MovieChat Forums > Se, jie (2007) Discussion > A MUCH BETTER EXPLANATION OF THIS FILM *...

A MUCH BETTER EXPLANATION OF THIS FILM **SPOILERS**


Don't listen to normalemail's review in any way.

The sex was intimate. Obviously the first one was not so: Yee wanted to possess, Wang wanted to seduce. Hence, even after the rape, Wang smiled because she knew she was getting closer. Yee as yet did not feel anything for Wang besides lust, and he wanted to possess her sexually.

Gradually though, you see Yee display a sort of humanity. He really does begin to care for Wang, and Wang for Yee. Their initial motivations are gradually sublimated to their genuine feeling for each other, which is what makes it so hard on Wang. I think the turning point came when the group leader and the older man who gave Wang the pill are talking in the dingy hotel room, and the old guy wants Wang to keep on seeing Yee. Wang has a semi-breakdown demanding the old man to send people in and kill Yee, because as she says "he is worming into my heart." I think that this is the point (and a little afterward when the group leader finally kissed her) Wang began to realize that she may no longer commit to killing Yee.

The sex scenes become gradually more intimate. In the second, Yee is still batting her around a bit, and his face is as yet almost completely emotionless. But by the last scene, he moves around, he screams. He really cares for her, and the car scene where normalemails says Yee is "telling her how he just torture a couple of rebels while feeling her up which lead to the 2nd sex scene" is not that at all. He was responding to Wang's demand that he have her wait inside--it was his way of saying "what I do is full of pain--you should stay away from it." He wanted her to stay clean and beautiful, so that when he is with her he could move away from the difficulty of his work for a while.

Wang was feeling conflicted because the rebel group where she was supposed to be "safe" and be herself was demanding too much of her without really understanding how she felt. The other group members were more or less only concerned about themselves--watch the guy who complains that is father is demanding how he is using the money, and the other girl who displays some jealousy when the group leader seems to get close to Wang. And, of course, that truly awkward sex scene when that group member comes and has sex with Wang so she can "get experience." He was just uncomfortable with himself, though he did want to have sex with her. (If he had thought about her feelings at all, he would have done his best to make her feel comfortable and less bad about what she was doing.) And finally, the crazy old man who lost his wife to Yee just cares about revenge, not really about Wang in any way whatsoever.

But on the other hand, Yee was showing her compassion. Obviously the sex meant they got closer quite a bit, but besides that he cries when she sings for him, and in the end, he buys her the ring. And the clincher--when the group leader finally had the balls to kiss her, it was too little too late. He had asked too much of her, and he had never acted on his genuine compassion for Wang at any time in the past. Wang was feeling for Yee, and when this man/boy who she had once admired finally came to kiss her, she realized that she no longer admired him at all. He had been weak, too weak to show his feelings for her, too weak to stand up for her pain when she was feeling most conflicted.

And so, at the end, when Wang makes the call, she's fulfilling the role that she had sacrificed for and cried for for years, but when she's done... is that what she really wanted to do? Could she really betray the man she had come to love? And she finds she cannot. The final scene with Wang, when she's about to be shot, shows resignation. She accepts what she's done.

And Yee at the end is truly hurt that Wang has betrayed him. There was no way he could have saved her... what would his superiors say? She exposed herself as a traitor, and there is no other way he deals with traitors than to kill them. (I do admit that he was being cold-hearted, but that's Mr. Yee for you) But he's conflicted about his decision as well--he doesn't want to face her and question her and he questions his resolve to kill her if they come face-to-face. And though he signs their death order, when the man returns the diamond ring, Yee states that it is not his, and unsaid, that it is hers. If he really didn't give a damn, he'd take the diamond ring without a quibble because it's worth a lot of money.

And lastly, "Se, Jie" doesn't actually mean "Lust, Caution." "Se" is actually "color," which in this context means sex, exoticism, and seduction. "Jie" does mean cautious to an extent, but it's also playing on the word "Jiezhi," which means ring.

So HERE is the explanation of the latter half of the movie. I haven't covered all of Wang's motivations for joining the group, nor her father's abandonment of her, or any of the Mahjong scenes. And, of course, there is a great deal of subtle emotions parading around that I haven't detailed. But, this is the bulk of the movie, and obviously you can see that it is much deeper than you might have thought.

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"Don't listen to normalemail's review in any way."

