fellow Americans is. The rest of the world hopes you're wrong about that, because your government has a habit of really screwing up a lot of other countries right now, and we don't know how much more we can take. We're kinda hoping "The Greatest Democracy In The World" would work well enough to ensure things didn't get this bad, let alone worse...

"The people behind this movie aren't encouraging objective thought, they're just poking at the conspiracy theorist in everyone."

Sure. Whatever. How do you breathe with your head up there? Do you have to remove it to take a dump?

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[deleted]

It's a good thing you're in the minority on this one!

I'm not going to waste any more time on you after this reply, since you obviously have serious comprehension issues. I'll just address your more moronic statements.

"Reading blackboxvoting.org and the many clones of that site in no way makes you an expert on the issue. All it does is make you an expert on their views of the issue. They are one sided, just like all the crackjob 9/11 conspiracy sites."

That's right, shoot the messengers! Since you have problems comprehending facts that a 10 year old could understand, it's no wonder you also can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. Fortunately, the majority of people don't suffer from that mental deficiency.

"All I've gotten from you in this thread is the company line..."

I'm against voter theft from any company or person. You seem to believe everything Diebold says. Who exactly is towing the company line?

"Being told I'm "in over my head" is a little funny, considering I'm a software developer and have also worked years in the field with information security."

Who do you work for? I'd be happy to tell your employers that you don't even know the difference between a data file and an executable file. You also don't know what a virus is. As for your expertise in information security: if you don't realize that the Hursti Hack is as big a security hole you can have, you have no business being in information security. You should be fired for incompetence.

"This scenario achieved a limited result, which is altering vote results on a local machine. Had they carried that card over to the machine that keeps total count, flags would have shot up according to DieBold."

There you go again! They didn't use a "local machine", it was a central tabulator. The voting machines create the data file on the memory cards, which are gathered by the poll workers and driven to the county HQ, and are then inserted one at a time into the central tabulator, which totals the votes. So if Diebold said what you said they said, they are lying right in the face of truth, just as you are.

"I'm inclined to believe [Diebold], since I didn't see them lie about anything else."

AGAIN with the moronic statements! It appears you see only what you want to see. Why? Do you work for Diebold? They said they had fixed all their security holes - they hadn't fixed ANY. They said you couldn't hack the vote with a memory card - the Hursti Hack proved otherwise. They denied they received money from Republicans - Bev showed an accounting document proving they did. I'm not going to bother going on, since you obviously believe everything Diebold says.

"They even admitted that they had source code to one of their machines sitting on a public server, which shows an extreme lack of responsibility. If they were going to lie, you'd think they'd lie about that at least."

They DID lie about it, as was plainly shown in the documentary. They only admitted it when the questioning official forced them to. BTW, it was their entire code base, not just the code for one of their machines.

"In 2004, the only exit polls that showed statistically significant variations were in Ohio."

WRONG!

http://www.exitpollz.org/
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf


"Like any conspiracy theorist, you're going so incerdibly hard at what I'm saying with your stockpile of "facts"..."

They're not "facts", pal. They're FACTS. You see what you want to see. I see the truth.

"...you fail to realize that we're in agreement on principle, which is that the country is a joke."

I don't have comprehension problems. I can understand and remember what I have read. You stated in your first post "I agree that the voting system could use a major overhaul". So you want to change the system. Then change it! Go to blackboxvoting.org and air your grievences. But realize that Bev did not produce that documentary, a team from the U.K. did. BBV is attacking fraud on ALL fronts. Don't take my word for it, go and find out for yourself...

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[deleted]

Congratulations, you managed to get me out of "retirement" already!

"Um, excuse me Mr. Norton, but I didn't say anything about executable files or data files. I said executable code."

All computerised information is stored in files. If it contains executable code, it is an executable file.

"Executable code that makes a system perform as it wasn't intended to is considered a virus."

WRONG! A computer virus is a piece of code that replicates itself like a biological virus. What you're talking about is a trojan or worm.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/T/Trojan_horse.html
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/V/virus.htm

Do you understand now, Mr. Computer Security?

