MovieChat Forums > Se, jie (2007) Discussion > Perception about Asian male's sex appeal

Perception about Asian male's sex appeal


I am raising this subject for the sake of a rational discussion about the perception of Asian male's sex appeal.

Probably no one would dispute that Tony Leung's bold performance in the sex scenes in LC sets a precendent that for the first time an Asian male actor is portrayed as a hot-blooded sexaul being on the big screen. A few posters remark how hot Tony Leung looks. One cannot help but wonder if it would help to change the perception about the sexual image of Asian male in general, and in movies and TV in particular. Let's face it. Here in the U.S., if you ask anyone to quickly come up with a few adjectives to describe an Asain woman, most likely these would be the words: sensual, beautiful, mysterous, delicate, smart, etc.--mostly words implying pretty positive sexual connotation. Ask the same question about an Asian man, what would most people conjure up? Most likely: nerdy, wonkish, awkward, asexual, etc. Why? My theory is that the way Asian male and female is portrayed in the mass media is drastically different.

I just want to start this thread to provoke some discussion. Anyone with an opinion, please chime in.

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In Ang Lee's 'crouching tiger hidden dragon', both actor/actress are sexy to me. so does in LC.

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To zenbutt: Chow Yun-Fat might appear sexy to you, but in CTHD he is not portrayed as a sexual being--not even an inch of his flesh was shown. In fact, his feelings/desire toward Michelle Yeoh are repressed in CTHD. One can argue that it takes an Asian director, Ang Lee, to present an Asian male character Mr. Yee as sexual in LC. None of the major Hollywood studios or any prime time TV programs has ever presented an Asian actor in a sexual image. It's the same in print media. I have never seen an Asian male model in a sexual/sexy image in a magazine spread (has anyone seen an Asian model in CK underwear ad?) My point is: the entertainment/fashion industry in the US has never made any effort to present Asian male's sex appeal. On the contrary, I think the lack of any effort by them has contributed to perpetuate the asexual/nerdy image of Asian male in public's mind.

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To Chinesehorse
I get your point now.
Just as takethat-1 said in the "How to make money for possible later wild release" thread, " The Focus needs to immediately reposition the movie from "an erotic thriller" to "an epic World War II espionage drama".

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[deleted]

I can imagine that the perception of Asian men in the US would be what you describe all right- US movies certainly never depict an Asian man as attractive. I've always found Tony Leung hot, though

Ob Mailand oder Madrid, Hauptsache Italien.

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I agree Tony Leung looks both stylish and hot - though actually he projected sensuality already in Chungking Express and looked incredibly chic in In the Mood for Love (somebody remarked that "nobody in current films looks better taking a smoke than Tony Leung"). It would be interesting if some East Asian actor of his stature and appeal would play, like, the next James Bond villain.

"Lust, Caution" though, doesn't mainly bang the fast entertainment spots, it's a rather thoughtful and slow movie, and requires constant atention. So I don't think it will break Leung as a hot-blooded hero in America. His acting is understated (as always) and so is Wei Tang's. I loved it, but it's not a very accessible film if it's billed as a hot spy drama.

"Richelieu's men are notorious for their complete lack of taste."

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"nobody in current films looks better taking a smoke than Tony Leung"


This phrase came to my mind last night, while watching the final scene in Days of Being Wild, and now it's stuck, but I can't seem to find the origins of it.

Probably a paraphrase by Strausszek, so Google doesn't help.

Amazing thread with a handful of great points, bdw.

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Quote...."point is: the entertainment/fashion industry in the US has never made any effort to present Asian male's sex appeal. On the contrary, I think the lack of any effort by them has contributed to perpetuate the asexual/nerdy image of Asian male in public's mind."


It's unfortunate that William Hung was once promoted as the ideal asian male sex symbol.

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Asians in general are mystified sexually. Yes the women are desired, but only either as a quiet ultra-shy ultra-virgin doll, or a sexy fiery dragon lady (who would ultimately submit, of course). Ziyi Zhang is seen as a combination of these two things, from what I hear from my straight male friends.
The same with gay guys and lesbians. Non-Asians simply don't see the possibility of an Asian lesbian. And Asian gay guys are dollified just like Asian women.
(M. Butterfly, the original play, really poked this quite sharply).

Straight Asians guys get the worst though. I would say, yes, Asian culture traditionally is quite repressive sexually for both men and women. The fact repressed "ultra virgin" Asian female stereotype gets a fetish reputation, while repressed Asian males are scorned, really has to do the general gender stereotypes/roles.
However, some (maybe a small number) non-Asian women (I do know quite a few) fetishize Asian men, as the ultimate gentle, clean, learned, caring, never cheat-on-you type (got all the wonderful traits of a stereotypical gay guy but straight). But not sexy.