It's late and i'm tired and because of that will not give a detailed response at this time. I know for that reason I should hold off posting.

I'll just say this, after reading the two summaries, both make some valid points while at the same time making things more complex than they actually are. Normalemails is however (imo) more accurate in his summation of the personalities and relationships of the characters. Plain and simply they are traitors who gave in to lust and greed with dire consequences. The reasons of which only they could answer. Traitors are spineless, self-serving cowards and are devoid of feelings for anything or anyone but themselves. This is fact. One needs only to look at his misdeeds against his own people to see this. As for the woman, just a traitor, nothing more, nothing less. As I said, only she could tell you the reasons why. As for her comrades, they are noble patriots fighting for a worthy cause, just like I would do if my country was invaded.

Best,

mea-12

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spot on darth. i don't understand how people are missing all of this. beautiful movie, wonderfully done (though i admit i would have been embarrassed to have seen it in a theater, not for watching it but because the sex was so graphic) perfect ending, loved it.

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Though I don't agree with the fact that you are telling people to ignore other's opinions (since this is a movie it is open to different interpretation) I whole heartedly agree with your assessment. I was totally thinking the same thing. Of course I am used to see a meaning behind everything. My high school english teacher made sure to drill into our head that everything has a meaning and nothing is there just for fun.

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normalemail' explainaiton is interesting to read but I don't agree upon. Its too simplied and seem to make it sound poetic romantic.

I prefer your explination.

Personally I HATE Kuang Yu Min ( the rebellion leader ). He liked her but so what? still drag her into the mess, which ruined her life. They were so called friends were planing on sacrifising her at the very beginning. If he truely loved her like normalemail suggested then he wouldn't do that. Especially after the whole ordeal, after 3 years when they met again he suggested her to resume the plan.

And doesn't have the guts to stand up for her in front of his suprior. Empty promises that he'll keep her safe, blah blah.




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Although I don't hate Kuang Yu Min, he definitely was willing to sacrifice her. If he was truly protective of her, he would have insisted to the group of friends that they kill Yee right away. Kuang Yu Min is the opposite of the character he plays in the patriotic play where he goes to war to protect Wong Chia Chi's character. (And I like how the play parallels real life in that Wong Chia Chi's brother is in England and effectively dead to her).

And thanks to DarthJerkyll for telling us about the meaning behind the title. I was wondering about the translation.

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I watched the movie a 2nd time, and it was easier to understand the plot. The reason Kuang Yu Min was so focused on vengeance was that his brother was killed in the war and his parents forbade him from becoming a soldier. Also near the beginning of the movie, Wong Chia Chi and her girlfriends watch the young soldiers marching off to war. Her friend says that there won't be any young men left for them. And it's true. The reason why Hollywood movies during the '40s often featured a older male hero is that most of the young actors had gone off to war. Then it was easy for me to understand why Kuang Yu Min didn't romanced Wong Chia Chi earlier; he was too focused on doing his part for the Resistance. And Wong Chia Chi partly falls for Mr. Yee because there aren't any younger men around to pay attention to her.

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The one thing about the ring that I thought of, was that by denying the ring was his (how would the assistant know); it was a way to disassociate himself from Wang and the plotters. If she was just someone he 'used,' it would look better for him than if he were truly emotionally involved.

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I saw it differently. Yee said the ring wasn't his (the assistant probably did realize Yee had given it to Wang because he knew about their relationship) because he had given it to Wang, it was now hers. The assistant brought it back because he thought Yee would've been like "Why did I spend all that money on that treacherous whore?" but since he really did love her, Yee was far more distressed about Wang's impending execution than his money or reputation.

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i saw it that way too. he definitely was very distressed and conflicted about his decision to have her executed. he did not want it to end this way. he knew she saved his life by warning him herself and exposing herself as a traitor in turn.

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i really like this interpretation :)

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It's a good explanation.

As far as the ring goes, let's not forget that he had already given one to another of his lovers, and she knew it. When she was offered the same diamond, she refused it and picked the one his wife wanted, but he had refused her claiming it was too big. She made a point to see if he 'really' loved HER above all women.

When she notices that he didn't get upset with her at all, on the contrary, he was proud and happy to see the huge diamond in her hand, she realizes that she finally got to his heart - and THAT changed everything.