BTW, since the file was merely data read by the tabulator, it was not executed. Are you contending that a data file with incorrect information is a virus? By that definition, your postings are viruses!

"If you actually knew what you were talking about here and not just attempting to repeat what you read on a blog somewhere, you might know the difference."

I've been a computer programmer since 1978. I work with mainframes, minis, micros, networks, workstations, *nix, Mac, and Microsoft operating systems and applications. I was on the internet before there was a world wide web. I had a modem back in the 300 baud days, before we even had hard drives. Trust me, I know about viruses.

"No matter, I'm going to take the fact that you didn't deny that you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theories as a positive response that you do, and therefore conclude that you are, in fact, just another nut."

Jumping to conclusions again, aren't you?

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[deleted]

Well, I am stunned. The republicans were thrown out of power in both houses. Santorum lost (and boy does it still feel good to say that). Still...

$2.6 Billion dollars spent in a congressional midterm election. That's billion with a B. All this money is from corporations who OBVIOUSLY aren't donating their monies but investing it.

Santorum and the guy who got his butt kicked by spent $40 million collectively for their chance to get the seat. Santorum lost, but I'm sure he'll be rewarded with some private sector job that pays him millions for the rest of his life as gratitude for services rendered.

Hillary Clinton, in her race to completely crush her unworthy foe spent the most. Nearly $55 million by herself. $55 million spent on a seat she could've won with no money down. $55 million for a job that will last for less than 2 years since she'll most likely try and make a run for the presidency.

When's the last time you laid down money to get a job? When's the last time you laid down money for a chance at a job? When's the last time you laid down FIFTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS to get a 2 year gig? Though to be "fair" she may lose, and keep her job for a total of 6 years since she's a senator and not some mear congresswoman.

A $2.6 BILLION investment in the future for companies that want regulations laxed, or contracts awarded or whatever else will make them more money. $2.6 BILLION spent on around 1000 people to fight for under 500 jobs.

And you want to argue that your democracy isn't broken. That somehow your opinion matters one iota.

You want to debate that diebold is on the up and up, because a system without a paper trail can't be proven to be tampered with.

You want to put forth the assertion that somehow with $2.6 BILLION invested in these races that the company that makes the voting machines should be held to the same standard of juris prudance as someone who parks in a handicapped spot or a jaywalker?

You have the audacity to somehow blame the documentary makers for "doing it for the money"? ROTFLMAO.

You can't debate a religious person because the answers are already written for them. Faith is not something to be argued out through reason and logic.

You can't debate a slogan. And politicians use the same techniques to sell issues like Tide uses to sell detergent.

How the heckles are you going to debate an America who think his country is perfect just the way it is?

Dwight D. Einsenhower warned Americans about the dangers of the "military-industrial complex". But damn the CIA World Factbook and how they place American in each category. Waving a giant foam finger as their team continuously loses, you still gotta support the team.

On second thought, reality REALLY sucks. Better to call me a paranoid commie nazi dyke and forget all about it 5 seconds later.

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"$2.6 Billion dollars spent in a congressional midterm election. That's billion with a B. All this money is from corporations who OBVIOUSLY aren't donating their monies but investing it. "

Really? ALL of it?
None of that money came from individuals?
I sure hope you have proof of that.
And what is a donation to a political campaign if not an investment? After all, people invest in the ideologies they believe in, don't they?
You invested time in pointing fingers at the right EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST CONTROL of the house.

"And you want to argue that your democracy isn't broken."

How is it broken again? The people spoke and the left got what they wanted, which was a transfer of power from the right to the left. If the people wanted that and it happened, how is it broken again?

"You want to debate that diebold is on the up and up, because a system without a paper trail can't be proven to be tampered with. "

If Diebold isn't on the level, and the left is the one making the accusation, yet the left won, then Diebold must be in the pocket of the left.....
Yet you don't hear conservatives pointing fingers and screaming election fraud...
Incongruous statements make no sense.....

"You have the audacity to somehow blame the documentary makers for "doing it for the money"?"