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Interesting that you mentioned Asian gay and lesbian roles in movies. In this regard, I think Chinese filmmakers have done a fair job in presenting Asians as sexual beings in these roles: "Saving Face" is an indie film about a Chinese lesbian daughter (Joan Chen plays the mother), Ang Lee's "Wedding Banquet" is about a gay Chinese son, "Happy Together" (Tony Leung and Leslie Cheung), to name a few. All the movies above have shown Asians as sexual beings in flesh. But that is not the case in movies made by western filmmakers, and I agree that straight Asian males are hardly ever portrayed as sexual in American movies.

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Oh, one more thing: prior to LC, another movie that stuck in my mind with an Asian male actor in very explicit sex scene is "The Lover" (French title: L'Amant). Interestingly, the male actor is also a Tony Ka Fai Leung from Hong Kong. At the time I saw the movie years ago, I remembered thinking "God! This is the first time I see an Asian male portrayed as a sex animal in a Western movie!"

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one film critic (forgot which one) named Jean-Jacque Annaud's "the lover" as one of the best movies ever made in the last 25 years. I agreed.

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This is a great topic. I've always had a hard time fantasizing about Asian men. Undoubtedly due to not seeing them as ferocious sexual beings. When I started watching films, usually from Hong Kong or Japan, that showed Asian men engaged in sexual acts, I began to be turned on by them. LUST, CAUTION is the ultimate in breaking down this barrier. It shows Leung being forceful, tender, and always passionate in the three sex scenes. I think that many women in the US who see LUST, CAUTION are very turned on by him. As a gay man I know I am.

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Asian culture in general and Chinese culture particularly is very sexually repressed. Sexually repressed and inexperienced women are desired in Western sexist culture, but sexually repressed and inexperienced men are not. That has a lot to do why Asian men's sex appeal has been lacking.

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I think asian males had their shot with Bruce Lee.

Martial arts, native american/asian Mani in a French film called "Brotherhood of the Wolf" had mysterious, strong, and sexual qualities.

Don't hurt yourself over this horse. Every race has a certain stereotype associated with them. For the most part being called smart, studious, and a karate master isn't too bad... If it weren't for that small pecker thing, you guyz would be golden..


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Bruce Lee's wife wasn't even pretty at all, blergggg

But in reality we Asians put in 3 times the study effort just to be as good as you white dudes, as evidenced the the Nobel prize winners (99% are whites).
Have you ever been to the library lately? Good luck asking us Asian guys to vacate a seat for you!

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Be careful with using statistics, Another statistic shows just the opposite (there are too many to list). You don't know how the Nobel Prize is conducted, the committee or judges may favor whites over asians. And/or what they perceive to be excellent or brilliant may be different to what asians or others' perception of what is excellent and brilliant.

Interesting comment about chivalry there, my experience has been the opposite.

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oh yeah. that movie was so sad. because they were so mean to the azn lovur and the girl said it was because he's a chineseman. hahah.... :(

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From my perspective, most Oriental women are fetishised as ultra-young, cutesy, delicate child-like damsels by Western men, but sometimes also by native society (i.e. "The Twins" in Hong Kong, young adults that act and look like toddlers)
Heck, isn't it near paedophilia in Japan? with the schoolgirl craze? (I'm not sure, correct me if I'm wrong.)

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"It's as Ann as the nose on plain's face."
I <3 AD

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Excuse me, Ms. RitaFairbanks, there are Oriental rug, Oriental vase, Oriental funrniture, but, er, since there is no such thing as Occidental women, do you think you can bring yourself to the 21st century and get rid of that racist term?

I thought my initial topic was about the perception of Asian male's sex appeal in movies/TV. Perhaps you can start your own thread on the "Oriental women's" stereotype???

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"Oriental" means the American meaning of "Asian" (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc.) in the UK.
"Asian" means "South Asian" (Indian/Bangladesh/Pakistani/etc.)

I was speaking in British English terminology, not American.
In American terms, "Asian" means Chinese/Japanese/Korean, but in England, it means Indian/Bangladesh/etc. Sorry for the confusion.

In reality, "Asian" is a continent, which encompasses all colours, Chinese people, Indian people, Russian people, etc. - so none of us are "right" (geographically speaking) though I should have stuck with the original OP's terminology of "Asian" instead of using nonAmerican terms for Chinese/Japanese/etc people.

To inform you of haha, real English:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Asian>;
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Oriental>;


Again, it's my mistake, I shouldn't have caused misunderstanding.

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"It's as Ann as the nose on plain's face."
I <3 AD

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Yeah, I personally never really understood why the term "Oriental" is deemed racist nowadays.