Earlier on she had explained that he only felt anything by causing pain to others, but she accepted it in order to get into his heart. When she realizes that he gave her everything - including the diamond he refused his own wife - she realized she won. Moreover: remember that her father abandoned her, her aunt took everything she had and the boy she loved was a coward, so in the end Mr Lee was the only one who really loved HER, albeit in a odd way. When she realizes it, she can't get through with the mission.

So it wasn't the ring per se, but what it symbolized.

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When she notices that he didn't get upset with her at all, on the contrary, he was proud and happy to see the huge diamond in her hand, she realizes that she finally got to his heart - and THAT changed everything.
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Excellent insight

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I have read the comments and a lot of people are still asking the reason on why Wong Chia Chi/Mak Tai Tai did it the end of the film.It was apparent that many did not understand the reasons of her actions at the end. People may find it weird or disgusting BUT it apparently has to do with the psychological make-up of Mak.

First of all,we have to realize that Mak isn't a professional spy.She is a naive college student whose view of the world is not within the context of the people that she deals with when socializing with the Japanese collaborators while doing her work for the resistance.Also,it was clear in the film that she lacks a father figure as her dad left for England and got remarried while her mother died when she was very young. She found a father figure in Mr. Yee. Aside from that,Mak lacks experience in intimacy which can deepen a relationship with certain individuals. Mr.Yee was able to provide this to her through passionate (and rough) sex. That is why the sex scenes were important to demonstrate this to the audience. Finally,she was drawn to Mr Yee due to the latter's charm - a characteristic of people who rise to political ranks and find success in dealing with others in the government despite their actions of cruelties towards their countrymen. I believe that even the likes of Hitler and Stalin did possess charm and charisma to have become successful leaders and were effective in leading their people in doing evil deeds towards humanity.

In the end,Mak sufferred from Stockholm Syndrome which made her save Mr Yee at the end of the film. IT WAS NOT BECAUSE OF HER BEING A WOMAN BUT DUE TO HER PSYCHOLOGICAL MAKE-UP AS A WOMAN.

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I really like everything about this comment. I appreciate the thought and detail you included to write it.

Another comment further up which says,

Personally I HATE Kuang Yu Min ( the rebellion leader ). He liked her but so what? still drag her into the mess, which ruined her life. They were so called friends were planing on sacrifising her at the very beginning.
also has me thinking about Wong's relationship with love and men, and the ring in particular.

Kuang was too blinded by the cause and his own brother's death (the reason that he could not be more proactive in the war by becoming a soldier). He really liked Wong, but he wanted to fight the war through the resistance because it was the only way that he could actively be involved. Wong joins his cause because she also has feelings for him. She is interested in him up until their friend "teaches" her how to have sex. It is at this point that she realizes she is just a pawn in their plan. They make the decisions, she follows orders.

This comes up again three years later when she is being sexually abused by Yee. She says that she bleeds every time, but she doesn't hate him. On the contrary, she is starting to develop feelings for him. I am unclear about how she starts to develop feelings for him. I think this was the least believable part of the movie for me. I didn't buy it, although I had to buy it in order to accept the rest of the movie. Whatever, that's on me.

Wong tells the commander dude and Kuang that she is being abused sexually and neither of them really cares enough to save her, because she is a pawn. Kuang kisses her because he realizes the pain that he alone has put her through. He feels terrible because he really does have feelings for her, but the mission is more important.

As for the ring and Wong's betrayal, I did not believe that she betrayed her friends because of the ring itself. Your comment has changed my mind of that. There is a lot of symbolism in the ring, I see that now. But what was important to me as a viewer was when Wong said she wanted to put the ring away to keep it safe on the street and Yee says, "Why? You're with me." I think he may have said something like "You're protected when I'm around" (paraphrasing) and she realizes that he is the first man to ever actively protect her. Kuang was spineless. Her father abandoned her. With Yee she literally had nothing to worry about, she was completely safe because he loved her. After realizing this she felt that she HAD to save him.

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Somewhere I read that the amethyst is a symbol for a girl named Chia-Chi. Perhaps Wong Chia-Chi felt that receiving the amethyst-colored diamond was like being brought back to herself, or being able to show herself at last.

(I'm not with my copy of the novella at the moment, but seem to recall that Eileen Chang described the stone as a different color. It stood out because the adapted script changes relatively little.)


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"It was her, you see --a divided heart."
--Lawrence Jacoby, Twin Peaks.

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