Well, that was at least part of it. It was also released just around election time even though it had been completed months prior.....
And the documentarians and production companies DID get paid for their work....
Part of their reason was without question to raise the issue to the publics consciousness, but denying that money was a factor is ridiculous.

"You can't debate a religious person because the answers are already written for them. Faith is not something to be argued out through reason and logic. "

Well, that's true. To the non-believer there are no answers. To the faithful, there are no questions....

"You can't debate a slogan. And politicians use the same techniques to sell issues like Tide uses to sell detergent."

That's partially true. But politicians sell their viewpoints and opinions in an effort to gain trust and win elections.

"How the heckles are you going to debate an America who think his country is perfect just the way it is? "

You mistake the beauty of america for a flaw, which is a huge mistake. The beauty of this country is that we are able to recognize and discuss our flaws and problems. The next step is to work to solve them. No american thinks america is perfect. Most believe it is still the greatest nation.

Perhaps instead of judging a nation based on your preconceived notions of right and wrong, you should consider that there is no right and wrong when it comes to a nations actions. There is only hope and no hope. It is pretty clear which side you fall into on that....
Personally, I see massive opportunity for beneficial change.

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"$2.6 Billion dollars spent in a congressional midterm election. That's billion with a B. All this money is from corporations who OBVIOUSLY aren't donating their monies but investing it. "

"Really? ALL of it?
None of that money came from individuals?
I sure hope you have proof of that."

Nice little nitpicking straw man argument. Can't you do any better than that?

"And what is a donation to a political campaign if not an investment? After all, people invest in the ideologies they believe in, don't they?
You invested time in pointing fingers at the right EVEN THOUGH THEY LOST CONTROL of the house."

An investment, in a financial sense, expects a direct monetary payback, unlike a donation, which technically comes without strings attached. But you knew that, didn't you? And you know that the level of lobbying going on in your governments can't be good for democracy, don't you? It means that people with money decide the direction of government. That's a plutocracy, not a democracy, and certainly not a republic.

"How is it broken again? The people spoke and the left got what they wanted, which was a transfer of power from the right to the left. If the people wanted that and it happened, how is it broken again?"

It's broken because no matter who gets elected, the plutocrats win, because they fund both sides. The vast majority of Americans are against the Iraq war, yet most of the Democrats voted for it. The Democrats are no better than the Republicans, they just grease you up a little bit before screwing you.

"If Diebold isn't on the level, and the left is the one making the accusation, yet the left won, then Diebold must be in the pocket of the left....."

That's a joke, right?

"No american thinks america is perfect."

I've met quite a few who would disagree with you on that.

"Most believe it is still the greatest nation."

You'll find that the more someone agrees with that statement, the more ignorant he is about the rest of the world.

You'll also find that almost everybody else on the planet disagrees with that - especially since that idiot Bush stole his way into office in 2000. And you people let him get away with it. Twice!

"...you should consider that there is no right and wrong when it comes to a nations actions."

WTF?? Invading and occupying a sovereign nation based on lies is wrong, period. Do you disagree with that?

Murdering innocent people in the name of democracy is wrong, period. Do you disagree with that?

Dropping thousands of tons of atomized uranium on innocent people is wrong, period. Do you disagree with that?

Dropping millions of cluster bombs on civilian populations is wrong, period. Do you disagree with that?

Do I really need to go on? I have plenty more examples...

"Personally, I see massive opportunity for beneficial change."

Opportunity is wasted without action. Time for action, Americans! The rest of the world is watching, and hoping you citizens have the guts to do what you need to do to make amends for the wrongs your government has committed IN YOUR NAME.

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"Nice little nitpicking straw man argument. Can't you do any better than that? "

How is that a strawman, nitpicking argument.

There is it, plain as day. An actual argument, not a strawman....

I'll requote it for you:
"All this money is from corporations who OBVIOUSLY aren't donating their monies but investing it."

All of it.

