MovieChat Forums > Toki o kakeru shôjo (2006) Discussion > major plothole?

major plothole?

posted 14 years ago by blish-2
13 replies | jump to latest

When chiaki uses up his last time leap Makoto is also sent back in time. Yet she remembers the (almost) bike crash with the train. However when Makoto finally uses up her last time leap Chiaki doesn't remember a thing. How was makoto able to remember?

There is the option though that there's more to time leap that Chiaki knows about and he allowed for Makoto to remember the almost crash. Which also explains the time freeze that happens when he explains he's from the future. I loved the movie but I'm still unconvinced about this

[–] tallgeese106 14 years ago

I just finished watching this movie (such a good movie!) so I'll try and answer these while everything is still fresh in my mind.

How was makoto able to remember?

Well to start off when Chiaki prevented the bike crash (I assume he just time warped to right before Kousuke could take the bike and just moved it somewhere else) one of the first things he mentioned to Makoto was the fact that he used his last leap to prevent the accident. There's also the fact that Makoto knew from the text message from kousuke (even though I can't read japanese I assume part of it read I'm going to borrow your bike due to her actions) that the accident was going to happen and that memory would still be intact.

Now when makoto uses her last time leap she warps back to the exact point BEFORE she gains the power to time leap. So basically its like she never time leaped at all which is why Chiaki would have no clue about whats been going on.

So far the only questionable things I've seen would be the the time freeze situation and how at one point Chiaki somehow sensed that Makoto was time leaping and called her on it.

[–] fireinthewronghole 14 years ago

^ No, the TC is right. It is a plot hole. I've noted this in another topic. It makes no sense at all for Makoto to get her last leap back but for her to still retain the memory of it being used. They kind of go hand in hand. If Chiaki time leaped to the point before she used that last leap, she shouldn't have any memories of it whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I love the whole sequence of her making that last time leap to get Chiaki back, but her remembering making that last leap really does create a plot hole.

[–] Abbykat 14 years ago

The only possible explanation I can think of is that Chiaki stopping time for an extended interval to explain things to Makoto, instead of just doing an instant reset, muddied things enough for her to remember some of what transpired after the reset point. Note that she doesn't remember everything - Chiaki talks a little about Makoto crying hysterically on him after Kousuke and Kaho's accident and blaming herself for it, which from Makoto's perspective didn't happen.

"You always know where the X-Men have been, because it's always on fire."
- Pete Wisdom

[–] EndlessBob 14 years ago

You're overthinking the movie. Consider that every time she leapt back in time it was her future self reliving the moment. The most extreme example of this was when she kept revisiting the karaoke session and ended up spending 10 hours singing.

But where was her "then" self when she came back? If it were truly time travel there should have been one of her, then two, then three, etc., instead of there just being her reliving the session over and over.

So relax. It's a fantasy, not hard SF, and a wonderful story about finding out what's important in life. Don't try to collect all the loose threads, the movie just has too many of them -- and that's OK.

[–] fireinthewronghole 14 years ago

I do agree that the filmmakers clearly did not want the audience to focus on the more confusing aspects of the story (which is why they left the ending ambiguous as well), there's still nothing wrong with analyzing a movie. It's one of the things that I, along with a lot of other fans of other works, like doing--dissecting it, even noting at the flaws and still loving it despite of those things.

[–] EndlessBob 14 years ago

I totally agree. I just think that the time travel aspect is more of a mechanism to allow Makoto to look at her life from several perspectives than a serious treatment of the concept. Apparently Chiaki experienced the last pre-leap timeline for longer than Makoto did, since he was able to tell her that there was a girl (obviously her) at the scene of the accident sobbing that it was all her fault, while she only remembered it up to her screaming "Stop" (or was it "No"?).

Since she did retain her memories up to that point, we can only assume that Chiaki's leap was different in some way, and that it included Makoto as a fellow leaper. So her memories followed her back that time in the same way that her memories followed her back in all her previous leaps. Remember, in all her previous leaps she didn't relive her life completely again from the point she leapt to -- she stayed there just long enough to "correct" whatever she wanted, and then returned to the "present."

So there's really no plot hole at all -- it's just the discovery another aspect of leaping with more than one leaper in the immediate vicinity. Deus ex machina, if anything.