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It was deemed officially racist not too long ago. You don't understand because you don't understand the context of when it was first said and used to label Asians. Oriental is the opposite of the word occidental, which means people coming from the west. Because white people have claimed to be from the "west", they refer to anyone from the east as oriental. But this is a very eurocentric perspective because the meaning and usage would be different when it's said from the east. To Asians then, white people become "orientals" while they are occidentals.

Those links to British definitions are nothing but racist definitons that only ignorant people still cling on to as reality.

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I learn a new thing today. :)

But, I still think you guys are overreacting to the term. Ms_RitaFairbanks meant no harm.

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me, too.

i'm chinese, and even knowing about the whole 'western world exploits exotic asia' thing, i always thought the word 'oriental' was pretty, with good connotations, until i came across posters on various imdb boards that were very offended by the term. then i wondered if i should be, too.

but really? most people who say it wouldn't even know some asians consider it racist. so go easy on them, please. :D

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Haha. I'm chinese too. And like you, I also always thought the word 'oriental' sound nice. Only when I read this thread did I know that this word is supposed to be racist and offensive.

I don't think I would be offended about being called oriental even after knowing the word's origin now. The person who use the word most probably is as clueless as I used to be. :D

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Since Oriental is the opposite of the word occidental, what's particularly racist about it? Is it any more racist to call an easterner "oriental" than to call a westerner "occidental"? If they were truly "eurocentric", why would the Europeans place themselves in the "West"? Wouldn't they think of themselves as being in the "Middle"? Like the word Zhongguo? The word Asia also has eurocentric meanings, it was a greek word that was used to describe present day middle east, not what one would think of today. Many words or phrases in English that are in use today are truly what one would call eurocentric, like "middle east", but for some reason some of us prefer to target the word oriental only, even going so far as to accuse another country's definition of a word of being racist in general.

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And when was the last time you saw "Occidental" in the media? If Occidental isn't a commonly-used term, why should Oriental be?

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Yes, but is "Asian American" really an appropriate term for Chinese, Korean, Japanese etc.? Asia technically encompasses ethnicities of all of Asia like Indians, Arabs and Persians and many others, why should the term Asia refer only to Orientals? My point is all words have less than definite meanings and connotations, no one word literally describes exactly what it's intended to mean. So why split hairs? Nobody so far has explained exactly why the word oriental is inherently racist. It literally means "Eastern". The term in romance languages like French reflects this fact. Is it racist to call Germans from the former DGR territories "East Germans"? or how about East Brunswick? or East Coast? It seems funny to me that actual Chinese people, like myself and others on this board, clearly aren't offended by it or aren't aware that it was supposed to be a "maliciously harmful and racist" term. Seems to me the only people who obsess over it are non-Asian north americans political correctness Polizei that obviously have too much time on their hands. It's about time they realize that Americans DIDN't invent English, the English did. So how about leaving the Brits and their own British English alone? Huangdi bu ji Taijian ji...

There might or might not be a frequent use of Occidental in British media, so what of it? Must everything be perfectly symmetrical? Usage of words develop over time naturally. If a name stuck and is used by people, then it's the correct form. If a word is no longer in popular use, but is not intended to offend, then I don't see anything wrong with it. If Mongoloid East Asians are called "Asian Americans" in the US and effectively refers to that group of people, then that's fine. Just so it happens they have a different term for that population in Britain, what's the problem? When's the last time some stuffy British guy tried to correct American English?

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This is from the Oxford American dictionary

"USAGE- The term Oriental, denoting a person from the Far East, is regarded as offensive by many Asians, esp. Asian Americans. It has many associations with European imperialism in Asia. Therefore, it has an out-of-date feel and tends to be associated with a rather offensive stereotype of the people and their customs as inscrutable and exotic. Asian and more specific terms such as East Asian, Chinese, and Japanese are preferred."

true...innit?

But you know what? we chinese people have pretty racist terms for white people...terms like Ang Mo which means "red-haired (devil)" or Gweilo meaning "ghost man" or "foreign devil". And these are common terms used freely and unashamedly as well!

anyways....isn't this post suppose to be about "perception about asian male's sex appeal"

Asian men are hot. period.

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Being Chinese myself, when people refers to us as 'Asian' it feels kind of dirty, I think it's because the word 'Asian' has built up many negative connotations with it, such as the world 'Muslim', due the way most people belonging to that group have committed many crimes.

On the other hand, the word 'Oriental' feels kind of 'classy' and 'distinguished'. I believe the original association of that word has lost it's meaning, as society has progressed. It's like the word 'gay'... fifty years ago it's definition means 'happiness'. Today it's associated with homosexuality. Time has moved on.