"An investment, in a financial sense, expects a direct monetary payback, unlike a donation, which technically comes without strings attached. But you knew that, didn't you? And you know that the level of lobbying going on in your governments can't be good for democracy, don't you? It means that people with money decide the direction of government. That's a plutocracy, not a democracy, and certainly not a republic. "

True. BUT there ARE other kinds of investments, no? For instance, I invest my money in US Bonds. I expect nothing in return, save for my small return on money and the knowledge that I am contributing to the finances of our little democracy.
I also invest money in the democratic party though donations. I expect nothing in return, save for the party to have my money to use to further itself and sustain itself.
An investment does not guarantee or require a financial return, nor does it guarantee or require favors be paid back. Lobbying IS out of control, but clearly steps are being taken to limit it.
Lobbyists are not all evil. Some lobbyists lobby for good things, like medical research and advancing the pro-choice agenda. Lobbying is intended as a means to bring issues to a politicians attention.

"It's broken because no matter who gets elected, the plutocrats win, because they fund both sides. The vast majority of Americans are against the Iraq war, yet most of the Democrats voted for it. The Democrats are no better than the Republicans, they just grease you up a little bit before screwing you. "

Agreed. Good point. i don't attribute this to a plutocracy, but rather to a flawed concept of how things actually work. Most bills aren't so much as read before being signed into law. We elect a representative government based on what we believe they will do. Execution may vary...

"That's a joke, right? "

Not a joke. But to that point, Bev has gone on record as saying that diebold threw the election to the left to reduce awareness and has gone so far as to imply a conspiracy to elect the left to falsely prove her documentary as flawed. Of course, this is ridiculous.

"I've met quite a few who would disagree with you on that. "

Shame on them, then. America is not perfect, but we do try hard....


"You'll find that the more someone agrees with that statement, the more ignorant he is about the rest of the world. "

Nonsense!
America is a fantastic country with fantastic opportunity. I stand by that. My grandfather is living proof. He came here with a family, an 8th grade education, and no language skills. He was penniless. He retired a millionaire. Hard work and opportunity can result in wonderful things....
America provides the opportunity. Pretty great.

"You'll also find that almost everybody else on the planet disagrees with that "

that's funny. More people immigrate to this country, or try to immigrate to this country, than any other country in the world.

If they hate us so much, I say stop coming.... They don't. And they wont.

I haven't ignored the rest of your post, I've just run out of time and have to go.

I'll address the rest later.
Thanks for the interesting discussion!

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"Don't be a retard, if you know anything you know what I said is correct. Spare me the semantics."

You sound like a little 4 year old kid, covering your ears and yelling to yourself that you're right, even while you're being shown evidence to the contrary.

They're not semantics, Einstein, they're definitions. I'm right, you are wrong. I proved it to you by posting links. Yet you still have the nerve to call yourself an "information security" professional!

If you demonstrated your complete ineptitude coupled with your snotty-faced arrogance to an audience of your peers, you'd be laughed out of the room! You deserve to be publicly exposed and sued by your clients, who have quite obviously been taken in by your lies and ignorance. Their information is anything but secure, you fraud!

"Although you might try reading the definitions before you post links to them next time."

Well there you have it folks! A drooling idiot exposed to the light of truth, who is too arrogant and too stupid to understand basic computer definitions, yet has the gall to accuse others of doing the same!

Here are the definitions:

Virus:
A program or piece of code that is loaded onto your computer without your knowledge and runs against your wishes. Viruses can also replicate themselves.

Trojan horse:
A destructive program that masquerades as a benign application. Unlike viruses, Trojan horses do not replicate themselves but they can be just as destructive.

Here is your original moronic statement:

"Executable code that makes a system perform as it wasn't intended to is considered a virus."

I OWN your pimply butt, buddy, but you're too thick headed to realize it, just as you're too thick headed to realize Diebold are a pack of lying cheats who are stealing taxpayers' money and contributing to the theft of democracy. As long as there are people like you in power, your country will never be free.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

i have a headache.

IMHO, you should both kill yourselves.

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"i have a headache. IMHO, you should both kill yourselves."

ROFL!

I suppose the only thing "ikanileev" and I agree on is the bible quote:

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Oh, and these too:

"I agree that the voting system could use a major overhaul..."