[–] jaycee_g17 14 years ago

i agree its a plot hole.

the tricky part that everybody is going crazy for is her remembering seeing that her leap remaining is 00 but doesn't remember accident. those two happened on both Makoto's last leap. its either she remembers both or not remember both to make sense

Either way. i like the movie

[–] GuineaPig 14 years ago

I think it is not a plot hole. When Makoto leaps she retains her memories. Chiaki is the same, when he time leaps he retains his memories but nobody else does. When Chiaki time leaps before the accident Makoto already had all the knowledge about time travel so even if she lost some memories between the accident and before it her knowledge would remain basically the same. When Makoto leaps before she can time travel Chiaki didn't have the knowledge about Makoto knowing about time travel so it makes perfect sense in the end.

This is not a signature!

[–] jaycee_g17 14 years ago

If chiaki leaps before the accident but after she used her last leap, it makes sense that she doesnt remember the accident but remember using her last leap. but the problem is the movies shows that chiaki leaps before makoto used her last leap(thats why it reset to 01) and before the accident happened. so why did she remember using her last leap but does not remember the accident.

Like i said, the closest explanation is EndlessBob's but still does not explain everything

[–] prushik 12 years ago

I wouldn't call it a "major" plot hole, its really rather minor, they could have cut out the conversation and removed the hole completely, but that would take away from the movie.

However, I have another possible explanation that changes quite a lot about how many people perceive the movie, but I have been thinking, and I think it makes sense. Here goes:
Because Chiaki AND Makoto were both capable of time travel, their time jumps affected each other, and Chiaki, was aware of most (if not, all) of Makoto's leaps. Notice that when Chiaki asked her out on the bike ride, no matter what Makoto did, she was not able to change it short of avoiding him completely, because Chiaki was aware that she jumped back to change it. Then right before the bike accident at the end, Chiaki asks Makoto if she is time leaping, but she panics and jumps back again and easily changed the conversation this time in contrast to the conversation before. At that point I think Chiaki already knew it was her, and he didn't ask the second time because he already got the answer he wanted. Which explains why Makoto can remember making the last time leap. It also changes the ending somewhat, as Chiaki was probably still aware that he has already asked Makoto out, and chose to refrain from repeating himself for whatever reason, just to be dramatic most likely, or something else, who knows.

Anyway, that's my take. Not what I originally thought when I watched the movie last night, just an idea that developed later. Originally I assumed he Chiaki jump to before Makoto used her last time leap but after the point where she jumped back to, which sounds plausible, but doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Whichever explanation is used, its still a great movie. Definitely the best anime film I've seen to date.
Tell me what you think.

[–] lollyhollydolly 11 years ago

Also, at the end of the movie when Chiaki says goodbye and walks away, doesn't Makoto see the two of them ride past on the bike when Chiaki was gonna tell her he had a crush on her? That's the only time she sees a past version of herself? Or was she just imagining that? :L

[–] voyagerandsouthpark 14 years ago

I agree. It doesn't make sense. What should have happened is the accident happens and she blames herself, then Chiaki time leaps to the past to prevent the accident and steals her bike. Then time goes to before the accident, then Makoto (in the past) has no memory of what will happen and still tries to stop the accident, but they don't pass her, because this time around the bike has been taken by Chiaki. She also doesn't get a phone call because Chiaki is riding her bike. Then Chaiki arrives and explains what he did and who he is to Makoto.

She shouldn't remember using her last time-leap cause it never happened due to the fact Chiaki time-leaped to prevent it.

"sir, sir, i gotta check and see if you've soiled yourself, I'll get to you in a moment, sir!"

[–] silverred999 9 years ago

The leaps are within a narrative. She can remember every leap and the reactions it caused because the memory is withing the timeleaptime. Timeleap time cannot change. It is impossible fir her to lose her memory because she is within her own memory continuum. It is like schrødingers cat. She forces a reality but the information cannot be changed. Her future is unknown because she ia a projection, but thisis a linear narrative within timeleap time.BASED on her experience. Chiaki cannot lose his memory either, but only from his own perspective. She is the same but he is not. Except he is but only if we see it through his eyes and pov