Our Chinese terms for white people are not that degrading at all and it tends to be a back handed compliment. and I'm pretty sure most white people would take it as a compliment.

Imagine this scenario: A white dude and his oriental wife are having sex, and he becomes 'rough' with her.. she says "ahhh, be gentle you red-head devil!' He then laughs. IMO, Hahaha she's saying he's a brute, which means physically powerful man.

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I don't think 'Asian' feels dirty at all, in fact it is probably the most politically correct term to refer to an east asian or south east asian.

"...'Asian' has built up many negative connotations with it, such as the world 'Muslim', due the way most people belonging to that group have committed many crimes."

huh?? there are Islamic terrorists and regimes...yes. But saying that most muslims have committed many crimes? err...isn't that kinda racist?

And your scenario, if every european/white male were red-headed then maybe your scenario might have justified the term "red-head devil".

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"Non-Asians simply don't see the possibility of an Asian lesbian. And Asian gay guys are dollified just like Asian women. "

That's deep.

Perhaps Non-Asians (specifically non-asian men, right?) don't see the possiblity of an Asian lesbian, because lesbians have a bit of masculinity to them... and asian women, as the 'ultimate feminine race', cannot be allowed any masculinity. They have the reverse problem of black women.

Asian men are sexy and masculine, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them. However, Asian men have to buck up against western white (anglo/jewish) ideals of masculinity. Whatever masculinity the Asian male has, has to be castrated from him. The Asian male's sexual competitor threat has to be neutralized. In this world, where black men are turned into non-human animals (all sex, no humanity) in order to neutralize them, Asian men are turned into eunuchs (no sex, no humanity) in order to neutralize then.

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[deleted]

However, some (maybe a small number) non-Asian women (I do know quite a few) fetishize Asian men, as the ultimate gentle, clean, learned, caring, never cheat-on-you type (got all the wonderful traits of a stereotypical gay guy but straight). But not sexy.


I'm non-Asian and usually get hit on or asked out by Asian males. I've dated a few Asian guys in high school & my current boyfriend is half-Japanese. Asian guys do tend to be VERY good boyfriends - gentle, caring, thoughtful, faithful, and sensitive - not aggressive in their pursuit, polite, and crazy in bed. There are some that are simply AWFUL though !!! I dated a couple that were simply *cough* 'psychotic', oversensitive, paranoid freaks, but i'm sure you can find that in any race... right? .

(got all the wonderful traits of a stereotypical gay guy but straight). But not sexy.


NOT SEXY??? tell me this guy isn't sexy http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m66/xXFatally_GorgeousXx/for%20mysp ace/2_takeshi_kaneshiro_55.jpg There are tons more i find sexy - especially my boyfriend and tons of girls look at him in awe at how good looking he is.



i love me

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All I know is that my sistahs friends...are into 'tall' Asian men now. But the negative image of the Asian male is there meaning in the US but it is changing fairly quickly. I am black and I find Asian men sexy especially the ones that have a darker tone skin.

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It is indeed bemusing that so much is being made of Tony Leung's sex scenes in Lust, Caution when barely a decade earlier, the other Tony Leung (Leung Ka Fai) had already heated up the screen with his no less sexy scenes in the French film, The Lover.
Anyway, there is nothing racist in the term Oriental, which is actually flattering because the word orient is synonymous with the term "original bearings". It is to me a more flattering reference than Asian, which can include the South Asians and the Stanis.
For that matter, if i were a Negro, i would prefer to be called that than to be refered to as black, because Negro means black but sounds classier and less demeaning.
Just my personal view.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Actually, I'd rather not even label people by race.
Because I share common skin colour or facial characteristics with certain groups of people, I don't want to be lumped into them, I don't have to share their culture because of what I look like. I firmly object to the idea of race, it's all nationalistic hogwash, I really really doubt there's much genetic difference between a "Japanese" and a "Chinese" or a person from Nigeria, Siberia, really. I might as well say I'm African, everybody came from Africa evolution-wise. I do not believe at all in the concept of race, ethnic groups, gender (not sex,) everything where a person's culture, lifestyle, identity is said to be determined by, or implied to be determined by, innate biology - but somehow, using definitions made up by society! and with nearly zero scientific backing! But that's off topic, isn't it?

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"It's a bit weird though, innit?"
- Karl Pilkington

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Since I'm guessing you're neither "Oriental" nor "Black", you have no vote in what these people should be called. The rule should be "respect", respecting other people's wishes how they should be called.

"Oriental" is a very out-dated and Euro-centric term - look at a globe - that dates back to the European imperialism age. I'm not surprised that Brits are still clinging to the term. For people outside of the "British Empire" of yesterday, it's offensive because the history of the term. "Asian" is neutral since it can be used for all people from the continent, just like Europeans or Americans. Why should Asians be called differently, comparing with people from other continents?