"If you think my view of Americans is sad, try living in America. I know it's hard to think that any people would willingly vote a party that doesn't give a *beep* about anyone but the rich into power three elections in a row, but for a long time Bush had widespread support of this country. That's enough to make anyone sad."

--------------------

I'm Canadian. Certain corrupt jurisdictions here are using Diebold. So far elections conducted on them have been nothing but fiascos, so there's no immediate danger that we'll use them federally. They're probably on their way out altogether, even considering that they spent $5000 plus per machine! That's not going to stop myself and others from being vigilant. The stakes are WAY too high to have it any other way...

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[deleted]

BOB DOLE aka BOBBY DOLE. Is a great documentary about Bob Dole. Bob Dole was an American who ran for president but lost. Maybe Bob Dole got screwed by the miscounted votes. Bob Dole. Be sure to check out his documentary titled Bobe Dole.

PS: Bob Dole B-tches

My feet smells like *beep* Its becuase I stepped on dog poop.

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"why don't you stop commenting on the U.S.'s voting system and worry about the fact that your country will not even exist in less than a century."

That will be true if the fascist thugs that are running your country right now have there way. Does that make you happy?

"it makes me sick to my stomach to hear all you foreign pansies talk sh*t about the U.S. when you wouldn't even have a country if it weren't for us."

For us? What part in this did you play, exactly? You sound like quite a macho guy. Maybe you should join the army. You'll get to kill people. I bet you'd like that.

"why don't you go stand in line for some government funded substandard health care."

At least I have health care. Do you? If so, what do you pay for it? Are you sure your HMO will still be there for you 6 months into your cancer treatment? Because from what I've read, they have a nasty habit of dropping people who are "high risk".

"maybe if we're all lucky you'll need lifesaving surgery but have to wait 18 months to get it."

Are you hoping I die?

"or if that doesn't work for you you could just go play hockey or sodomize one of your cousins or whatever it is you backward hicks do for fun up there in the great white toilet."

Nice mouth, tough guy.

"have a great day."

Thank you! I will.

Buh-bye!

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"What can we do?"

DONT VOTE!

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I just watched this movie tonight. amazingly interesting and completely depressing.

I LOVE your post. funny and totally true... all 3 options suck. so.. I guess. try and forget what I saw in this movie. forget how terribly corrupt the USA is and all the evil things it stands for and does these days. Eat some chocolate watch some mindless tv and try and ignore the horrors of the real world going on daily around me.

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I just finished watching the program for a second time on HBO and thought I would check the IMDB board for reactions.

I have to say it was disappointing to see the all the divisive, partisan caterwauling posted.

Please, can we take all the Red vs. Blue out of this? It is a problem and it deserves a solution from either side of what appears to be becoming an "oh so comfortable" fence.

As an IT Project Manager I can say that clearly either the governments who contracted for these devices did not get what they paid for or what they paid for was a terribly inadequate system. Do I think this means we need to go back to paper ballots for the insurance we need?? Whoever in the world thinks those results were irrefutable?

There are plenty of systems out there that we trust to accurately count and track transactions that are secure. The system described in this documentary seems a couple of decades behind what any Fortune 100 company whose reputation was at stake would use - not because they are the heroes of any story but because they want to stay in business.

The Diebold boondoggle appears to be a situation where a faulty product was implemented because proper controls were not in place....and then everyone started the CYA lies. Could it be more than that? Could it be a conspiracy? I think it is not out of the question but in my experience lack of time, money and improper governance are the more likely culprits.

Conspiracy makes a much better story but my fear is after we wear each other out with all the we said/they said righteous indignation there will be no energy left to correct this before the next election.



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Yes, sadly, it's over. Democracy in America is a farce and yet the illusion of choice persists.

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tom-1674 is one of the most pretentcious pseudo-intellectual, left wing, anti-American idiots I have encountered here. Many of his facts are flat out wrong (I won't itemize, because it would take too long.)
In any event this nerd should stick to playing with computers and as a registered member here for over 6, maybe more, years, it gives me the greatest pleasure to add him (it?) as the first and only member of my ignore list.
Sin loy, crappolaboy

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