Chinese used to call all non-Chinese "Barbarians" (because of the perceived backwardness of any non-Chinese civilizations) or "Foreign Ghosts" (because of the pale complexion of the foreigners). Should we keep these terms as well becaue some of us find them more descriptive?

BTW, the correct term is not "Black". It's African or African American.

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Good point, Jassy.
Though, I could see it as objectionable as saying "Mrs."
"Oriental" is Eurocentric, why don't we use "Occidental?"
"Mrs." is patriarchal, why don't we use a similar term for married men?

Both are outdated, both are still used in many societies. Why should one be called racist if the other isn't called sexist? They're remnants of older times, still society doesn't view either of them offensive. Good on you for being progressive, but I think terms like these must fall out of fashion, out of respect you can't outright call it racist as much as I can't go up to some lady and tell her to drop the "Mrs" and call herself "Ms." The "Oriental" Brits themselves are fine with the term, that's how they wish to be called, according to your argument, how can you say what those people should be called? You're not British.

Anyway, "Asian" is just the same as "Black" to me. "Asian" is supposed to mean "your ancestors came from Asia." But how far do you go back? "Asians" are eventually "African."
You're actually only looking at a person's face and saying, "He looks like the rest of those people." It isn't any more technical or sensitive to say he's "Asian-looking" than he's "Yellow."
From my perspective, "Asian" is as racist epithet as any. See? Depending on world views, different things seem racist.

No one really thinks about etymology and word history, it's linguistic trends in society, mate, respectfully tell people your objections.

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"It's a bit weird though, innit?"
- Karl Pilkington

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You just don't get it, do you?

Your appalling arrogance is what is "racist" about you using the term. *Many* have tried to stop you throwing it around, yet you persist.

No, you can't go up to some woman and tell HER to stop using "Mrs." when referring to HERSELF. However, she can come to YOU, and tell YOU to stop calling her "Ms.", against her wishes. The LATTER is what is happening here, not the former. Understood? The next time you do so, you have automatically crossed the line.

No one gives a rat's ass about YOUR perspective. No one cares whether you have developed the psychic powers to read the minds of 1,000,000 (or whatever number) of Asians living in Britain and now are the self-appointed expert on what they prefer to be called. The Asian poster has warned you to cease and desist throwing around your offensive term, and yet you persist.

YOU are the only one being disrespectful here, "mate".

Check yourself, before you wreck yourself.

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Please calm yourself, amalgam8. [to the rest of this discussion board, sorry this is taking so long to resolve! yikes!]

Okay, hello.
When you say "appalling arrogance," I fail to see where you see that. Do you imply that majority vote decides the correct side of this discussion? and so I shouldn't "persist?" I would think that'd be an example of "arrogance," wouldn't you?

I needn't have psychic powers. It's that it's commonly used in Britain, not in a derogatory sense; the BBC uses it, the Guardian uses it, respectable newspapers use it, there have been no cries of racism as far as I know, and the population of "Asians" is sizeable, as you yourself estimate.

NOW, remember, I don't, by saying that, mean to say the term is okay! For even so with the lack of general outcry, there really doesn't need to be popular disapproval of a term for you yourself to logically decide it's improper, or you in a different perspective (I care a "rat's ass" about your perspective! ) to think it's outdated and discriminatory.
I not only respect your view. I also think "Oriental" is a racist term. {*shock*} I however also think that all labels of race/ethnicity are racist BUT that in the event where we do label by race, "Oriental" is not particularly objectionable. Do you understand?

And looking at your response to my "Mrs." analogy:
The "latter" is not what is happening. I'd ask whether you have secret psychic powers to be able to say all "Asians" don't like the term "Oriental."
See, this is what it's like. The opinion of a few on this discussion thread, is that "Oriental" is a bad word for labelling Chinese/Japanese/etc. people. They think it's racist, insist that I stop.
That is the same as, a few people thinking "Mrs." is a sexist title. They think it's sexist, they insist that people stop.
I very well might be "Asian." Those people against "Mrs." very well might be married females. It doesn't mean that we're going to take the majority sides (of our respective arguments,) it's a bit intellectually tyrannical for you to think so.

I don't ask you to consider my individual perspective, I wanted you to try considering the variety of perspectives on racism, race, culture, multiculturalism, etc. It's a lot more complicated than "don't use that term, use this term."

P.S. How do you know that that poster was "Asian?" How do you know I'm not "Asian?"

P.S.S. Don't get angry, have a nice pleasant discussion. It's an IMDb board, for crying out loud!

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"It's a bit weird though, innit?"
- Karl Pilkington

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Hello yourself.

I am not "angry". I took calm offence to your "appalling arrogance". Here are sample arrogant statements you made, since you claim not to be aware when you are doing it:

------------------------------------------------------------
1. To inform you of haha, real English:
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2. They're remnants of older times, still society doesn't view either of them offensive.
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The first quote is particularly arrogant because you suddenly claim to speak for millions of innocent, non-hateful English people, such as my wife and children, who would be appalled and deeply offended if they found out what was being done in their name by you. The second quote is arrogant because suddenly you speak for "society"?

Incidentally, I just did a quick search for the statement "[your offensive term] people" on the BBC's website. As I expected, there were NO hits where any reputable BBC journalist has used the term. Yes, there are QUOTES, attributable to non-BBC (and therefore beyond their control) people. People probably much like you, whom the BBC have to interview from time to time. And yes, even those are few. Don't take my word for it, try this exercise yourself. There is really only 1 news article in the "education" section that shows up. It is of dubious origins, uncredited, and dates back to 1999.

Did you actually READ the Wikipedia links you provided in your own post to "support" your obstinate use of the word? Yes, the same Wikipedia link provided by faceless people on the internet who cannot be considered authorities on anything by any logical, reasoning person? Try READING what it says, especially where it explains WHY the term is hardly ever used. Look up the meaning of the word "redolent". Click the other links that are derived from the sentence (from your second link) that contains that word "redolent"...

I am not "angry". I tried to educate you initially. Now I feel sorry for you.

Finally, to answer your first PS question: His username was "chinesehorse", and he was offended by your post. Call it a "hunch"! To answer your second question, I think most people here *know*, from your stubborn refusal to admit wrongdoing, and your insistence on using the term in every post, despite everyone telling you how ignorant you look, that you are NOT Asian. :-)

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Isn't the Chinese word for Westerners "barbarian"?

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That's the Japanese word. Chinese word for Japanese is "Slanty"

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wow, i didn't understand some people are so sensitive.
i'm Chinese. i didn't understand why Oriental is offensive until i came to US.

but Asians always seem more general than Oriental.
i.e., Indians, Austrailian are Asians but not oriental. you know what i mean?

i'm ok with being called Asian or Oriental.

but i use "Asian" instead of oriental so others don't get offended by my "ignorance."

regards

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Australia doesn't belong to Asia. Australians are not Asians. They are Australians.

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"No one cares whether you have developed the psychic powers to read the minds of 1,000,000 (or whatever number) of Asians living in Britain"

1 million LOL? Are you discrimating against all the people from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan by exluding them from being Asian? You *beep* muppet.

Oriental is an accepted term here in the UK and nobody opposes it. You'd be surprised that every country in the world has a different culture and different traditions. America is NOT the world and thank God for that.

You obviously know very little about the UK. Who the hell do you think you are? You can't dictate to a whole nation. Stay in your PC-obsessed racist-obsessed nation and stop bastardising the beautiful language know as ENGLISH which belongs to the ENGLISH.

It seems that Oriental Americans are trying to claim a whole continent for themselves. I find it hilarious that a person referred to as Asian American doesn't realise that they are claiming to be the only ethnic group from TWO continents LOL.

Why not just use Asian Australasian European African American and be the only ethnicity on the planet?

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Where did anyone say ONLY Chinese, Koreans or Japanese can be called "Asians"? Anyone who originates from Asia can be called Asians and yes, that includes Indians, Pakistans as well as Chinese and Japanese.

Actually, it's the English people who do the exclusion, assigning Indians, Pakistans etc as the people from the whole Asian continent. Learn your geography. Asia is a continent that contains every countries from Japan to Israel and Iraq. So who gave Indians and Pakistanians exclusive right to the name "Asian"? The ignorant English people perhaps? And by the way, there are no TWO continents in the Asian landmass. The sub-continent where India is located belongs to Asia, just like the so-called Eastern Asia or Middle East.

To the Chinese poster from UK, if you want to be associated with a term from the old imperialist era, fine. Don't tell all others Chinese, Japanese or Koreans how they shouldn't object to the term. We object to it for the historical origin of the term. If Brits want to bury their collectively heads in the sand and pretend today's world map is still the same one they drew up in the 19th century, you can bury your head in the sand with them. The rest of the world, specifically, Asians in the US and Asia have moved on. We have every right to determine how WE should be called, in whatever language it is.


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Are you discrimating against all the people from India, Bangladesh, Pakistan by exluding them from being Asian? You *beep* muppet.

No. I am not. However, it appears you, ironically, seek to exclude Chinese, Japanese and Korean people from the Asian continent. You *beep* troglodyte

You obviously know very little about the UK.
From the rampant ignorance of your post, what is quite obvious is that I know a great deal more about the UK than you do. I was raised in the UK, and lived there for over a decade. I married a UK Citizen, and my children are proud dual American and British Citizens. And search for my post above, which proves that I know who/what is considered the authority on the Queen's English, and you my dear sir, with your limited vocabulary, are obviously some "commoner" yob who probably has no 'O' levels...

Who the hell do you think you are?
I am your American Lord, Master, and "Owner" . Get down on your knees and worship at my feet. And no, I am not from the Asian continent, not even close, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be offended. It's called "empathy". Look it up in the Oxford English dictionary, "muppet".

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People need to shut the hell up about these racist terms. If I want to call an oriental person "oriental", then I'll call them that. If it offends them, then boohoo. I don't give a *beep* what an Asian calls a white person. If they call me a "pale ghost", I don't give a flying *beep*. It's a *beep* word, people. It doesn't matter what word you use, it matters how you use it.

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I have ALWAYS found Asian men sexy -- and there are so many good looking ones that I never understood why they weren't in more Western movies. Maybe Lust, Caution is the answer. Why do they need to be in Western movies -- their own movies are plenty good. I've never seen a sex scene in a movie as good as the ones in Lust Caution -- Ang Lee can teach Westerners a great deal.

And yes, The Lover was also outstanding. And John Lone in The Last Emporer. And if you haven't seen Curse of the Golden Flower, please do. One of the best I've seen this year.

There . . . I've had my say.

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I don't know if no one's mentioned it yet, but there is a world of difference between men born and raised in Asia and men of Asian heritage born in the West. Full disclosure: I am a white American woman married to a Chinese-American man. The "-American" is very important. I lived in Taiwan for a while and I can tell you that my husband is very American...his physique, his worldview, his wardrobe. Naturally, I find my husband incredibly sexy. I was never closed off to the idea of dating interracially prior to meeting my husband; in fact, my first boyfriend was of Chilean mestizo extraction (i.e. not all-European blood). However, I know now that while I would be open to dating any Asian-American (or other Westernized Asian male), I don't know that I would have had much success dating Asia-born-and-raised-men. The mindset is very different--Asian attitudes toward sex are not at all like the infantilized, absurd attitudes to sexuality many Americans have. So I guess my answer is complicated...I find many Asian actors very sexually attractive indeed (Tony Leung chief among them, along with Takeshi Kaneshiro, Andy Lau, Archie Kao (an American) and a few others). The problem is this: Americans and by extension, the American film industry equate Asian-bred males with American (or otherwise Western-bred) males of Asian extraction. I think if you want to boost Western perceptions of Asian men as "sexy" you need to put Asian-American actors in roles that were not necessarily designated as an "Asian" role (i.e. a role originally written for a white guy, but given to an Asian-American actor) and with NOTHING changed...like, his girlfriend is still a blond, etc etc and that the story makes NO COMMENT on it...that it is treated as "natural" that an Asian male would have a white (or other non-Asian) girlfriend (and indeed, it is growing more common...my husband and I are not the only AM/WF couple we know by any means). Have Hollywood do that and I think the Asian male sex appeal will grow. In the meantime, the only Asian men that most Americans see in movies are guys like Jackie Chan, Chow Yun Fat, Jet Li, etc who are martial artists, etc and have accents and are "foreign" in a way that is a little too foreign (i.e. French accents are "sexy"...Chinese accents? Not so much). These actors star in films made from an Asian perspective where sex is not the all-consuming, very nearly puerile obsession as it is here in the States.

All this is to say that in the Asian male sex appeal sweepstakes, Western-born-and-bred Asian males are getting the short end of the stick. Because they share some basic racial similarities, it is assumed that they have the same attitudes and cultural points of reference as Asian-born-and-bred males and that just ain't so. Like all American men, Asian-American men (and I focus on Americans because, well, I am American and so is my hubby) are raised to believe that, *as American men* they are entitled to free, easy, and casual sex with women (usually white women) only to discover upon entering the dating scene that no, they are lumped with what my husband calls the "F.O.B.s" (i.e. 'fresh off the boat" = foreign-born) and it is assumed that they are nerdy, asexual (as Asians often erroneously appear to Americans who like their sexuality obvious and cartoonish) and not likely to be good at sex. So they are cut out of dating the white girls and other non-Asian girls. Well, you might say, that's not so bad. They can always date Asian-American girls, right? Well, no! Because THOSE girls are often dating WHITE GUYS! No wonder Asian-American males are bitter! I don't know how it is for Asian-heritage males born and raised in other Western countries (England, France, Germany, etc, etc) but I can only imagine it has massive problems as well.

Here's to hoping things change for the better. (I say this also because I am pregnant with a little boy whom I hope will have a satisfying and well-adjusted social life someday that will include dating nice girls of any stripe...).

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You make excellent points Katie. I do find a certain sex appeal in Asian American men that I hadn't noticed in native Asian men, but that's only because I hadn't been introduced to them in sexual roles in media. Tony Leung has changed that forever.

Straight Asian males will be getting more sex thanks to Leung and Lee! ;o)

Pasolini's MAMMA ROMA is my favorite film!

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Mammaroma -- I hope you will rent The Lover (early 90's) and see the "other" Tony Leung (Tony Leung ka Fai)- and Jane March!!! Another good one. And how can I forget Ken Watanabi in The Last Samurai. hubba hubba I've been very surprised that the young actor who played his archer son didn't make it really big in the US with teenage girl fans. He was every bit as appealing (maybe more so) as Orlando Bloom was in Lord of the rings. Maybe soon.

Katie - excellent summation above.

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Thanks rlmccoy for bringing this thread back to topic. Yes, I must check out THE LOVER.

I also find John Cho attractive. Currently he's on UGLY BEATTY and he was in AMERICAN PIE and played a horny teenager just like the others.

Pasolini's MAMMA ROMA is my favorite film!

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i sincerely doubt that your little boy will have any problem with the girls. haven't you noticed that halfies are always gorgeously, genetically blessed? :D


and mmm. agree with the takeshi kaneshiro. also liu xiang, the chinese 2004 olympic gold medal-winning, record-breaking hurdler. :D

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That halfies thing is the biggest myth ever. Many times halfies turn out looking a lot like one or the other so that you wouldn't even pin them on the street as being eurasian. And if they did look mixed but weren't attractive, you wouldn't particularly notice them either. Generally people notice attractive people as standouts in groups. When was the last time anyone said, "Hey, I saw this remarkably average looking person today" of any ethnicity? What happens with mixed attractive people is they're noticed first for being attractive and then when our brains can't immediately group them in predetermined socialized categories, we wonder what their background is, and then find out. So while maybe every mixed person you've come accross or noticed might be attractive, there are far more you've seen and haven't noticed at all. Few people would consider Rob Schneider particularly physically attractive but he's part Asian and when you look at him, you can see it but before you know that, he looks like just another Jewish comedian.

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Yeah Rob Schneider is not cute!



Pasolini's MAMMA ROMA is my favorite film!

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Awesome, it's always cool when a woman is able to empathize with what us Asian American guys go through. Back in college, I gave a speech on this for a class and covered the same points you did. Asian Americans are gender stratified. Asian women get jocked like crazy here in the US while Asian guys have a poor self-image because we get emasculated and socially stereotyped. Ultimately though sexuality and attraction are subjective so if you know how to talk and connect with women, it doesn't matter where you're from.

I gotta point out that in Europe though, Asian guys don't have to deal with this crap. The emasculated nerdy Asian guy stereotype doesn't even exist over there.

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Asian females don't have it that much better either. Who wants to be seen as either a mindless virgin doll or a dragon lady? That's why Asian lesbians found themselves hard to be accepted.

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that's not quite how it works, it's pretty obvious that there are cultural and language differences between foreign and american/western asian men, not everyone's that stupid. especially if the asian american is above average in terms of looks and masculinity, he will no doubt be able to attract girls of any race, moreso than most non-asian men. this is especially true when it comes to asian american girls, as the most attractive asian females always tend to go for their own race. so don't assume that being of asian ancestry will automatically make them bitter, as some of them cam actually be superior to most men in america.

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For me an Asian male stereotype is usually shirtless, well-chiselled, and shouts AIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHH all the time

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To sridharisreddy, thanks for your wonderful post and in depth analysis on this subject. IMO, yours is the most interesting in this whole thread. Yes, I also found many South Asian men sexy and good looking (sorry, often time I can't tell if they are Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi). Unfortunately, I think there's a drastic difference in western media in terms of sex appeal between East Asian men and South Asian/Middle East men. It seems the media in the West almost never consider any man from the Far East (sorry for this colonial term) is anything remotely sexy. If you go to any bookstore or newsstand and browse all the men's magazines, you almost never see any East Asian male model in any advertisement, yet East Asian female model is almost a guarantee in just about every fashion related advertisement.

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That's really interesting that he experienced that - it seems odd that there was an issue with being that impeccable ;) And really, he is.

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I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but I don't think this would do anything to raise the profile of Asian men sexually, as he was seen pushing her around and even raping her at the beginning of the movie. I don't think that's the image asian men would want for themselves.

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